clutch problem--need elp

[garyheskett All 49 x 3 st.louis]

97 Standard, 186,750 miles.. Replaced the clutch at 137,000 miles a couple years ago (dampner plate sheared rivets) with JoeValk  (Joe Hummer) doing most of the work. Replaced all of the clutch plates etc. at that time cause I ain't a mechanic and thought it was the wise thing to do. Joe is a great guy and he only lives a few miles from me, I'm lucky. Everything worked great till I was coming home from Biketoberfest in October. On the way home in Georgia (a long way from St. Louis), when I would pull in the clutch lever I got a light growling noise that sounded like it came from under the front of the gas tank. I could also feel a slight pulsing in the clutch lever. Made it home and asked a very experienced long time motorcycle mechanic what the problem was. He said right away "throw out bearing". Asked several other opinions and everybody said "throw out bearing". One opinion was the slave cylinder. Took several weeks to get the parts from Pro Caliber, but I got a new throw out bearing and  new slave cylinder.  Took me several days to put in the new throw out bearing and slave cylinder (the alternator was a bitch to get out, went in in 5-10 minutes}.Got it all back together and went out yesterday on the bike and I have the same problem. Makes a light growling noise and slight pulsing in the lever as before.  So....what do you Valk  experts think is the problem. The bike runs fine, shifts fine, but it makes the slight noise, it never did that in the first 186,000 miles.

[98valk]

A light rumble from the clutch area when idling (which goes away when you depress the clutch lever) is normal, I have had this on my two new 1500's as well as a seven year-old one!

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/used1500.htm


OR

are u sure its not the alternator?  just recently took mine apart at 52k just to clean and check the brushes, and found the rear bearing was not the way it should be. replaced with one from NAPA which is actually designed for alternators. OEM bearing couldn't find anything special about it per the part #.

None of the alternator problems of previous Wings although the bearings can wear out which gives a peculiar wobbling sound and/or vibration when you rev the engine to around 2500rpm. If left unattended the back plate on the alternator will wear and have to be scrapped. It pays to replace the bearing early, before it starts spinning in the cover. It's a doddle to remove the alternator so no excuses for letting it fall apart. The rubber damper blocks in the engine that the alternator slots into can also wear or break up and this results in the same wobbling/vibration. Also it's worth noting that after Honda stopped producing alternators in Japan during 1996 and started having them made in China instead, the quality suffered. This is down to the inferior wiring used in the China made units and is another victory for the bean-counters at the expense of the customer. Many later GL1500 and GL1800 alternators have been know to fail suddenly, even when quite new and with low mileage. I've seen one on a new (in 2000) GL1500SE fail within a week and only 26 miles.
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/used1500.htm

[garyheskett All 49 x 3 st.louis]

No noise except when I pull in the clutch lever. As I let the clutch lever out, I can feel slight pulsing in the lever. So, when the motor is running, there is no noise at all, only when I pull in the clutch lever. The alternator was replaced at 135,000 miles with a (used) newer one with far less mileage on it.

[indybobm]

Other people have had this problem, when I read his post i bookmarked it for future reference.

It has to due to the combined thickness of the clutch discs. This is the link for the original post:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,68819.0.html

These are the comments that are pertinent to the problem by the original poster, wisconsinvalk:

Excerpts from post:
wisconsinvalk
Clutch Noise 1997 Valk
« on: June 12, 2014, 09:21:22 AM »    Quote

I have a 1997 Valk with clutch noise when you pull clutch handle in, grinding and growling sound goes away when you drop in gear or release clutch handle. Changed entire clutch Basket with lifter and bearing. Noise still persist sounds bad like gear clash or something grinding can feel pulses in clutch handle when pulling it in. help!!

wisconsinvalk
Re: Clutch Noise 1997 Valk
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2014, 06:10:07 PM »    Quote

Clutch does make noise when you disengage or pull handle in, never did it before a long ride I took? Clutch works fine but when you pull clutch handle in (disengage) there is shudder vibe in clutch handle and noise from trans, goes away when you drop into gear or when cruising down the road locked up in gear, I rode it 3 hours home and had no problem just sounds loud at lights and when stopped with clutch disengaged in neutral, bike never did it before I took a 3 hour ride? Sounds like you guys think it is normal? seams weird to me.

wisconsinvalk
Re: Clutch Noise 1997 Valk
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 07:48:14 PM »    Quote

Exactly like a bad throwout bearing! Thanks for nailing description but it has all been replaced with new parts, noise is the same as old parts, when clutch is out if you push in and spin input shaft to trans by hand it sound the same as when it is running with clutch disengaged, you can feel it through the input shaft, feels like gears are touching or rubbing deep in trans? Honda dealer said shaft floats in there and is not retained except by the nut on the clutch hub? feels like to much end play on the input shaft of trans? But Honda dealer says no way to change that? Help, please someone has got to have an answer, I am afraid to ride on long trips this way.

wisconsinvalk
Re: Clutch Noise 1997 Valk
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 10:18:01 AM »    Quote

 I found the problem, input shaft end play was the issue.  However, the reason the noise was there was  "clutch pack tolerance stack up"  The pack was slightly worn not enough to slip but enough to cause gear clash deep in the transmission when the clutch was disengaged and the pack was pushed inward causing the input shaft to shift deep in the trans.  A new set of clutch disks solved the problem, they were 3 thousands of an inch thicker than the worn ones, total stack up difference of 24 thousands on an inch. That difference prevents the gear clash and the bike is quiet when the clutch is disengaged.  Note the old clutch disks were well within factory spec in the manual. So the summary is when the bikes make this noise replace clutch pack.

[garyheskett All 49 x 3 st.louis]

Thanks for that post Indybobm.  I read that several times.  Sounds like he solved his problem. My clutch pack was replaced about 50,000 miles ago, because the dampner plate sheared some rivets.
I replaced the clutch plates with Honda parts.
My question now is,  should I use Honda parts again or use other clutch parts?

[indybobm]

While the above explanation can explain the gear noise, there might be other things that can cause this.
What wisconsinvalk calles the ‘Input’ shaft is actually the  ‘Main’ shaft. The main shaft extends from the front of the engine to the rear. The rear part of the main shaft is splined for the Clutch Center (the part that holds the discs). The Primary Drive Gear Boss Slides onto the rear of the Main Shaft. The Primary Drive Gear Boss is like a splined sleeve that accepts the Primary Driven Gear followed by the Clutch Outer (Basket), a thick spacer and the 40mm lock nut.

The gear grinding noise can be caused when the tolerance stackup of the clutch pack is such that the overall depth of the clutch pack is less than nominal. All clutch discs will vary in thickness. Ideally the thicker ones will cancel out eh thinner ones. It might be possible to end up with too many thin discs that results in the stackup problem.

Another reason for this problem could be caused by a improperly machined Primary Drive Gear Boss, Primary Driven Gear, or the Clutch Outer itself.

It might take an ‘AtticRat’ type person to sort this out.

[garyheskett All 49 x 3 st.louis]

Thanks again Indybobm for your last post.  I ain't a mechanic by any means. I would hate to replace the clutch plates etc and still not have solved the problem.  When you talk about the "shaft" and the various parts, I'm thinking this is beyond me.  But hey, I'm retired and got all the time in the world! I didn't have any parts left over replacing the lifter bearing or the slave cylinder. I did take out the alternator and center cover, both were a real pain in the ass to get out, but taking the center cover off made the alternator easier. Couldn't get the bank angle sensor back on the center cover, but I zip tied that for a temporary fix.