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icandoitfaster
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« on: May 04, 2017, 09:09:25 PM » |
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Hey guys,
I’ve been having a fuel issue for about three years now and my service guy (35 years servicing Hondas) can’t figure it out. My buddy Mike, whom some of you know, told me to ask you guys and perhaps someone can come up with a solution.
Over the last three years my IS has left me stranded on the side of the road six times. The symptoms are like running out of gas, gradual loss of power until the bike stops running (usually takes about 15 to 30 seconds). This has only happened while riding in temps over 100 degrees. I wait on the side of the road for 10 to 15 minutes and the bike starts back up and continues running. It has happened three times with the tank at the halfway mark, twice when at the quarter mark and once when at the three quarter mark. I have ridden with a straw sticking out to the gas tank to allow air into the tank but it still happened. My petcock seems to work well as I can make the bike run out of fuel by turning it off while riding (it seems to seed properly in all three positions).
My mechanic thinks the fuel is boiling somehow and creating a vapor lock. Once it cools down a bit he thinks the vapor lock dissipates. He examined my vacuum line and fuel lines and found them in good order. He also thinks there is nothing wrong with the petcock. The bike motor is not overheating. Oil, gas and coolant are all good. Plugs are new. Air cleaner is clean. New fuel filter.
Any Ideas or suggestions on where we should be looking would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
paul
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icandoitfaster
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 09:12:42 PM » |
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Hey guys,
I’ve been having a fuel issue for about three years now and my service guy (35 years servicing Hondas) can’t figure it out. My buddy Mike, whom some of you know, told me to ask you guys and perhaps someone can come up with a solution.
Over the last three years my IS has left me stranded on the side of the road six times. The symptoms are like running out of gas, gradual loss of power until the bike stops running (usually takes about 15 to 30 seconds). This has only happened while riding in temps over 100 degrees. I wait on the side of the road for 10 to 15 minutes and the bike starts back up and continues running. It has happened three times with the tank at the halfway mark, twice when at the quarter mark and once when at the three quarter mark. I have ridden with a straw sticking out to the gas tank to allow air into the tank but it still happened. My petcock seems to work well as I can make the bike run out of fuel by turning it off while riding (it seems to seed properly in all three positions).
My mechanic thinks the fuel is boiling somehow and creating a vapor lock. Once it cools down a bit he thinks the vapor lock dissipates. He examined my vacuum line and fuel lines and found them in good order. He also thinks there is nothing wrong with the petcock. The bike motor is not overheating. Oil, gas and coolant are all good. New fuel filter and air cleaner and plugs are good.
Any Ideas or suggestions on where we should be looking would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
paul
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longrider
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 10:42:41 PM » |
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If you think the petcock is ok then you better check it properly. The vacuum side of the petcock should not leak down if vacuum is applied. Remove the tank and perform a flow test into a bucket while applying vacuum. This will tell you if the diaphragm is holding. I'll bet it isn't
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Beardo
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 10:50:15 PM » |
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You added the fuel filter? Did you cut some fuel line out to add it or is there a bunch of slack in your fuel line now?
Have you tried removing the filter and/or shortening the fuel line?
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 03:45:08 AM » |
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New fuel filter I'm with Beardo, this is my first suspect. |
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Steel cowboy
Member
Posts: 1284
Moving ahead so life won’t pass me by.
Spring Hill, Fl.
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2017, 03:48:09 AM » |
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I had a similar issue with my I/S, but my throttle would increase if I got stuck in traffic or slow down from a high speed cruise (60 mph). I used a laser thermometer to check the carburator's temperature close to the radiator. I found that number 2 and 1 were at 227 degrees, when the idle would start to rise. I tried a can of canned air, turned it upside down and sprayed the front carburators, the throttle dropped instantly. The cause of the issue turned out to be the radiator shield between the carburators and radiator was missing. I purchased and installed the I/S shield and the problem disappeared. I don't know if this info will help but try the canned air sprayed on the carb's to cool them down, if you belive its vapor lock.
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2001 black interstate
2003 Jupiter Orange wing
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16781
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 04:56:01 AM » |
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Be suspicious of modifications to your bike... someone else suggested to look at the heat shield, or "air guide", that protects the carburetors... you say "new fuel filter", that's great if you mean a new fuel strainer over the petcock, suspicious if you mean some kind of add-on. What you describe also sounds suspiciously like a petcock problem, you can run vacuum tests on your petcock pretty easily, or rebuild it for around $35, or get a new one for around $125, or get one of the no-vaccum pingels... There's an easy vacuum test here: http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/petcock.htm-Mike |
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Hooter
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2017, 06:02:57 AM » |
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If you have an in line fuel filter and it isn't "hi-flow" I'd be suspicious of it. I made that mistake one time and it did what you are describing. Also your mechanic may be right about vapor lock, but never heard of a Valkyrie doing that.
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You are never lost if you don't care where you are!
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Bagger John - #3785
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 06:22:49 AM » |
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If you think the petcock is ok then you better check it properly. The vacuum side of the petcock should not leak down if vacuum is applied. Remove the tank and perform a flow test into a bucket while applying vacuum. This will tell you if the diaphragm is holding. I'll bet it isn't
My Tourer experienced this very scenario a couple years ago on the way home from work...lack of power and fuel starvation when being ridden at speeds above 40MPH. Upon limping it home, I did a petcock draw-down test with a handheld vacuum pump; lo and behold, it wouldn't hold. Replacement of the diaphragm via the Honda rebuild kit fixed the thing. |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2017, 06:33:01 AM » |
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When mine did this, I rebuilt the petcock, then when it started all over again in a year or so I replaced that dumb thing with a quality valve and never had a problem in eight or nine years since then.
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Pete
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2017, 09:05:36 AM » |
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Agreed fuel filter or petcock or both.
Just cannot see vapor happening unless it is the single gas line from the petcock. Not probable but I guess possible.
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« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 09:08:24 AM by Pete »
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15215
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2017, 09:24:02 AM » |
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Check the line from the petcock down to the Tee where it splits off to either carb bank. If there's any kind of droop or low spot in that line, it will most times act exactly as you described. Contrary to some opinions, it all has to run downhill from the petcock to the Tee. If you have a high flow external filter but still have a low spot, it will still cause trouble. And once heated up from engine heat, that low spot will indeed create a small vapor lock.
For those that doubt it, I've had a bike quit in just that manner and was in city traffic....not fun. I got down beside it, tried starting with no luck, then while a friend pressed the starter I physically lifted a low spot in the line from the petcock to the tee....it started. He went home and corrected it, no trouble since in nearly five years now. He had everything OEM except for cutting a longer feed line to facilitate attaching it to the petcock. That created a low spot which created his problem, more pronounced in hot weather.
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98valk
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2017, 01:23:11 PM » |
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needs a new petcock diaphragm. the rubber coating on the base material cracks over time due to constant movement. result small vacuum leaks. it has to be inspected with an eye piece to see the cracks while moving it in your hand.
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16614
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2017, 01:46:06 PM » |
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Beardo's assessment is most likely. More specifically, if there is any extra fuel line so that it is not a perfectly straight line in the heat it will develop an air bubble and seem to run out of fuel when it shouldn't. It happens regularly when one adds a fuel filter.
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icandoitfaster
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2017, 05:33:40 PM » |
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Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. I will print them all off tomorrow and take them to my service guy. I'm sure he will be able to fix the problem with this information. I will also order a new petcock and have it replaced.
cheers,
paul
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98valk
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 06:39:59 PM » |
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Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. I will print them all off tomorrow and take them to my service guy. I'm sure he will be able to fix the problem with this information. I will also order a new petcock and have it replaced.
cheers,
paul
u just need the rebuild kit, not a complete petcock. |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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sdv003
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2017, 07:27:03 PM » |
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It could well be vapor lock. I'm in Vegas and when the temps get hot (105*+) and I've been riding in stop and go traffic the fan will be on continuously. Soon thereafter, I start to get fuel starvation symptoms and the bike will ultimately stop running. Let it sit and cool a bit (10-15 min) and it comes back. I'm almost certain that it's fuel that has vaporized in the lines. It happened right after I rebuilt the petcock and I don't have an add-on filter.
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icandoitfaster
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2017, 07:33:52 PM » |
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Your description is exactly what I'm dealing with at the same temps. I'm planning a ride through Death Valley, into Arizona and back up through Utah this July. How can I stop vapor lock from happening?
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5761
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2017, 09:40:34 PM » |
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Verify if you still have the rubber flaps/matts on top of the motor. I think I still have mine from my wrecked IS.
I also have a spare petcock, but I've had it so long now, I can't remember if it needs a rebuild or I bought it to rebuild it.
Might be out for a ride tomorrow, let me know, and will try to go south for a coffee if you are up to a meet, and bring the petcock?
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« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 09:50:31 PM by gordonv »
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1999 Black with custom paint IS   |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2017, 10:15:20 PM » |
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It could well be vapor lock. I'm in Vegas and when the temps get hot (105*+) and I've been riding in stop and go traffic the fan will be on continuously. Soon thereafter, I start to get fuel starvation symptoms and the bike will ultimately stop running. Let it sit and cool a bit (10-15 min) and it comes back. I'm almost certain that it's fuel that has vaporized in the lines. It happened right after I rebuilt the petcock and I don't have an add-on filter.
Have you guys both got the air dam in place ? I know Vegas is almost as hot as we are, but I've never had this problem. I ride year round including up to 128*. Traffic isn't near as bad here as Vegas though. |
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98valk
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2017, 06:28:46 AM » |
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Verify if you still have the rubber flaps/matts on top of the motor. I think I still have mine from my wrecked IS.
anything on top of the motor besides the pair valves is not OEM. |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16781
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2017, 07:23:59 AM » |
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Verify if you still have the rubber flaps/matts on top of the motor. I think I still have mine from my wrecked IS.
anything on top of the motor besides the pair valves is not OEM. He's probably talking about the "air guide"... I had to look it up to call it the right thing. -Mike "those things inside the petcock are the flaps" |
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icandoitfaster
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2017, 09:20:15 AM » |
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Thanks for the offer Gord. I'll let you know what my mechanic says once he removes and checks out mine. I'm busy today and heading down into Washington for a ride tomorrow so I won't be home much this weekend. I'll touch base with you once I know more regarding my petcock. thanks again.
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98valk
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2017, 09:53:18 AM » |
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Verify if you still have the rubber flaps/matts on top of the motor. I think I still have mine from my wrecked IS.
anything on top of the motor besides the pair valves is not OEM. He's probably talking about the "air guide"... I had to look it up to call it the right thing. -Mike "those things inside the petcock are the flaps" that and the radiator plate, air guide. keep that hot air off the carbs. http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2000/GL1500CF+A/RADIATOR/parts.html |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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Gabriel
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2017, 12:11:00 PM » |
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I don't see how a hole in the vacuum side of the diaphragm would cause this problem only when it's hot, it would leak at other times also, of course you would have a rich or locked cylinder. It sounds like the ignition module may be overheating, if it was vapor lock, stopping would only make it worse, that's when the carbs really get a heat soak. I'm one of those who knows that having a fuel line lower than the fuel "T" is not a problem. My bike runs fine with the line almost on top of the transmission. But wait; those people who run a fuel shut-off valve are not having a problem, are they? Because all the pictures I've seen (which is not many) show that valve 'below' the fuel "T"! How is that possible? It's magic!  |
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98valk
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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2017, 01:37:35 PM » |
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I don't see how a hole in the vacuum side of the diaphragm would cause this problem only when it's hot, it would leak at other times also, of course you would have a rich or locked cylinder. It sounds like the ignition module may be overheating, if it was vapor lock, stopping would only make it worse, that's when the carbs really get a heat soak. I'm one of those who knows that having a fuel line lower than the fuel "T" is not a problem. My bike runs fine with the line almost on top of the transmission. But wait; those people who run a fuel shut-off valve are not having a problem, are they? Because all the pictures I've seen (which is not many) show that valve 'below' the fuel "T"! How is that possible? It's magic! head pressure from the tank. At WOT or lower tank level, good chance it can run out of fuel or run lean at WOT depending on the variable. lean at WOT can give a nice viewing window to the upper rod bearing. |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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Gabriel
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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2017, 01:43:37 PM » |
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Why does it work on mine and many others?
Final reply here;
I feel like I need a tetanus shot!
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sdv003
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2017, 07:27:38 PM » |
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Looks like everything is on my tourer.
I have to be in stop and go traffic for it to happen, like being down on the strip during the day. If I'm moving, things are just fine.
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2017, 07:35:56 PM » |
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Looks like everything is on my tourer.
I have to be in stop and go traffic for it to happen, like being down on the strip during the day. If I'm moving, things are just fine.
 That's probably it then. I rarely have more than 5 stop lights on my way home. |
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icandoitfaster
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« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2017, 05:07:55 PM » |
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Well guys, I took my girl into the shop again this morning and left all your comments with my mechanic. The bike was ready to go by the time I got off work. I won’t know if your suggestions worked until I get to some hotter weather but thanks anyway for the help. I believe we solved the problem.
He believes your suggestion regarding the fuel filter is correct. The previous owner had installed a fuel filter in between the tank and the T. Not only that, but he added more fuel line in the process. My tank was able to be lifted about 9 to 12 inches above the frame making it very easy to work on but meaning it had a crap load of extra line hanging down there. Mechanic removed the fuel filter and shortened the line so that it now runs straight down to the T. He believes your suggestion is spot on and that the adjustments will rectify the problem.
He also tested the petcock vacuum and said it worked properly.
Man I’m hoping this works. Can’t wait for July to come so I can take off for a month of touring around in Utah and Arizona.
Thank you all for your suggestions. This forum’s members are amazing…..good people and great advice.
cheers,
paul
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Harryc
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« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2017, 06:13:36 PM » |
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This forum’s members are amazing…..good people and great advice.
These guys 'are' amazing...like family. Glad you got it worked out. |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2017, 06:17:56 PM » |
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Well guys, I took my girl into the shop again this morning and left all your comments with my mechanic. The bike was ready to go by the time I got off work. I won’t know if your suggestions worked until I get to some hotter weather but thanks anyway for the help. I believe we solved the problem.
He believes your suggestion regarding the fuel filter is correct. The previous owner had installed a fuel filter in between the tank and the T. Not only that, but he added more fuel line in the process. My tank was able to be lifted about 9 to 12 inches above the frame making it very easy to work on but meaning it had a crap load of extra line hanging down there. Mechanic removed the fuel filter and shortened the line so that it now runs straight down to the T. He believes your suggestion is spot on and that the adjustments will rectify the problem.
He also tested the petcock vacuum and said it worked properly.
Man I’m hoping this works. Can’t wait for July to come so I can take off for a month of touring around in Utah and Arizona.
Thank you all for your suggestions. This forum’s members are amazing…..good people and great advice.
cheers,
paul
Be careful down here in July. It gets brutally hot. |
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fudgie
Member
Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2017, 06:29:03 PM » |
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Well guys, I took my girl into the shop again this morning and left all your comments with my mechanic. The bike was ready to go by the time I got off work. I won’t know if your suggestions worked until I get to some hotter weather but thanks anyway for the help. I believe we solved the problem.
He believes your suggestion regarding the fuel filter is correct. The previous owner had installed a fuel filter in between the tank and the T. Not only that, but he added more fuel line in the process. My tank was able to be lifted about 9 to 12 inches above the frame making it very easy to work on but meaning it had a crap load of extra line hanging down there. Mechanic removed the fuel filter and shortened the line so that it now runs straight down to the T. He believes your suggestion is spot on and that the adjustments will rectify the problem.
He also tested the petcock vacuum and said it worked properly.
Man I’m hoping this works. Can’t wait for July to come so I can take off for a month of touring around in Utah and Arizona.
Thank you all for your suggestions. This forum’s members are amazing…..good people and great advice.
cheers,
paul
Be careful down here in July. It gets brutally hot. Sure hope it 80 deg in early Aug when I hit the Grand Canyon.  |
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2017, 06:41:02 PM » |
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Well guys, I took my girl into the shop again this morning and left all your comments with my mechanic. The bike was ready to go by the time I got off work. I won’t know if your suggestions worked until I get to some hotter weather but thanks anyway for the help. I believe we solved the problem.
He believes your suggestion regarding the fuel filter is correct. The previous owner had installed a fuel filter in between the tank and the T. Not only that, but he added more fuel line in the process. My tank was able to be lifted about 9 to 12 inches above the frame making it very easy to work on but meaning it had a crap load of extra line hanging down there. Mechanic removed the fuel filter and shortened the line so that it now runs straight down to the T. He believes your suggestion is spot on and that the adjustments will rectify the problem.
He also tested the petcock vacuum and said it worked properly.
Man I’m hoping this works. Can’t wait for July to come so I can take off for a month of touring around in Utah and Arizona.
Thank you all for your suggestions. This forum’s members are amazing…..good people and great advice.
cheers,
paul
Be careful down here in July. It gets brutally hot. Sure hope it 80 deg in early Aug when I hit the Grand Canyon. The G.C. Is relatively mild. Some of the areas you've got to go thru to get there are a different story. From what I can remember about your route, I think the Monument Valley area might be the hottest. But, you never know. 2 days ago it was 100*, today it's 70*  Just remember, you can't have too much water. |
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icandoitfaster
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« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2017, 07:20:45 PM » |
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I remember riding through Death Valley a number of years ago in early July and the temp was 124 degrees. Now that is hot riding. Many of the days we spent in the Page, Monument Valley, Moab areas were consistently over 110 that year. It was definitely a warm one. I'm hoping for a little cooler this time round.
It was still an amazing trip......amazing scenery, great hot dry weather (no rain) and the stars at night were to die for!!! Can't wait!!!
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5761
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2017, 09:07:57 PM » |
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It was still an amazing trip......amazing scenery, great hot dry weather (no rain) and the stars at night were to die for!!! Can't wait!!!
Most likely one of the many reasons you both like the camping. Wish my wife would too. |
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 09:10:40 PM by gordonv »
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1999 Black with custom paint IS |
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falconbrother
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« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2017, 11:41:43 AM » |
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In the Harley big twin EVO world this would have been the ignition sensor ring. Engine gets hot, sensor stops working. Engine cools down, sensor starts working.
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98valk
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« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2017, 11:53:31 AM » |
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In the Harley big twin EVO world this would have been the ignition sensor ring. Engine gets hot, sensor stops working. Engine cools down, sensor starts working.
wow! is that HD's way to protect 1920 engine technology while running 80 mph on the hwy? |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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salty1
Member
Posts: 2359
"Flyka"
Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2017, 12:06:13 PM » |
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If you think the petcock is ok then you better check it properly. The vacuum side of the petcock should not leak down if vacuum is applied. Remove the tank and perform a flow test into a bucket while applying vacuum. This will tell you if the diaphragm is holding. I'll bet it isn't
That's where my money is. |
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Logged
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My rides: 1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A   |
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