Turn Signal Indicator Issue

[icemanisintexas]

Ok Guys here is the issue I have. I recently replaced all of the indicator bulbs on the headlight housing for the Neutral switch indicator, Turn Signal Indicator and the Hi-Beam Indicator along with the rear brake light and rear turn signals with LED'S replacements. I did not put LED's in the front turn signals.  I bought the bike used and found that the previous owner had installed the Kisan Turn Signal Minder. So Everything works great except one thing . The Single yellow turn signal indicator on the headlight housing will flash correctly when I turn on the left turn signal. However when I turn on the right signal the same LED bulb never lights up at all but the right signal front and read flash just fine. When I put the original light bulb back in (Non-LED) it flashes fine with both the right and left turn signals. So at this point I decided to buy from Custom Dynamics their LED Flasher Relay and try that. Well I had the same results with the exception that with the new flasher relay the lights blink a tad faster. No Biggie

So does anyone have any idea how I can resolve this issue? I really light the LED replacement bulbs for the Indicators as there extremely bright during the day. No more guess work trying to see them. Anyone's help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Gerry

[John U.]

I had some issues when I replaced the front turn signals with LEDs. I needed to install the diode kit also from Custom Dynamics. I still had problems so I called Custom Dynamics technical assistance. The guy I spoke with (about 5 times) really knew his stuff.
My problems were entirely different but I would suggest you contact them, since you bought some of their products, they will be happy to help you work out the problem. Get the guy's name so if his initial advice doesn't fix the problem you can speak with the same person to work on plan B.

[John U.]

By the way, let us know what the resolution turns out to be. I've been thinking of replacing my indicator lights with LEDs to get some extra brightness as well.
Good luck

[icemanisintexas]

Hey John thanks for the advice. I never really thought of calling them but I'll give them a shot tomorrow and let everyone know the results.

Thanks

Gerry

[deez]

I would say your problem might be that the light , being a diode is seeing positive input from one side ( the working side) but having bat + being applied on it's ground side when you switch to the other side (led's will only work one way) you can test this out by taking your bulb and applying power to its input side and using a jumper wire to ground it's bat- side to the headlight housing. Old incedesant bulb could care less which side is hot and which is ground. no so with led's

[icemanisintexas]

Deez I suspect this is in fact the issue. Do you know of anyway to correct  this issue?

Gerry

[deez]

One way you can verify it would be to get a led test light (got mine at Walmart in the auto supply/tool section) with the test light grounded to the headlight housing you can probe the socket going to the indicator bulb. the test light will light red if bat + is present , then place the test light clamp on a battery positve wire (even the bat + post) then touch the bulb socket again , if it is switching to ground the test light will turn green.  That is what the diode kit will do, basicly switch the polarity internally so that all the led see' is the proper voltage. I just looked at the wiring schematic and that is what is happening. the indicator bulb is wired in series with both left and right side circuits. If you cut both the orange wire and the light blue wire from the indicator socket (leaving enought wire to the connector to splice back into) you could then soldier in a simple blocking diode (radioshack item) one onto the orrange wire and one onto the lightblue wire. then soldier the two ends of the diodes onto a common output wire. this output wire would then be soldiered onto one of the pigtail wires you left on the original connector ( the orange wire) next soldier a long wire to the light blue wire on the socket (enough to loop around and reach one of the three headlight mounting bolts on the base. put a eylet on the wire and secure it under one of the bolts then plug in your led. it should work. the diodes will allow power to reach the led, but prevent it from back feeding into the opposite sides circuits. hope this is not to confusing. we wire up police and fire equipment with led's all the time and this type of circuit normally works very well. just be sure you check the direction of current flowon your diodes first before you soldier it up (easy to do with a multimeter with a diode test feature. should only cost you about2 to 4 bucks with tax and a little of your time!
good luck

[deez]

disreguard the frist part about using the test light , the rest of the explanation is correct. the first is just redundent and not needed as the schemetic verified that is what's happening

[deez]

man it's getting late and I can't type for squat!  nite all
deez-out

[icemanisintexas]

Well Deez I'm really do appreciate your effort in the explanation you gave to me. I believe I'll be paying Radio shack a visit to get the diodes and resolve this problem once and for all. I be sure to post my results after the surgery is done.

You guys on this forum are fantastic !!!!!

[icemanisintexas]

Deez,

I somewhat knowledgeable about electronics but what specific diode do I need to buy from Radio Shack? There are many different types. Do you have an Item number I can reference? Also with a multimeter can I visually look at the diode and determination the current flow direction ?

Thanks

Gerry

[deez]

 on the diodes, i don't have a part number as we buy in bulk from our supplier, but any diode rated for 12 to 24 volts and handles 8 amps or better will do. just tell the sales people the perimeters and they should be able to help you out.  on the multimeter, just take your neg and pos leads and place them on opposite ends of the diodes,  you will either show continuity or open. then switch ends. when you find continuity the pos lead will be touching the end of the diode that you will soldier to your orange or light blue wires (thats the side that will allow current to flow to your led.
hope this all helps

deez

[Rattlebars]

Don't over complicate anything here. Radio Shack diodes work fine and are super cheap. Radio Shack #276-1653 or the one shown.

Valkyrie indicator is "strange."  ORANGE wire is the LEFT signal circuit.  The BLUE wire is the RIGHT signal circuit. You'll notice that indicator has an ORANGE wire on one side and a BLUE wire on the other.  See, when a circuit is unpowered, it's low voltage even if it's a "hot" wire. Voltage flows like water - downhill from hi to lo.  The indicator works by using the LEFT ORANGE as ground when the RIGHT BLUE is hot.  The light illuminates because it's got +12v on one side (BLUE) and nothing on the other (ORANGE) so the ORANGE acts a ground.  Reverse it and it blinks the "other" way. Problem with an LED is that it's polarity sensitive and only works one way.  Won't work in a stock Valkyrie indicator light since the polarity reverses depending on which signal is hot.

Coupla circuits for you.  Very easy and less than a dollar to fix.  Personally, I use my STAND LED in the tach as a TS indicator.  You can see it in the day light and it still works as a STAND light. Click: EXTRA INDICATORS

[Robert]

I had a similar problem when I put leds in the front and rear lights and had the regular bulb in the indicator. The only difference was that the left was ok front and rear but the right would only flash the front and the indicator didn't work. Called them and they sent me a led to install on the indicator and I did that and it still didn't work properly so I use the reflection in the driving light chrome to tell if the signals are flashing. I could probably do it the right way but I really don't care. But call them they can help. Duh, Chet thanks for the idea maybe I will try that I really should have thought about that myself

[icemanisintexas]

Rattlebars in your diagram a couple replies up you indicate two different diodes Radio Shack Diode 1K 2.5A and 276-1114. Are you saying to use the 276-1114 on the Orange wire and the 1k 2.5A on the blue?  The diagram is simple enough but I'm a bit green when it comes to electronics.

[RP#62]

Rattlebars in your diagram a couple replies up you indicate two different diodes Radio Shack Diode 1K 2.5A and 276-1114. Are you saying to use the 276-1114 on the Orange wire and the 1k 2.5A on the blue?  The diagram is simple enough but I'm a bit green when it comes to electronics.

You need twe 276-1114 diodes.  276-1114 is the radio shack part number.  Its rated at 1000 PIV (peak inverse voltage) and 2.5A. 
-RP

[icemanisintexas]

Well tonight I followed instructions given to me here to a T. I bought a package of the  276-1114 diodes from Radio Shack. (I hope these are the right ones for what I using them for). I know that Deez said to use a "Blocking Diode" but RP said to use the 276-1114 diode. Are they the same? Is the 276-1114 a blocking diode as well? Anyway I disconnected the turn signal indicator from the headlight housing and then cut the Orange and light Blue wires. I then connected a 276-1114 diode with the Anode side to the Orange wire and also connected another one to the Light Blue wire with the Anode side as well. I then twisted the opposite ends of the Diodes (Cathode sides) together and then connect a wire from the twisted Cathode ends to the Orange wire on the Socket. I  then took another piece of wire and connected one end to the Light Blue wire of the socket and the other end to ground. I figured at this point the LED turn signal indicator would now blink for both the left and right turn signal. So I turned  on the ignition and now neither left or right turn signal would blink. After messing with it for a while I finally decided to check the fuse and low and behold the 10 amp fuse had blown. Seeing I had only one more 10 amp fuse I decided to I install it and wired everything the way it was (no diodes) and it worked fine with the exception the turn signal indicator still only worked when the left turned signal was on.
 
So with this said did I wire it up correctly and am I using the correct diodes.

Anyone's input is much appreciated as I really want to get this working.

Thanks
Gerry

[John U.]

The diodes couldn't have caused the fuse to blow, you must have touched a hot wire to ground.
About the indicator light not working, are you sure you wired the diodes in the right direction?. The diodes work by allowing electricity to flow in only one direction, they will not allow reverse flow. If installed backwards they will not allow flow to the indicator light.

[icemanisintexas]

John should the anode side not have been connected to the orange and blue wire coming from the trun signal switch?

Gerry

[John U.]

The diode has a darker band around it's body. I if memory serves the band is on the cathode side. The current flow needs to be frome the anode to the cathode. Current will not flow in the oposite direction.

[icemanisintexas]

Well I don't get it RP. I went back this morning after seeing your email and I connected the diodes back up just like you and others have said. Exactly. I then put a new 10 amp fuse back in. I then turned on the ignition and both turn signals illuminated . But as soon as I turned on the flasher the 10 amp fuse blew again. I verified that I have nothing shorted out and the diodes where wired just like what was in the diagram. Am I using the correct diodes for what I trying to do? HELP!!!! I'm out of fuses.


PS this can't be rocket science is it?


Gerry

[RP#62]

Gerry, you need to start isolating where the problem is.  There's a 6-pin green connector in the headlight shell.  Its the feed to all the indicator lights.  Try pulling it apart and with it apart, see if everything works (i.e. all turn signals work without blowing the fuse - indicator lights will be out of course).  You may also want to test the diodes.  If all turn signal lights come on when you turn the key on, it sounds like one or both diodes may be shorted.  The reason you put diodes in is to keep one side from backfeeding the other side and turning all the lights on.  Let us know what you find.
-RP

[icemanisintexas]

Well everyone I have to admit it. I screwed up and wasted everyone's time. I swore that I looked at that very simple schematic and wired it correctly. Well the results I was having kinda explains things. Anyway after I had but things back together last night I decided just to look at that schematic again. Low and behold the o'l light bulb went on so this morning I wired it up correctly (just like the schematic) and now my LED turn indicator flashes for both the left and right signals. I guess it was "ROCKET SCIENCE" in my brain.

Thanks everyone for supplying me your input.

Gerry

 

[RP#62]

Glad you got it fixed.  This stuff can drive you nuts.
-RP