Bridging the Creek (Construction Question)

[carolinarider09]

It would have to have a foot loop and my wife would never ever use it. 

[Rams]

While I still prefer a cable or suspension bridge, if you're determined to bridge the creek with wood, have you considered acquiring a couple (or three) of telephone poles and placing them across the creek (side by side)?   
Three would be even better.   They should last long after you quit using that bridge.

Rams

[Patrick]

The phone poles is a good idea.

[carolinarider09]

Now the idea of phone/power poles did not cross my mind.  A good idea.

These poles are routinely replaced as they age.  I think the primary reason is the in ground part of pole begins to deteriorate.

And, since they don't climb them as much as they use too, the would be a good choice.

I will check with my local power company (small town, are replacing poles not often but they said they plan to) and see if I can acquire some.

The only issue is transport from acquisition to my home and then to the site.  My main utility trailer is only 10 feet long and I can extend a pole four feet out the front, so that means I could easily transport an an 18' pole, transporting a 24' plus pole could be a little more trouble. 

But I will keep the power pole on the top of the list. 

Sort of like the issue with used railroad ties and using them for anchor points on each end.  The used ones should be good for another 10 years in my application.

[hubcapsc]

I was talking to a forester about yellow pine. I wish it was easier to
buy the good really dense stuff. He told me much of the really good
clear long-leaf stuff goes to power poles.

All our power is buried. The extra ten acres we got when the family
next door sold out had some power poles on it. I cut them down and
used them as end-posts on Carolyn's barn...

I might rather have good 8x8s than tapered power poles though...
good 8x8s would have few knots, knots compromise something
that is going to span. Sometimes 4x4s, 6x6s and 8x8s are intended
to be poles and be strong in compression with less thought to being
used to span a distance.

-Mike

[carolinarider09]

I believe your logic is correct on the 6x6 and 8x8.  The are good for vertical supports.  I have 6x6's for support on my two out buildings. 

I did a short look up on telephone poles and they appear to be available for re-sale.  Just have to find some locally and see what they cost.

[h13man]

The steel I-bean idea did cross my mind.  The only reason that wood would be my preferred method (logs or treated lumber) is that its easier to work with. 

While I have a welder, getting power down to this are would be difficult.  And while i have an oxy acetylene torch which could be used, it has not been used in some time.  Just used it to cut some angle iron and build a small trailer some years ago.

Still investigation options. 

Once the beams are bolted in place, you can use bolt in supports to maintain width uniformity. The bolt in versions can be constructed off site. Dragging the beams to site is the major obstacle I see.

[Flat6Valk]

Forget about 2x6 lumber. Sides 2x12 and a center runner 2x10. Well treated. Use tech boards for the top to get long life in that environment. At each end you need some sort of water shedding foundation. Not know your soil I would say dig out holes for round form filled with concrete 4 ft deep. Also fill in area around both ends with gravel to shed water.

[Patrick]

I agree about 2x6 or 2x8. They're just not heavy enough even when sandwiched. To my thinking 8x8 would be a minimum and then at least 3 rather than 2 would be needed.

For a 24ft span my thoughts are that 3 [ with ply] or 4  [without ply] 2x12s stuck together would be needed with 3 spans/joists.  2 would be OK if they were set at about the width of the tires.

The ends need to be set off the ground on block/stone/concrete regardless of how this done.

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for the information. 

My intent is to put the ends above ground.  However, a 4x4x4 concrete pad is what, about 1.5 cu ft of concrete.  easy to get with a concrete truck (well sort of) but not easy to get down to the location. 

I will look into the 2x12's.   I have not talked with my local hardware store yet to see what can be "special ordered" in 24 foot lengths. 

Only other issue is that most treated lumber, with the exception of "posts" are not rated for ground contact, so while they will be on a pad (not directly on the ground), that is one concern using "treated" lumber. 

Having three beans across is probably a better idea. 

Oh, I did send an email the address on one of the first posts that provided a "kit" for building.  Have not heard from them.

[hubcapsc]

Only other issue is that most treated lumber, with the exception of "posts" are not rated for ground contact

Check Home Depot. Everything that's treated (that I've checked) is treated for ground
contact. 2x4s, plywood, all of it. Who knows if their custom ordered stuff would be.

-Mike "just take your glasses and read the little bar code labels on each board..."

[carolinarider09]

Don't have a Home Depot in my small town but have a Lowes.  All of the treated lumber in that store, with the exception of the 4x4s and 6x6s says not treated for ground contact. 

If  remember correctly the labels are slightly different colors.  I have a couple labels and maybe one is off a 2x12.  I check again to make sure I was not mistaken. 

[hubcapsc]

Don't have a Home Depot in my small town but have a Lowes.  All of the treated lumber in that store, with the exception of the 4x4s and 6x6s says not treated for ground contact. 

If  remember correctly the labels are slightly different colors.  I have a couple labels and maybe one is off a 2x12.  I check again to make sure I was not mistaken. 

I live in a smallish town, and we have a smallish Home Depot and smallish Lowes. None of Lowe's lumber
is treated for ground contact, other than the posts... I sometimes wonder if that is how they avoid
having to "beat the other guy's price on identical items" for lumber...

-Mike

[carolinarider09]

Ok,  checked some old tags from wood I used on my deck.

The wood purchased at Lowes is not rated for ground contact.  The wood I purchased at the local hardware store was "Prime Select".  Same basic dimensions but it is rated for ground contact. 

I was not concerned about ground contact on the 2x6's for the porch decking but though the "select" might well be less likely to wrap and otherwise change dimensions.  Sort of but.... 

[carolinarider09]

Well, I finally got around to calling my local electric CoOp.  Yes they have telephone (power) poles available.  They are free.  You just have to come and get them. 

The place is about 6 miles from my house. 

A couple of caveats.  One, you have to pick them up.  Two, you cannot cut them on their site.  That is, you have to load the poles, as is and remove them from their site.

I will go by and have a look at the poles to see what quality they are, how long they really are and ask questions about loading (will they load them on my trailer or do I have to make that work).

Which brings up the last and maybe most important question.  How in the heck is the average guy suppose to transport a 24 -32 (don't know for sure) pole? 

I have a two wheel 10 foot trailer.  So.....  I could imagine loading the pole on the trailer where it sticks out four feet in front of the trailer (almost touching the vehicle) and sticking out maybe 10 feet out ht back of the trailer.  It would seem the the trailer would be terribly implanted. 

I could try and rent a trailer that might work.  I could maybe try and hire someone to move the poles (I would have to get at least four just because you always need a spare right). 

One problem sort of solved and one more presented. 

[Rams]

Well, I finally got around to calling my local electric CoOp.  Yes they have telephone (power) poles available.  They are free.  You just have to come and get them.  

The place is about 6 miles from my house.  

A couple of caveats.  One, you have to pick them up.  Two, you cannot cut them on their site.  That is, you have to load the poles, as is and remove them from their site.

I will go by and have a look at the poles to see what quality they are, how long they really are and ask questions about loading (will they load them on my trailer or do I have to make that work).

Which brings up the last and maybe most important question.  How in the heck is the average guy suppose to transport a 24 -32 (don't know for sure) pole?  

I have a two wheel 10 foot trailer.  So.....  I could imagine loading the pole on the trailer where it sticks out four feet in front of the trailer (almost touching the vehicle) and sticking out maybe 10 feet out ht back of the trailer.  It would seem the the trailer would be terribly implanted.  

I could try and rent a trailer that might work.  I could maybe try and hire someone to move the poles (I would have to get at least four just because you always need a spare right).  

One problem sort of solved and one more presented.  

Well, if'n I was there, I'd be happy to haul them for you but, I'm not there.
I have several gooseneck trailers that could easily transport those poles.  
My moto is, where there is the will, there is a way. 

I do have an idea for you though, check your PMs

Rams

[carolinarider09]

Got it, makes prefect sense.  No to make it work, after I check the poles. 

[Rams]

Or, you could just go to a salvage yard and get an old truck frame, winch it across your creek, put some boards on it and be done with it.  Would not be real pretty but should last a very long time.

Rams

[carolinarider09]

I will have to put the old truck frame on the back burner, as "just in case" solution. 

But, another thought that had not crossed my mind. 

[Jess from VA]

I've always been a fan of redneck engineering.

How about go down there and chain one to the back of the truck and drag it home, at 0300?  6 miles. 

Really, it seems silly to not let you cut them up on site (just in half).  You can promise to do a super clean up job.

[Rams]

I've always been a fan of redneck engineering.

How about go down there and chain one to the back of the truck and drag it home, at 0300?  6 miles. 

Really, it seems silly to not let you cut them up on site (just in half).  You can promise to do a super clean up job.

That's one way.   Ya think local LEOs would have a problem tracking him down?   

When court costs, bail and lawyers fees are considered, it might be cheaper to just pay someone (like me) to haul them for him. 

Rams

[Patrick]

How about stopping by a towing service and having a chat ? They could probably snake them up on their roll-deck and set them just where you want them.

[Rams]

How about stopping by a towing service and having a chat ? They could probably snake them up on their roll-deck and set them just where you want them.

   Ya beat me to it but, that's where I was going....   

Rams

[carolinarider09]

Thanks guys.   I was sort of thinking of something like that but had not gotten to a point where I would pinpoint a provider. 

Funny thing.  There is a towing service just a few blocks away from the CoOp and its on the way to and from there to my house. 

Round trip, about 15 miles max.  If I like the poles, I will stop by and see if they might be interested.

This might actually work out. 

The only issue I might have is getting them down to the creek.  I can easily tie off one end to the tractor's three point hitch.  That would give me elevation, I would just need something to put under the back of the pole.  Had to leave a long drag ditch in my gravel roadways. 

It could be a simple thing.  I have a small trailer I built 20 plus years ago.  Its not road worthy but the tires are simple wheelbarrow type tires and I think the shaft is a 1" shaft.  So, for a couple of bucks I could build a simple tow thingy to to get it with in 100 feet of the crossing.

[Patrick]

Seems simple. Drag the poles from tow truck to creek with tractor. If you're worried about about skid marks then a simple cradle made from your little trailer axle should easily work.

[carolinarider09]

Yes, it is getting simpler it seems.  Now to see the poles and talk to the towing service. 

Could be a fun week coming up. 

The information here is fabulous.  I will keep thread updated as I move forward. 

[Rams]

Yes, it is getting simpler it seems.  Now to see the poles and talk to the towing service. 

Could be a fun week coming up. 

The information here is fabulous.  I will keep thread updated as I move forward. 

Wait, it appears you think this advice is free?  There's at least a buck two ninety-eight worth of great advice here buddy.   Be check'n your mail for a bill. 

Rams   

[carolinarider09]

Update:

Rams,  Never got the bill 

Ok, this week I went by the local Cooperative to have a look at their used poles.

I was directed to a place in the back of a well laid out yard where the old posts were suppose to be kept.  There were two. 

One was very, very nice and fairly large in diameter.  The other was on very bad shape. 

There were only two poles there.  I could have used the first one but not the second one.  And if I got one at a time, there would be a large probability of them being signficnaly different in size (mainly diameter). 

So, bottom line, they can be had, but only over a period fo time.  Getting them moved out will still be an issue.   One at a time would be expensive if I hired someone to move them. 

The building is closed right now due to COVID so, all communications is over the phone.

Will keep and eye out and maybe go back once a month to see what changes. 

[Rams]

Well shoot.

Tell ya what, I'm trying to buy some property that sits next to mine.   If I get it bought, you can have all the huge pine trees located on it.   I'll even let you cut them to the length you want as long as you clean up the mess.   We're talking big pines.   No, they aren't treated poles but, they would be there for a significant time.    

Now, I just need to get that property bought.   Will let you know if that happens.   Don't hold yer breath.  
Think'n someone is gonna have to die for me to buy that piece of dirt.

That old truck/bus/RV/trailer frame idea might become a viable option.

Rams

[carolinarider09]

Jess asked for an update. 

My wife and I (and our dog) were out walking, as we do several times a day, along the creek.  It resides at the back (most northern part) of our property.  The creek is feed by runoff so its not always filled with running water but there is almost always some pools of water in there.

I posted a link to a YouTube video below. 

Anyway, while we were out there walking the neighbor and his son (I believe) motored up on their side of the property line in an ATV.  We had a short conversation and he mentioned that he might have access to some old steel I beams.  I said, I might be interested.   

We shall see. 

I have a TIG welder I have not used since I built the small trailer many years ago.  I think it still works. 

And yes, I have some fallen trees I could use, but moving them would be very, very difficult. 

I believe I will have to either use poles that are designed for a Pole Barn, or some 6x6 treated posts that I have used for building my two "Sheds". 

The maximum weight on the bridge will be limited to 300 pounds (me and the dog or wife and the dog). 

Yes its still in the works. 

https://youtu.be/bsPGe85Esno

[gordonv]

Moving the trees on your property should be easy. A block and tackle. Might not be fast, unless you use the tractor to pull, and some runners/rollers under the poles/trees to slide along. Old world technology.

About getting the telephone poles, what's wrong with your 10' trailer, get one or more (weight) onto it, roll it off their property, and then cut the pole in half and pull it up and balanced onto your small trainer. Again, a block and tackle, maybe a second helping vehicle to pull the rope, with tackle only.

[carolinarider09]

Yes the block and tackle idea has occurred to be and I have considered it.  The issue is rather than having some nice 12" or so hardwoods that are down, most of them are 24" or so.   But its still an option.

Can't cut the poles since I need to bridge a 24' span (well the creek is not 24' but the span I want to use is 24' in my minds eye. 

And, if they had the power poles there, I'd have talked to the wrecker guy across the road about getting them moved.  He would only be able to move them onto my property but I can get them down to the creek with my little trailer and tracker.  Probably not a one man job but I could get help. 

But your comments are welcomed.  Any ideas are welcome.  One day I will not be able to climb up and down the creek banks to get across and while getting across is not mandatory, it is my property. 

And there is a spot to cross the creek that is fairly easy but.....  Its down stream and I would like one upstream also. 

[Binkie]

You are over thinking this. Use the KISS approach.

[carolinarider09]

You are over thinking this. Use the KISS approach.

Yes I agree I probably am, but, at the moment I have the time. 

I just have to be able to turn of the process.  The older I get the more I find it harder to let some things go mentally. 

[Kep]

I've move 1000 lb. + rooftop HVAC units accross roofs before with 2" pvc pipe placed under them as "rollers"...I could push them with one finger....so I'm sure with some rollers under the poles  , they would be very manageable with an ATV ..just have to keep moving them from back to front under the poles as you pull.

[carolinarider09]

OnaWingandaPrayer:

Thats a thought.  I will check and see if there are any around.  Transportation still an issue...


Jess,

Don't have a tree I would trust in that area.  Have some tall an big enough but they are some very old hardwoods and I think they have "internal" strength issues.