At times deader than a door knob

[Kilroy]

Wondering if anyone is having the same issue that I am having right now.  Every so often, for no apparent reason, when I go to start the bike I get nothing.  All the lights on the display work, the kick stand is up, clutch in and maybe in neutral.. I get nothing, crickets!! No sound what so ever.   I push the buttons, move her back and forth and after a bit starts right up, runs like a champ.  So far I have not been stranded.

Today I noticed that I can hear the fuel pump when I turn the key on.   When I hear that sound she will start.  If I do not hear that sound she will NOT start.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?  My guess it has something to do with the fuel pump or a relay that might be there.

Appreciate any ideas or thoughts on what I need to do to correct this.  Thanks for your help.

2014 Goldwing Valkyrie.

Kilroy

[idcrewdawg]

Likely your kill switch is got a bad connection. If you're good with that kind of thing, disassemble, put electrical lube in the switch reassemble. If not, take it to the dealer and have them do the same. My headlight switch was doing it, similar switch different function, and had it fixed as I'm not good with the electrical stuff. Works like a champ now.

[goldstar903]

Yup, kill switch! Several owners, as well as my self, noticed that if you happen to bump the kill switch the bike would quit running. Very sensitive. Honda switches apparently aren't the best. 

[bscrive]

Yup, mine did it yesterday.  Played with the kill switch and it started up.

[Robert]

I would also say kill switch, it and all the switches need to be lubricated with a anti corrosion spray. I do this about once a month. The two products that seem to hold up best are the CRC Marine corrosion inhibitor or Fluid Film. Spray work them for a minute and you should be good to go. I disconnected my kill switch since I have never used it and didnt want an issue.

 Just a note also make sure you are not putting the thing in accessory position also, which is easy to do. I have done it a few times and it's really easy to do and it has the same results. 

[Bill Havins]

So, Robert (et. al.), are we dealing with an issue of contact corrosion, or a simple "mechanical" issue (i.e., the "leaves" of the switch just don't make contact)?  I have gone through the schematics in the Service Manual and the Kill Switch just completes a circuit that keys a relay when the starter switch is depressed.  So there is really not a lot of current flowing through the circuit, just enough to key the ignition relay (I'll look at the schematic closer some other time).

The reason I mention "current" is this.  When switches are used to control high current loads the contacts "arc" each time the switch is opened or closed.  This arcing leads to contact "pitting" which, over time, increases the resistance at the point where the contacts touch.  As resistance increases the contacts do not pass enough current for the circuit to function and you get the "deader-than-a-doorknob" condition.

Corrosion or "oxidation" (the copper/brass analog to "rusting") can lead to the same "high resistance" issue as described above.

In the early 1970's I worked in the broadcast industry.  We used many, many sensitive multi-contact switches and relays.  Once a month we had to go through and carefully clean and adjust each of the contact pairs in each of the switches and relays.  We used "contact files" (little reeds coated with diamond powder abrasive) and specially shaped hooks that allowed us to carefully "bend" contacts to ensure the gaps between pairs of contacts were just right (like adjusting the gap on a spark plug).

I haven't been inside the switches on my Honda....yet.  Really don't want to go there.  But, as I type this, I've begun to consider that the issue is a combination of both corrosion and the mechanical gaps between the contacts.  For corrosion there is nothing better than the Deoxit line of products.  The CRC stuff you find at Home Depot is okay; I use Deoxit.

Do not use dielectric grease. No, No, No!  It eventually begins to harden in parts of the gap and/or on the contacts and keeps them from closing the circuit.

As far as adjusting the gaps of the contacts are concerned....heavy sigh.

Boy, I went off on a rant, didn't I?  So which is it, Robert?  Corrosion, gap, or both?  I'll begin to steel myself for doing the job when the time comes.

Bill

[allhans4]

This happened to me when picking up the bike after having the tires changed.......at a Honda dealership!

After we tried all the typical things, he looked at me and said "I have no idea."

Then it started up and that was it. Weird.

[st2sam]

Yup, kill switch! Several owners, as well as my self, noticed that if you happen to bump the kill switch the bike would quit running. Very sensitive.

Yep, and now I won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Some guys like to use the kill switch, why I don't know. I use the key, always have.
Back in the old days we were taught it was there in case you crashed and couldn't reach the key.

[Robert]

Boy, I went off on a rant, didn't I?  So which is it, Robert?  Corrosion, gap, or both?  I'll begin to steel myself for doing the job when the time comes.

Bill

Loved your post must be the technical in me but I was right there with you, I could hear myself saying if I was him I would be thinking, dam, again? I have the diamond files and know exactly what you are talking about although thankfully I have never had to clean that many switches.

Its really a compound problem, the switches are pos, the design of the switches is really poor. They are not sealed totally open and it lets dirt and corrosion build up on the contacts that just have enough pressure to work. They don't even design them with the idea of water run off but some are positioned and designed so that the water actually sits in the switch. If its the dirt that allows corrosion or the corrosion that allows the dirt its like the chicken or the egg. Water will without a doubt hit the switches any time its a bit wet. But Either way a bit of corrosion spray and working the switches seem to make them work ok. I was concerned enough about the bike cutting out and the switches having problems that I disconnected my cutout switch.

  On my 1500 the headlight switch and the starter switch just have enough material and strength to work. The 1800 is the same poor design and if you put any more of a load on them they fail. The switches are actually plastic and the only metal is the contacts that are small slides clamped on to the plastic. If you put to much load on them the plastic melts allows the slide to melt into the plastic and the switch looses contact. I don't even remember there being springs between the metal and the plastic its just a tight fit and relies on the plastics integrity to make contact and keep contact. I actually put relays in and took the load off the contacts when I put in brighter headlights on the 1500. I can tell you the engine cutoff switch is made the same way and the wires look like 18 gauge. Now there is not much power going through these switches on the 1800 but it doesn't matter the way they are made is a recipe for failure.

It really doesn't matter to much if you use the switch or not either. The reason being is once enough corrosion builds up on the contacts it will push them apart effectively shutting off the bike. If you undo the 2 screws in the bottom of the switch housings you can see the switches that are not sold separately and are really part of the switch housings. They are not made to really come apart and for most you wouldn't care and have access to the contacts by just removing the switch housings.
 

[hungryeye]

I have two 2 cent suggestions, 1. never use the kill switch......2.check battery cables at battery and frame. If that ain't it do what those guys said.

[goldstar903]

Deoxit is the best. I use it on all my stereo components. 

[Robert]

Deoxit is the best. I use it on all my stereo components. 

Have to try that stuff thanks Bill and Goldstar.  Does it protect against rewetting?

[Bill Havins]

Robert, here's a link to the manufacturer's web site: http://caig.com

This stuff is pretty big but "under the radar."  One of the Moto Guzzi guys is an engineer with CREE (the led folks).  He swears by the stuff.

You'll find some versions of it at Guitar Center (think volume and tone controls - potentiometers).  Also great in cleaning "fixed step" gain controls (1 db per step, etc.).

I keep a variety on hand in tiny 1.5 oz. tubes.  Just a drop-or-three and you're good to go.

Now, in Florida, every time the wind blows you're exposed to SALT - ugh!  Read up on the Caig.com site.  Perhaps they'll offer some insight about what might work best in marine (submarine?) environments.

Bill