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Author Topic: My Thoughts On Valkyrie Fairings and Windshields - Continuing The Adventure  (Read 5770 times)
Bill Havins
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A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« on: January 15, 2017, 04:19:43 PM »

(I don't mean to "steal the thunder" of other threads on the forum that discuss windshield issues.  I simply want to follow up on earlier threads I have posted.)

In another thread I said I am going to build a touring fairing for my 2014 Valkyrie.  I also noted that, in my opinion, it is necessary to reduce the size of the radiator cowls to get a fairing to work on this bike.  I have begun the process in earnest and thought I’d share my progress with those who are interested.  In this post I’ll “set the stage,” sharing what caused me to arrive at the decision to “build my own.”

Let me begin by saying I don’t care for frame-mounted fairings (I’ve had Windjammers and others).  Frame-mounted fairings tend to be much heavier than handlebar-mounted fairings and, in many cases, they tend to get “stuffed” with things I just don’t want on my touring motorcycle (I’ll spare you the details).  A frame-mounted fairing and all of its accoutrements can soon add over 100 pounds to a bike.  That added weight moves the bike’s center-of-gravity higher.  It has the potential to take the fun out of an otherwise well-handling and sporty machine.

Okay, enough of that.

I’ll admit to having been spoiled by two of the finest handlebar-mounted fairing systems.  The first was on my 1979 Moto Guzzi 1000 SP.  The fairing system on that motorcycle was developed in the fabled Moto Guzzi wind tunnel at their factory in Madello del Lario, Italy.  Rumor has it that the wind tunnel has not been turned on since that fairing system was developed.  (They do continue to use the wind tunnel as a “set” when shooting promotional photographs.)

The SP fairing system includes the handlebar-mounted fairing/windscreen and a pair of “lowers” mounted about the engine cylinders.  Buried at the bottom of the fairing/windscreen is a shaped piece of reinforced rubber.  This rubber piece serves to “seal” the bottom of the fairing, directing wind down and onto the engine.

The “lowers” in this system serve to shield the rider’s legs from wind and rain.  The profile of the fairing/windshield and lowers is so effective that it can keep light-to-moderate rain off of the rider when riding at speed.  It also protects the rider from head buffeting.  This rain and head-buffeting protection extends to a passenger, although rain/head buffeting can become a bit of a problem for a passenger in heavier cross winds.

This is an image of a 1979 1000 SP excerpted from a sales brochure (the brochure can be found at www.thisoldtractor.com):



The Swanee fairing/windscreen I had on my 1998 Moto Guzzi EV convinced me that I would never have another frame-mounted fairing.  It was the second of my two favorite fairings.  This light weight unit (<10 pounds) includes “lowers” that hang down along the motorcycle’s fork legs.  They limit the amount of air that blows up under the body of the fairing.  The Swanee’s mounting hardware makes it easy to adjust the fairing/windscreen angle.  This allows the rider to “fine tune” the location of the “quiet air space” on their motorcycle.  Similar to the 1000 SP fairing system, the Swanee fairing/windscreen protects both rider and passenger from light-to-moderate rain and head buffeting when riding at speed.

If you have spent much time on motorcycle forums you immediately recognized “lowers” and “angle” issues.  How many times have you seen posts from riders wanting to reduce head buffeting caused by “stock” windscreens (“stock” windscreens don’t tend to come with lowers)?  Responses to those posts tend to include two suggestions – add lowers and change the angle.

Here is an image of the Swanee fairing/windscreen mounted on my 1998 EV.  Please pardon the bug splatters – we were on tour in New Mexico when this photo was taken.



If you look closely at the Swanee you’ll see a “vent” molded into the middle of the fairing where it meets the windscreen.  There are two other vents about 100 millimeters above the turn signals (look very closely).  These three vents are part of the Swanee’s method of creating a “quiet air space” (the need for windshield venting is discussed ad nauseum at various sites on the internet).  The lowers built into the fairing serve to “seal” the bottom; this is the other part of creating that “quiet air space.”

Now to my Valkyrie.

Soon after I bought my Honda I ordered their touring windscreen.  I also bought a pair of their “wind deflectors.”  (My dealer suggested I consider the wind deflectors since they appeared to be part of Honda’s “package” for providing wind protection.)

The end result?  The touring windscreen is a big disappointment (when installed per Honda’s instructions).  It has no angle adjustment(s) and causes severe (dangerous!) head buffeting as soon as you hit about 55 MPH.  The buffeting severely blurs vision!  At 70 MPH it was impossible to see!

And the wind deflectors?  They’re an absolute waste of time and money – they simply blow air into your armpits and onto the shoulders of your passenger.  To install the wind deflectors you have to drill holes in the radiator cowl side panels (see photo, below).  When you remove them (and you will!) you’ll either have to plug the holes in the side panels or buy new ones.  Honda obviously did not run the windshield and wind deflectors through their wind tunnel.  I really doubt they ever installed them and tried them under touring conditions – they just don’t work!



I called Honda North America and spoke to two different employees about these products.  They were quick to let me know they didn’t care that the products didn’t perform their expressed purposes.  The second employee ended the conversation by saying, “The Valkyrie is a cruiser.  It’s not meant for touring.”  Well okay, then.  I guess I mistakenly thought the touring windscreen was for touring and that the Goldwing drivetrain was a serious touring platform.  Silly me!  I just didn’t understand that cruisers weren’t to be used for touring.

After my conversations with Honda NA I went and visited with my Honda dealer.  He encouraged me to order and try any solution I wanted; he would return what didn’t work.  Needless to say my dealer and I respect each other a great deal.  He wanted me happy with the Valkyrie.

Thus began a long period of “windshield trial-and-error.”  Nothing fit/worked.  I then took a used Goldwing windshield and cut it to fit the Valkyrie (see issues, below).  I still experienced head buffeting but my vision didn’t blur – the buffeting was “a nuisance.”  The trimmed Goldwing windshield was “good enough” for us to do our 2016 Fall Tour of New Mexico.

During my “windshield trial-and-error” period I began to collect data about air flow around the windshield and the other body parts on the Valkyrie (I’m a scientist-practitioner so I really like data).  The results of my study revealed that wind “swirls” about any windshield mounted to the Valkyrie’s handlebars; the pattern of the swirling changes with road speed.  The “culprits” contributing to the swirling proved to be the radiator cowls, the headlight nacelle, the plastic parts at the tops of the forks, and the lack of a wind block or “seal” at or about the steering stem (i.e., the triple clamps on the forks).

Here are some specifics.

Regarding the radiator cowls – these pieces appear to have been designed more for “form” than “function.”  When you remove the cowls from the bike you quickly realize they take up a lot more room than they need to; there’s lots of empty space at the top and front ends of the cowls.  I believe this was done to achieve two design goals – a shape that “rounds down” from the edge of the fuel tank to the top of the radiator (see red arrow in photo, below), and a shape that extends the line defined by the shape of the headlight lens (see yellow line in photo).



The shapes of the cowls severely limit the effectiveness of any windshield on a Valkyrie.  To clear the tops of the cowls when the steering head is turned lock-to-lock, either the bottom edge of the windshield has to be raised significantly, or the bottom corners of the windshield have to be beveled up at a pronounced angle.  Either arrangement allows for unmanaged airflow around the bottom of the windshield.  This contributes to head buffeting.

The shapes of the cowls also limit the potential to mount “lowers” from near the bottom of a windshield.  When the front wheel is pointed straight ahead the front edges of the cowls extend well past the fronts of the fork legs (see the above photo).  Wide lowers simply will not fit on the fork legs with the cowls extending that far forward.  Even if they could be mounted, wide lowers would immediately run into the cowls if the forks were turned.  So, in my opinion, the size and shape of the radiator cowls is a problem.

If you look closely at the headlight nacelle on a Valkyrie you quickly discover “screens” on both the left and right sides.  These screens allow air to blow across the heatsink mounted on the back of the LED headlight.  Without this airflow the headlight might overheat and be destroyed.  But, this airflow is not managed (directed) after it cools the headlight.  This lack of management allows this airflow to contribute to head buffeting.

The headlight nacelle contributes to difficulty mounting lowers from a windshield on the Valkyrie; the nacelle is so big it gets in the way.  The other plastic parts at the tops of the fork legs add to this problem.  The nacelle and other plastic parts restrict the width of the spaces between the fork legs and radiator air intakes to approximately 50 millimeters or so.  And the plastic parts at the tops of the forks limit access to the fork tubes – a prime location for attaching lowers mounting hardware.

The three “culprits” discussed above are highlighted in the following photo.  Radiator cowl issues are marked with yellow arrows on the left side, and headlight nacelle and plastic parts issues are identified with the red arrow on the right.  When you look at the image notice the small gaps between the radiator air intakes and the plastic parts at the tops of the forks; either of these gaps is made smaller when the front wheel is turned in that direction.



The last of the “culprits” listed above is the lack of a “seal” that limits airflow from under the bottom of a windshield or fairing.  Similar to the above, the shapes of the radiator cowls, the headlight nacelle, and the plastic parts at the top of the fork legs make attachment of an effective seal difficult.

It has been my experience that an adequate “seal” at the bottom of a fairing may eliminate the need for traditional lowers.  This is especially true if there is a fairing element similar to the lowers included in the Moto Guzzi 1000 SP system.

So, what am I going to do about all of this?  First I’m going to build smaller radiator cowls that limit interference with possible fairing/windscreen function and design.  My goal is to develop a pleasing shape that removes the extra space at the top and front of the cowls.  I will also incorporate a simple flair at the rear of the cowls; this will emulate the flair of the Moto Guzzi 1000 SP lowers.

Once the cowls are modified, I will remove the headlight nacelle and plastic parts at the tops of my fork legs.  I will then develop a vented fairing design that provides excellent rider protection and a “seal” at the bottom.  This fairing design will incorporate a headlight nacelle that solves those nacelle problems noted above.

As I do these things I will continue to incorporate surfaces that direct air flow into the radiators.  I believe that approaching design and development in this manner will eliminate the need for “traditional” lowers while significantly limiting head buffeting.

I will document my progress as time allows.

Cheers!

Bill

« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 04:33:26 PM by Bill Havins » Logged

"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
_Sheffjs_
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Jerry & Sherry Sheffer

Sarasota FL


« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 04:39:36 PM »

Bill,  wow! And  cooldude 

Fully agree that the cowl or sail panels are a huge cause of the buffeting.  I have pulled up my chair and you have my attention and eager for the follow up.  Good luck. 

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bscrive
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Ottawa, Ontario


« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 05:36:44 PM »

That is excellent insight Bill.

I would be very interested in your final results.   cooldude cooldude
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sleepngbear
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RI


« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 07:01:54 PM »

Well, sounds like you're serious about this stuff!  Grin

The only thing I'd caution you on, and you're probably already aware, is that part of the function of the radiator cowls is to draw hot air away from the rider. Whatever your new design is, be sure it doesn't mess with that and leave you sitting in a convection oven. It's a common complaint with some bikes that otherwise offer very good protection from the elements, like the ST1300. You wouldn't want to be swapping one annoyance for another.

Other than that I'm very curious to see and hear what you're able to experiment with and learn from it. Good luck!!
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dinosnake
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 08:24:06 PM »

I would say not to modify the bike until you try more windshields.  I frequently mention that I'm very happy with my Gustafsson, no buffeting at all.

For example, back on my Meanie I added a Memphis Shades Del Ray.  First ride out...holy cr@p did I get buffeting!  I thought I would either go deaf or have my head ripped clean off!

I was a bit besides myself.  But then I stumbled upon the answer, and it seems counter-intuative but in your thought process: I added lowers,

Surprise!  Butter smooth sailing.  Following week I rode 5,200 miles cross country and didn't have one little bit of trouble nor turbulence.

The Gustafsson windshields get very close to the headlight assembly and have 'nubs' that drop down and match the shape of the housing.  Works great.  If you get buffeting up from the triple clamp area have you tried blocking that area off with, for example, a fabric "plug" that essentially closes off that area from the wind?  A heck of a lot easier than modifying the pods.

So try things before you take out that hacksaw!
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Moofner
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Colorado Springs, CO


« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 08:39:03 PM »

Oh man. You are seriously going to get my brain moving. I'm on my tablet right now so I won't go into massive details as typing is monotonous. Your areas of molding for form are dead on, but the proposed shape you want will require a new system to secure a fairing/pod with less real estate. The reason why a traditional Goldwing and F6B can support an effective screen is the structural load is shared by left and right sides.

A full fork mounted system will require emphasis on the forks and bars first. The radiator pods should come second.
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Bill Havins
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Posts: 413


A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 05:56:23 AM »

....So try things before you take out that hacksaw!

Dinosnake - no OEM parts will be harmed in this process (is there a motorcycling group like the ASPCA?  Oh, never mind...).  I'll be fabricating new parts from scratch.  It's a bit fiddly, but it's what I want to do on my scooter.

....A full fork mounted system will require emphasis on the forks and bars first. The radiator pods should come second.

Moofner - I've taken my Valkyrie apart "from stem-to-stern" evaluating what needs to be done to create what I want.  My conclusion is the radiator cowls get in the way of anything I want to do - I'm going to see if I can reduce their size.  Maybe I can, or maybe not.

When I first looked at the Swanee on my '98 EV I was most "unimpressed."  It seemed way too flimsy to me (1/8" ABS with a 3/16" polycarbonate windshield).  The thing weighed less than 10 pounds!  It attached to the bike at four points - a clamp on either side of the handlebars and a 1/4" bolt on either side of the lower triple clamp.  I'm planning on a similar attachment method for what I put on my Valkyrie.

So, yes, I will pay attention to the forks.  But I have to get the radiator cowls out of the way if I want to be able to turn the handlebars (and fairing/windshield) lock-to-lock.

By the way, I have this windshield sitting by my desk:  http://www.nationalcycle.com/n20018.html.  I will have to modify the bottom to make it clear the headlight nacelle in my fairing design.  But, otherwise, it looks to be a workable solution for the "upper half of things."

Here's hoping!

Bill
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 06:29:42 AM by Bill Havins » Logged

"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
Kidd
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Sedona


« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 07:37:59 AM »

Some folks like long drawn out complicated projects  , because they are trained to understand them .

As for me , I'd go buy a F6B  and be done with it , get back to riding and enjoying the freedom

I'd  be easier to augment the F6B  than the F6C
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bscrive
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Out with the old...in with the wooohoooo!!!!

Ottawa, Ontario


« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 12:00:42 PM »

Some folks like long drawn out complicated projects  , because they are trained to understand them .

As for me , I'd go buy a F6B  and be done with it , get back to riding and enjoying the freedom

I'd  be easier to augment the F6B  than the F6C

Where is the fun in that Kidd?  You would have a generic F6B instead of an unique F6C.  cooldude

Also, some of us cannot ride year round.  We need something motorcycle related to do in the down times.  Cheesy

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Verismo
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 04:22:33 PM »

What a cool project!  I have no experience fabricating the kind of parts required for a job like this, but I'm super interested in how you'll do it.  3d printer?  Some sort of fiberglass molding?  Looking forward to reading about it.  I solved my own buffeting problem with custom brackets that raise the height of the stock windshield and increase the lean angle, allowing air under the shield.  But I'm still very excited to see someone making a fairing for this bike.  Also, thank you for posting about Honda's lowers. I was curious about those when I first saw them.  Good luck on the project!
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Jambriwal
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 12:34:21 PM »

Bill, an excellent post. I have also looked at many of those same areas on my 2014 Valkyrie concerning airflow. My past experience was with Harley's. My 2002 Electra glide had 3 different fairings and 2013 Switchback i modified a Shovelhead Batwing Fairing. After the 2002 i discovered that i enjoy riding behind a window or fairing if the airflow is controlled properly. A lot less tiring and you arrive at your destination relaxed.

On the Valkyrie i ordered the Touring windshield and noticed the horrible positioning and that it looked like an afterthought to an otherwise great looking motorcycle. I added 1 1/2 " chain links to the bottom brackets to get the Windshield to match the angle of the front forks. Now it sat to high, so after many careful measurements i re drilled the holes lowering it till where my fingers would fit between it and the headlight nacelle. This seems to give it enough air flow up the inside so as not to cause buffeting. (see late model Harley's with the mail slot in the front of the fairing)
 Fortunately the height of the window worked out perfect. I can easily see over it but can hide behind it a bit if the rain gets severe. Air flow over the rider is pretty good and can hear my Blue Tooth speakers unless the wind is raging. I do miss the hand protection the Fairings provided.
One fairing that caught my interest is the one on Yamaha's 1300 touring bike. Unlike most bat wing fairings that are very vertical, it stretches the form way back and low. Might be possible to trim bottom where needed to clear radiator shrouds and the headlight opening might have to be modified. The barrier here is price. They are about $1800 from Yamaha so i keep hoping a used one will show up on E Bay. I cannot post any pic;s at this time, i guess you have to host them from another site?
I'll be very interested in following your progress and wish you success in your project.
Jim 
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Bill Havins
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A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 03:19:57 PM »

Is this the one, Jim?  My dealer may have one of these in his showroom.  I'll swing by and take a look.



Yes, I believe you have to host images elsewhere.

Bill
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"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
bscrive
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Out with the old...in with the wooohoooo!!!!

Ottawa, Ontario


« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 04:41:43 PM »

Hi guys,

I tried to put a batwing on my valk a little while back.  I ordered one and when I put it on the bike it came apparent very quickly that it wouldn't fit.  I would have had to cut out most of the bottom to fit around the headlight  that there would be no place left to hook the hardware up to.  Plus, it looked horrible on the bike.  I gave up on that project.  There is a thread on here about my adventure.
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Bill Havins
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A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 05:45:45 PM »


I can't really see a batwing on the Valkyrie, either.  But data (the "how they did it") is always good to have.

Doesn't the V-Star 1300 Deluxe have a radio or some such built into the fairing?  Maybe that's part of the price?



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"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
Robert
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S Florida


« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 06:18:26 PM »

Its an ambitious project for sure, but you seem well qualified to handle it. I would have to say though that the more I look at the bike and spend time with it I find that there are very few design changes that would improve the performance or comfort of this bike without altering its looks. I have looked to the drive train to see what to do and realized more and more like tic tack toe there are very few winning moves.

I think the airflow on this bike is pretty good for the design/look trade off. The radiator nacelles are much bigger than the radiator. But I think the design is actually pretty amazing. The radiator is recessed in the pod looking from the outside of the radiator. This allows the air that is blown in from the inside front to come out from the outside without the wind sheer stopping it. Part of this design is the front of that triangulated piece, it looks like an air foil or the leading edge of a wing. Since it works with the recessed radiator and deflects the air outward away from the bike and allows a lower air pressure on the outside face of the radiator. This low pressure zone draws the air through the radiator and moves it out far enough, coupled with the air foil at the rear of the pod to put this flow out of to the side to completely miss the driver. The fact that it is triangular in shape leading edge at the top would transition air down a bit. The air that is not is the air those little wings try to deflect.

The little air foils at that you have a pic of would more than likely be better served if made to fasten to the top of the outer radiator opening going horizontal to the ground running the length of the opening from front to rear and fastened at the rear black plastic piece just about where they are fastened. This would stop the air from rising into that area and deflect it down and out also.   

The air flow coming in the front directly straight at you has a few places to go. In this area between the radiator pods at the front of the engine and bike is an area of increased air pressure. This also helps to push the air through the radiator pods but this air also goes up over the tank, to the driver and is the air you are talking about that a seal would help. Hard to do since there is a limit to how tight you can get things to the forks and even a fairing may not do the whole job. The air from the front also goes under the tank and out sides and down from the front lower cowl and out.

If you really wanted to do something with this air flow for the driver I would think a well placed ridge of say a half an inch to a inch placed so as to drive the air down and through the radiators would work well. Also deflecting the air coming through the front fairing around the headlight down may alleviate some more driver turbulence. I dont think all air would have to be eliminated, just a good percentage to make the difference in driver comfort.

This could be done by a redesign of the front upper engine cover. If this piece was designed in shape of a v or a wedge with the base of the v pointed forward and yet angled down it may do what I described above. The existing front upper engine cover is deflecting the air upward what air does not go through the openings in it. This redesign may also allow for free movement of the front forks yet deflect a good portion of air. The front of the bike in this area is basically designed like a u shape and holds air and directs it either to the radiators or the driver and even the lower cowl has vents but is designed to hold the air in this area.

This area bike behind the forks and between the radiator pods does not lend itself to efficient air flow and the place that could be used to improve air flow around the driver. Since the front covers are flat and the radiator pods slow air flow out to the sides and every bit of front air is pretty much held in this area.

I read where you tried many windshields but I have noticed with the OEM tall windshield that if I just put my hand at the top of the windshield just below eye level it stops all the air to my head. If you couple this with the deflectors in the front engine area between the radiators and deflect the air from around the headlight down I think it would make a much different ride without going through a complete redesign.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 06:31:53 PM by Robert » Logged

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Kidd
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Sedona


« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 08:06:23 PM »

Which is why I have been stating this over and over , using one of these http://www.mra.de/en/x-creen/    eliminates much of the helmet  buffeting  , I know this as fact

The other major amount  of the turbulent  air to be reckoned with  is coming from just above the pods , I think


I read where you tried many windshields but I have noticed with the OEM tall windshield that if I just put my hand at the top of the windshield just below eye level it stops all the air to my head. 
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bscrive
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Out with the old...in with the wooohoooo!!!!

Ottawa, Ontario


« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 06:58:14 AM »

I tried a similar screen and it didn't do anything for me. 

I got it from a guy on eBay in Russia.  Really good quality and pretty cheap.  It just didn't do anything for me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/yamaha-xt1200-super-tenere-Universal-Motorcycle-Windshield-Spoiler-smoke-270-140-/142219039358?hash=item211cea527e
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Moofner
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Colorado Springs, CO


« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 07:01:33 AM »

....So try things before you take out that hacksaw!

Dinosnake - no OEM parts will be harmed in this process (is there a motorcycling group like the ASPCA?  Oh, never mind...).  I'll be fabricating new parts from scratch.  It's a bit fiddly, but it's what I want to do on my scooter.

....A full fork mounted system will require emphasis on the forks and bars first. The radiator pods should come second.

Moofner - I've taken my Valkyrie apart "from stem-to-stern" evaluating what needs to be done to create what I want.  My conclusion is the radiator cowls get in the way of anything I want to do - I'm going to see if I can reduce their size.  Maybe I can, or maybe not.

When I first looked at the Swanee on my '98 EV I was most "unimpressed."  It seemed way too flimsy to me (1/8" ABS with a 3/16" polycarbonate windshield).  The thing weighed less than 10 pounds!  It attached to the bike at four points - a clamp on either side of the handlebars and a 1/4" bolt on either side of the lower triple clamp.  I'm planning on a similar attachment method for what I put on my Valkyrie.

So, yes, I will pay attention to the forks.  But I have to get the radiator cowls out of the way if I want to be able to turn the handlebars (and fairing/windshield) lock-to-lock.

By the way, I have this windshield sitting by my desk:  http://www.nationalcycle.com/n20018.html.  I will have to modify the bottom to make it clear the headlight nacelle in my fairing design.  But, otherwise, it looks to be a workable solution for the "upper half of things."

Here's hoping!

Bill



Hey Bill, sorry it has taken me so long to reply! I read the post before edit and I, too, have taken this bike apart stem to stern. I by no means intended any offence and you clearly know what you are doing if you are machining your own parts AND fabricating molds with ABS plastics.

Now that I'm on a computer and can type easily, what I was referring to is the area needed to mount an effective lower fork/upper fairing that works would be my number one design first. Deflecting air directly into the side pods could also be taken into consideration, but too much deflection might trap air when the fans turn on at low speed, since they suck air through the radiators and blow it out the front.

The spot that immediately came to mind on what gets in the way is this:
(Please forgive the photos, they were taken during my light install project)


That front radiator hose makes it a real head scratcher on how to mount and secure any new fairing design. That thing just eats away the real estate space to install anything on the forks. I defer to your wisdom on this as you have something in mind already. I'm actually quite curious on how you plan on securing the new radiator pod designs just as much as I'm curious on your fairing design!

The way they secured all the (bulky) tupperware together was ingenious, and I can see how they used a squeezing pressure to prevent front point wobble. Every spot and bend seems to work just right. Do you plan on using any parts of the OEM design, such as the plastic facade in front of the radiator?
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2003 Valkyrie "Ricky's Bike"
2014 Valkyrie "The Gypsy Bride"

Kidd
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Posts: 1159

Sedona


« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2017, 07:18:31 AM »

I am not at all surprised as you brought back your bars, ( you now sit further back )  and your RDL lifts you up higher  means  you are in more turbulent air  because of those changes .
If you were to bend over forward while riding , most all buffeting would disappear

I do not want to hijack the thread , I am very interested in seeing what Bill comes up with , this is exciting



I tried a similar screen and it didn't do anything for me.  

I got it from a guy on eBay in Russia.  Really good quality and pretty cheap.  It just didn't do anything for me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/yamaha-xt1200-super-tenere-Universal-Motorcycle-Windshield-Spoiler-smoke-270-140-/142219039358?hash=item211cea527e
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:52:17 AM by Kidd » Logged




If I like to go fast , does that make me a racist ???
Bill Havins
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Posts: 413


A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2017, 01:41:59 PM »

Moofner, no offense taken at all.  Thanks for clarifying what you meant.  It's a chicken-or-egg proposition - which do you tackle first?  For me it's the silly radiator cowls.  After I do that it "frees up things" to allow for fairing/windshield development.

Robert, I see what you're saying.  But there is a "secret" hidden behind the outside cowls.  Here's a schematic image:



There is a vent hidden in the "Inner Cowl" (see blue arrows in image).  This vent takes in air from the same spot where air makes its way into the back side of the radiator.  The air flowing through this vent finds its way out of the "slot" in the "Side Panel" of the cowling.  Now, since this air is not obstructed by the radiator, it exits the slot in the "Side Panel" at a higher pressure than what makes it through the radiator.  When traveling at speed, this serves to force the warm air from the radiator out and away from the rider.

Back to reducing the cowls.  In the schematic view, above, the "Outer Cowl" is shown as a separate piece, and it is.  It is fastened to the Cowl Top by three Phillips Head screws and two integrated fasteners.  My plan is to "re-use" the "Outer Cowls" in my revised radiator cowl design.  All I have to develop, then, is a revised "Inner Cowl" and "Top."  Not "easy" to do, but, perhaps, worth it for where I want to take my scooter.

And, then again, I may just be nuts....

Bill
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"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
Robert
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S Florida


« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2017, 03:39:30 AM »

There is no air that comes out of that hole, in fact I was wondering why they put it there. If what you stated was the case so much air would have to come out of that hole it would completely make driving uncomfortable in the leg area and maybe the whole drivers bubble. There is a vent at the top of the side panel that does vent air onto the drivers knee area, but that is about it. This air is taken from the front goes next to the tank and exists the top vent, its a pretty straight path. Like I said its pretty hard to improve on this bike.

In the pic of the outer cowl did you notice the ski ramp at the trailing edge?

That trail of blue at the top of the stream is the air that blows on the drivers leg from the top of the inside panel next to the tank. If you also notice that blue air is wafting and not solid straight in the leg area as to imply eddying air and not forceful. This is what I experience when I ride my bike. Also noticeable is the S shape of the air that passes through the radiator. Fairly forceful into and out of the radiator away from the driver. I would say that the air exists the radiator and is launched away from the bike about 4 inches into the outside air stream. If you look at the pic closely you will notice that the air coming out of the radiator at some points is actually going forward, that is the vacuum or dead air space made to pull the air out, then out into the stream. 

« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:22:57 AM by Robert » Logged

“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
_Sheffjs_
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Jerry & Sherry Sheffer

Sarasota FL


« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2017, 05:08:28 AM »

I will say living here in Florida and riding in the worst heat days of summer I do not feel heat from this bike  cooldude  jump back on the 1500 and  Shocked
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Bill Havins
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A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2017, 06:27:04 AM »

....There is a vent at the top of the side panel that does vent air onto the drivers knee area....

Robert, you're right.  The air through the vent in the Inner Cowl does exit the Side Panel more through the top vent.  Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, these radiators/cowls do move heat away from the rider.  It is a real treat.  So much better than traveling West Texas in late August with your knees next to the cylinders on a Moto Guzzi.  Now that's hot!

My issue is not with how the cowls move air through the radiators and away from the rider.  My issue is the many bits of plastic on the Valkyrie make it difficult to mount a windshield/fairing.  I am exploring ways to do that.  It may be an absolute dead end, but I'll know a little more about my scooter when I'm done.  Sometimes that's enough to justify the exploration.

Bill
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"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
hungryeye
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Posts: 443


Scottsdale AZ & Climax NC, formally freehold, nj


« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 07:42:28 AM »

I would think a deflector similar to cruiser lower wind deflectors mounted to the top front of the radiator cowl might work. You would have to drill screw hole in the cowl but but you can experiment with different shapes of thinner plywood and attach  with duct tape or other method that wouldn't EF up your cowl. Then road test different shapes.

 I also got sucked into buying the $150 wind deflectors that don't work, I didn't stick the velcro spots on and found you don't need them anyway but at least I won't have to look at that mistake for ever. Honda should have designed something like those useless deflectors to mount on front of cowl.

Just my $2 worth
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2014 F6c Red ish
1983 GL650 cream puff
2010 Spyder RS

we DRIVE our cars, we RIDE our motorcycles!
Moofner
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Posts: 614


Colorado Springs, CO


« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2017, 10:01:36 AM »


[/quote]

It may be an absolute dead end, but I'll know a little more about my scooter when I'm done.  Sometimes that's enough to justify the exploration.

Bill

[/quote]

I respect and couldn't agree with that statement more! I still have a set of exhaust pipes that I want to work on. It will probably come to a dead end but where is the fun in giving up because of that?
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2003 Valkyrie "Ricky's Bike"
2014 Valkyrie "The Gypsy Bride"

hubcapsc
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Posts: 16773


upstate

South Carolina


« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2017, 10:54:05 AM »

I will say living here in Florida and riding in the worst heat days of summer I do not feel heat from this bike  cooldude  jump back on the 1500 and  Shocked

The radiators blow hot air on my legs when I'm on the highway pegs, enough
that I feel it through my Draggin Jeans...

-Mike
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st2sam
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Posts: 310


N.E. Pennsylvania


« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2017, 04:43:49 PM »

Awesome thread guys, very interesting and informative.

I don't have much to add, but I'll say this,

"Never rode a bike with better heat management than my Valk".. cooldude

"Never rode a bike with better wind management than my Valk..  (stock no faring)






« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:45:48 PM by st2sam » Logged
Robert
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Posts: 16981


S Florida


« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2017, 06:46:19 PM »

I will say living here in Florida and riding in the worst heat days of summer I do not feel heat from this bike  cooldude  jump back on the 1500 and  Shocked

Agreed  cooldude


Bill if you ride in the Texas heat you are one tough person,  Shocked even Florida heat I dont think gets that hot, my hats off to you.  Cool
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 06:49:37 PM by Robert » Logged

“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
woofred1832
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My Valkyrie

northern Ill near fox lake


« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2017, 02:28:53 PM »

               I was NOT happy with the boulavard wind screen first put on my bike, and the taller Honda shield I thought was tooooo much $. So I kept the mounts and got a base 18 inch tall shield, actually made for a Harley, and cut it down to fit on my bike. Then added side extensions to each side mid windshield. Although its not perfect, it gives me enough deflation to make it OK. Then I made my own lower deflectors and mounted the on the upper fork tubes, I dont know how much they help, but added uniqueness since I painted them RED! like other parts and side covers I also painted RED. Since the was very limited accessories made for the 2014 Valkries I also made my own rear rack, it is connected to the OEM rear back rest, and I only put it on to and extra space if needed when I take longer trips across country. So much for that, I have made other add ons for other bikes I have owned so this is nothing new for me......I take off the rear seat passenger pad and mount the viking hard trunk right behind me so I can lean on it for back support on those longer trips also. Others change seats, handlebars, and other things thats part of making our bikes to fit and be to our own wants....... RIDE ON LIFE ON THE ROAD IS GOOD!!!!!!
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BigInSeattle
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VRCC #6615

Auburn WA


« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2017, 02:26:21 PM »

This may not  be much help especially considering I don't have an 1800 (yet). But, when I had my 2000 the only windshield I was ever happy with was one of the Memphis Shades universal shields with the handlebar mount. I think I had the Hellcat or the Demon. They are nice because the stems for the shield slide in and out of the mount allowing for plenty of rake adjustability.

I'm also one of those people that rides with a full face helmet so I was just interested in keeping the wind off my chest so I wasn't hanging on for dear life all the time. I angled it so the wind was just hitting me above the shoulders and my helmet was in the clean air. It was great. If you have a higher end full face helmet you can get pretty good aerodynamics and quiet noise levels.

I'm also 6'4" so the idea of finding anything tall enough to cover my head completely was crazy. I wear glasses and I don't like looking through three pieces of plastic. Glasses, visor, windshield.


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hungryeye
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Posts: 443


Scottsdale AZ & Climax NC, formally freehold, nj


« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2017, 06:37:36 PM »

Being 6'4" doesn't mean much. Most of my adult life I was 6' with a 30" inseam. If you have a 34" inseam your torso may be same as mine or even shorter if you are 36 inseam. There are plenty of tall windscreen choices for your height. I have a tall OEM Honda windscreen and I look through it. On the other hand you may have a 32 inch inseam, that would mean you are even more awkward than I.
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2014 F6c Red ish
1983 GL650 cream puff
2010 Spyder RS

we DRIVE our cars, we RIDE our motorcycles!
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