Coronavirus $hit be getting real

[The emperor has no clothes]

204,026 Americans dead as of this morning.
7,048,285 Cases in America

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Still, you make light of the virus, still you downplay it.  Still the President lies.   

You are all gleefully following the pied piper of the apocalypse to your own deaths.  It's scary to watch.

I make up my own mind...based on the math.

204,026/330,000,000 = 0.0006 or 0.06% chance of dying. I’ll take those odds any day of the week, month, year or lifetime.

You don't seem to understand how to correlate the numbers though. When we had the first death in WA or CA that made your figuring of the odds infinitesimal. Where does that get us ? Most of the studies of the amount of us that have antibodies is somewhere between 10 and 20 percent. Without a vaccine by the time it infects the entire population, it would result in 1 to 2 million deaths at our current rate. Nothing insignificant.

[Willow]

You don't seem to understand how to correlate the numbers though. When we had the first death in WA or CA that made your figuring of the odds infinitesimal. Where does that get us ? Most of the studies of the amount of us that have antibodies is somewhere between 10 and 20 percent. Without a vaccine by the time it infects the entire population, it would result in 1 to 2 million deaths at our current rate. Nothing insignificant.

You don't seem to be able to correctly process the numbers.  Take another look at Jersey Mike's post.  Even if one does catch the disease if one is under 70 years of age he has a better than 99% of recovery.  If one is over 70 he still has a 94% chance of survival.

An earlier post said, "You are all gleefully following the pied piper of the apocalypse to your own deaths.  It's scary to watch."  To our own deaths?  It's like playing Russian Roulette once with a pistol holding a cylinder with 100 chambers.  It's not completely insignificant but it is not nearly significant enough to be doing the damage to the economy and the culture that is being done.

[scooperhsd]

204,026 Americans dead as of this morning.
7,048,285 Cases in America

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Still, you make light of the virus, still you downplay it.  Still the President lies.   

You are all gleefully following the pied piper of the apocalypse to your own deaths.  It's scary to watch.

I make up my own mind...based on the math.

204,026/330,000,000 = 0.0006 or 0.06% chance of dying. I’ll take those odds any day of the week, month, year or lifetime.

Absolutely  - If you're under 69 years of age - IF you manage to contract the virus, you have a better than  99% chance of survival. If you're over 69 - the odds decrease to ~95 %.

[Jersey mike]

204,026 Americans dead as of this morning.
7,048,285 Cases in America

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Still, you make light of the virus, still you downplay it.  Still the President lies.   

You are all gleefully following the pied piper of the apocalypse to your own deaths.  It's scary to watch.

I make up my own mind...based on the math.

204,026/330,000,000 = 0.0006 or 0.06% chance of dying. I’ll take those odds any day of the week, month, year or lifetime.

You don't seem to understand how to correlate the numbers though. When we had the first death in WA or CA that made your figuring of the odds infinitesimal. Where does that get us ? Most of the studies of the amount of us that have antibodies is somewhere between 10 and 20 percent. Without a vaccine by the time it infects the entire population, it would result in 1 to 2 million deaths at our current rate. Nothing insignificant.

I correlate the numbers just fine. It’s been 8 months and just over 200k have died.

At that rate it will be years by the time we get to 1M. This is not a global killer.
((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned, I’ll get concerned when people dropping dead in the streets and we’re in zombie mode.

This virus has been a big pain in the ass from the very beginning, it’s nothing but a fabricated media shakedown to make people feel bad and feel responsible form the unfortunate deaths of those who are already in a weakened condition who were and are the most susceptible to this new strain of flu.

This has been a global show of how to quickly ruin a world economy for the sake of the old and sickly.

[Valkorado]

((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned,

Is all good, as long as those who die are merely folks in a weakened condition who are members of someone else's family.  

[Jersey mike]

((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned,

Is all good, as long as those who die are merely folks in a weakened condition from someone else's family.  

When push comes to shove you’re 100% correct.

No matter who says what “we are not all in this together” and that was a proven fact when the grocery store shelves were being stripped clean.

99+% of the world will not die.

My responsibility and concern begins and ends with my family.

My respect for someone else’s concerns and health are a separate issue.

You and I have been round and round on this topic, I stand my ground and assert that less than a 1% chance of dying from C-19 is inconsequential and a non issue.

[Alien]

Chickenpox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.
Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.
HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.
Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.
So far the symptoms may include:
Fever
Fatigue
Coughing
Pneumonia
Chills/Trembling
Acute respiratory distress
Lung damage (potentially permanent)
Loss of taste (a neurological symptom)
Sore throat
Headaches
Difficulty breathing
Mental confusion
Diarrhea
Nausea or vomiting
Loss of appetite
Strokes have also been reported in some people who have COVID-19 (even in the relatively young)
Swollen eyes
Blood clots
Seizures
Liver damage
Kidney damage
Rash
COVID toes (weird, right?)
People testing positive for COVID-19 have been documented to be sick even after 60 days. Many people are sick for weeks, get better, and then experience a rapid and sudden flare up and get sick all over again. A man in Seattle was hospitalized for 62 days, and while well enough to be released, still has a long road of recovery ahead of him. Not to mention a $1.1 million medical bill.
Then there is MIS-C. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Children with MIS-C may have a fever and various symptoms, including abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, neck pain, rash, bloodshot eyes, or feeling extra tired. While rare, it has caused deaths.
This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.
For those in our society who suggest that people being cautious are cowards, for people who refuse to take even the simplest of precautions to protect themselves and those around them, I want to ask, without hyperbole and in all sincerity:
How dare you?
How dare you risk the lives of others so cavalierly. How dare you decide for others that they should welcome exposure as "getting it over with", when literally no one knows who will be the lucky "mild symptoms" case, and who may fall ill and die. Because while we know that some people are more susceptible to suffering a more serious case, we also know that 20 and 30-year-olds have died, marathon runners and fitness nuts have died, children and infants have died.
How dare you behave as though you know more than medical experts, when those same experts acknowledge that there is so much we don't yet know, but with what we DO know, are smart enough to be scared of how easily this is spread, and recommend baseline precautions such as:
Frequent hand-washing
Physical distancing
Reduced social/public contact or interaction
Mask wearing
Covering your cough or sneeze
Avoiding touching your face
Sanitizing frequently touched surfaces
The more things we can all do to mitigate our risk of exposure, the better off we all are, in my opinion. Not only does it flatten the curve and allow health care providers to maintain levels of service that aren't immediately and catastrophically overwhelmed; it also reduces unnecessary suffering and deaths, and buys time for the scientific community to study the virus in order to come to a more full understanding of the breadth of its impacts in both the short and long term.

I reject the notion that it's "just a virus" and we'll all get it eventually. What a careless, lazy, heartless stance.

[Rams]

((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned,

Is all good, as long as those who die are merely folks in a weakened condition from someone else's family.  

When push comes to shove you’re 100% correct.

No matter who says what “we are not all in this together” and that was a proven fact when the grocery store shelves were being stripped clean.

99+% of the world will not die.

My responsibility and concern begins and ends with my family.

My respect for someone else’s concerns and health are a separate issue.

You and I have been round and round on this topic, I stand my ground and assert that less than a 1% chance of dying from C-19 is inconsequential and a non issue.

I've been to two memorials since this virus struck.   Family members shared the virus with the victims.   These are facts.    I also don't like masking up and don't wish to see our economy shut down but, if we don't follow CDC guide lines and someone in our Valkyrie or personal family dies, who you gonna call or blame.   

I try to follow the guide lines to the best of my ability and hope others do so also.   I just happen to be in that "high risk" group.   I've tried to stay out of this thread due to some restrictions I agreed to but, I do have an opinion.  Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Rams

[Jersey mike]

Chickenpox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.
Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.
HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.
Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.
So far the symptoms may include:
Fever
Fatigue
Coughing
Pneumonia
Chills/Trembling
Acute respiratory distress
Lung damage (potentially permanent)
Loss of taste (a neurological symptom)
Sore throat
Headaches
Difficulty breathing
Mental confusion
Diarrhea
Nausea or vomiting
Loss of appetite
Strokes have also been reported in some people who have COVID-19 (even in the relatively young)
Swollen eyes
Blood clots
Seizures
Liver damage
Kidney damage
Rash
COVID toes (weird, right?)
People testing positive for COVID-19 have been documented to be sick even after 60 days. Many people are sick for weeks, get better, and then experience a rapid and sudden flare up and get sick all over again. A man in Seattle was hospitalized for 62 days, and while well enough to be released, still has a long road of recovery ahead of him. Not to mention a $1.1 million medical bill.
Then there is MIS-C. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Children with MIS-C may have a fever and various symptoms, including abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, neck pain, rash, bloodshot eyes, or feeling extra tired. While rare, it has caused deaths.
This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.
For those in our society who suggest that people being cautious are cowards, for people who refuse to take even the simplest of precautions to protect themselves and those around them, I want to ask, without hyperbole and in all sincerity:
How dare you?
How dare you risk the lives of others so cavalierly. How dare you decide for others that they should welcome exposure as "getting it over with", when literally no one knows who will be the lucky "mild symptoms" case, and who may fall ill and die. Because while we know that some people are more susceptible to suffering a more serious case, we also know that 20 and 30-year-olds have died, marathon runners and fitness nuts have died, children and infants have died.
How dare you behave as though you know more than medical experts, when those same experts acknowledge that there is so much we don't yet know, but with what we DO know, are smart enough to be scared of how easily this is spread, and recommend baseline precautions such as:
Frequent hand-washing
Physical distancing
Reduced social/public contact or interaction
Mask wearing
Covering your cough or sneeze
Avoiding touching your face
Sanitizing frequently touched surfaces
The more things we can all do to mitigate our risk of exposure, the better off we all are, in my opinion. Not only does it flatten the curve and allow health care providers to maintain levels of service that aren't immediately and catastrophically overwhelmed; it also reduces unnecessary suffering and deaths, and buys time for the scientific community to study the virus in order to come to a more full understanding of the breadth of its impacts in both the short and long term.

I reject the notion that it's "just a virus" and we'll all get it eventually. What a careless, lazy, heartless stance.

Heartless? Not really. Realistic absolutely.

People with advanced age and those with underlying conditions are the most at risk and those with multiple underlying conditions are the most susceptible.

As a matter of fact I’d bet an obese, diabetic with heart disease and or a respiratory issue has a greater chance of dying on the toilet than C-19.

[_Sheffjs_]

The mask.......... Again Sweden, no mask.  Ok I can wear the mask in the store, but if I could get flights I would go stay with my friends in different towns and happily go have a life again without one.

[Jersey mike]

((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned,

Is all good, as long as those who die are merely folks in a weakened condition from someone else's family.  

When push comes to shove you’re 100% correct.

No matter who says what “we are not all in this together” and that was a proven fact when the grocery store shelves were being stripped clean.

99+% of the world will not die.

My responsibility and concern begins and ends with my family.

My respect for someone else’s concerns and health are a separate issue.

You and I have been round and round on this topic, I stand my ground and assert that less than a 1% chance of dying from C-19 is inconsequential and a non issue.

I've been to two memorials since this virus struck.   Family members shared the virus with the victims.   These are facts.    I also don't like masking up and don't wish to see our economy shut down but, if we don't follow CDC guide lines and someone in our Valkyrie or personal family dies, who you gonna call or blame.   

I try to follow the guide lines to the best of my ability and hope others do so also.   I just happen to be in that "high risk" group.   I've tried to stay out of this thread due to some restrictions I agreed to but, I do have an opinion.  Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Rams

We are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Up until several weeks ago I didn’t know 1 person with C-19 or met anyone who knew someone who had C-19 or even knew someone who knew someone with C-19 and N.J. was one of the hardest hit states.

 My father-in-law is in a memory care facility with about 40 other residents and there was 1 suspected case and 1 care worker who tested negative.

Now on to the person who we did know...the disabled daughter of my wife’s cousin. A young woman with an extremely weak immune system and has battled pneumonia over a dozen times in her life. She lives with a disability called Rhett Syndrome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rett_syndrome

She spent maybe 5-6 days in the hospital, was given Remdesivir but it caused issues with her liver but helped, so they discontinued that and put her on a different course. Days later she went home and is fine  now.

That’s all I can say on that. Some people will die. I don’t want death. I don’t like death. I think it’s bad, I’ve seen enough of it to know I’m not a fan but I live realistically.

[Rams]

((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned,

Is all good, as long as those who die are merely folks in a weakened condition from someone else's family.  

When push comes to shove you’re 100% correct.

No matter who says what “we are not all in this together” and that was a proven fact when the grocery store shelves were being stripped clean.

99+% of the world will not die.

My responsibility and concern begins and ends with my family.

My respect for someone else’s concerns and health are a separate issue.

You and I have been round and round on this topic, I stand my ground and assert that less than a 1% chance of dying from C-19 is inconsequential and a non issue.

I've been to two memorials since this virus struck.   Family members shared the virus with the victims.   These are facts.    I also don't like masking up and don't wish to see our economy shut down but, if we don't follow CDC guide lines and someone in our Valkyrie or personal family dies, who you gonna call or blame.   

I try to follow the guide lines to the best of my ability and hope others do so also.   I just happen to be in that "high risk" group.   I've tried to stay out of this thread due to some restrictions I agreed to but, I do have an opinion.  Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Rams

We are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Up until several weeks ago I didn’t know 1 person with C-19 or met anyone who knew someone who had C-19 or even knew someone who knew someone with C-19 and N.J. was one of the hardest hit states.

 My father-in-law is in a memory care facility with about 40 other residents and there was 1 suspected case and 1 care worker who tested negative.

Now on to the person who we did know...the disabled daughter of my wife’s cousin. A young woman with an extremely weak immune system and has battled pneumonia over a dozen times in her life. She lives with a disability called Rhett Syndrome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rett_syndrome

She spent maybe 5-6 days in the hospital, was given Remdesivir but it caused issues with her liver but helped, so they discontinued that and put her on a different course. Days later she went home and is fine  now.

That’s all I can say on that. Some people will die. I don’t want death. I don’t like death. I think it’s bad, I’ve seen enough of it to know I’m not a fan but I live realistically.

I understand.  All I'm saying is that "realistically", someone who doesn't know they are carrying the virus can share it with you or, your loved ones.   I sincerely hope that this doesn't hit any of your or my family.

Rams

[cookiedough]

how many of us do you think knows someone who tested positive?   I know of only 1 person age 22 or so,  but then again,  I do not know or talk to more than a few dozen people that I know enough to chat/socialize with.  Both my kids work in people contact environments and although healthy age 19 and 22,  the 22 year old seems to get sick more and more frequently but having been tested 2x's now she both times has been negative.    I wonder how accurate these swipping of the nostril tests are?  I bet not over 90% accurate, but could be wrong?

Luckily I pulled my mom past year out of the crappy assisted living place close to her home since 3 older than her have died there all 3 we know, not due to covid but old age and mistreatment both there.  She is now in an only 8 unit very small assisted living home and besides the 1 care worker on duty is all they have,  the currently 6 residents are less likely to contact covid I am hoping due to less outside contact with people. 

this social distancing staying home more often does not bother me one bit but know it does a few.  Only time I go out is if need something like food or other household supplies for the most part.  Visiting places on a whim has never been my thing.

The covid cases coming back positive has skyrocketed in my county the past few days and we have very little people in my small communities of 1000 people each town with only one big town of 10000 people nearby in same county.   Then again,  am guessing over 1/3rd around me where I live does not social distance or wear masks either.   What scared the kacka out of me was last month went ATVing up in NE WI and literally NO ONE NOT ONE single person or store/bar/hotel employee in the middle of nowhere all dinky run down towns mostly rural forest land was social distancing or wearing a mask.  The bar/6 unit motel we stayed at surely was not,  having a 20K raffle drawing when we checked into our hotel at the bar and over 100 people packed in like sardines 2 feet apart at most place was standing room only no masks, etc. and had to walk thru them all to get to the bar to get a motel room.  I guess local law enforcement does not have the numbers to patrol all places of establishment but even gas station counter people were not wearing masks which I found very odd since is mandatory technically in WI.

[Jersey mike]

((IMO) This is a new strain of flu that’s been over hyped into something it isn’t. Yes people will die, that’s unfortunate. Will it be me or anyone in my family I highly doubt it, I’m not concerned,

Is all good, as long as those who die are merely folks in a weakened condition from someone else's family.  

When push comes to shove you’re 100% correct.

No matter who says what “we are not all in this together” and that was a proven fact when the grocery store shelves were being stripped clean.

99+% of the world will not die.

My responsibility and concern begins and ends with my family.

My respect for someone else’s concerns and health are a separate issue.

You and I have been round and round on this topic, I stand my ground and assert that less than a 1% chance of dying from C-19 is inconsequential and a non issue.

I've been to two memorials since this virus struck.   Family members shared the virus with the victims.   These are facts.    I also don't like masking up and don't wish to see our economy shut down but, if we don't follow CDC guide lines and someone in our Valkyrie or personal family dies, who you gonna call or blame.   

I try to follow the guide lines to the best of my ability and hope others do so also.   I just happen to be in that "high risk" group.   I've tried to stay out of this thread due to some restrictions I agreed to but, I do have an opinion.  Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Rams

We are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Up until several weeks ago I didn’t know 1 person with C-19 or met anyone who knew someone who had C-19 or even knew someone who knew someone with C-19 and N.J. was one of the hardest hit states.

 My father-in-law is in a memory care facility with about 40 other residents and there was 1 suspected case and 1 care worker who tested negative.

Now on to the person who we did know...the disabled daughter of my wife’s cousin. A young woman with an extremely weak immune system and has battled pneumonia over a dozen times in her life. She lives with a disability called Rhett Syndrome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rett_syndrome

She spent maybe 5-6 days in the hospital, was given Remdesivir but it caused issues with her liver but helped, so they discontinued that and put her on a different course. Days later she went home and is fine  now.

That’s all I can say on that. Some people will die. I don’t want death. I don’t like death. I think it’s bad, I’ve seen enough of it to know I’m not a fan but I live realistically.

I understand.  All I'm saying is that "realistically", someone who doesn't know they are carrying the virus can share it with you or, your loved ones.   I sincerely hope that this doesn't hit any of your or my family.

Rams

I’m not trying to press the issue here but as far as the severity nature that’s being presented for C-19, aside from the elderly and all those with underlying conditions which sect of society would be at the most risk?

To me it’s the homeless, those who live on the streets and the junkies living on sidewalks, alleyways in every major city. They have the poorest of living conditions, they have the worst dietary habits, little to no access to health care and probably the worst hygiene. I doubt there’s a lot of social distancing going on out there let alone proper sanitary and hand washing/sterilization concern going on.

With all of that working against them I’ve yet to hear of people being found dead from COVID. There has yet to be a report (that I’m aware of) of those living on the streets are dying at any rate let alone an alarming rate because of the virus.

If there was such an issue I may have a different opinion on the severity of the virus but that’s not the case as far as I’m concerned. Then I would say yeah it’s probably highly infectious, easily spread and deadly enough to be an issue.

[Jersey mike]

how many of us do you think knows someone who tested positive?   I know of only 1 person age 22 or so,  but then again,  I do not know or talk to more than a few dozen people that I know enough to chat/socialize with.  Both my kids work in people contact environments and although healthy age 19 and 22,  the 22 year old seems to get sick more and more frequently but having been tested 2x's now she both times has been negative.    I wonder how accurate these swipping of the nostril tests are?  I bet not over 90% accurate, but could be wrong?

Luckily I pulled my mom past year out of the crappy assisted living place close to her home since 3 older than her have died there all 3 we know, not due to covid but old age and mistreatment both there.  She is now in an only 8 unit very small assisted living home and besides the 1 care worker on duty is all they have,  the currently 6 residents are less likely to contact covid I am hoping due to less outside contact with people. 

this social distancing staying home more often does not bother me one bit but know it does a few.  Only time I go out is if need something like food or other household supplies for the most part.  Visiting places on a whim has never been my thing.

The covid cases coming back positive has skyrocketed in my county the past few days and we have very little people in my small communities of 1000 people each town with only one big town of 10000 people nearby in same county.   Then again,  am guessing over 1/3rd around me where I live does not social distance or wear masks either.   What scared the kacka out of me was last month went ATVing up in NE WI and literally NO ONE NOT ONE single person or store/bar/hotel employee in the middle of nowhere all dinky run down towns mostly rural forest land was social distancing or wearing a mask.  The bar/6 unit motel we stayed at surely was not,  having a 20K raffle drawing when we checked into our hotel at the bar and over 100 people packed in like sardines 2 feet apart at most place was standing room only no masks, etc. and had to walk thru them all to get to the bar to get a motel room.  I guess local law enforcement does not have the numbers to patrol all places of establishment but even gas station counter people were not wearing masks which I found very odd since is mandatory technically in WI.

Ok, so this may sound as though as I have an answer or an excuse for everything but here goes.

I know 2 couples who were part of a group of about 25 (all in their 60’s or so) that went to Sturgis. They camped at a famous bar or campground that’s about 600 acres, I can’t remember the name of it.

They all had their bikes, some rode the entire distance or trucked them out there. They all went into town, went to events, ate and drank at bars and restaurants and walked the streets through the crowds and they were there for about 5 days. 

When I asked about social distancing and masks the answer I got was a big laugh. Not one person from the group got sick, not even a sniffle.

Was the entire group just lucky?

[Alien]

I know people who have been affected.  I mean I personally know/knew them.  Three have been good friends.  None of these people were obese, diabetic, had any respiratory conditions or any other underlying illnesses.  Only one was a senior citizen.  So, DO NOT try to tell me that most people are not at risk.  I've seen too much death and suffering to listen to that.

44 Year old male friend - Otherwise healthy - Dead

73 Year old male coworker - Seemed healthy but history unknown - Dead

13 Year old female daughter of a friend - Perfect health - Dead

31 Year old Female employee - Otherwise healthy - Recovering now

24 Year old female former employee - Recovered

[Jersey mike]

Nothing to fear now, China has a vaccine in use. So along with the Russian vaccine everyone concerned about the virus can rest easy.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-pushes-emergency-use-of-covid-vaccine-despite-concerns

[Jersey mike]

I know people who have been affected.  I mean I personally know/knew them.  Three have been good friends.  None of these people were obese, diabetic, had any respiratory conditions or any other underlying illnesses.  Only one was a senior citizen.  So, DO NOT try to tell me that most people are not at risk.  I've seen too much death and suffering to listen to that.

44 Year old male friend - Otherwise healthy - Dead

73 Year old male coworker - Seemed healthy but history unknown - Dead

13 Year old female daughter of a friend - Perfect health - Dead

31 Year old Female employee - Otherwise healthy - Recovering now

24 Year old female former employee - Recovered

I’m sorry you’ve lost people close to you, I really am.  Maybe you’re experience is an anomaly, I don’t know. For me to comment on the health of the people you knew would be wrong if I’m to accept your side as absolutely true. There could be any number of reasons as why a perfectly healthy person would succumb to this.

So for the sake of discussion remove the senior citizen from your list because you say his health history is unknown.

Now you’re left with the 44 yr male and the 13 yr female. Those are unfortunate statistics of an attacking virus. By the numbers they shouldn’t have died but they did. If as you say they were “in perfect health” with zero underlying health conditions then it truly is a sad experience. Only the autopsy report would have any detailed information which you may already know and have used in your outline.

It been noted that while the virus does seem to play favorites to the sickly and elderly, it has taken the opportunity to look for other victims. I would have to believe even the slightest case of undiagnosed asthma or pulmonary disease or even the slightest heart issue could be an issue.

You have your reasons to feel how you feel just as I have presented the reasons why I believe what I do. As I said to Rams, we are at the opposite ends of the spectrum with our experiences. But I do stand by the math of all this.

To know that less than 1% of the people who MIGHT catch this will die is not a number I’m willing to dismiss and while tragic to lose a loved one the likelihood of dying is almost zero.

Let’s say for argument sake that the 1% jumped to 5% or even 10%. To know you’d have a 90-95% chance of living is still not a number to dismiss. For me that number could go even lower...probably into the 70-80% range.

[Alien]

The thing is, this virus doesn't play by the numbers.  You don't know who will get it, who will recover, who will die.  You don't know.  No one knows.  All the math in the world is usless when someone you know is sick or dead.  

The numbers are meaningless because the risk factors aren't understood.  There are many cases of elderly people with multiple underlying conditions becoming sick with this virus, and recovering completely.  At the same time, there are cases of young, healthy people dying very quickly.  

The bottom line is that you, me, the doctors, the politicians...we don't really know anything about who is at risk or what the actual risk factors are.  One of the common symptoms is a loss of the ability to taste.  That's a neurological symptom! That means, that in some people, it has at least a temporary effect on the brain.

This is whyTrump's continued lies and disregard for science or safety around this virus really piss me off. 

[scooperhsd]

Trump's lies trying to trivialize it piss me off too. But also the scientists trying to overblow it. And the inconsistent suggestions on what to do - they REALLY piss me off.

On an individual basis - it can be tragic. But in the large view - it's nothing more than a "super-flu".

[Alien]

Trump's lies trying to trivialize it piss me off too. But also the scientists trying to overblow it. And the inconsistent suggestions on what to do - they REALLY piss me off.

On an individual basis - it can be tragic. But in the large view - it's nothing more than a "super-flu".

Flu's don't affect the brain or the heart.  This does.

[Valkorado]

Considering what we have learned I find it astonishing that some still question whether this virus is infectious and deadly, or even if it should be considered pandemic!  They say the only people getting seriously ill and dying are the elderly walking dead or dregs of society like homeless junkies.   Maybe some obese folks will perish as well.  Good riddance!  

Some are so confused they still refer to COVID as just another flu!  Some think it's fake news altogether.

Interesting world we find ourselves living in.  Indeed.

[Jersey mike]

Considering what we have learned I find it astonishing that some still question whether this virus is infectious and deadly, or even if it should be considered a pandemic!  Some are so confused they still refer to it as just another flu!  Some think it's fake news altogether.

Interesting world we're living in.

And this is why it’s good to have open discussion.

The virus isn’t fake, the severity of the virus is I’m my opinion. The role the media has played in keeping people scared is the news here, but that’s not the topic of conversation.

As I posted in a response last night, if this virus is really the killer it’s being portrayed as, why aren’t there hundreds or thousands or even just dozens of homeless being found dead in alleys or on the sidewalks, parks, empty buildings, or subways, anywhere they can or usually flop.

They all live the least healthy lifestyle. Combined negative forces working against them would make them highly susceptible.

Drug use, alcoholism, poor hygiene, poor diets, little to no health care, dismal living conditions, poor sanitary habits, lack of clean clothes, lack of new or even if any use of masks, social distancing...highly doubtful, hand washing or sanitizing..yeah right. Maybe they’re the ones living the right lifestyle.

[Alien]

You bring up a good point regarding the homeless.  We need to understand why that population isn't showing higher fatality rates because you're right, by all conventional wisdom, they should be.  This means that there are risk factors that we don't know about. 

[scooperhsd]

The homeless (by definition almost) spend a great deal of time outside. It has been shown that the C19 doesn't transmit too well in open air environments. It will be interesting this winter when these people will seek shelter against what promises to be a colder than normal winter for the eastern half of the country.

[Valkorado]

I'd wager that the rate homeless get sick with C-19 is right on on par with folks in other demographics of our society.  It's a virus, it really doesn't care if you reek to high heaven or bathe regularly.  I'd also say the homeless aren't dying in droves on the streets because they do what folks do when they are feeling ill enough to seek medical attention.  Instead of just curling up in a ball and coughing themselves to death they seek help. Hospitals won't turn them away.  Illegal immigrants know how to readily acquire medical care here, do you really think the homeless haven't figured that one out?

You said the severity of the virus is what you question.  I guess the severity on a given individual would have to be determined by acquiring the virus.  200,000 plus have found it to be particularly severe.  I hope myself and those I care for won't have to personally discover its severity.  I take a few precautions.

That said I am not afraid, whether "the media" wants me to be or not.

[Jersey mike]

The homeless (by definition almost) spend a great deal of time outside. It has been shown that the C19 doesn't transmit too well in open air environments. It will be interesting this winter when these people will seek shelter against what promises to be a colder than normal winter for the eastern half of the country.

Ok, that’s a good assessment the outside aspect.

I still think that set of society would be very susceptible but I see your point.

[Jersey mike]

I'd wager that the rate homeless get sick with C-19 is right on on par with folks in other demographics of our society.  It's a virus, it really doesn't care if you reek to high heaven or bathe regularly.  I'd also say the homeless aren't dying in droves on the streets because they do what folks do when they are feeling ill enough to seek medical attention.  Instead of just curling up in a ball and coughing themselves to death they seek help. Hospitals won't turn them away.  Illegal immigrants know how to readily acquire medical care here, do you really think the homeless haven't figured that one out?

You said the severity of the virus is what you question.  I guess the severity on a given individual would have to be determined by acquiring the virus.  200,000 plus have found it to be particularly severe.  I hope myself and those I care for won't have to personally discover its severity.  I take a few precautions.

That said I am not afraid, whether "the media" wants me to be or not.

What about the hand washing and mask wearing? How many drug addicted and alcoholics will willingly go to the hospital.

200+ K sounds like a big number when tossed around like that but put into perspective out of 330,000,000 is pretty low. There’s no stopping death. Death will find you the same as sickness and disease it’s pretty much inevitable, it’s whether or not it finds you sooner or later.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'd wager that the rate homeless get sick with C-19 is right on on par with folks in other demographics of our society.  It's a virus, it really doesn't care if you reek to high heaven or bathe regularly.  I'd also say the homeless aren't dying in droves on the streets because they do what folks do when they are feeling ill enough to seek medical attention.  Instead of just curling up in a ball and coughing themselves to death they seek help. Hospitals won't turn them away.  Illegal immigrants know how to readily acquire medical care here, do you really think the homeless haven't figured that one out?

You said the severity of the virus is what you question.  I guess the severity on a given individual would have to be determined by acquiring the virus.  200,000 plus have found it to be particularly severe.  I hope myself and those I care for won't have to personally discover its severity.  I take a few precautions.

That said I am not afraid, whether "the media" wants me to be or not.

What about the hand washing and mask wearing? How many drug addicted and alcoholics will willingly go to the hospital.

200+ K sounds like a big number when tossed around like that but put into perspective out of 330,000,000 is pretty low. There’s no stopping death. Death will find you the same as sickness and disease it’s pretty much inevitable, it’s whether or not it finds you sooner or later.

You do realize the 200,000 number would be likely much higher without the mitigation that has been done ? Does 1-2 million sound like a big number when tossed around ?

[Valkorado]

I'd wager that the rate homeless get sick with C-19 is right on on par with folks in other demographics of our society.  It's a virus, it really doesn't care if you reek to high heaven or bathe regularly.  I'd also say the homeless aren't dying in droves on the streets because they do what folks do when they are feeling ill enough to seek medical attention.  Instead of just curling up in a ball and coughing themselves to death they seek help. Hospitals won't turn them away.  Illegal immigrants know how to readily acquire medical care here, do you really think the homeless haven't figured that one out?

You said the severity of the virus is what you question.  I guess the severity on a given individual would have to be determined by acquiring the virus.  200,000 plus have found it to be particularly severe.  I hope myself and those I care for won't have to personally discover its severity.  I take a few precautions.

That said I am not afraid, whether "the media" wants me to be or not.

What about the hand washing and mask wearing? How many drug addicted and alcoholics will willingly go to the hospital.

200+ K sounds like a big number when tossed around like that but put into perspective out of 330,000,000 is pretty low. There’s no stopping death. Death will find you the same as sickness and disease it’s pretty much inevitable, it’s whether or not it finds you sooner or later.

Five to one, one in five...

On this we agree.   No doubt about it!

[Jersey mike]

I'd wager that the rate homeless get sick with C-19 is right on on par with folks in other demographics of our society.  It's a virus, it really doesn't care if you reek to high heaven or bathe regularly.  I'd also say the homeless aren't dying in droves on the streets because they do what folks do when they are feeling ill enough to seek medical attention.  Instead of just curling up in a ball and coughing themselves to death they seek help. Hospitals won't turn them away.  Illegal immigrants know how to readily acquire medical care here, do you really think the homeless haven't figured that one out?

You said the severity of the virus is what you question.  I guess the severity on a given individual would have to be determined by acquiring the virus.  200,000 plus have found it to be particularly severe.  I hope myself and those I care for won't have to personally discover its severity.  I take a few precautions.

That said I am not afraid, whether "the media" wants me to be or not.

What about the hand washing and mask wearing? How many drug addicted and alcoholics will willingly go to the hospital.

200+ K sounds like a big number when tossed around like that but put into perspective out of 330,000,000 is pretty low. There’s no stopping death. Death will find you the same as sickness and disease it’s pretty much inevitable, it’s whether or not it finds you sooner or later.

You do realize the 200,000 number would be likely much higher without the mitigation that has been done ? Does 1-2 million sound like a big number when tossed around ?

3,330,000 = 1%

99% still live.

Great odds in my book.

[Valkorado]

90% (estimated) still unexposed.

[Jersey mike]

90% (estimated) still unexposed.

The odds are still in my favor.

The more exposure the more we get to herd immunity. The more we get people out and about, back to normal the faster we get this virus in check.

Luck for all of us, China “now has” a serum. Between China and Russia we’re all in good shape. I’m highly optimistic those 2 countries will help.

Realistically speaking though I’ll be watching how things go in Florida since they’re going full throttle on reopening without restrictions.

A spike will be reported, how extreme will be the question.

Sweden is still kicking butt and chugging along, reporting single digit deaths since the middle of July.

[Willow]

...  All the math in the world is usless when someone you know is sick or dead.  

The numbers are meaningless because the risk factors aren't understood.  There are many cases of elderly people with multiple underlying conditions becoming sick with this virus, and recovering completely.  At the same time, there are cases of young, healthy people dying very quickly.  
...
This is whyTrump's continued lies and disregard for science or safety around this virus really piss me off. 

So the numbers are meaningless?  They're what really is meaningful.  If personal experience is more meaningful perhaps the mandates should have been only those who know someone who has died of COVID-19 must wear a mask.  Businesses may stay open but those who have known someone who died of COVID-19 must stay out.

Honestly personal experience affects our feelings but it doesn't change the factual reality.

You and some others keep harping on how the President lied about COVID-19.  He didn't.  Some folks are simply determined to call anything with which they disagree a lie.

At least three times the "experts" have decided the models upon which they built the science were improperly built.  Were the experts lying when they gave advice based upon models filled with flawed information?  The folks who thought the mitigation measures of social distancing, closing down businesses and putting people out of work would be less damaging that losing 0.06 percent of the population, were they lying or just mistaken?  The people who claim the President lied when he didn't, are they lying or just blindly obsessed?

Truthfully, all this lying also pisses me off.  I've decided to vote against all those liars in the upcoming elections and I'm going to thumb my nose at those liars who can't put together a effective model.         

[carolinarider09]

  What Willow Said!

[The emperor has no clothes]

...  All the math in the world is usless when someone you know is sick or dead.  

The numbers are meaningless because the risk factors aren't understood.  There are many cases of elderly people with multiple underlying conditions becoming sick with this virus, and recovering completely.  At the same time, there are cases of young, healthy people dying very quickly.  
...
This is whyTrump's continued lies and disregard for science or safety around this virus really piss me off. 

You and some others keep harping on how the President lied about COVID-19.  He didn't.       

Oh, he lied alright. Plenty of times. And no amount of lying for the Dear Leader is going to change that. But, continue trying, if you must.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

[Willow]

Oh, he lied alright. Plenty of times. And no amount of lying for the Dear Leader is going to change that. But, continue trying, if you must.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

The Atlantic?  Really?  I read through just enough of the bullshit to see it pretty well demonstrates what I described of those obsessed with claiming every statement with which they disagree in or out of context is a lie.

I'm ceasing my comments at this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh, he lied alright. Plenty of times. And no amount of lying for the Dear Leader is going to change that. But, continue trying, if you must.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

The Atlantic?  Really?  I read through just enough of the bullshit to see it pretty well demonstrates what I described of those obsessed with claiming every statement with which they disagree in or out of context is a lie.

I'm ceasing my comments at this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road.  

There's plenty more sources. Take your pick.


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6510/1409.full

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-12/column-trump-woodward-book-lies-covid-pandemic

https://prospect.org/coronavirus/unsanitized-trump-lies-covid-pretty-transparent-woodward-book/

[The emperor has no clothes]

[Willow]

There's plenty more sources. Take your pick.


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6510/1409.full

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-12/column-trump-woodward-book-lies-covid-pandemic

https://prospect.org/coronavirus/unsanitized-trump-lies-covid-pretty-transparent-woodward-book/

More of the same stuff.  These three are all articles on Woodward's book.

I won't engage you further on this subject.  You are beyond logic.