Obama just announced

[Robert]

That marriage between 2 men or 2 women just as right as a man and woman and that there is a hate crimes bill that is almost through the senate and when done he will sign it into law. This bill if its the one I'm thinking it is will limit our free speech.

[Puffs Daddy]

That marriage between 2 men or 2 women just as right as a man and woman and that there is a hate crimes bill that is almost through the senate and when done he will sign it into law. This bill if its the one I'm think it is will limit our free speech.

Well, it will limit your "right" to beat up gays, but that doesn't exactly qualify as "free speech."

[Chrisj CMA]

There was one proposed bill that would make it a crime for a preacher to preach the truth of the Bible that homosexuality is not as right as Obama says.........not saying that is what this is about, we shall see

[Jack]

Personally, I don't care about homosexuals marrying, serving in the military, or whatever else the rest of us have the right to do.  Their life-style may be morally wrong but, I have met and seen many gays who were a positive force in their communities.  When their actions interfere with mine, then I'll worry.  Live and let live.

[Puffs Daddy]

There was one proposed bill that would make it a crime for a preacher to preach the truth of the Bible that homosexuality is not as right as Obama says.........not saying that is what this is about, we shall see

That is nonsense. There is no such bill, just fear mongering on the loony right.

[JimL]

Personally, I don't care about homosexuals marrying, serving in the military, or whatever else the rest of us have the right to do.  Their life-style may be morally wrong but, I have met and seen many gays who were a positive force in their communities.  When their actions interfere with mine, then I'll worry.  Live and let live.

I agree completely.

The government should take a "laissez faire" attitude toward homosexuality as long as it is between consenting adults, hell as far as I am concerned let them marry their pet hamster if that what works for them.  As far as gays in the military, I have done a 180 degree turnaround on that one.  I am all in favor of any guy who wants to serve on the front lines (even if he wants to wear pink womens undergarmets) standing right along side "Butch" while she is sporting a John Holmes prosthesis.  To each his own, as long as their political views don't encroach on my rights (or my wallet).

[fudgie]

I guess I feel different on the subject. I'm for them getting married if they want. Who am I to tell another person to not do what they want to do, but do what I want them to do.  ??? I'm not one to push my beliefs on another person. I might not like the color tan but this does not mean I can tell my neighbor not to paint his house that color. People should have the choice to do what they want. I have numberous G/L friends and they are great people. Some even moved to Canada to marry. Some of my best outta State partying was at a Lesbien club. 

[Doc Moose]

"Some of my best outta State partying was at a Lesbien club. "

Fudgie, you party animal!

Our Congress, full of lawyers, will pass another bill for lawyer's benefit.  The civil, prenupt, and divorce lawyers are probably licking their chops at this one! 

[Serk]

Personally, I don't care about homosexuals marrying, serving in the military, or whatever else the rest of us have the right to do.  Their life-style may be morally wrong but, I have met and seen many gays who were a positive force in their communities.  When their actions interfere with mine, then I'll worry.  Live and let live.

Sorry to get all AOL'er on ya'll, but..... "Me Too!"

[fudgie]

"Some of my best outta State partying was at a Lesbien club. "

Fudgie, you party animal!

Our Congress, full of lawyers, will pass another bill for lawyer's benefit.  The civil, prenupt, and divorce lawyers are probably licking their chops at this one! 

LOL, i am so glad we didn't have cameras with us.    You should have seen the place when me and 3 guys, and a girl walked in. Music stopped and everyone turned around and looked.  Reminded me of Animal House when they walked into that bar that Ottis was singing in. 

[ArmyValker]

I'm pretty much of the opinion that gays and lesbians should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't encroach on my ability to do the same.

However, I don't think getting rid of "don't ask don't tell" is gonna be easy. I'm not even sure if I even totally agree with it. I don't agree with putting women in combat line units, and I don't think allowing gays to "openly" serve is going to be beneficial in these unit's either. In fact, I'm of the opinion that most gays in combat unit's wouldn't probably "come out" even if they were allowed. It's just not the kind of environment that lends itself to acceptance.

The catch is, if gay marriage is legal, the military would HAVE to repeal "don't ask, don't tell" because gay soldiers would be eligible for the same benefits as straight soldiers as far as Housing, Pay, and Medical benefits.

In any case, it's gonna be a real process for the military and the soldiers, and I don't envy those who have to be the trailblazers.

[98valk]

There was one proposed bill that would make it a crime for a preacher to preach the truth of the Bible that homosexuality is not as right as Obama says.........not saying that is what this is about, we shall see

That is nonsense. There is no such bill, just fear mongering on the loony right.

go read the hate crime legislation. It is nothing more than a bill to do away with the 1st admendment rights.
Question, if there are already laws against hitting another person, killing another person, etc., aka as one's actions,  then why do we need to legislate ones thoughts also before the action happens?

[Puffs Daddy]

There was one proposed bill that would make it a crime for a preacher to preach the truth of the Bible that homosexuality is not as right as Obama says.........not saying that is what this is about, we shall see

That is nonsense. There is no such bill, just fear mongering on the loony right.

go read the hate crime legislation. It is nothing more than a bill to do away with the 1st admendment rights.
Question, if there are already laws against hitting another person, killing another person, etc., aka as one's actions,  then why do we need to legislate ones thoughts also before the action happens?

Care to cite an example from the bill that would "do away with the 1st amendment rights?" Thought not. As to your question, perhaps you should check, oh about a thousand years worth of Anglo Saxon jurisprudence. The "motivation" associated with an act is frequently a factor in the definition of a crime. Consider, for example, the difference between degrees of homicide and the difference between manslaughter and homicide. Likewise, there are numerous examples of the law recognizing protected classes who suffer disproportionately from particular crimes. The most obvious is the distinction between a rape committed against an adult and a child.

[Willow]

... As to your question, perhaps you should check, oh about a thousand years worth of Anglo Saxon jurisprudence. The "motivation" associated with an act is frequently a factor in the definition of a crime.

You know, I try to remain silent through a lot of this inanity, but sometimes it just gets to be too much.

You, PD, have obviously confused yourself over the difference between motivation and intent.

[Robert]

The House voted Thursday to expand the definition of violent federal hate crimes to those committed because of a victim’s sexual orientation, a step that would extend new protection to lesbian, gay and transgender people.The new measure would broaden the definition to include those committed because of gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability. It was approved by the House right before a weekend when gay rights will be a focus in Washington, with a march to the Capitol and a speech by President Obama to the Human Rights Campaign. They said the measure was an effort to create a class of “thought crimes” whose prosecution would require ascribing motivation to the attacker.
Republicans were also furious that the measure was attached to an essential $681 billion military policy bill, and accused Democrats of legislative blackmail.The hate crimes legislation would give the federal government authority to prosecute violent crimes of antigay bias when local authorities failed to act. It would also allocate $5 million a year to the Justice Department to provide assistance to local communities in investigating hate crimes, and it would allow the department to assist in the inquiry and local prosecution if requested.
So not only do gays being 3 percent of the population seem to be able to move the legislative process against all those that would oppose but now it will be Federal law that comes in and hammers anyone with a antigay message. The language of 'hate crimes' creates a problematic, preferred-victim ranking system by granting special protection to individuals based on their 'actual or perceived' sexual orientation or 'gender identity.' This violates the 14th Amendment's granting of equal protection to all American citizens under the law. Under so-called hate-crimes laws, pastors who preach a biblical sermon on homosexuality could face prosecution if they are found to have "induced" a hate crime against a self-identified homosexual or "transgendered" individual. The laws are also have changed in areas like Colorado so that something as simple as going to the bathroom creates the possibility of a hate crime,How? Colorado recently enacted SB 200, a law that opens "public accomodations" — including public restrooms — to members of the opposite sex. In the name of protecting transgendered individuals from discrimination, Colorado has paved the way for sexual predators to take advantage of the confusion caused by this law — and endanger women and children.SB 200 allows gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders to use the public accommodation of their choice, opening restrooms in your child’s school to sexual predators. So if you confront one of these individuals they can bring you up on charges under the hate crime bill and you will be facing Federal time even though you may be protecting your wife in the womens bathroom from some one of the opposite sex that is a peeping tom or sexual pervert. This adds a extra threat of prosecution or litigation in an effort to persuade all to accept the gay lifestyle. Also I find it very interesting that Obama is plugging this military acceptance since the hate crimes bill is attached to the military bill that our military needs, a good strategic move by Obama. So if you think that the gay thing doesn't effect you think again. Also gays fought for civil unions and got it but they weren't happy with that, which included all the benefits so they are now wanting the title of married along with the adoption of children. I am not against gay people as the person I am against the lifestyle and what it brings with it. Yes there are some very committed gay couples out there but that is the exception not the rule. Plus I don't want laws changed in the US just to deal with someones perceived sexual orientation.

[Jack]

The House voted Thursday to expand the definition of violent federal hate crimes to those committed because of a victim’s sexual orientation, a step that would extend new protection to lesbian, gay and transgender people.The new measure would broaden the definition to include those committed because of gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability. It was approved by the House right before a weekend when gay rights will be a focus in Washington, with a march to the Capitol and a speech by President Obama to the Human Rights Campaign. They said the measure was an effort to create a class of “thought crimes” whose prosecution would require ascribing motivation to the attacker.
Republicans were also furious that the measure was attached to an essential $681 billion military policy bill, and accused Democrats of legislative blackmail.The hate crimes legislation would give the federal government authority to prosecute violent crimes of antigay bias when local authorities failed to act. It would also allocate $5 million a year to the Justice Department to provide assistance to local communities in investigating hate crimes, and it would allow the department to assist in the inquiry and local prosecution if requested.
So not only do gays being 3 percent of the population seem to be able to move the legislative process against all those that would oppose but now it will be Federal law that comes in and hammers anyone with a antigay message. The language of 'hate crimes' creates a problematic, preferred-victim ranking system by granting special protection to individuals based on their 'actual or perceived' sexual orientation or 'gender identity.' This violates the 14th Amendment's granting of equal protection to all American citizens under the law. Under so-called hate-crimes laws, pastors who preach a biblical sermon on homosexuality could face prosecution if they are found to have "induced" a hate crime against a self-identified homosexual or "transgendered" individual. The laws are also have changed in areas like Colorado so that something as simple as going to the bathroom creates the possibility of a hate crime,How? Colorado recently enacted SB 200, a law that opens "public accomodations" — including public restrooms — to members of the opposite sex. In the name of protecting transgendered individuals from discrimination, Colorado has paved the way for sexual predators to take advantage of the confusion caused by this law — and endanger women and children.SB 200 allows gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders to use the public accommodation of their choice, opening restrooms in your child’s school to sexual predators. So if you confront one of these individuals they can bring you up on charges under the hate crime bill and you will be facing Federal time even though you may be protecting your wife in the womens bathroom from some one of the opposite sex that is a peeping tom or sexual pervert. This adds a extra threat of prosecution or litigation in an effort to persuade all to accept the gay lifestyle. Also I find it very interesting that Obama is plugging this military acceptance since the hate crimes bill is attached to the military bill that our military needs, a good strategic move by Obama. So if you think that the gay thing doesn't effect you think again. Also gays fought for civil unions and got it but they weren't happy with that, which included all the benefits so they are now wanting the title of married along with the adoption of children. I am not against gay people as the person I am against the lifestyle and what it brings with it. Yes there are some very committed gay couples out there but that is the exception not the rule. Plus I don't want laws changed in the US just to deal with someones perceived sexual orientation.

You must have had a very scary childhood.  You seem to think that most if not all Gays are sick perverts who want nothing less than your children.  Maybe, you also think they should be rounded up and put in concentration camps and gassed.  True, the Democrats are really reaching to the extreme on some of this but remember, we have the right to vote them out of office when their term expires.  All is not necessarily lost in the long run.

[Robert]

 Justice Earl Wilson will take up the case of a pastor punished by the Alberta Human Rights Commission for letters-to-the-editor published in a newspaper regarding his Christian views on homosexual behavior.
A University of Calgary professor, Dr. Darren Lund, reported Pastor Stephen Boissoin to the Alberta Human Rights Commission in 2002 for published letters Boissoin wrote on homosexual behavior. Lund accused Boissoin of violating a Canadian human rights law with regard to “sexual orientation” after two letters from Boissoin appeared in the Red Deer Advocate that year.

A bill introduced in Congress Tuesday that would repeal the federal Defense of Marriage Act demonstrates the increasing amount of contempt America’s political leaders appear to have for the values of the people they serve.Ninety members of the U.S. House of Representatives introduced the repeal as the “Respect for Marriage Act.”“That’s like introducing a tax hike called the ‘Tax Reduction Bill.’ The government is not respecting marriage when it repeals protections of it,” said Raum. According to U.S. Census Bureau statistics, same-sex couples represent only 0.4% of the total U.S. population

[Robert]

Well Jack since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what you know about the situation.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Too damn many people in the world as it is. A few more “couples” who don’t have the ability to reproduce won’t break my heart. However, the idea that crimes against the politically correct require more punishment than crimes against the rest of us doesn’t sit well with me. If we are all equal then our lives are of equal value.

[fudgie]

Well Jack since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what you know about the situation.

I think he was going for is that being G/L are totally different then being sexual predators, as talked about in your post. Thats just steriotyping.

Heck alot of my lady friends have used mens restrooms before. Even while being occupied by men. Ive'd used womens before. Made sure it was empty outta curtisy. My 1st two years at the Chip it was common practice to have women shower with the men. Of coarse the men didn't, again outta curtisy.

As for school restroom, around here the kids are separate from the adults.

[fudgie]

Too damn many people in the world as it is. A few more “couples” who don’t have the ability to reproduce won’t break my heart. However, the idea that crimes against the politically correct require more punishment than crimes against the rest of us doesn’t sit well with me. If we are all equal then our lives are of equal value.

  Thing is tho, we all are not equal anymore.

[Jack]

Well Jack since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what you know about the situation.

I think he was going for is that being G/L are totally different then being sexual predators, as talked about in your post. Thats just steriotyping.

Heck alot of my lady friends have used mens restrooms before. Even while being occupied by men. Ive'd used womens before. Made sure it was empty outta curtisy. My 1st two years at the Chip it was common practice to have women shower with the men. Of coarse the men didn't, again outta curtisy.

As for school restroom, around here the kids are separate from the adults.

You got it, Fudgie!  Thanks.

[fudgie]

Well Jack since you seem to be in the know why don't you tell us what you know about the situation.

I think he was going for is that being G/L are totally different then being sexual predators, as talked about in your post. Thats just steriotyping.

Heck alot of my lady friends have used mens restrooms before. Even while being occupied by men. Ive'd used womens before. Made sure it was empty outta curtisy. My 1st two years at the Chip it was common practice to have women shower with the men. Of coarse the men didn't, again outta curtisy.

As for school restroom, around here the kids are separate from the adults.

You got it, Fudgie!  Thanks.

 

[Willow]

You got it, Fudgie!  Thanks.

Actually Fudgie and Jack (and I mean this in the most kind and respectful way) if you'd read Robert's post carefully you would have seen that he said nothing of the kind.  

What Robert said is that the Colorado law, intended to accommodate homosexuals and trans-gendered individuals, made it possible for anyone, including those with ulterior motives to go into whichever restroom they choose.

I didn't see that he specifically linked homosexuals with sexual predators, but that sexual predators, whatever their preference, could take advantage of the Colorado law.  

[PAVALKER]

IMO we (mankind) are all doomed..... we have turned our backs on our religion, our god, and what this great nation was founded and based on.    Slowly but surely we are engaged in the self destruct mode, much like the Roman Empire failed.   Once we "embrace" homosexuality, then bestiality may follow and the SPCA will be outlawed because a few want to have a relationship with an animal and think their individual rights are being violated because of it.   Things that we don't like happen and we know it, but at times we ignore it because we can't change it, but when the things that we don't like happening become an acceptable standard then it only progressively gets worse. Ignorance has now become acceptance.

If things continue on the path they are now, we will all be of the same color, same religion (if any) and same sex.... we just gotta keep screwing each other.


An interesting read....

Parallels between the fall of Rome and modern America
by Charles Biggs

Sally Kern was right - great civilizations that fully embrace homosexuality don’t last much longer.

Rep. Kern, a state lawmaker from Oklahoma City, has been the center of a firestorm after she made some absolutely truthful statements about the danger of homosexuality.

Of course, radical homosexuals like Ellen Degeneres (degenerate?) and liberal newspapers like the Tulsa World have twisted her words to attack her credibility.

It doesn’t matter because truth is truth whether they choose to believe it or not.

Did homosexuality cause Rome to fall? No, it can’t be listed as the only factor in the demise of the Roman Empire. But Sally Kern never made that statement.

Here’s my take – rampant homosexuality was a symptom of the moral decay of the Roman Empire that led to its eventual collapse.

I’m not the only one who takes that theory. Edward Gibbon, in his 18th century book Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, the first systematic history of the later Empire, points to homosexuality as a cause of the fall of Rome.

A lot of comparisons have been drawn between ancient Rome and modern America.

Dr. Carle Zimmerman in 1947 wrote a book called Family and Civilization. He studies the decline of several civilizations and empires. He discovered eight patterns of domestic behavior that signaled the decline of a civilization:

1. The breakdown of marriage and rise of divorce.

2. The loss of the traditional meaning of the marriage ceremony.

3. The rise of Feminism.

4. Increased public disrespect for parents and authority in general.

5. Acceleration of juvenile delinquency, promiscuity and rebellion.

6. Refusal of people with traditional marriages to accept their  family responsibilities.

7. A growing desire for and acceptance of adultery.

8. Increasing interest in and spread of sexual perversions (homosexuality) and sex-related crimes.

See any parallels in modern America? Maybe we should be listening to Rep. Kern a little more carefully.

Every historian – even modern homosexual revisionists – admit that Rome was riddled with homosexuals. Hadrian, one of the best emperors, traveled the empire with a youthful lover, Antinous. Caligula and Nero were accused of having sex with just about anyone or anything.

Here’s another historical fact. Rampant homosexuality among the upper classes in Rome led to a decline in the birth rate among aristocrats and reduced the pool of leadership manpower.

In the fifth century AD, Rome was a mess. Germanic Goths overran the Northeastern Roman border in 406.

Other non-Christian tribes - Vandals, Franks, Burgundians, Lombards, Visigoths, and Ostro-goths –posed serious threats to external Roman security. Rome’s internal problems made a unified response impossible.

In 410 AD, Alaric led the Visigoths into Rome and the city was taken for the first time in 1,000 years.

The Western Roman Empire fell again to the Vandals in AD 455, and again in AD 476, when Germanic tribes over-ran it.

Rome was riddled with pederasty (literally “boy-love”), which refers to an intimate relationship between a boy and an adult male outside his family.

Every major religion in the world – including Islam – condemns homosexual behavior. In “peaceful” Muslim countries, practicing homosexuals are often killed.

Homosexuality is condemned in the Old Testament in Leviticus 20:13 and in the New Testament in Romans 1. In Matthew, male and female relationships are the only sexual relationships allowed by Jesus (Matthew 19:4-6).

But homosexuality is not the core issue. The real issue is when a nation turns its back on God.

If you study scripture, you understand that the sin of homosexuality is as bad as promiscuity, fornication, prostitution, bestiality and any sexual activity apart from holy matrimony between one man and one woman.

This is hedonism, which places personal pleasure above any concept of right or wrong. So, modern homosexuals are rejecting God’s plan for righteous fulfillment of a God-given sex drive and replacing it for a “if it feels good, do it,” philosophy.

And homosexuality, like prostitution, bestiality, etc., is a destructive lifestyle. It always damages those who get caught up in it.

Homosexual men rarely have monogamous relationships. That greatly increases the risk of disease from  their unnatural acts.

A homosexual publication printed the following statistics:

• 24 percent of homosexual men had more than 100 partners.

• 43 percent of homosexual men had more than 500 partners.

• 28 percent of homosexual men had more than 1,000 partners.

A study by the Journal of Sex Research showed that only 2.7 percent of the 2,583 older homosexuals surveyed claimed to have sex with only one partner.

The risk of anal cancer for homosexual men rises by an amazing 4,000 percent and doubles again for those who are HIV positive. According to the Centers for Disease Control, homosexual men are a thousand times more likely to contract AIDS than the general male heterosexual population.

If your risk of being killed by a terrorist rose by 4,000 percent, you would probably take steps to stop it.

So, when you place homosexuality in the context of a move away from God’s morality to selfishness and licentiousness, it suddenly does become more dangerous than a terrorist with a bomb in a subway.

Sally was right. The homosexuals, including those who sent her death threats, are dead wrong.

If America continues down a path of rejection of God’s standards, we will suffer the same fate as Rome.





AND... on a lighter note....  this past week was my birthday.  The 2 lesbians a few houses down from me asked what I wanted for my birthday.  I told em "I wanna watch"......   next thing I know I get a gift box with a Timex in it.  Go figure......

[Robert]

Willow and PA well put  thank you for the words when I couldn't find them uh PA including the last part HEH HEH HEH 

[JimL]

Actually Fudgie and Jack (and I mean this in the most kind and respectful way)

LOL ... "Come into my parlor" said the spider to the fly! (just kidding folks...it is raining AGAIN...and I need some humor)

[Charlie]

AND... on a lighter note....  this past week was my birthday.  The 2 lesbians a few houses down from me asked what I wanted for my birthday.  I told em "I wanna watch"......   next thing I know I get a gift box with a Timex in it.  Go figure......

Wow!  Those are some generous Lesbians!  When the two hetersexual neighbors down the street asked me what I wanted for my birthday, I said I wanted them to quite their dog.  They gave me a set of earplugs.

[Chrisj CMA]

IMO we (mankind) are all doomed..... we have turned our backs on our religion, our god, and what this great nation was founded and based on.    Slowly but surely we are engaged in the self destruct mode, much like the Roman Empire failed.   Once we "embrace" homosexuality, then bestiality may follow and the SPCA will be outlawed because a few want to have a relationship with an animal and think their individual rights are being violated because of it.   Things that we don't like happen and we know it, but at times we ignore it because we can't change it, but when the things that we don't like happening become an acceptable standard then it only progressively gets worse. Ignorance has now become acceptance.

If things continue on the path they are now, we will all be of the same color, same religion (if any) and same sex.... we just gotta keep screwing each other.


An interesting read....

Parallels between the fall of Rome and modern America
by Charles Biggs

Sally Kern was right - great civilizations that fully embrace homosexuality don’t last much longer.

Rep. Kern, a state lawmaker from Oklahoma City, has been the center of a firestorm after she made some absolutely truthful statements about the danger of homosexuality.

Of course, radical homosexuals like Ellen Degeneres (degenerate?) and liberal newspapers like the Tulsa World have twisted her words to attack her credibility.

It doesn’t matter because truth is truth whether they choose to believe it or not.

Did homosexuality cause Rome to fall? No, it can’t be listed as the only factor in the demise of the Roman Empire. But Sally Kern never made that statement.

Here’s my take – rampant homosexuality was a symptom of the moral decay of the Roman Empire that led to its eventual collapse.

I’m not the only one who takes that theory. Edward Gibbon, in his 18th century book Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, the first systematic history of the later Empire, points to homosexuality as a cause of the fall of Rome.

A lot of comparisons have been drawn between ancient Rome and modern America.

Dr. Carle Zimmerman in 1947 wrote a book called Family and Civilization. He studies the decline of several civilizations and empires. He discovered eight patterns of domestic behavior that signaled the decline of a civilization:

1. The breakdown of marriage and rise of divorce.

2. The loss of the traditional meaning of the marriage ceremony.

3. The rise of Feminism.

4. Increased public disrespect for parents and authority in general.

5. Acceleration of juvenile delinquency, promiscuity and rebellion.

6. Refusal of people with traditional marriages to accept their  family responsibilities.

7. A growing desire for and acceptance of adultery.

8. Increasing interest in and spread of sexual perversions (homosexuality) and sex-related crimes.

See any parallels in modern America? Maybe we should be listening to Rep. Kern a little more carefully.

Every historian – even modern homosexual revisionists – admit that Rome was riddled with homosexuals. Hadrian, one of the best emperors, traveled the empire with a youthful lover, Antinous. Caligula and Nero were accused of having sex with just about anyone or anything.

Here’s another historical fact. Rampant homosexuality among the upper classes in Rome led to a decline in the birth rate among aristocrats and reduced the pool of leadership manpower.

In the fifth century AD, Rome was a mess. Germanic Goths overran the Northeastern Roman border in 406.

Other non-Christian tribes - Vandals, Franks, Burgundians, Lombards, Visigoths, and Ostro-goths –posed serious threats to external Roman security. Rome’s internal problems made a unified response impossible.

In 410 AD, Alaric led the Visigoths into Rome and the city was taken for the first time in 1,000 years.

The Western Roman Empire fell again to the Vandals in AD 455, and again in AD 476, when Germanic tribes over-ran it.

Rome was riddled with pederasty (literally “boy-love”), which refers to an intimate relationship between a boy and an adult male outside his family.

Every major religion in the world – including Islam – condemns homosexual behavior. In “peaceful” Muslim countries, practicing homosexuals are often killed.

Homosexuality is condemned in the Old Testament in Leviticus 20:13 and in the New Testament in Romans 1. In Matthew, male and female relationships are the only sexual relationships allowed by Jesus (Matthew 19:4-6).

But homosexuality is not the core issue. The real issue is when a nation turns its back on God.

If you study scripture, you understand that the sin of homosexuality is as bad as promiscuity, fornication, prostitution, bestiality and any sexual activity apart from holy matrimony between one man and one woman.

This is hedonism, which places personal pleasure above any concept of right or wrong. So, modern homosexuals are rejecting God’s plan for righteous fulfillment of a God-given sex drive and replacing it for a “if it feels good, do it,” philosophy.

And homosexuality, like prostitution, bestiality, etc., is a destructive lifestyle. It always damages those who get caught up in it.

Homosexual men rarely have monogamous relationships. That greatly increases the risk of disease from  their unnatural acts.

A homosexual publication printed the following statistics:

• 24 percent of homosexual men had more than 100 partners.

• 43 percent of homosexual men had more than 500 partners.

• 28 percent of homosexual men had more than 1,000 partners.

A study by the Journal of Sex Research showed that only 2.7 percent of the 2,583 older homosexuals surveyed claimed to have sex with only one partner.

The risk of anal cancer for homosexual men rises by an amazing 4,000 percent and doubles again for those who are HIV positive. According to the Centers for Disease Control, homosexual men are a thousand times more likely to contract AIDS than the general male heterosexual population.

If your risk of being killed by a terrorist rose by 4,000 percent, you would probably take steps to stop it.

So, when you place homosexuality in the context of a move away from God’s morality to selfishness and licentiousness, it suddenly does become more dangerous than a terrorist with a bomb in a subway.

Sally was right. The homosexuals, including those who sent her death threats, are dead wrong.

If America continues down a path of rejection of God’s standards, we will suffer the same fate as Rome.





AND... on a lighter note....  this past week was my birthday.  The 2 lesbians a few houses down from me asked what I wanted for my birthday.  I told em "I wanna watch"......   next thing I know I get a gift box with a Timex in it.  Go figure......

PAVALKER, IMHO this is a very brave response you posted.  You may get a flaming answer or two, but it is truth and that is hard to hear for some.  

I agree with you 100% I also think personal behavior and National policy have to follow  much different standards if we want to continue being the exceptional nation that we have always been. As a Nation ONE NATION UNDER GOD even... we (national policy) should not embrace something that is an abomination to God even though people in our nation should have every right to do in their private lives what they choose.  Once we eliminate the perceived line between right and wrong as a nation (which we are doing at an alarming pace) we will be in serious trouble.  

[JimL]

IMO we (mankind) are all doomed..... we have turned our backs on our religion, our god, and what this great nation was founded and based on.    Slowly but surely we are engaged in the self destruct mode, much like the Roman Empire failed.   Once we "embrace" homosexuality, then bestiality may follow and the SPCA will be outlawed because a few want to have a relationship with an animal and think their individual rights are being violated because of it.   Things that we don't like happen and we know it, but at times we ignore it because we can't change it, but when the things that we don't like happening become an acceptable standard then it only progressively gets worse. Ignorance has now become acceptance.

PAVALKER I agree with you more than I disagree with you.  However the issue of homosexuality is a topic I have struggled with for many years.  Homosexuality sickens me to (put it bluntly) when it is flaunted in public, that having been said, I have worked with several homosexuals during my career and have learned a bit more about them than I knew in my youth.  There is one thing I am absolutely convinced, homosexuality is not a preference, it is a condition that one does not freely choose.  Who in their right mind would choose the torment that many of us (me included) put these folks through when we were teenagers?  Many commit suicide early in life because they can't face the humiliation that society once put them through.

I suspect with the advances in genome research, very soon geneticists will discover that homosexuality is a genetic aberration similar to Downs Syndrome, Hemophilia, color blindness and several other conditions caused by genetic abnormalities.

My next statement will be controversial for sure, and I don't mean it to be so...but in my opinion, if it is true that homosexuality is a genetic aberration, then this is something that occurs as part of his gift of life (just like Down Syndrome).

Even if homosexuality is not genetic, but rather a hedonistic preference; our constitution does not cover the legislation of morality.  Either way the state needs to stay out of it.  Which leads me to my last thought......

Regardless of the cause of homosexuality, this does not mean I feel it is right for liberal Democrats to  push special legislation that gives greater sanctity to their life (as demonstrated by special punishment) for crimes committed against them.  It is very hard to prove "intent".  I shutter at the thought of an ambitious District Attorney eager to curry politcal favor in a city like San Francisco, charging the defendant in a deadly bar-room-brawl with "hate crimes" when in reality it was just 2 stupid people involved in a bar-room fight similar to ones that have been occurring since the beginning of civilization (or uncivilization as it may be).
 
These are simply my thoughts after years of struggling with the issue, I don't claim that they are any more correct or incorrect than anyone elses opinion.

[Serk]

A homosexual publication printed the following statistics:

• 24 percent of homosexual men had more than 100 partners.

• 43 percent of homosexual men had more than 500 partners.

• 28 percent of homosexual men had more than 1,000 partners.

I won't get into the moral argument, and kept telling myself to just stay outta this, but..... To put it quite literally, your numbers just don't add up...

(If 28% had 1000 partners, then the percentage who had more than 100 partners should be > than 28%... etc...)

(And, having known and lived among the gay community for many years, I know these numbers are 100% bogus...)

[fudgie]

You got it, Fudgie!  Thanks.

Actually Fudgie and Jack (and I mean this in the most kind and respectful way) if you'd read Robert's post carefully you would have seen that he said nothing of the kind.  

What Robert said is that the Colorado law, intended to accommodate homosexuals and trans-gendered individuals, made it possible for anyone, including those with ulterior motives to go into whichever restroom they choose.

I didn't see that he specifically linked homosexuals with sexual predators, but that sexual predators, whatever their preference, could take advantage of the Colorado law.  

Thx for continuing being kind and respectful!    I guess I was 'confused' by this line. SB 200 allows gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders to use the public accommodation of their choice, opening restrooms in your child’s school to sexual predators. It didn't say anything about straights using the facillities so it lead me to see as those 2 were the same. But like I said before don't most if all schools have separate restrooms in schools? Then again, why is a predator working at school anyway. 

[fudgie]

A homosexual publication printed the following statistics:

• 24 percent of homosexual men had more than 100 partners.

• 43 percent of homosexual men had more than 500 partners.

• 28 percent of homosexual men had more than 1,000 partners.

I won't get into the moral argument, and kept telling myself to just stay outta this, but..... To put it quite literally, your numbers just don't add up...

(If 28% had 1000 partners, then the percentage who had more than 100 partners should be > than 28%... etc...)

(And, having known and lived among the gay community for many years, I know these numbers are 100% bogus...)

Agree, seems bogus.
Lets not get into Wilt Chanberlins numbers! 

[PAVALKER]

First off, the "numbers" are not mine and I don't have the technical data to argue the numbers with you.  It would appear you  just want to argue the numbers as being factual and not the main issue.  I'm sure your living among the gay community qualifies you to speak numbers, but can we assume there are more than one or even two gay communities ....  this is a big country.

I believe it is a typical liberal (or just typically political) argument to dispute or discredit some minor insignificant facts or issues with a statement and then claim the entire statement to be false and irrelevant.   If you want to argue numbers or facts, then present some of your own that dispute the others.  But the numbers are not mine and that is not my point, even without those numbers, the statement still stands.

[98valk]

IMO we (mankind) are all doomed..... we have turned our backs on our religion, our god, and what this great nation was founded and based on.    Slowly but surely we are engaged in the self destruct mode, much like the Roman Empire failed.   Once we "embrace" homosexuality, then bestiality may follow and the SPCA will be outlawed because a few want to have a relationship with an animal and think their individual rights are being violated because of it.   Things that we don't like happen and we know it, but at times we ignore it because we can't change it, but when the things that we don't like happening become an acceptable standard then it only progressively gets worse. Ignorance has now become acceptance.

PAVALKER I agree with you more than I disagree with you.  However the issue of homosexuality is a topic I have struggled with for many years.  Homosexuality sickens me to (put it bluntly) when it is flaunted in public, that having been said, I have worked with several homosexuals during my career and have learned a bit more about them than I knew in my youth.  There is one thing I am absolutely convinced, homosexuality is not a preference, it is a condition that one does not freely choose.  Who in their right mind would choose the torment that many of us (me included) put these folks through when we were teenagers?  Many commit suicide early in life because they can't face the humiliation that society once put them through.

I suspect with the advances in genome research, very soon geneticists will discover that homosexuality is a genetic aberration similar to Downs Syndrome, Hemophilia, color blindness and several other conditions caused by genetic abnormalities.

My next statement will be controversial for sure, and I don't mean it to be so...but in my opinion, if it is true that homosexuality is a genetic aberration, then this is something that occurs as part of his gift of life (just like Down Syndrome).

Even if homosexuality is not genetic, but rather a hedonistic preference; our constitution does not cover the legislation of morality.  Either way the state needs to stay out of it.  Which leads me to my last thought......

Regardless of the cause of homosexuality, this does not mean I feel it is right for liberal Democrats to  push special legislation that gives greater sanctity to their life (as demonstrated by special punishment) for crimes committed against them.  It is very hard to prove "intent".  I shutter at the thought of an ambitious District Attorney eager to curry politcal favor in a city like San Francisco, charging the defendant in a deadly bar-room-brawl with "hate crimes" when in reality it was just 2 stupid people involved in a bar-room fight similar to ones that have been occurring since the beginning of civilization (or uncivilization as it may be).
 
These are simply my thoughts after years of struggling with the issue, I don't claim that they are any more correct or incorrect than anyone elses opinion.

1. Our constitution and laws of the land do legislate morality. Is it moral to murder, rape, steal from, or beat up somebody?

2. they are not born that way. there are a few reasons. 1st, spiritual attack, this is why it is listed by God as a sin along with other sins, stealing, lying, adultry, fornication, and homosexuality which is not even listed as the first one. God gives everyone free will to either follow His ways or the ways of the world.  2nd, if one reads enough about  child development, there is a time when every child tries to make a bondment with the same sex parent or some other adult male for a male child in their lives, if it cannot happen the male child for this discussion will try to bond with other male children if that cannot happen then the male child will go bond with a female, in most cases the mother. anybody who has had children will realize that this does go on. How many male children have been raised without fathers in the last 20 yrs? with females it usually is no relationship with their mother who has to work, take of the house, etc, and gets to talk to their daughter for about 1/2hr/day
the last is a new thing, it is diet and the introduction of soy protein, esp soymilk formula. one bottle of soymilk is equivilent per the amount of estrogen of 30 birth control pills. A male baby has more testerone in its body than an 18 yr old, this develops the brain into a male. suppressing the test allows the estrogen to dominate and cause female aspects of the brain to grow verses the male aspect. go to www.mercola.com or google and search soy. all of the documention including the scientifc reports on this are there including from the drs who reported this to the FDA board and were ignored and then fired. Soy was always considered an industrial product until the mid 1990s when after the soy council paid off enough FDA members to get it reclassified as a food product. Soy in its raw form is a poison, only in fermented form does it have any health benefits. The history of soy in china and japan was always consumed in fermented form, except for tofu in very small amounts as a condiment and always with other meat protein to help counteract the effects of the raw soy.

Does below sound like todays society? The moral is if one wants to be stupid God will let one be.
Romans 1
 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

God Bless, Jesus is the Truth which will set u free

[Serk]

As I said initially, I won't argue the moral issue. You won't change my mind, and I can't change yours, so what's the point... And yeah, I'm a big liberal... Having an IMPEACH OBAMA sticker on your bike and car is a sure sign of a liberal these days...

And yeah, even though I've lived in the gay community (Heck, I proposed to my wife at a gay bar even), I fully concede that does not make me an expert... Of the several million gays in the country, I've only personally known a few hundred to a thousand. But amongst my small sampling, the vast majority are no more or less promiscuous than the average heterosexual people I know...

As I've aged, the number of my gay friends who are true friends and not passing bar friends has dwindled, but of those that are left (20 or so I'd guess) almost all of them are in long term relationships... Many have been so longer than my own marriage to my wife (Over 10 years). And all they want is to be left alone, and left to live their lives as they see fit...

 

[stormrider]

Make straight the pathway of the coming of the Lord! Judgement day is looming. Whether it be in the return of Jesus, a great economic collapse, one world rule, etc, America will pay an aweful price. We are over $38,000. in debt each for our national debt. Who's gonna pay? Who do we owe?
Fear the Lord thy God.

If we turn from our wicked ways he will heal our land.

What about the murder of the unborn, God's gift to man? 45 million since 1973.

[PAVALKER]

As I said initially, I won't argue the moral issue. You won't change my mind, and I can't change yours, so what's the point... And yeah, I'm a big liberal... Having an IMPEACH OBAMA sticker on your bike and car is a sure sign of a liberal these days...

And yeah, even though I've lived in the gay community (Heck, I proposed to my wife at a gay bar even), I fully concede that does not make me an expert... Of the several million gays in the country, I've only personally known a few hundred to a thousand. But amongst my small sampling, the vast majority are no more or less promiscuous than the average heterosexual people I know...

As I've aged, the number of my gay friends who are true friends and not passing bar friends has dwindled, but of those that are left (20 or so I'd guess) almost all of them are in long term relationships... Many have been so longer than my own marriage to my wife (Over 10 years). And all they want is to be left alone, and left to live their lives as they see fit...

I believe the moral issue was the topic, not the numbers.  So even if I throw out those numbers it's a mute point. And my liberal comment was more of a reference to political behavior than a specific party.  I won't argue the promiscuity differences, because that is not the issue either, I concede that some individuals are just more promiscuous than others (even within the same sexual category).   

As you stated, most people just want to live their lives as they see fit, and I can support that to a degree.  And for the most part, those homosexual individuals are living their lives as they see fit within our country and communities, whether we may agree with their behavior or not.  We have ignored it and looked away and now it has become more of acceptance by default. However, for those individuals to demand Gay Rights and benefits for equality and benefits from a government that was and is still religious based (sorta) is like illegal aliens that managed to crawl into the country under the fence demanding support and benefits like they were legal citizens..... and that is another issue that will contribute to the demise of this country as we know it.  What if those that are into bestiality then want to demand their Bestiality Rights and benefits for equality and government benefits????   It just isn't right..... and the more we ignore or try to sugar coat it into acceptance, the further we get into the self destruction phase of our society.  JMO......   

[Bonzo]

Hey Folks be Folk. Why should we care?

[JimL]

1. Our constitution and laws of the land do legislate morality. Is it moral to murder, rape, steal from, or beat up somebody?

This statement is embarrassingly easy to debunk.  If we take your statement that the constitution and the laws of the land legislate morality:

(1) We consult the transcript of the Constitution of the United States to see if the moral issues you just listed (murder, rape, stealing) are addressed

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Possibly its just me, but I think quite a few other folks will also come to the conclusion that none of these are addressed in the United State Constitution.

(2)  Although many of our common laws COINCIDE with Christian Morality, which in turn are based on the 10 commandments....it is completely false to say that our laws legislate morality.  Clearly according to the 10 commandments it is immoral to commit adultery and covet your neighbors wife, but it is definitely not against the law.  Clearly murder, rape and stealing are against the law of the land, however it is not because they are in the 10 commandments; if it were then this would be a direct violation of our freedom of religion (or no religion at all).  Murder, rape and stealing are illegal because our legal scholars and legislators realize that these things along with a myriad of other laws such as anti-trust legislation, reckless driving laws, etc. etc. are necessary for the orderly existence of society.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum