Motor flush

[Hook#3287]

I'm looking for suggestions of product and procedure of flushing the motor of my NTM Standard.

I did a valve adjustment today and the residue in the internals is a little more than I'm accustomed to.

Black, thick and smelly.

She's got 94K on her and the only history I have is that the last owner/rider was strapped for cash, so I'm thinking oil changes probably weren't on his "Must Do List".

It cleans up easily, so I think a flush would be of help.

Any suggestions?

[Firefighter]

I would change the oil and ride, you can check again and see what residue is left and change oil again if needed. I would worry more about stopping up the pump intake or maybe something else with any kind of flushing.  2 cents at most.

[gordonv]

Isn't Marvels Mystery Oil something you would use for that?

I think I recall the suggestion from my mechanic Brother, about flushing the engine with kerosene. Remove about a quart, top up, run for a very short time, and drain.

But with our bikes, I would just change the oil, and then again in another 2K miles, and again. New filters of course.

[mark81]

don't flush unless you are cleaning out the engine for disassembly and rebuild. change the oil run it a few thousand miles in a month and change again. repeat process until smile goes away then sell bike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm looking for suggestions of product and procedure of flushing the motor of my NTM Standard.

I did a valve adjustment today and the residue in the internals is a little more than I'm accustomed to.

Black, thick and smelly.

She's got 94K on her and the only history I have is that the last owner/rider was strapped for cash, so I'm thinking oil changes probably weren't on his "Must Do List".

It cleans up easily, so I think a flush would be of help.

Any suggestions?

I've never flushed a motor before, so I'm no help to you. I'm curious about a couple things though. How far off were the valves ? Is it possible to remove the oil pan and manually clean what you can with spray carb cleaner ?

[Hook#3287]

I would change the oil and ride, you can check again and see what residue is left and change oil again if needed. I would worry more about stopping up the pump intake or maybe something else with any kind of flushing.  2 cents at most.

Thanks Firefighter, I'll take your advise as a "Don't do it".

Isn't Marvels Mystery Oil something you would use for that?

I think I recall the suggestion from my mechanic Brother, about flushing the engine with kerosene. Remove about a quart, top up, run for a very short time, and drain.

But with our bikes, I would just change the oil, and then again in another 2K miles, and again. New filters of course.

Thanks Gordon, If I do any flushing, I'll use the Marvels Mystery Oil and think on the kerosene.

don't flush unless you are cleaning out the engine for disassembly and rebuild. change the oil run it a few thousand miles in a month and change again. repeat process until smile goes away then sell bike

   HaHa, Mark, I'll take your suggestion as a "DON'T DO IT", but whatever I do, I ain't selling her.

I'm looking for suggestions of product and procedure of flushing the motor of my NTM Standard.

I did a valve adjustment today and the residue in the internals is a little more than I'm accustomed to.

Black, thick and smelly.

She's got 94K on her and the only history I have is that the last owner/rider was strapped for cash, so I'm thinking oil changes probably weren't on his "Must Do List".

It cleans up easily, so I think a flush would be of help.

Any suggestions?

I've never flushed a motor before, so I'm no help to you. I'm curious about a couple things though. How far off were the valves ? Is it possible to remove the oil pan and manually clean what you can with spray carb cleaner ?

  Valves were good, about 8 out of 12 needed just a slight adjustment, they were just a little loose.  I'm able to clean the valve area and the covers easily.  I like the "Do some low mileage oil changes" suggestions and I'll add some M.M.oil. to the mix.  It doesn't scare me.  Look, DDT has over 500K, so I'm thinking this one will last long enough. 
 

[The emperor has no clothes]

That sounds good Bill. If the valves weren't that far off, I wouldn't think you'd have any undue wear.

don't flush unless you are cleaning out the engine for disassembly and rebuild. change the oil run it a few thousand miles in a month and change again. repeat process until smile goes away then sell bike

Bill doesn't sell bikes, he buys bikes.

[98valk]

just run any top tier Diesel oil. All have high detergency. An oil with a high boron level would be even greater to use. Boron is the latest high tech detergent and anti-wear agent. Last time I checked Chevon Delo had the highest level.

A flush can cause more problems than u want esp due to the wet clutch.
a slow clean is the way to go.
also check out https://www.auto-rx.com/ which is designed for a slow safe clean.

[Hook#3287]

just run any top tier Diesel oil. All have high detergency. An oil with a high boron level would be even greater to use. Boron is the latest high tech detergent and anti-wear agent. Last time I checked Chevon Delo had the highest level.

A flush can cause more problems than u want esp due to the wet clutch.
a slow clean is the way to go.
also check out https://www.auto-rx.com/ which is designed for a slow safe clean.

thanks for the good info 98Valk.

[Ramie]

Seafoam
https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gas-and-diesel-crankcase-oil/

[Hook#3287]

Seafoam
https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gas-and-diesel-crankcase-oil/

Thanks Ramie,  I might even have some Seafoam around.

[hubcapsc]

don't flush unless you are cleaning out the engine for disassembly and rebuild. change the oil run it a few thousand miles in a month and change again. repeat process until smile goes away then sell bike

If your smile goes away, there's something wrong with the bike that
needs fixed before you sell it!

-Mike

[h13man]

I always ran 20% transmission fluid in my 71' Nova for keeping the insides clean. The car always had Q State all its life thus the T fluid as an additive or it can be used as a flush component before oil change. It's safe and a good cleaner. Its a old street racer formula.

[vanagon40]

don't flush unless you are cleaning out the engine for disassembly and rebuild. change the oil run it a few thousand miles in a month and change again. repeat process until smile goes away then sell bike

If your smile goes away, there's something wrong with the bike that
needs fixed before you sell it!

-Mike

I think the advice is spot on, read literally.

[clanky]

Years ago I used Rislone oil treatment to clean up a gunked up engine in my car.  Worked well.  When you change the oil put in one quart of the Rislone.  Put a thousand or so miles on the bike and change the oil and filter.  Check the dip stick again about 500 miles later and see what the oil looks like.  Repeat if necessary.  The Rislone did the job!, but if the engine isn't too gunked up, I am in agreement with those who suggest a couple oil changes within a couple thousand miles.  That should clean it up fairly well.  Most motor oils have some form of "detergent" in them so running a couple oil changes through ought to help out considerably.  My 2 /12 cents worth.

[Harryc]

Man with a wet clutch you'd better be careful with additives on these bikes. You may ruin your clutch. I wouldn't do it.

[Hook#3287]

I think I'll do some regular dino oil with seafoam added, run it 500 - 1000 miles, change it, repeat.

I picked up some cheap walmart filters to use during this clean up.

[98valk]

I think I'll do some regular dino oil with seafoam added, run it 500 - 1000 miles, change it, repeat.

I picked up some cheap walmart filters to use during this clean up.

why would u use seafoam whose ingredients are Pale oil 20/20 (lubricant), Naptha (solvent), and isopropynol (drying agent)-
none of which will protect camshaft bearings or else the oil manufacturers would be using them, they don't!
a good Group IV or Group V engine oil (amsoil or redline) will clean out all of the sludge. their base stocks clean, same as auto-rx. The best and cheapest route is the diesel oils like I stated.  Avoid seafoam, trying to go cheap will ruin your engine bearings.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/consolidated%20HDEO%202015.html see boron levels.
and scroll down to some latest test results
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

your bike/engine u can do what u want.

[Hooter]

Careful what you use. Doing this wrong can cause your bike to become an oil burner or even plug up the oil pump if there is a bunch of gunk. Keep in mind (and you know) these wet clutches don't like certain additives.

Run some Rotella "T" about 1000 miles and change it. Repeat, and this should clean things up. I run Rotella an my valve train is perfectly clean. Don't do what some do and just change the oil. Change the filter to.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think I'll do some regular dino oil with seafoam added, run it 500 - 1000 miles, change it, repeat.

I picked up some cheap walmart filters to use during this clean up.

why would u use seafoam whose ingredients are Pale oil 20/20 (lubricant), Naptha (solvent), and isopropynol (drying agent)-
none of which will protect camshaft bearings or else the oil manufacturers would be using them, they don't!
a good Group IV or Group V engine oil (amsoil or redline) will clean out all of the sludge. their base stocks clean, same as auto-rx. The best and cheapest route is the diesel oils like I stated.  Avoid seafoam, trying to go cheap will ruin your engine bearings.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/consolidated%20HDEO%202015.html see boron levels.
and scroll down to some latest test results
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

your bike/engine u can do what u want.

As much as I disagree with CA on politics, I respect his knowledge on these engines. Sounds like the best option to me. 

[Lyle Laun]

I turned my old GL1200 in to an oil burner by running oil cleaner additives through it. My advice would be Shell Rotella

Lyle

[gordonv]

Careful what you use. Doing this wrong can cause your bike to become an oil burner or even plug up the oil pump if there is a bunch of gunk. Keep in mind (and you know) these wet clutches don't like certain additives.

Run some Rotella "T" about 1000 miles and change it. Repeat, and this should clean things up. I run Rotella an my valve train is perfectly clean. Don't do what some do and just change the oil. Change the filter to.

Rotella can be bought from Walmart for about $20 a Gal.

[Hook#3287]

I think I'll do some regular dino oil with seafoam added, run it 500 - 1000 miles, change it, repeat.

I picked up some cheap walmart filters to use during this clean up.

why would u use seafoam whose ingredients are Pale oil 20/20 (lubricant), Naptha (solvent), and isopropynol (drying agent)-
none of which will protect camshaft bearings or else the oil manufacturers would be using them, they don't!
a good Group IV or Group V engine oil (amsoil or redline) will clean out all of the sludge. their base stocks clean, same as auto-rx. The best and cheapest route is the diesel oils like I stated.  Avoid seafoam, trying to go cheap will ruin your engine bearings.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/consolidated%20HDEO%202015.html see boron levels.
and scroll down to some latest test results
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

your bike/engine u can do what u want.

Ok, so you're saying seafoam, a advertized motor treatment will harm my engine?  I'm not doubting you and I'm not trying to go cheap either.  I have several cases of Rotella in my garage.  I use it in all my diesels.

My thinking was the seafoam would break down the sludge & build up and the oil was only a vessel.  Do that a couple of times, then put the good oil and filter in.

I'm just looking for the best way to get it cleaned out and if doing a couple extra oil (& filter) changes is going to do it, great.  I have no relationship with seafoam to maintain.

The graph you posted shows Chevron Delo as having more Boron than all the rest together, so I'll hunt some down.

Would you advise using the Auto-RX with the Chevron Delo in the first 1000 mile clean, or wait and add it when I go back to the normal 3k-5k change?

I'm using cheap filters because I don't see any filter failing in 500 - 1000 miles and it's seems many people use the Walmart filters all the time.

Thanks for your info.

[Valker]

I think I'll do some regular dino oil with seafoam added, run it 500 - 1000 miles, change it, repeat.

I picked up some cheap walmart filters to use during this clean up.

why would u use seafoam whose ingredients are Pale oil 20/20 (lubricant), Naptha (solvent), and isopropynol (drying agent)-
none of which will protect camshaft bearings or else the oil manufacturers would be using them, they don't!
a good Group IV or Group V engine oil (amsoil or redline) will clean out all of the sludge. their base stocks clean, same as auto-rx. The best and cheapest route is the diesel oils like I stated.  Avoid seafoam, trying to go cheap will ruin your engine bearings.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/consolidated%20HDEO%202015.html see boron levels.
and scroll down to some latest test results
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

your bike/engine u can do what u want.

Ok, so you're saying seafoam, a advertized motor treatment will harm my engine?  I'm not doubting you and I'm not trying to go cheap either.  I have several cases of Rotella in my garage.  I use it in all my diesels.

My thinking was the seafoam would break down the sludge & build up and the oil was only a vessel.  Do that a couple of times, then put the good oil and filter in.

I'm just looking for the best way to get it cleaned out and if doing a couple extra oil (& filter) changes is going to do it, great.  I have no relationship with seafoam to maintain.

The graph you posted shows Chevron Delo as having more Boron than all the rest together, so I'll hunt some down.

Would you advise using the Auto-RX with the Chevron Delo in the first 1000 mile clean, or wait and add it when I go back to the normal 3k-5k change?

I'm using cheap filters because I don't see any filter failing in 500 - 1000 miles and it's seems many people use the Walmart filters all the time.

Thanks for your info.

The engine isn't the issue, the wet clutch is what needs the cautions.

[98valk]

I think I'll do some regular dino oil with seafoam added, run it 500 - 1000 miles, change it, repeat.

I picked up some cheap walmart filters to use during this clean up.

why would u use seafoam whose ingredients are Pale oil 20/20 (lubricant), Naptha (solvent), and isopropynol (drying agent)-
none of which will protect camshaft bearings or else the oil manufacturers would be using them, they don't!
a good Group IV or Group V engine oil (amsoil or redline) will clean out all of the sludge. their base stocks clean, same as auto-rx. The best and cheapest route is the diesel oils like I stated.  Avoid seafoam, trying to go cheap will ruin your engine bearings.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/consolidated%20HDEO%202015.html see boron levels.
and scroll down to some latest test results
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

your bike/engine u can do what u want.

Ok, so you're saying seafoam, a advertized motor treatment will harm my engine?  I'm not doubting you and I'm not trying to go cheap either.  I have several cases of Rotella in my garage.  I use it in all my diesels.

My thinking was the seafoam would break down the sludge & build up and the oil was only a vessel.  Do that a couple of times, then put the good oil and filter in.

I'm just looking for the best way to get it cleaned out and if doing a couple extra oil (& filter) changes is going to do it, great.  I have no relationship with seafoam to maintain.

The graph you posted shows Chevron Delo as having more Boron than all the rest together, so I'll hunt some down.

Would you advise using the Auto-RX with the Chevron Delo in the first 1000 mile clean, or wait and add it when I go back to the normal 3k-5k change?

I'm using cheap filters because I don't see any filter failing in 500 - 1000 miles and it's seems many people use the Walmart filters all the time.

Thanks for your info.

if u are going to use the auto-rx search their site for instructions. Delo is a group III oil and I tend to remember it should not be used with it. Supertech 15w40 would be good to use with the auto-rx. u can also search www.bobistheoilguy.com about auto-rx. supertech is a very good oil with great used oil analysis.
auto-rx is $$$. I would just use the Delo, change the filter every 1-2k miles top up with more oil and complete change 5-6k, then repeat. see if u can find a recent oil analysis of delo, they always change formulations every yr. last I checked the still had boron just not as much. All diesel oils have a high level of detergents, so any will work, boron is just suppose to be the latest and greatest.

[Hook#3287]

if u are going to use the auto-rx search their site for instructions. Delo is a group III oil and I tend to remember it should not be used with it. Supertech 15w40 would be good to use with the auto-rx. u can also search www.bobistheoilguy.com about auto-rx. supertech is a very good oil with great used oil analysis.
auto-rx is $$$. I would just use the Delo, change the filter every 1-2k miles top up with more oil and complete change 5-6k, then repeat. see if u can find a recent oil analysis of delo, they always change formulations every yr. last I checked the still had boron just not as much. All diesel oils have a high level of detergents, so any will work, boron is just suppose to be the latest and greatest.

Thanks 98valk(aka ca) for taking time to straighten me out.

Basically, all I need to do is change my oil to Delo and ride her.  Swap the filter once and a while.

I can do that, only question is when?

Thanks everyone for helping me find my way.

As always, this site rocks

[Ramie]

I know for a fact that seafoam works wonders with wet clutch systems.  My brother in-law changed oil in his Rincon ATV and used regular Valvoline and of course the clutch started slipping.  He tried numerous oil changes and it still slipped.  I had him try seafoam and it took care of the slipping problem after the first treatment.

[98valk]

if u are going to use the auto-rx search their site for instructions. Delo is a group III oil and I tend to remember it should not be used with it. Supertech 15w40 would be good to use with the auto-rx. u can also search www.bobistheoilguy.com about auto-rx. supertech is a very good oil with great used oil analysis.
auto-rx is $$$. I would just use the Delo, change the filter every 1-2k miles top up with more oil and complete change 5-6k, then repeat. see if u can find a recent oil analysis of delo, they always change formulations every yr. last I checked the still had boron just not as much. All diesel oils have a high level of detergents, so any will work, boron is just suppose to be the latest and greatest.

Thanks 98valk(aka ca) for taking time to straighten me out.

Basically, all I need to do is change my oil to Delo and ride her.  Swap the filter once and a while.

I can do that, only question is when?

Thanks everyone for helping me find my way.

As always, this site rocks

if the new oil starts turning dark within a 500-1k miles then its doing it job,  and indicates a dirty engine. if longer then not as bad as u think. remember dark color oil only means it is doing its job, it has zero to do with engine protection. Only used oil analysis will tell u that. the bob site has m/c sections for oil analysis and a lot of info. Blackstone will send a kit for free, pay when u send it in. there is most likely some local diesel repair/parts companies near u that do it. best way to find out the condition of your engine with is questionable past.