New progressive 444’s

[bill-jr]

I got the 444-4057 as mark t suggested to me ....
Im having trouble on installing them the top shock bushing is much smaller then the original and the hardware included isnt what i need what am i missing .....

These are the parts provided and dont work obviously....
I remember talk of shaving something down but none of this can be shaved down to fit anything.......
Seems like the top could slide on without anything but the bushing but that dont seem right ????

[bentwrench]

It's been several years since I put them on mine.If I remember the uppers don't need any sleeves and the lower ones had a 12 mm id sleeve on the left 10mm sleeve on the right.I think the lower sleeve just need to match the bolt od.

[hubcapsc]

Seems like the top could slide on without anything but the bushing but that dont seem right ????

My 440s came with a bag of bushings, I put the right ones in
that made the 440's fit on my bike... so maybe what you've got
there on the top is right...

Don't the OEMs just have a shock-eye with a rubber bushing in them?

-Mike

[Itinifni]

I just installed my 444s last weekend, I used the 4213s, Progressive lists them for the Triumph Rocket 3 but they fit the specs I wanted along with the 1365 springs.

The ID of the top bushings on the Progressives was identical to the ID of the stock shock upper bushings (except the OEM shock bushings were a bit worn). Nothing but the bushing on the upper mounts of either shock.
The width of the upper bushings on the Progressives was 21mm but the OEM were at 20mm. Again may have been that the originals were somewhat compressed from age/use.

At any rate the upper bushings used no inserts and mounted without any problem.



Mine came with these inserts, 10, 12 and 14mm ID.



Interestingly the 12 and 14mm inserts were 20mm wide which is what I needed for the right side lower insert. I think it was the 12x20.

The 10mm ID insert however was 21mm wide, too wide to fit the bracket on the swing arm. I used a hand file to take 1 mm off, took about 5 minutes and spent more time pulling it out of the vice and measuring than actually filing.



Quick tip if you're an absent minded idiot like me, don't set the insert down near your impact sockets or you may spend 15 minutes looking for it.



After filing I used a little blue thread lock compound and torqued everything to spec.
I haven't had a chance to ride yet but it should be warm enough tomorrow to take a spin. Just ordered the parts tonight for a fork rebuild with Progressive springs. Can't wait to get out in the spring.

One more note for those thinking about changing ride height, my stock 97 Standard Valk shocks are 12 5/8" eye to eye center, not 13" like I commonly see posted here. The Progressive 13" 444s are 12 7/8".

Good luck.

It just occurred to me looking at your post that you received very different hardware. I have three spare inserts for the lower mount of each shock, I'd be glad to send you one of each if you need it. Just send me a PM.

I also notice your location is Murfreesboro, is that TN? My office is in Smyrna.

[Jess from VA]

Thank you for that post.  

I still have two sets of aging 440s that have not leaked down....yet.  The then most expensive (with a lifetime warranty) but now discontinued shock Progressive claims they make no replacement for that fits Valkyrie.  (thus the tricky fitment)

Do you suppose it's possible your 12 5/8" OE shocks got 3/8" shorter because of age and miles/wear (than when new)?

I seem to recall a number of posts (going back in time) where guys were reporting 12.5s being closer to "stock" height than original spec 13" replacements.  I always assumed the first time they ever actually measured their OE Showas was after around 10 years of use, when they were first looking to replace them, and that age and wear always included some loss of height at or near a half inch.  

[hubcapsc]

Do you suppose it's possible your 12 5/8" OE shocks got 3/8" shorter because of age and miles/wear (than when new)?

If you think about our 440s, removed from the bike and with no load, they'd be
mashed out to full length by the preload on the spring. I guess the OEM shock
is like that?

-Mike

[Itinifni]

Hubcapsc is correct, with the shock off the bike or even on the bike with the bike jacked off the ground it is fully extended. That measurement is not going to change with age.

I was a little concerned when I first got the shocks off the bike and measured. With the original shocks adjusted to 1" of sag I can just get both feet flat on the ground with sneakers on (not that I ride in sneakers). I did not want to increase my ride height at all.

With the Progressives installed and sag set to 1" I can still get my feet down flat so all is good.

Out of curiosity I took another look at the Progressive spec sheet to see if there is a 12.5" 444 model with 3" or more of travel but no luck. There are quite a few 12.5s available with just over 2.9" travel available (with lots of spring options). In use any of those would bottom out approximately 0.5" earlier than the 4213s I used (3.19" travel) assuming the same spring/load conditions.

[bill-jr]

Yes m’boro tn ....
Yep finished them up last night ...
Nothing on the top but the bushing and i had old progressive 412’s on the bike already
That came with a bag of goodies like yours ....
I used the old inserts from them and it all went together easy enough ....

[Jess from VA]

OK guys, I stand corrected.

I guess in the grand scheme, a difference of a half inch in the rear (and closer to a quarter inch at the pegs) is not going to make any major difference in ride or function (assuming you have reasonably good functioning shocks, new or used).  I tend to drag boards, so I always went with 13" replacements.  I have short legs but still do fine with my feet.... as long as I'm careful not to stop next to any potholes. 

[turtle254]

I just installed my 444s last weekend, I used the 4213s, Progressive lists them for the Triumph Rocket 3 but they fit the specs I wanted along with the 1365 springs.

The ID of the top bushings on the Progressives was identical to the ID of the stock shock upper bushings (except the OEM shock bushings were a bit worn). Nothing but the bushing on the upper mounts of either shock.
The width of the upper bushings on the Progressives was 21mm but the OEM were at 20mm. Again may have been that the originals were somewhat compressed from age/use.

At any rate the upper bushings used no inserts and mounted without any problem.



Mine came with these inserts, 10, 12 and 14mm ID.



Interestingly the 12 and 14mm inserts were 20mm wide which is what I needed for the right side lower insert. I think it was the 12x20.

The 10mm ID insert however was 21mm wide, too wide to fit the bracket on the swing arm. I used a hand file to take 1 mm off, took about 5 minutes and spent more time pulling it out of the vice and measuring than actually filing.



Quick tip if you're an absent minded idiot like me, don't set the insert down near your impact sockets or you may spend 15 minutes looking for it.



After filing I used a little blue thread lock compound and torqued everything to spec.
I haven't had a chance to ride yet but it should be warm enough tomorrow to take a spin. Just ordered the parts tonight for a fork rebuild with Progressive springs. Can't wait to get out in the spring.

One more note for those thinking about changing ride height, my stock 97 Standard Valk shocks are 12 5/8" eye to eye center, not 13" like I commonly see posted here. The Progressive 13" 444s are 12 7/8".

Good luck.

It just occurred to me looking at your post that you received very different hardware. I have three spare inserts for the lower mount of each shock, I'd be glad to send you one of each if you need it. Just send me a PM.

I also notice your location is Murfreesboro, is that TN? My office is in Smyrna.

Are your old ones worn out? If not I might like them, if your interested.

[Itinifni]

Shocks are in good shape, not interested in selling them at this time.

[Itinifni]

I took a few measurements (approximate) yesterday.

Center of swing arm pivot to center of axle 590mm
Center of swing arm pivot to center of lower shock mount 490mm
Center of swing arm pivot to center of upper shock mount 400mm

I haven't been able to find a spec for total travel of the stock shock but rear suspension travel is listed as 120mm or 4.7".
A few napkin calculations and I come up with stock shock travel as 100mm

My 444s have 81mm travel, using the same napkin I come up with 95mm travel at the axle or 3.7".

I've lost 1" of travel at the axle, subtract 1" for proper sag adjustment and I'm left with 2.7" travel to accommodate load/bumps etc.

Granted my measurements and calculations are rough and I make a few assumptions but I think I'm in the ball park.