New lift adapter doesn't look right

[Dale_K]

It seems that the lift adapter with only 2 mounting bolts is too complicated for me.  I've got it on but it doesn't look right.  The mounting bolts hang down a lot more than the picture in the instructions.

[Dale_K]

I got the bike in the air but the extra bolt length gets in the way of the Sears red jack pad.  



I'm not falling in love with this adapter.  I'm going to get out the grinder and cut off the bolts flush with the bottom of the adapter tubing.  Maybe I can make it work.

[hubcapsc]

That's looks like it might be MarkT's adapter... he sells them on ebay... he's
a site sponsor, and will probably see your post... if you think it is his, wait,
or ask him directly, before you get out the grinder...

-Mike "your headers don't have any rust on them "

[WintrSol]

I agree that it resembles Mark's adapter, but the one I have has the tabs that the bolts go through welded vertically, so the bolts go in from the sides - nothing below the steel tube frames. Unless he changed the design, that is.

[MarkT]

That's my adapter.  

This design change was applied to V 2.0 to mount the adapter by tightening bolts to pull it up tight to the bottom of the casing instead of bolts that go in sideways into the casting holes, then securing it by using shims to pull it down tight so it wouldn't rattle.

The bolts are the latest revision and I went to them to increase the strength, as I got reports that the welded L-bolts, some were failing in spite of my attempts to make them as strong as possible.  They weren't tempered but just welded.

I have installed the latest version of my adapter on my bikes, but not these new bolts which are released just recently.  The volume of sales on these adapters isn't sufficient to justify having L-bolts made, along with the tooling costs and volume required. So the L-bolts are made by cutting off the heads of standard bolts, and heating them with an acetylene torch to bend them 90°.  I can see what needs to happen now, is the threaded section needs to be cut off and the end thread chamfered.  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  

I might add, this revision is really trivial and insignificant.  At least to me - as I have the right tools, I can modify these L bolts to fit in seconds.  But didn't measure to see if their length would be an issue.

Maybe it would have been appropriate to contact me with your concern rather than blasting it out here.  I NEED such feedback to revise and improve my products, if I don't discover such issues myself.  You can PM me from here or even better, drop an email to valkstuff@horseapple.com, or call me at the number on every page of my website www.horseapple.com.  Or just use the contact info on the receipt and installation manual I included when you bought it.

Do you want me to send you a pair of revised L bolts, or do you want to DIY?

[Firefighter]

Mark,, never knew you had a lift adapter, I bought one years ago from somewhere advertised here but later installed a centerstand. Will your adapter fit with a centerstand?

[MarkT]

Mark,, never knew you had a lift adapter, I bought one years ago from somewhere advertised here but later installed a centerstand. Will your adapter fit with a centerstand?

Based on pictures I've seen, I think so but have not seen a Rivco stand in quite some time.  The pics sent to me, the stand wasn't deployed.  If you want to buy one and try it, I'll buy it back if it won't work.  And that will help us solve this question.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Mark,, never knew you had a lift adapter, I bought one years ago from somewhere advertised here but later installed a centerstand. Will your adapter fit with a centerstand?

I'm not trying to deter you from purchasing a lift adapter. But I don't need one with the center stand . I use a 1x4 on top of the left leg of the jack, slide the left leg under the center stand mount, and jack away. Very stable. 

[Steel cowboy]

I used blue lock tight and a rectangular piece of steel as a washer on the 2 front bolts. Then cut of the excess bolt that protrudes past the adapter.

[MarkT]

I'm always looking for improvements on my products - either myself or by suggestions.  Over the years there have been several dozen upgrades and added options to my exhausts. There were a few on the peg lowering adapters. There have been a handful on the new permanent lift adapter so far.  This latest one is, the L-bolt fasteners are now hot forged instead of welded.  And length adjusted for clearance is the latest.  Here's that mod as applied on my Jade:

[Dale_K]

I ground off the bolts today so that the adapter frame is the lowest part of the assembly.  I have a standard and I found the Sears red jack under the adapter makes for a front heavy balance.  That was with the Sears jack as far forward as possible without the adapter hanging over the forward pad of the jack.  It's usable.

I didn't like how the adapter sort of cantilevered at the rear like a diving board.  Especially on the left side there was about 1/4" of clearance above the adapter so that the weight was bending the left tube of the adapter upward.  I was worried about the bending action pulling down on the bent bolt and putting a strain on the engine casting where the bolt shaft goes into the dimple of the motor. 

On the right side there was a single point of contact at the rear of the right adapter tube at the bottom of the transmission.  I loosened the adapter and put some firm plastic spacers (about 1/8") between the right side of the adapter and the bottom of the motor.  On the left side I used a 1/4" thick section of a wooden paint stirrer to provide some support.  I don't know if any of this was really necessary but I was worried that all the weight of the bike was being concentrated at a couple of points.  It really feels very solid now.

[Steel cowboy]

Did you tie the bike to the Jack once you got it off the ground to the height you wanted. My interstate with more weight in the back only has one sweet spot on the adapter, more towards the front practically below the engine. I use ratchet straps around and thru the platform that rises up to the adapter

[MarkT]

The C.G. of the bike is just aft of the back of the engine case. It IS NOT front heavy with the jack in the forward position even on a standard when you remove the rear wheel - yes I've done that.  I measured it on two standards. THERE IS NO BENDING OF VERSION TWO WITH 11 GAUGE BOX TUBING. It is designed to be cantilevered.

With the back lift arm of the jack aft of the C.G. the amount of pull down force at the L-bolt mount points is really insignificant.  Also I could change the dimensions of the adapter to make the fwd support range extend more but I don't see a need for that and that has not been requested except here and I am discrediting your apparent bogus complaints (other than the long bolts).

 I have not seen a concern for pressure points, I don't see that even in your pictures here, and your adapter is the same as mine (at least on George, Jade has a belly tank).  I'll take a close look at George and see if I see an issue - but at this point what I see here is invalid complaints.  There has been no one who has concurred with your remarks (except the bending on V. 1 which was fixed with an immediate recall replaced by V. 2.0), while the adapter has been released for over two years.

Thanks a lot. Bogus complaints really encourage vendors like me to continue to support this bike, out of production now for 14 years. I am always quick to fix / support legit problems. Note there are very few of us left, most having moved on to other marques when the bike was dropped from the line.  My adapter is not a Rolex - if it was, it would be priced much higher.  It's rare for me to encounter one expecting a Rolex at a Timex price but it still happens.  Some cannot be pleased no matter what and I don't let that bother me as I know that fact.  However even the false critiques will hurt sales and if it does - well you can be proud you drove another vendor away from supporting the Valkyrie.

[Cracker Jack]

"Some cannot be pleased no matter what and I don't let that bother me as I know that fact."

It's pretty obvious it doesn't bother you in the least.

[davit]

.

[MarkT]

"Some cannot be pleased no matter what and I don't let that bother me as I know that fact."

It's pretty obvious it doesn't bother you in the least.

Really.  When I respond and correct legit problems immediately.  I'm talking about those who are only negative.  You know, those who do impressions of my ex.  For them, I consider the source and let them go their merry way - not gonna own their BS or fix their false issues.  Almost everybody in this club is not in that category - provided they are in the majority of our demographic.  It takes years to learn this lesson so more kids have the attitude than Baby Boomers.

[Bighead]

In the OP's original post It looks like he is jacking the bike from the stand side? he could be getting the Jack on the stand or stand mount causing his need for a spacer? I don't have one of Marks adapters but it mounts the same and have never had a problem with it unless I put the Jack in the wrong spot.
Just my speculation. Also have never heard anything negative about Mark or his work.

[Fazer]

There are a number of regular contributors here on the forum that in my mind, "know their stuff."  MarkT is one of them.  I don't have his lift adapter but I do own a set of his peg lowering brackets.  Great product.  I appreciate anyone who works to make these bikes better than they already are.

[Dale_K]

Normally I'd let this thread die but comparison to the ex is a low blow, lol.

I just took a couple of pictures in response to the comments.  First, it's true that the combination of the adapter and the Sears red jack produces a front heavy lift.  This is with the jack positioned as far forward as possible with the front jack pad fully under the adapter.  The front tire is still on the floor when these were taken.  It took another full pump on the jack to raise the bike high enough that the front tire would spin.

 


Here is a picture from the other side demonstrating the jack position.




Also visible is the piece of wood paint stirrer I inserted to provide some support at the rear of the adapter.  Without the wood there is no support until you reach the short area of fins about 1" to the right of the adapter mounting bolt threads.  That was the source of the "cantilevered like a diving board" phrase I used in an earlier post.  The piece of wood makes it pretty solid.

Below is the view from the right side of the bike.  This side wasn't cantilevered the way the left side was.  But at the rear of the adapter there was a single point of contact at the mating surface of the clutch cover and the main engine casting.  The front had better support than the left side too but I didn't like the way the weight was being carried so I put some spacers under the right side too.  Maybe they weren't needed but I felt better about the installation with them in place.



Now, I'm done with this thread.  Time to move on.

[MarkT]

The C.G. of the Valkyrie is AFT of the engine block where there is no structure to lift the bike but an open space.  This is WHY a lift adapter is needed.  It is not possible to lift the bike from underneath without some adapter that spans the CG. I have seen many exhaust systems that were BENT by the user lifting on the exhaust for want of a lift adapter.

You are not thinking this through.  What happens if you tip the back of the adapter down with your shims?   If your lift  picks up the back tire first - then the problem is not the adapter - it's with your shimming it.  With your wooden shims you have caused the lift to pick up the back end first. You tipped the adapter down to lift the rear first with that shim.  And then pass the buck blaming the adapter for lifting it "front-Heavy".

Where you positioned the jack in these pictures, most of the bike's weight is on the aft lift arm as that pad is very close to the CG of the bike.  With that position your lift is back-heavy, not front.

Again.  Whining in a public venue over your concerns rather than bringing any concerns you have to my attention privately does not inspire me to want to help you. In this case you are CAUSING the problem you are complaining about.

[indybobm]

After looking at the pictures from Dale_K, it looks like the pads are farther apart than other jacks. The rear pad needs to be moved forward from the side stand mount but cannot because the front pad is at the end of the jack adapter. That's just the way it is.
Mark, I think the verbal attack from you was totally uncalled for. Dale just asked a question about the product, he did not attack you. I think your response could have been better.

[MarkT]

You cannot see in his pic where the end of the adapter is.

I have two Craftsman jacks - they are the same dimensions as each other.  I assume his is the same.  That is, the outside edges of the lift pads are 13" wide.  The pads are 2 3/8" wide.  The Lift adapter is 15" long.  Allowing you can safely use 1 3/8" of overlap on the ends with the pad widths, that means there is not less than 4 3/4" of adjustment fore-aft to compensate for CG movement - allowing to remove either wheel when positioned appropriately.  Yes I can make it bigger if needed.  Per my tests, it's not needed, and no doubt that would draw more complaints "too big" - "too heavy" etc.

The adapter DOES NOT need to move forward in his pic.  The CG is near the back pad.  He has tipped his bike with the shims he added under the rear of the adapter.  He needs to remove them.  Those are UNAUTHORIZED MODS and voids his claim - and warranty if they were attached to the adapter.

WHAT verbal attack?  I am defending my product against his invalid criticism.  HIS is a verbal attack designed to hurt my product and sales.  That costs me money and discourages me from supporting this community.  I am about to do another product run on this but now I am going to downsize that run.

Re-read his complaint, look at the pics.  The problem of this being a "forward-heavy" lift adapter HE HAS CAUSED with his wooden shims by pushing the rear of the adapter down - then blamed the adapter.  Yes my response is appropriate.\

Anymore most of the time I use a BlackWidow scissors jack on a table lift on my bikes. Here in the shop. That's often with the front wheel clamp in use.  With that style jack I can lift either end or the whole bike while it's on the table lift. Convenient too, just spin it up or down in seconds with a DeWalt drill. I wouldn't want the lift adapter to be any other size for that use. I also stick this adapter on any customer Valks I work on here in the shop - quick to install, very solid on the lift. The Sears jack lifts it just fine so I don't get why on the complaints. That of course is the intention - to be able to lift it with a standard bike lift on the road.

This is the same lift adapter on George.  None of the problems Dale talks about.

[MarkT]

OK you inspired me to prove it.  Here's one of the Craftsman jacks on my Snap-On table lift, lifting Jade with the jack in the fwd position first, then the back position.  Note the lifts are as I said - fwd position lifts the front wheel more, back position lifts the rear more.  In the middle lifts them equally though I didn't illustrate that (but can for any doubters.)   Like I said, Dale is wrong, the lift operates as I said and he has caused his own problems.







And now the back position:

[davit]

OK you inspired me to prove it.  Here's one of the Craftsman jacks on my Snap-On table lift, lifting Jade with the jack in the fwd position first, then the back position.  Note the lifts are as I said - fwd position lifts the front wheel more, back position lifts the rear more.  In the middle lifts them equally though I didn't illustrate that (but can for any doubters.)   Like I said, Dale is wrong, the lift operates as I said and he has caused his own problems.

Mark:  I, along with I am sure every member of this forum, appreciate your developing and manufacturing products for our aging Valks, but with all due respect Dale's bike looks stock while the rear of yours has an after market seat, exhaust and car tire. 

[MarkT]

Also it's green.  With fwd controls. And no alternator cover.

[Kunkies]

A logical alternative. . .

$50 USD

No brainer.  I've used this jack adapter for years, never an issue
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALKYRIE-HONDA-LIFT-JACK-ADAPTER-NEW-1-MUST-HAVE-MOTORCYCLE-ITEM-Save-/170943480226

[bill-jr]

I have the "old" style adaptor from mark t and it works great has for yrs now

[bill-jr]

A logical alternative. . .

$50 USD

No brainer.  I've used this jack adapter for years, never an issue
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALKYRIE-HONDA-LIFT-JACK-ADAPTER-NEW-1-MUST-HAVE-MOTORCYCLE-ITEM-Save-/170943480226

Also a great lift option,
also another member here,
have this one on my other valk

[hubcapsc]

A logical alternative. . .

$50 USD

No brainer.  I've used this jack adapter for years, never an issue
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALKYRIE-HONDA-LIFT-JACK-ADAPTER-NEW-1-MUST-HAVE-MOTORCYCLE-ITEM-Save-/170943480226

There's a big issue with that one that some people ignore... if you're not real
careful, you could be jacking your bike up on the headers. I use that one,
see the slip of paper that kind of looks like it is sticking out from under
the footpeg?... it is my gauge to make sure that the header isn't touching
the lift fork. I span the lift forks with a 1-by now, and there's no header-lift
worry anymore.



-Mike

[Fazer]

Mike--I have that adapter as well.  I am careful when positioning under the bike as the the left side headers will touch.  Right side seem to clear. 

Must confess, I am OK with this adapter, but would have bought Mark's had I known better at the time.

Greg

[hubcapsc]

Mike--I have that adapter as well.  I am careful when positioning under the bike as the the left side headers will touch.  Right side seem to clear. 

Must confess, I am OK with this adapter, but would have bought Mark's had I known better at the time.

Greg

I feel the same. I need a "stays on bike" adapter, since I've proved twice
that I'm too stoopid to always remember to take the other kind off...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

I built a wood one (off the old link for them) over ten years ago, and used it a hundred times and never had a problem.  It's old and cruddy and the energizer bunny. 

Total cost was a buck, two ninety-eight. 

Really the only problem I ever had was yanking the rear wheel, pumpkin, shaft (and everything), and without thinking ahead, have the bike suddenly get real light in back and start to tip forward.  After that, I used a jack stand under a front guard, and that was that.

[doc/joshthetank]

Mark,, never knew you had a lift adapter, I bought one years ago from somewhere advertised here but later installed a centerstand. Will your adapter fit with a centerstand?

Based on pictures I've seen, I think so but have not seen a Rivco stand in quite some time.  The pics sent to me, the stand wasn't deployed.  If you want to buy one and try it, I'll buy it back if it won't work.  And that will help us solve this question.

Hey I just won the Mark T lift adapter at inzane this year. I have a rivco center stand on my bike and I just put the new lift adapter on. It works great I’m happy with the quality of it and I think it was a very simple installation. I even did it while the bike was piping hot no problems. So far this is a quick easy and well built product!