Alternator Sanity Check me please

[Serk]

I'm 99% the failure is the alternator, I've searched and seems to be, but before I order a replacement (Which will be question #2) please sanity check me.

Riding home on my 99 Interstate on the freeway, glance down and notice radio display is out, that's odd I think. Few miles later I twist the throttle and the engine cuts out, let off the gas and it sputters but mostly runs. Whenever I accelerate hard it dies out.

Coast to parking lot, radio and other electronics acting wonky, get local family to bring jumper cables, hook up cables, bike acts totally normal, fires right up. Disconnect jumpers and it dies within 20 seconds.

Go home, take battery out of my other Valkyrie, go back and swap it into the Interstate, starts up and get me home (10 miles away.)

Suspecting alternator at this point, I put a voltmeter on the battery on the Interstate while off, 12.25 volts, start bike, bike starts but dips to 11.85, rev engine and NO change in voltage while engine running no matter the RPM.

Swap battery back to my '98 and do the same test, voltage jumps up to around 14 while bike running, and goes up with RPM.

So..... Without a formal alternator test, sound like the alternator to ya'll?

And for an Interstate, what's the current consensus on the best alternator for longevity without breaking the bank? I see a bunch of $150 or less ones on Amazon, but wondering about longevity of them?

Thanks ya'll!

And yeah, I've googled and searched on this forum most of this info, but wanting reassurances I'm reading this right. If it's got a keyboard I can usually bend it to my will, if it requires turning a wrench, I've got a 50/50 success rate at best...

[Beardo]

Sounds like you proved it to be the alternator with those voltage readings. 

Can’t help you with the 2nd question.

[indybobm]

I would also check the dogbone fuse under the right cover. Under a rectangular plastic cover, usually with a spare fuse in it.

[Chrisj CMA]

If you have say 60-80K miles on that alternator it might just be brushes.  They cost $5.  Changing them is a project for the first time, but very doable

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sounds like the exact symptoms I had on my Interstate when the alternator failed. I bought one of those cheap ones you saw. Worked great for 2 years, then the nut holding the rotor tight came loose. Took it out and tightened it. Good for 2 more years, then a bearing went out on me on the way to Roanoke. My recommendation is just pop for the extra $200 and get the Goldwing alternator. You will have to “clock” it, but that very simple. Removing and replacing an alternator the first time will make you cuss a little. But by the 4th or 5th time it gets better. Also get you the little dampers that go in there and an extra O-ring. If you can get somebody that has done it before to help you thru it it would be a good move. It doesn’t seem like it will go in, but it will. It’s just got to be at the right angle and tilt.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jeff is right, it could just be brushes. The problem is if you take it out and it’s not, you have to wait another week for an alternator. If it turns out it’s just brushes, then you can have a spare alternator for Kali.

[Serk]

Sounds like the exact symptoms I had on my Interstate when the alternator failed. I bought one of those cheap ones you saw. Worked great for 2 years, then the nut holding the rotor tight came loose. Took it out and tightened it. Good for 2 more years, then a bearing went out on me on the way to Roanoke. My recommendation is just pop for the extra $200 and get the Goldwing alternator. You will have to “clock” it, but that very simple. Removing and replacing an alternator the first time will make you cuss a little. But by the 4th or 5th time it gets better. Also get you the little dampers that go in there and an extra O-ring. If you can get somebody that has done it before to help you thru it it would be a good move. It doesn’t seem like it will go in, but it will. It’s just got to be at the right angle and tilt.

I was kinda wondering if your alternator troubles were involving one of those less expensive options....

Thinking I'll order the Goldwing OEM alternator (Part# 31100-MT2-015 looks like) and research clocking it and replacing it and just have my old one repaired/rebuilt to have as a spare at a later date.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sounds like the exact symptoms I had on my Interstate when the alternator failed. I bought one of those cheap ones you saw. Worked great for 2 years, then the nut holding the rotor tight came loose. Took it out and tightened it. Good for 2 more years, then a bearing went out on me on the way to Roanoke. My recommendation is just pop for the extra $200 and get the Goldwing alternator. You will have to “clock” it, but that very simple. Removing and replacing an alternator the first time will make you cuss a little. But by the 4th or 5th time it gets better. Also get you the little dampers that go in there and an extra O-ring. If you can get somebody that has done it before to help you thru it it would be a good move. It doesn’t seem like it will go in, but it will. It’s just got to be at the right angle and tilt.

I was kinda wondering if your alternator troubles were involving one of those less expensive options....

Thinking I'll order the Goldwing OEM alternator (Part# 31100-MT2-015 looks like) and research clocking it and replacing it and just have my old one repaired/rebuilt to have as a spare at a later date.

that would be the route I’d go. After I got back from Roanoke I ordered a Goldwing to have as a spare. Kind of an insurance plan. When you have it in the bag, you’ll never need it. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't know if everyone does this. But on the Interstate and GoldWing alternators there is a little noise suppressor box on the back of the alternator. I found it much easier to unbolt that before insertion and then mount it after the alternator is in. It gives you just a little more extra room.

[Savago]

@Serk: my I/S had exactly the same symptoms when its alternator died.

A few considerations:
a) Be extremely careful while removing the 3 mounting bolts in the alternator. They are exposed to weather and will have the tendency to get stuck (plus the bolts seem made of Stainless steel and the engine block is aluminum).

A good strategy is to let the engine run for a little while to heat up the bolts (i.e. different coefficients of expansion between them and the block) and if they are still stubborn, use some good penetrating oil.

I used my oversized gorilla hands and managed to break 2 of them.
 

b) Non OEM alternators: some people get lucky with them, myself had a bad experience. First the o-ring that stops oil to leak through the engine and the alternator had the wrong size and it started leaking after just 50 miles. It was fixed by replacing by an OEM honda o-ring.

Next, the nut got loose (like meathead reported).
 

Finally, since it was an 'high output' alternator, if I left the engine idle at 900RPM, it wouldn't generate power! It would only kick in past 1200RPM.

c) Mounting the alternator: while removing is 'easy', putting it back is a PITA. I think there is a proper technique (a specific angle that let it go back in), but again, unless you got small and delicate Japanese hands, it is going to be a learning experience.

I recommend to use some good anti-seize on the bolts when you re-install the alternator.

[Savago]

A few color photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/sHSh9jBxVjVjAryc8

[..]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4_gh-sEF4&feature=youtu.be

Clock it

[Mike Floch]

Easy test is to remove the positive battery lead with bike running and if it dies alternator is shot.

If it still runs I would keep looking.

[gordonv]

Sorry Serk, but until you test your alternator, replacing it may not be what is wrong. But it is most likely what is wrong.

All you have proven is there is no power going to the battery while the bike is running.

There is, as mentioned, the Dog Bone fuse, which is between the alternator and the battery. If it's blown, then you will have no 14V at the battery while running, even with a working alternator.

You now need to put the meter on the alternator while it's running. There is the positive post, and ground to the chassis. You should have greater than battery voltage while running.

I think you most likely have fouled brushes, or worn. Also mentioned, $5 for a set. Do you want to buy a new alternator, before you find out what might be wrong?

In my 88' GW I had decreasing voltage over about 4 months time, till it no longer charged the bike (I had a Battery Bug mounted), 60K miles and 25 years old. Removed alt, tore it apart, and found that the brushes where seized in their seats. Flushed it out with WD40 till they moved freely. GW had more room than our Valk, and had it back in and running in 15 min. Not another hic up in 2 more years of riding.

I now have a volt meter installed on the IS.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,73199.0.html
I have the one that Dave S UK had posted. Also on the top of the dash. I like it there, I can monitor the voltage without looking down, as I've a full face helmet.

[Bighead]

Yep it is the alternator. When mine on my IS went I was lucky enough to be within 20 miles of a fellow VRCC member. I called he came with another battery. And got to his house. The next morning tje local honda shop had a ‘99 goldwing alternator in stock I bought it and put it in and continued my trip.  Thanks Charlie Mac.

[Ricky-D]

This is the most favored resource for problems with your alternator.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~hemi-roid/

***

[Alberta Patriot]

I went through all the steps, tested all the relevant wiring for continuity..etc...etc.
I took the alternator into a starter/alt. shop and he spun it up on his bench to confirm that it was dead. He handed it back to me a few days later with the rotor "rewound".
If I had known then what I know now, I would have ordered a NEW one right out of the gate.
I ended up stranded in the middle of a road trip last year because that turd jerry-rigged it by resoldering the rotor wire instead of rewinding it. That ended up being the day from hell.
Here is where I bought the new one. It is a factory OEM goldwing alternator so the mounting plate has to be rotated to work with the Valk.  It's easy to do. For $243 plus shipping...why gamble. You can always have the old one rebuilt later as a spare.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-HONDA-OEM-1989-1998-GL1500-GOLDWING-ALTERNATOR-31100-MT2-015/202566279540?epid=1011839584&hash=item2f29e42174:g:dwYAAOSwsB9WDq6V:rk:10:pf:0

This is a certified Honda Dealership in Troy MI.
From all I have read and researched, DO NOT BUY A CHEAPY AFTERMARKET REPLACEMENT. Way too many documented failures in these units.

[Serk]

Thanks for the input everyone (Sincerely, even if I didn't go with your recommendation, I appreciate all the input!)

I checked the dog-bone fuse last night, it's good and not blown. I didn't do a full continuity test from the alternator just because that's beyond what I wanna dig in to just yet, if I'm gonna get down to that level I'll just be replacing the alternator anyway.

I went ahead and ordered a genuine Honda OEM Goldwing alternator from Partzilla, $256.22 with free shipping:

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/31100-MT2-015

Per Mr. Head's suggestion I also ordered an o-ring and a set of the rubber dampeners.

I figure even if it's something simple to repair the existing alternator having a pair of these aging bikes on the road it'd probably be a good idea to have a spare on hand regardless, so the plan is to replace the current alternator with the (clocked) Goldwing unit, then investigate or have the old one rebuilt, might just take it to a local alternator shop and see what they quote me for it, just to have a spare on hand...

Oh, and I'm also researching voltmeters to install so I get a heads up next time, theoretically, BEFORE I'm on the side of the road...

Thanks again! Hoping the replacement goes smoothly, a little spooked about it but will get through it...

[98valk]

This is the most favored resource for problems with your alternator.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~hemi-roid/

***

 

[Gryphon Rider]

My 2000 Tourer had the same symptoms: the tach quit, then the engine quit and wouldn't start.  The culprit turned out to be a broken wire for the rotor windings.  After trying and failing to find a local shop to fix the rotor, I bought a new rotor from a Honda dealership and installed it, which fixed the problem.  I also installed a voltmeter afterwards.

For those who have worn out your alternator brushes, after how many miles did this happen?

[98valk]

My 2000 Tourer had the same symptoms: the tach quit, then the engine quit and wouldn't start.  The culprit turned out to be a broken wire for the rotor windings.  After trying and failing to find a local shop to fix the rotor, I bought a new rotor from a Honda dealership and installed it, which fixed the problem.  I also installed a voltmeter afterwards.

For those who have worn out your alternator brushes, after how many miles did this happen?

the hole in the brushes is not the worn out mark, which many think it is. I replaced the rear bearing in mine at 52k w/NAPA bearing. There were posts yrs ago and GL1500 sites of them going bad at +/- 50k miles, mine was starting to go bad, some noise and looseness. Napa is an upgrade. Brush check indicates wear out would be 100k miles.

[Jess from VA]

A real voltmeter is better than the Kuryakyn led idiot-light voltmeters I have on both my bikes.

There is red (bad-discharging ), yellow (in the middle) and green (good), and so long as you are green while running you know you are OK.  But some cold start low idle will be at the top of the red, until the bike warms up.  It's not a real voltmeter, but it's better than nothing (or a poke in the eye with a sharp stick). The thing is, it's no good at all if you don't look at it from time to time.  And as the years (now 20) go by on both my Interstates with no alternator problems, it's hard to remember to look, occasionally.

Mine (black) are mounted on the high right inside of my fairings, but std and tourer guys often mount them on the inside of one of the master cylinders on the handlebars.  It's better to mount where it's easy to see and glace at from time to time.





A real voltmeter.


Maybe I just got lucky on my Valk alternators, but I think my practice of keeping both bikes plugged in to Batter Tenders 24 x 7 x 365 (when not riding or traveling), keeping my batteries optimized at all times means I have never overworked my alternators. 

[msb]

.

For those who have worn out your alternator brushes, after how many miles did this happen?

I replaced the brushes on mine  at 160,000 km...about 100,000 miles. They were well worn.

[Daniel Meyer]

Easy test is to remove the positive battery lead with bike running and if it dies alternator is shot.

If it still runs I would keep looking.

Nooooooooo!!!!!

While this worked fine with generators and alternators with mechanical regulators, in modern alternators it stands about a 60/40 chance of blowing your regulator (which is the expensive part!) as the load (battery) is suddenly removed and the voltage spikes.

The test is with a good voltmeter. Fully charged battery should read 12.6-12.9 volts or so with engine off, should be over 13 while engine is running.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Serk, for comparisons sake. The alternator shop in Amarillo charged me about $170 for a complete rebuild. I would think you could find something comparable or cheaper even in Dallas.

[Gryphon Rider]

Easy test is to remove the positive battery lead with bike running and if it dies alternator is shot.

If it still runs I would keep looking.

Nooooooooo!!!!!

While this worked fine with generators and alternators with mechanical regulators, in modern alternators it stands about a 60/40 chance of blowing your regulator (which is the expensive part!) as the load (battery) is suddenly removed and the voltage spikes.

The test is with a good voltmeter. Fully charged battery should read 12.6-12.9 volts or so with engine off, should be over 13 while engine is running.

+1.  Mike Floch, never disconnect the battery of a running vehicle; test with a voltmeter.

[Serk]

Serk, for comparisons sake. The alternator shop in Amarillo charged me about $170 for a complete rebuild. I would think you could find something comparable or cheaper even in Dallas.

Ouch, that's close enough to the price for a brand new one I might just go that route...

Maybe I'll bring the bad one to Taos if anyone wants to tinker with it?

(Assuming that it is indeed the alternator of course, although I'm fairly confident that's the case at this point.)

[The emperor has no clothes]

Serk, for comparisons sake. The alternator shop in Amarillo charged me about $170 for a complete rebuild. I would think you could find something comparable or cheaper even in Dallas.

Ouch, that's close enough to the price for a brand new one I might just go that route...

Maybe I'll bring the bad one to Taos if anyone wants to tinker with it?

(Assuming that it is indeed the alternator of course, although I'm fairly confident that's the case at this point.)

They did a complete rebuild on mine, and at the time I was tickled pink with that price. But I’m sure if it’s just brushes and bearings, it could be a lot cheaper. Worth checking. Or maybe Daniel could use yours for a Tech session ?

[Bagger John - #3785]

Oh, and I'm also researching voltmeters to install so I get a heads up next time, theoretically, BEFORE I'm on the side of the road...

There's a neat little unit which incorporates a voltmeter, cigarette lighter hookup and USB charging port. It's chromed and mounts on a 1" handlebar. Perfect for this application.




http://www.meancycles.com/store/parts/view.cfm?partID=225311

[Serk]

How badly did I just screw the pooch?

Got the old alternator out, was clocking the new one, it wouldn't rotate, I pulled apart on it and it.... came apart entirely.

I see 2 copper wires going to the end cap, but only one is connected.

And beyond that I can't get the bearings back into the end with the retractable bits.

Did I totally bork this alternator?

Ugh...

Sometimes it's just cheaper to pay someone to do it instead of letting me near this stuff, I swear...

[Jess from VA]

Sorry for your troubles.

But, it's good to know I'm not the only graduate of The Fat Finger School of Smoking Auto Electric.   

If someone can't help better, I'm thinking you could get it fixed at a local Auto Electric Shop (if they exist anymore) for reasonable (including clocking), then swap them out yourself.  Though I doubt I could do that either.

[The emperor has no clothes]

How badly did I just screw the pooch?

Got the old alternator out, was clocking the new one, it wouldn't rotate, I pulled apart on it and it.... came apart entirely.

I see 2 copper wires going to the end cap, but only one is connected.

And beyond that I can't get the bearings back into the end with the retractable bits.

Did I totally bork this alternator?

Ugh...

Sometimes it's just cheaper to pay someone to do it instead of letting me near this stuff, I swear...

I'm afraid you might have. But an alternator guy can probably fix it. Take him your old one to show him how you need it clocked. (I hope it can be fixed, I feel partly responsible)  

[Serk]

Tinkering with it, I made it worse. Trying to get the shaft back in broke the brushes out.

I'm done... Just ordering a new alternator and will try again.

Damnit.

Meathead - You're not responsible, it's my own fault, no one to blame but me... Thank you though...

I'll admit I've new found respect for you, doing that in a Motel parking lot in Amarillo, it's painful enough doing it in my garage!

[Avanti]

Take it to a good alternator rebuild shop and they can put in a new brush holder, repair any wires connections and clock it the way you want it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Tinkering with it, I made it worse. Trying to get the shaft back in broke the brushes out.

I'm done... Just ordering a new alternator and will try again.

Damnit.

Meathead - You're not responsible, it's my own fault, no one to blame but me... Thank you though...

I'll admit I've new found respect for you, doing that in a Motel parking lot in Amarillo, it's painful enough doing it in my garage!

Had I not have done it previously in my garage, it probably wouldn't have happened. You should be able to just twist the unit to clock it after you've removed the bolts. It might have just been stuck a little. But hey on the bright side you successfully removed your old alternator. That's no small feat. Hang in there buddy 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I understand your frustration. But I agree with Avanti. I think a reputable, dedicated alternator repair shop can fix it.

[Daniel Meyer]

It's the other end that clocks...

Getting the brushes back in ...you simply push them back...see the holes in 'em? There's a pinhole in the alternator housing that corrasponds with their retracted location...ya push 'em in, stick a paperclip through the housing to hold 'em, put it together, pull the paperclip.

But the wire's a problem.

An alternator shop can probably fix that...

But when ya get your new one in, come on by, I'll help ya clock it.

[Serk]

It's the other end that clocks...

Getting the brushes back in ...you simply push them back...see the holes in 'em? There's a pinhole in the alternator housing that corrasponds with their retracted location...ya push 'em in, stick a paperclip through the housing to hold 'em, put it together, pull the paperclip.

But the wire's a problem.

An alternator shop can probably fix that...

But when ya get your new one in, come on by, I'll help ya clock it.

Appreciate the offer Daniel, sincerely, it might have been an extra dumb thing of me but I went ahead and just ordered an actual Valkyrie Interstate alternator instead of the Gold Wing one, just wanna get this done and over with...

Once it's all button'ed up I might try to find both my now dead alternators to a local shop and see if they can make 'em into viable spares...

[MarkT]

You need to hold your tongue just right when installing the alternator - then it goes right in!

On my return from Inzane, I noticed my voltmeter reporting progressively less voltage.  Normally 14.3v. it creeped down to 11.0.  Apparently it was affected by heat as the next time I rode, the volts were back to normal.  Just glad it got me home.  I hadn't brought my spare.  It hasn't shown problems since but now it's on my winter plate.

I have a spare Valk for parts, and also the original alternator I removed from Deerslayer when I installed the Compufire.  I ordered an alternator from Amazon anyway.  Now without opening the one I'm taking off Jade I have two spares.  OK by me, it's a known issue.  From now on I bring a spare with me on long rides.

BTW if you get an Escort Passport radar detector, it has a very nice volt readout, reported constantly while you're not getting a radar warning.  Just make sure it has it's own direct connection (via fuse) to the battery - not shared with something else.  I've used it for years and it's quite accurate - has always given me a headsup if I have a charging issue.  BONUS if you're like me the Escort will pay for itself in due time.  Mine has paid it's way countless times.  Now I won't drive/ride without it - move it between vehicles like I do the Zumo.  However I got a ticket at a radar trap in Wis. this summer because I was in my 4Runner and I turned down the Escort's volume.  DAMN!

I broke off the outer top bolt on Deerslayer years ago.  Seems to be OK without it.

[gordonv]

Serk, you did exactly the same thing I did on my spare alternator. You removed the long bolts holding the haves together, but didn't remove the 3 bolts from the outside end, then pulled until they stretched and broke. There are 3 wires there from the windings to the brushes/top, you have one there intact, one you see broken, and the other would be inside the 3rd slot at the 2 o'clock position in the white plate.

It's broken. Cheaper to buy another used inexpensive one than to get it fixed. I paid about $30 for one, so I would have a spare to fix.

The input end, the half with the windings/green section in it, was what needed to be rotated 1/3 to the next bolt hole.

If you take the 3 nuts off the end cap, you should be able to pull it off, and have proper access to the brushes. You can see the holes in the brushes? That is for holding the brushes in with a paper clip, so you can place that end back over the bearing. Then pull the clip to release the brushes back onto it's pick ups.

Did you not have the how-to from shoptalk?

The brushes looked good and long, where they stuck in their slots?