De-smog

[~ Ron ~]

Pros & Cons????

[Challenger]

Pros.
       For me, it got rid of annoying ticking pare valve and about 10 ft of cracked and deteriorating vac lines. Engine much cleaner looking now.

Cons.
         ????

[mello dude]

With the Redeye kit, it's an easy job. Overall it's a less maintenance item and possibly reduce deceleration popping.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,111525.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,108136.0.html

https://redeye.ecrater.com/

[Pluggy]

My 2003 has no modifications and runs perfectly.  No desmog kit.   If it ain't broke.....

[98valk]

will drop three lbs of useless weight.

[Jess from VA]

Principally.... that quarter mile of vacuum lines will eventually rot/degrade and then so will performance (and this is regionally/weather-wise more or less relevant).  You get no increase in performance, only longer term reliability.

The down side is if you screw it up (the desmog), you can have troubles now.

Of course, I always enjoy thumbing my nose at G regualtors.

Contrary to their BS propaganda, this will not save the planet.

There used to be some worry that the more stringent (ridiculous) State annual safety inspections might require all OE crap to pass.  That never happened.  

[Bighead]

My 2003 has no modifications and runs perfectly.  No desmog kit.   If it ain't broke.....

You know I was in the same boat. But when I had atticrat aka Bob do his magic why not much cleaner look plus no tick tick tick from pair valves.

[mello dude]

I done it on most bikes I've owned, and for the Valk, it was more of a matter of "while I'm at it" - simple stuff, its much easier to work around on the bike now....

[gordonv]

I think there really isn't any, one way of the other.

Hard to see, but both of my pipes going to the underside of the head where 50%-75% plugged, at 110K miles.



What would happen at 100% plugged? Most likely nothing.

No better performance or mpg. Just a possible vacuum leak in the future. If you have a leak now, DO IT.

[98valk]

here is my top desmog plugs. Used shortened 9/16" bolts. Filled the holes with quicksteel. Then some hi-temp silicone and installed the bolts.
did this to the original heads. zero problems even after 50k miles.

bottom aluminum desmog plate. just fill the hole and plate surface with hi-temp silicone.

did this to the original heads. zero problems even after 50k miles.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,105991.0.html

[pokrovsky]

My 2003 has no modifications and runs perfectly.  No desmog kit.   If it ain't broke.....

My 2003 only had 6500 miles on the odometer when I did the de-smog. Everything was working fine and I was of the same opinion, but did it anyway when was changing the exhaust system for Mike T's pipes (and headers), so did it while I was in there.
No improvements but as many have said, just an additional peace of mind and less things to go wrong with the aging rubber lines/hoses.

[troy11533]

gordonv How do you know when they are leaking or even clogged?

[Led]

The VERY first thing I did, when I purchased the bike.  I thought....WOW!!
Just look at how much JUNK I took off!!!
Engine nice and clean now.......

[hueco]

All pros. No cons for me. Replacing cracked leaking vacuum hoses . Cleaning ,replacing slow jets. Running like crap. Got rid of feet and feet of  problem inducing hoses and pipes and valves.  After desmog. No regrets. No problems. 

[gordonv]

gordonv How do you know when they are leaking or even clogged?

I don't know if anything would change when clogged, it would be just like removing them?

As for vacuum leaking, don't you get exhaust popping and or running rough?

[Bob D]

Is there anyone in Las Vegas or at least close to having experience with a desmog?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Is there anyone in Las Vegas or at least close to having experience with a desmog?

Bob, I'm about 150 miles away. We've got a couple members in Henderson, but I don't remember if they've done it. What did you need ?

[Bob D]

Maybe just some guidance. My concern is due to the age of the bike I will break something, and with my luck probably a component Honda has discontinued. I haven’t ordered it yet but I’m assuming Redeye includes detailed instructions with the kit? If you’ve desmogged your bike, how long does it take to complete not withstanding any major setbacks? Since it’s been 115 degrees here it might be a good time for this project before prime riding weather this fall.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe just some guidance. My concern is due to the age of the bike I will break something, and with my luck probably a component Honda has discontinued. I haven’t ordered it yet but I’m assuming Redeye includes detailed instructions with the kit? If you’ve desmogged your bike, how long does it take to complete not withstanding any major setbacks? Since it’s been 115 degrees here it might be a good time for this project before prime riding weather this fall.

I haven't used the Redeye kit. But, I've heard nothing but good things about it. If a person was experienced at removing and installing the air box, and wanted to hurry and get it done, I'm sure it could be done in a couple hours. Myself, it took me all day. Working in my uncooled garage this time of year, it would likely take longer. I don't know if it's because I recently retired or what, but the heat has been rough to deal with this year. In my opinion, none of the work is all that hard. The air box is probably the most tedious though.
 I would be more than willing to lend a hand , but I'm not sure I'm up for it this time of year. I would recommend having some new fuel line and a petcock vacuum line. Redeye makes a good petcock vacuum line. If you don't have an electric fuel shutoff (DanMarc), this would be a good time to do it while everything is already apart. And an air filter.
 I'm going to be up your way Wednesday for a doctor's appointment for my wife. And will be back again likely next month. If I can be of any help, just let me know.  

If you haven't seen this, I think it's pretty helpful.
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/desmog.htm

[RonW]

..... My concern is due to the age of the bike I will break something, and with my luck probably a component Honda has discontinued.

Age isn't an issue with the parts that's removed, but there's a few things you should be knowledgeable about before doing the desmog. For example, are you gonna remove or drop the mufflers for easier access to the bottom desmog thingie (arrows, below)?  If so how do you tighten the muffler nuts to 7 ft-lbs. Too tight and you break the muffler studs. You also need new o-rings for the mufflers if you remove them.

As meathead said about the air cleaner ..... so read up on re-installing the air cleaner.

[Fazer]

I had to loosen one side of the exhaust, don't remember which, to I could get the one demsog "manifold" off.  I did the complete desmog using the guide in the shoptalk.  To re-install the air box, I used the zip tie method and it went very easy.

Bob Smith, Attic Rat, told me it was not necessary to replace the crush washers in the exhaust whenever it was removed.  I did not know this when I desmoged and did not replace them anyway.  No ill effects or popping.  You do have to re-tighten with a 1/4" ratchet and wobbly extension after a couple of hundred miles.

[mello dude]

Having done this with the Redeye kit..  - a few notes.
Some basics....
- Tank off
- Aircleaner box off..
- Some people have said they did it with the exhaust on, but that would make it difficult.
  --- My exhaust was already off, so it make the job easier.

The Redeye instructions are not that great, kinda over detailed to get the big picture.
Saumuels video is very good and after watching that, it was like "oh, now I get it"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBnA57lEu_0&app=desktop

---
Job related stuff...
- Unbolting the smog pump and pulling the hoses is easy.
   > The one bolt under the carb cross member is a tight fit, I needed a quarter drive socket to get it.
- The guy in the video uses a dremel in spots to cut the air pipes. Highly recommend dont do that. Instead, grab a vise grip and crush flat an area you need to break first. Then grab a high quality wire cutters, or tin snips or pipe cut tool to finally break it. --- A dremel is just to risky, one slip and you have ruined some part on the bike.
> The replacement parts from Redeye are top notch. But... the air cleaner plug is too big for a good fit.
--- I used an 8 x 40mm bolt with smearing of permatex on it to seal it up...
   -- I had to "clean up" the hole with a 5/16" drill to get it to fit.
 --- As kinda of a do over, if so, I discovered Lowe's actually stocks 7mm bolts, so I would try one of these first, so I dont have to drill out the air cleaner hole.
--- Do the Air Cleaner hole plug up, BEFORE reinstall.
- Another note -- the vacuum replacement seal hose plugs are wimpy, I tore a couple on install, ended up using other hose that I have in stock....

--- Really not a hard job, the kit is quality, I bet the 2nd time, I could do it in 4 hours. -- I'm a perfectionist foole, so I go slow on stuff, I think everthing out.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,108136.0.html

Go for it!  
 

[The emperor has no clothes]

As to removing exhaust, or loosening it. I didn't need to. It's going to depend on the variety of different tools you have. I wouldn't remove or loosen unless you have to.

[mello dude]

As to removing exhaust, or loosening it. I didn't need to. It's going to depend on the variety of different tools you have. I wouldn't remove or loosen unless you have to.

Do you guys use a torque wrench for a header reinstall?  (7 ft-lbs?)

115 degrees? Holy xxx! --Its 78 here... 

[Bob D]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I do have a pretty good set of tools so I’ll try and do the job without removing the exhaust but I’ve had it off before to R & R my rear tire so I can do it again if I have to. I did have to tighten the exhaust nuts in increments as they would loosen a bit after a few rides but I certainly didn’t want to snap a stud off by over tightening. I have no idea how much torque is on them as I had to use a wobbly on some. Anywho, haven’t lost any nuts and everything is quiet so I guess they’re tight enough. I’ll order the kit and go for it!!!

[yrunvs]

As to removing exhaust, or loosening it. I didn't need to. It's going to depend on the variety of different tools you have. I wouldn't remove or loosen unless you have to.

Do you guys use a torque wrench for a header reinstall?  (7 ft-lbs?)

115 degrees? Holy xxx! --Its 78 here...  

Apparently, From what I gather here folks twist off header bolts willy nilly by using a torque wrench but my experience is 7 ft lb on a torque wrench has worked. You may have to re-torque 3 or 4 times.    

[98valk]

As to removing exhaust, or loosening it. I didn't need to. It's going to depend on the variety of different tools you have. I wouldn't remove or loosen unless you have to.

Do you guys use a torque wrench for a header reinstall?  (7 ft-lbs?)

115 degrees? Holy xxx! --Its 78 here... 

only use a bar type or digital torque wrench, never ever a clicker style.  I tend to follow the newton lbs readings, and have used the Quinn Digital Torque Adapter with great success.

[Bighead]

Never used a tourqe wrench on those as you can almost tighten to 7lbs with your fingers. Just snug them down then  check in the 100 miles then 100 miles after that.

[mello dude]

As to removing exhaust, or loosening it. I didn't need to. It's going to depend on the variety of different tools you have. I wouldn't remove or loosen unless you have to.

Do you guys use a torque wrench for a header reinstall?  (7 ft-lbs?)

115 degrees? Holy xxx! --Its 78 here... 

only use a bar type or digital torque wrench, never ever a clicker style.  I tend to follow the newton lbs readings, and have used the Quinn Digital Torque Adapter with great success.

I have a clicker that goes 25 - 250 in-lbs - (2 to 20 ft-lbs) low range that works reasonable. Curious as to why dont use a clicker...

Never used a tourqe wrench on those as you can almost tighten to 7lbs with your fingers. Just snug them down then  check in the 100 miles then 100 miles after that.

With a 1/4" drive, I can come close to 7 ft-lbs by feel, I may go that way anyhoo...

[Ramie]

It's been a couple of years since I did the standard I use to own but I don't think I ever had to take the exhaust loose.  I was able to lay under there and remove the smog pipe with a little effort and the right tools as Meathead suggested.

[98valk]

As to removing exhaust, or loosening it. I didn't need to. It's going to depend on the variety of different tools you have. I wouldn't remove or loosen unless you have to.

Do you guys use a torque wrench for a header reinstall?  (7 ft-lbs?)

115 degrees? Holy xxx! --Its 78 here...  

only use a bar type or digital torque wrench, never ever a clicker style.  I tend to follow the newton lbs readings, and have used the Quinn Digital Torque Adapter with great success.

I have a clicker that goes 25 - 250 in-lbs - (2 to 20 ft-lbs) low range that works reasonable. Curious as to why dont use a clicker...

Never used a torqu

e wrench on those as you can almost tighten to 7lbs with your fingers. Just snug them down then  check in the 100 miles then 100 miles after that.

With a 1/4" drive, I can come close to 7 ft-lbs by feel, I may go that way anyhoo...

a clicker needs to be calibrated often. that's why so many break bolts using a clicker.

for the header bolts I put a beam type torque wrench on them the first time just to see low lite 7lbs was. after that I just hand tighten them. and then check them after a few hundred miles re-tighten as needed and then that was that.

Clicker Torque Wrench Accuracy, Calibration and Recalibration

Standard ISO 6789 covers the construction and calibration of hand-operated torque tools, including standard torque wrenches and even screwdriver-type torque wrenches.

The standard states that re-calibration for tools used within their specified limits should occur every 12 months. In cases where the tool is in use in an organization which has its own quality control procedures, then the calibration schedule can be arranged according to company standards.
https://www.hextechnology.com/articles/clicker-wrench-guide/

[RonW]

Don't forget to turn the clicker back to zero when finish using it or storing it. I bought a inch-lbs clicker for low torque bolts ..... 7 ft-lbs would be 84 inches.

[mello dude]

Sounds like for this OCD engineer geek foole, the low range torque wrench I have is fine.  

[RonW]

listen up, everybody should get a low end torque ranch.

[Gnarly]

listen up, everybody should get a low end torque ranch.

....I'm confused....here in Kenwacky, we call any 'low end torque ranch' a
F-A-R-M.

[The emperor has no clothes]

listen up, everybody should get a low end torque ranch.

....I'm confused....here in Kenwacky, we call any 'low end torque ranch' a
F-A-R-M.

up the road in Nevada they call them "bunny ranches"

[Tfrank59]

My 2003 has no modifications and runs perfectly.  No desmog kit.   If it ain't broke.....

ditto for my '98.  I've had the desmog kit now for 5 years sitting in my drawer, if I ever need it

[JimF2424]

I desmoged my bike about 3 months ago, a 1999 Tourer, desmoged and installed the Heat Sheild.  Heat sheild was a bit harder, but not to bad.

[John Schmidt]

I did it with the Schmidt kit. It involves a set of JB Kwik, my air driven hack saw, and a bit of patience.  After removing the tank and airbox I unbolt the central mess and toss it, along with all the associated tubing. Then fire up the compressor to use my hack saw to cut the pretty metal tubing that goes around the end and under the cylinder heads. Where they connect to the plug on top of the heads, I cut it off flush. Where it curves around under the heads to that little "thingy" underneath, I cut it off near the bottom of the tube where it starts the curve under. I don't bother to remove the thing under the head, not  needed. All the metal tubing I cut I merely fill with the JB Kwik, usually a couple layers, cap off the unused vacuum ports, and by the time you get the airbox and tank back on the JB Kwik has set and you're ready to ride. My cost is whatever the going price is for some JB Kwik. I use short pieces of the cut off rubber tubing to fill with some gasket sealer before running a small screw or bolt in, then slip it on the vacuum ports just uncovered. Pick a rainy day and give yourself a couple hours.

If you don't want to pull the tank/airbox...don't. Merely use some long needle nose pliers to remove the tubing connections. This will inactivate it, then cut & fill the metal tubes as described, cap the vacuum ports and you're done. Then, next time you have reason to have the tank/airbox off, unbolt the central unit and toss it.