REAR Tire options

[Curly]

Dear VF members. Here in the Philippines I am going to have to wait 3 months for a Metzeler (ME880) Marathon Rear tire (180/70-R)16 at a cost to import of (wait for it)… $700 ouch!!

The bike currently runs Metzeler Front/Rear and the bike feels good. But at 700 bucks - there has got to be an alternative surely? I note that some owners have 'dark side' rubber - which I assume are car tires of some sort? Running different PSI's? Anyway, as a newbie my question is:

Do I have an alternative option for tires/pressures that is "acceptable". If so, what should I be thinking….

I guess if safety/comfort is sacrificed then I have no alternative than to stick with importing Metzeler - but at THAT cost - There's got to be an alternative for me surely?

FYI. I own a standard 1998 F6.

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Dark side 205 60 16...$75

[The emperor has no clothes]

There are tons of options for you. 205/60/16, 205/65, 205/55, 195/60. All car tires.

[Curly]

Guys - I really appreciate this. I know we are ALL on a budget of some kind - and I am no different.

I see 'chatter' about "rounded edges" as opposed to "square" which makes sense. With a standard 1998 Valk, I don't want to Mod the rear end - so I assume these suggestions would 'fit' nicely at the rear without any problems?

2. I ride in a HOT climate (Philippines) and Yep - When it rains - IT POORS! Any recommended tire pattern or tips on what I should be looking for in a good "dark side" all-rounder?

As always - any input is greatly appreciated (and will save me a small fortune!!) 

[Jess from VA]

In addition, you are trying to choose a car tire that has a rounded edge (as much as possible).  I mean, they're all square, but some have more rounded edges than others.

Car tires also have symmetrical and asymmetrical tread patterns, and symmetric tread is preferable. (though this may not be as big an issue as originally thought)

And for most car tires, you need to cut out the rear fender nut cages (maybe not for a 195, dunno).
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html

And get rid of the rubber valve stems (with elbows) and put in 90* metal stems.  

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Search dark side tire,youll see YouTube videos with the camera mounted under the bike.Braking is tremendous,and handling in the rain becomes super stable.

[Firefighter]

You can find a lot of tire advise on this site but make sure if you choose to go dark side that you choose a tire that has a rounded edge not a squared up edge. The more rounded the more like a motorcycle tire. Wet and dry traction, braking is better than a MC tire, and tire mileage is great. What type of roads do you ride, smooth or ? Car tires especially square ones will cause you some grief at slow speed on uneven surface, smooth roads you cannot tell the difference.

With some tires you will need to do a nut cage modification under the rear fender, which is simple. Also if you haven't done so, get rid of the oem rubber valve stems and go with metal valve stems. Let us know so we can help!

[DeathWishBikerDude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwSSXHanpv0

[Curly]

OK, I've read-up and watched the YT Video. All good so far. One thing…

Re. Rear fender Nut Cage Mod. After looking under bike, it seems the nut cage(s) cover the nuts/bolts that go through the fender and out to mount the Saddle Bags to the bike. Is it sufficient to remove the nut cages - or is it a case of replacing nuts/bolts with something with a more flat footprint that doesnt protrude much under the fender?

PLUS.01: Can anyone send a link for the 90* Steel Valve stem replacement? I will have to import here to the Philippines etc..

PLUS.02: How do I upload an image? (duh!) When I try to "add image" it just inserts the blank [/img] tag?

[Jess from VA]

Most of us just cut the cages off and reuse the same bolts, outside in, with the same big square nut, or a smaller hex nut (this is easiest).  Some guys have used carriage bolts (round heads), inside out, then acorn nuts to cover the threads on the outside.

There are hundreds of metal valve stem sellers.  The ninety degree come with tightening nuts on the inside, or outside (better, obviously).  They are probably all made in China, which is somewhat closer to you.

https://www.jakewilson.com/p/1753/19082/Myers-90%C2%B0-Tubeless-Chrome-Valve-Stem?s=162103&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgtXk_dKK1gIVFFgNCh3SmAJMEAQYASABEgKFY_D_BwE

[Curly]

Most of us just cut the cages off and reuse the same bolts, outside in, with the same big square nut, or a smaller hex nut (this is easiest).  Some guys have used carriage bolts (round heads), inside out, then acorn nuts to cover the threads on the outside.

There are hundreds of metal valve stem sellers.  The ninety degree come with tightening nuts on the inside, or outside (better, obviously).  They are probably all made in China, which is somewhat closer to you.

https://www.jakewilson.com/p/1753/19082/Myers-90%C2%B0-Tubeless-Chrome-Valve-Stem?s=162103&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgtXk_dKK1gIVFFgNCh3SmAJMEAQYASABEgKFY_D_BwE

Thank you for the "heads-up". I appreciate I can probably order something online - but for the sake of "accuracy" I wanted to ensure I was on the same page as everyone else. Now I'm happy that I am - I can go ahead and order online. It takes up to 2 months to get anything here - so I didn't want to order the wrong stuff (obviously!!)

[DeathWishBikerDude]

The nut invaded in the cage is removable,replace with a standard nut and washer.I prefer short straight valve stems..

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Use a hosting site like tinypic,copy and paste the link between the IMG tags.

[Curly]

You can find a lot of tire advise on this site but make sure if you choose to go dark side that you choose a tire that has a rounded edge not a squared up edge. The more rounded the more like a motorcycle tire. Wet and dry traction, braking is better than a MC tire, and tire mileage is great. What type of roads do you ride, smooth or ? Car tires especially square ones will cause you some grief at slow speed on uneven surface, smooth roads you cannot tell the difference.

With some tires you will need to do a nut cage modification under the rear fender, which is simple. Also if you haven't done so, get rid of the oem rubber valve stems and go with metal valve stems. Let us know so we can help!

In a non-third world country I might have MANY options - but the Philippines is still in the dark ages when it comes to tires (like almost everything else here )  Anyway, I have a couple of possible options. Yokohama have a plant here, so they are easier to source, but I have two options for 205/60R/16 tires (no 65R's available). I wonder if someone could take a look at these two and offer an opinion as to which would 'seem' a better bet?

1: https://www.goodyear.com.ph/tyres/goodyear-assurance-triplemax
2: http://www.yokohamatire.ph/products/pcr/bluearth-ace/

FYI, The Goodyear is V rated, the Yokohama is W rated.

I know tires are very 'subjective' but with limited choice I guess either one of these would do (if one or the other is unavailable) - unless anyone here says NO NO NO!!! 

[Curly]

Here's the pic I took under the rear fender. I'm sure I am looking at the nut cage referred to in the Mod. Yes?

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Yes,remove it and grind or file it down smooth.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Man, your selection of tires are limited over there. Either of those you posted will work. Were it me, I'd go with the Yokohama.
Here is a link to doing the nutcage.
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html

[Jess from VA]

While the link for removing the nutcages shows the fender off the bike, I just removed the tire (up on the jack) and slid up under the bike and did the work.

Of those two tires, I also think the Yokahama looks best.

[Ken Tarver]

Curly
I use the Yokohama Envigor tire on 2 valks.
Well pleased with the Yoko.
Rounded shoulders and directional tread pattern.

Ken

[98valk]

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,90637.0.html

[gordonv]

Magandang umaga. Kamusta ka?

I don't think anyone has actually answered the same way yet.

Darkside (DS) is the term used for placing a car tire (CT) onto a motorcycle. Double DS is when you take a motorcycle (MC) rear tire and mount it on the front of the bike.

The OEM MC tire size is equivalent to a 205/60-16. People also use a 205/55 or 205/65. The 55% is a smaller diameter, and the 65% is a larger diameter.

The Goodyear Assurance Triple tread used to be the tire of choice. Now the Auston Taxi tire is, which is supposedly rated as a 175/80-16. It is closer to the 205/65 in diameter, larger even, so rpms go down.

Also, a softer rubber, like on a snow tire, is recommended. But in the Philippians, I don't know how you might find one, except if they make and ship from there.

I went from a MC tire, to the Auston, and felt it was just like a MC tire, beautiful. Then sold the bike and the new one had a CT and it was very flat with square corners. HATED it! But 2 weeks later, didn't notice it any more, except on slow speeds in a parking lot. Now I've an Auston CT again, waiting to be mounted on my Valkyrie. Nice rounder corners.

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Just mounted a general tire exclaim,205 60 16.
V rated
$75 at wally world.

[gregk]

I've always selected my own tire except once an felt I done a good job and have over 100,000m on car tires. Now I'm trying out a general altima rt43 .

[Curly]

[/img]

Just wanted to say a BIG thank you for all your timely help. Managed to get a Yokohama 205/65/16 darkside for the rear. Fitted by a local friend of mine. Thank you for the Nut Cage Mod info. I did this and replaced the bolts holding the saddlebags with similar ones with shallower heads (bolts reversed). Clearance seems to be OK. I will report back when I've done some miles on her..
Again, my sincerest thanks to all who gave advice - without which I would have been buggered!
Stay safe.
Curly

[Curly]

As an update. I've now ridden 300 miles on highway, mountain twisties and city traffic. There is a noticeable drop of 300RPM with the 205/65 as per other members' experiences. PSI is 38, which feels fine and the bike feels psychologically more grippy.

The CT feels a little like riding in a grove at very low speeds - but nothing I won't get familiar with.

OEM Rear shocks were udjusted up from 3 to 4.
So far so good.
Thanks again for all the helpful input.

[MarkT]

Just an addendum, since you have your soln - but others read this too.

I have ridden several different darkside tires including 2 different Yokos and the badly behaved GYTT, and Vredestein and Michelin  - all of which were 205mm wide.  To get behavior more like a bike tire - look for a rounded profile on the corners - but also the wider you go, the worse the behavior in ruts / slow speeds. 205 tires are popular - I think for the look, and wide tires being stylish in recent years.  But the Austone Taxi Tire at 175mm is significantly better behaved than the 205 tires. It's also originally out of Australia (named from AUSTralia # ONE) - they may still make them there.  Also from China. They are a part of Cooper tires now, IIRC.  I really like this tire - besides the usual great traction, durability and better handling (no bump steer, doesn't follow ruts much), it's larger in diameter so 3500rpm delivers 85mph indicated while still getting 34mpg. I just ordered another one.  I have 17,000 miles on Jade's ATT and looks like it's good for around another 5,000. Looks like there are at least a couple sources online - google it.  

I've seen a couple reports on bad handling at very high speeds - triple digits.  Not a problem for me, I don't go there anymore.  I do get close to 100 sometimes in a pass, even pulling a trailer -  handling still the same, no discrepancies.  It's 6-ply rated; pressure limit 55#; load rated max 1653#.  The speed rating is Q, which is 99mph.  I've settled on 43# as my preferred pressure, having started out at 34# with squishy handling.  Reportedly the tire likes higher pressures and I concur - handling is great at 43#.

The new ATT just arrived.  Just for S&G I took some measurements and crunched the numbers.  There's 3.46mm (4.4/32) left on the old tire.  The new one has 8.82mm (that's 11/32). That's 5.36mm used in 17,395 miles.  If I run the old tire until bald, at that rate it will be bald at 28,624 miles. (I'll change it before bald)  I'm good with that life, for a tire that cost $185.87 delivered and performs as it does.

[Curly]

After a great deal more riding on this Yokohama tire, it's very good once you have some momentum. However, the bike does seem to have a mind of its own in slow traffic and when manoeuvring on uneven surfaces - much more than with the old MC rear tire. I have even had a couple of instances where I nearly dropped the bike as it felt like it was 'lurching' to one side when sat on the bike and moving it with feet.. This got me thinking...

PSI is 38. Some darkside users say that's in the 'sweet spot' - some say they run at 43-46. I'm thinking the higher pressure might round-out the tire more - but may also cause excessive centre tire wear? The ATT tire seems to be a completely different beast - so my question is...

For a standard CT (205/60 or 205/65) rear - what have other darksiders found is a good PSI for them? It seems logical that over-inflation might help round the tire - but if it's like riding on concrete - that's not going to be any fun? I know, I know - this is a very subjective question - but I am interested in hearing what other darksiders settled on.....?

[The emperor has no clothes]

After a great deal more riding on this Yokohama tire, it's very good once you have some momentum. However, the bike does seem to have a mind of its own in slow traffic and when manoeuvring on uneven surfaces - much more than with the old MC rear tire. I have even had a couple of instances where I nearly dropped the bike as it felt like it was 'lurching' to one side when sat on the bike and moving it with feet.. This got me thinking...

PSI is 38. Some darkside users say that's in the 'sweet spot' - some say they run at 43-46. I'm thinking the higher pressure might round-out the tire more - but may also cause excessive centre tire wear? The ATT tire seems to be a completely different beast - so my question is...

For a standard CT (205/60 or 205/65) rear - what have other darksiders found is a good PSI for them? It seems logical that over-inflation might help round the tire - but if it's like riding on concrete - that's not going to be any fun? I know, I know - this is a very subjective question - but I am interested in hearing what other darksiders settled on.....?

It seems counter intuitive, but higher pressures worsen the slow speed handling of the car tires. With a little lower pressure it will conform to the uneven surfaces better. The problem is too low and you'll get squirrelly handling at high speeds. It's always going to have the awkward slow speed handling issues, but you will get used to it fairly quickly. I've run my car tires anywhere from 30 to 38 psi. Every tire, bike combo is different. Try 32 psi and see how it feels.

[jmann]

I run my yoko at 36# and experience no low speed issues at all. I find it to be very mc tire like. I may try the att when this one wears out just to have a comparison. This is my 3rd yoko. 75 bucks to my door.