Long Term Video Storage

[carolinarider09]

My question is what is a good reliable, long term storage location for video files  that I can control, keep in my hands and basically ensure that I can access the files whenever I wish.

I have lots (well many) raw videos I have taken on various road trips over the last 17 plus years. 

I have been storing them on an external hard drive and also in my iCloud storage.  The iCloud storage is remote and I have to trust them to maintain access so it would seem it is a choice that allows ease of access but may not be secure for the long term.

The external hard drive I have been using is not a solid state drive.  Therefore, it would seem, it has a limited lifetime and it can be dropped or otherwise damaged.

I have a solid state hard drive I have connected to another computer as I was sort of testing its reliability.  It has been reliable but, requires that i have an interface between it and the computer.   

Oh, I would be looking at something in the 1 TB range.  Sort of a plug and play kind of thing.  I would assume it would require a USB interface as that seems to be todays standard. 

[Willow]

You seem to be doing what is needed but I would not trust the "cloud".

A second external drive to "back up" the one you have would certainly reduce the risk of loss.  If either of those two external drives fail it would need to be immediately replaced.

[carolinarider09]

Willow, that is an option I had not considered but should have bene obvious. 

Question,  Is there a piece of software that could be used to look at "Drive One" and see what has changed and update "Drive Two" with the differences? 

And the only real benefit to the cloud is that I can access it wherever I have access to the internet. 

But... there are always upsides and downsides to all choices. 

[mello dude]

My question is what is a good reliable, long term storage location for video files  that I can control, keep in my hands and basically ensure that I can access the files whenever I wish.

I have lots (well many) raw videos I have taken on various road trips over the last 17 plus years. 

I have been storing them on an external hard drive and also in my iCloud storage.  The iCloud storage is remote and I have to trust them to maintain access so it would seem it is a choice that allows ease of access but may not be secure for the long term.

The external hard drive I have been using is not a solid state drive.  Therefore, it would seem, it has a limited lifetime and it can be dropped or otherwise damaged.

I have a solid state hard drive I have connected to another computer as I was sort of testing its reliability.  It has been reliable but, requires that i have an interface between it and the computer.   

Oh, I would be looking at something in the 1 TB range.  Sort of a plug and play kind of thing.  I would assume it would require a USB interface as that seems to be todays standard. 

A "Maybe"

https://www.smugmug.com/features

[RP#62]

Lots of ways to do this, depends on how much you want to spend.  I use a NAS as primary back up and a second external as the secondary backup.  The NAS I use has 4 bays with a 4TB hard drive in each bay. Its set up using a hybrid RAID so that any single drive can fail and you can pop in a new drive and it will rebuild it without loss of any data.  I use it for a video server and to store pictures.  As noted, they're also backed up and another drive.  I never have anything in less than two places and usually in three.  The secondary backup is kept in the safe and only connected to the PC during backup.

For keeping all the backups in sync, I use a program called Allway Sync.  Once setup, you click on one button and it compares the source folder with the target folder (the backup) and it propagates any changes (additions, revisions, deletions) since the last backup from the source to the target.  You can get it for free, but the free version only lets you do a backup every 30 days.  The pay version (which really isn't that expensive) lets you do a backup anytime you want.

-RP

[Serk]

Hard drives are currently very cheap....

For my precious memories, I use a combination of 2 different cloud options (Google Drive and Microsoft One Drive) plus 2 local on site storage backups (one "online" backup drive, and as it fills up, the filled one goes into one of the safes, then a new drive is placed into the "hot" online" storage), as well as automated backups to one of my NAS units in the house.....

[Robert]

I do not want a cloud backup and have image backup already but wanted something portable and fairly large and fast to load.

I found these 2 items work great, and you have to buy them separately and assemble them. USB 3.1 can plug it in up to 2tb of storage extremely portable and durable about the size of a pack of gum. The cable is bigger than the drive. Most can be used as a NAS and can also be plugged into a router that has the ability to act as network storage. They are pretty quick if you get the USB 3.1 versions.

I did not need a whole system back up just some critical files but could do a whole system with 2 tb of storage. If you need them secured they can also be encrypted and password encoded so no one but yourself can see the information if lost or stolen. They are extremely portable and durable since its the newest technology to replace rotating or ssd hard drives.

Im not sure if it will work but I believe it will if you have anything but an Apple phone you can plug this drive directly into the phone for the viewing and transfer of files on this drive or transfer from the phone to this drive. Apple makes you have proprietary software to do this but this drive is USB C.


ehua M.2 NVME SSD Enclosure Adapter USB 3.1 Gen 2 10Gbps to NVME PCI-e M-Key(B+M Key) USB C Solid State Drive External Enclosure Support UASP for SSD Size 2230/2242/2260/2280
Visit the Yehua Store

For versatility you can get a M2 drive card adapter for your computer if the computer is not current and does not have a spot for a M2 drive and use that as another hard drive mounted in your computer. This way if anything happens to your computer you can just take the card with the drive on it out or use it as the backup drive for your computer. Then you can mount it in one of these cases and have a running copy of your computer to boot in any computer.

This may be a bit more advanced but with 2tb of reliable storage you can partition this drive and have a image clone for more than one computer on this drive that is the size of a pack of gum

Samsung (MZ-V7S1T0B/AM) 970 EVO Plus SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YCDQ77M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-Plus-MZ-V7S1T0B/dp/B07MFZY2F2/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=samsung+m2+1tb&qid=1598526206&s=electronics&sr=1-2

Gave you a pick for size comparison and what it looks like. The cable is way more bulky than the drive and that drive has 1TB of storage on it. The USB drive next to it has about 15 gigs.

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for all the responses and information. 

Once upon a time, when I was still using a Microsoft Operating system I did have a (at least memory says I did) have a raid storage system in the computer (it was only two drives as I remember). 

Anyway, the term NAS has been used.  From what I can find it means Network Attached Storage. I found this from Seagate.

https://www.seagate.com/tech-insights/what-is-nas-master-ti/

I will have to do some more research.  Don't have a problem connecting it to my network. 

Question is, can I read the data from the drives without using a network.  In other words, if I lose the network connection, can I access the data on the drives using a standard method such as a USB cable?

[carolinarider09]

Ok.. I found more data on the NAS from PC Mag.  Seems like it also allows me to synch the NAS system to my cloud data which would be something that would seem to be worthy of note.

(2) (Network Attached Storage) A file server that connects to the network. A NAS contains the file sharing components of a server and generally does not run applications like a general-purpose computer. However, it is often designed to run NAS-related programs such as backup, cloud synchronization, streaming, surveillance and other services. NAS units generally contain a slimmed-down OS and file system, and they process I/O requests by supporting the popular file sharing protocols, primarily CIFS for Windows and NFS for Unix, Linux and Mac.

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/nas

[Robert]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YCDQ77M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-Plus-MZ-V7S1T0B/dp/B07MFZY2F2/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=samsung+m2+1tb&qid=1598526206&s=electronics&sr=1-2

With this it is a USB and connects that way it can also be a NAS through a USB like through a router.

[hubcapsc]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167779901016717

-Mike

[carolinarider09]

So, Mike, I noted that the proposed use of DNA for data storage was written in 2001, or at least that is when it was published.  Would you happen to have an updated references.  I can collect some DNA for a trial run

[hubcapsc]

So, Mike, I noted that the proposed use of DNA for data storage was written in 2001, or at least that is when it was published.  Would you happen to have an updated references.  I can collect some DNA for a trial run

I was at a computer conference where someone who had done
a lot of that kind of work gave a talk, five or six years ago.

Long term storage is a problem. I've put data on lots of
different kinds of media, much of which I can't read...
Don't have a mag tape reader, paper tape reader,
eight-inch floppy reader... That's the main long
term storage problem: in what form will you
store your data to have the best chance of being
able to still read it when you need it.

We can make dna... I just googled up an ad for a place
that "offers chemical synthesis, cloning & verification
of any sequence."

We already don't have any interest in producing an
eight-inch floppy reader, but we'll probably never
quit caring about being able to read dna... and
dna lasts a long time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_digital_data_storage

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

Long Term Video Storage

All my old VHS tapes have been in a big garbage bag under the stairs for 25 years.       

[carolinarider09]

I don't have any VHS Tapes, I used a Beta Max recorder. 

The other day I got a medical device in the mail for doing a "sleep test".   Included in the box was a DVD.   Now I do have a way of playing a DVD but it requires work since I have not played a DVD in a year or more. 

Makes one wonder about the future of such things.   Include a DVD, a USB Thumb Drive, Website address (YouTube???)....   

Same with format's of videos. 

I ran across some old (say 15 plus years) videos in a format that was not readily readable by my MacBook.  I just had to select another video player and convert it to a more "standard" format. 

.MOV  .MP4   what will the standard be in 10 years for these older videos?

[Serk]

I don't have any VHS Tapes, I used a Beta Max recorder. 

The other day I got a medical device in the mail for doing a "sleep test".   Included in the box was a DVD.   Now I do have a way of playing a DVD but it requires work since I have not played a DVD in a year or more. 

Makes one wonder about the future of such things.   Include a DVD, a USB Thumb Drive, Website address (YouTube???)....   

Same with format's of videos. 

I ran across some old (say 15 plus years) videos in a format that was not readily readable by my MacBook.  I just had to select another video player and convert it to a more "standard" format. 

.MOV  .MP4   what will the standard be in 10 years for these older videos?

There's quite a bit of research and discussion on this topic, and it is one of great concern. It'd be sadly ironic if in a thousand years there were no media left of the most prolifically photographed and video's period in history to date...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_dark_age

[Ramie]

I have used one similar to this for years now.  https://www.amazon.com/BUFFALO-LinkStation-Desktop-Drives-Included/dp/B07X13ZP3Q/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=nas&qid=1598661791&sr=8-7

basically a hard drive attached to my network to store all my images, videos and important files.  It's set up with what they call a RAID 1 configuration so that drives mirror each other.  If one of the drives goes bad I can simply replace it with a compatible one and the software will rebuild the drive with all the original files from the mirrored drive. 

[carolinarider09]

Ramie,

I think that is what others were suggesting but my problem was finding a "turnkey" device.  Seems like this might be it.

The others also had an interface (or so I thought based on the wording) to the cloud.  So, (assuming here) that if I sent stuff to the cloud, the device would also get the same data back down from the cloud. 

A more intricate setup and since it has software associated with the process another potential point of failure. 

But it would provide the local storage I was considering. 

I like the idea of having data on the cloud since I can be anywhere and (if I have access to the internet) I can get to that data.

Having the devices also get that data when I stored it on the cloud would be a big plus. 

The only issue in not having the cloud interface is that I would have to store data in both places which means another margin for error. on my part.

Still, that is a very viable option. 

Some of the reviews are disheartening but, I don't believe all the reviews anyway, sort of have to read between the lines sometimes. 

Buffalo is not a name I am familiar with. 

[carolinarider09]

The only other requirement would be that I could remove a drive from the system and access it directly (with the appropriate drive interface).  Just in case the system interface to the network failed. 

My intent would be to power it form my UPS which powers a couple of other devices during power outages. 

Since I now have a whole house standby generator, the power outages are of short duration (five minutes or less). 

[Ramie]

Most units now a days can be accessed via the USB port if needed.  You can also access the files remotely depending on the unit and how you set it up.

https://turbofuture.com/computers/How-to-Remotely-connect-to-your-NAS-device

There are a number of different devices out there.  This article talks about a few and may give you a little better understanding.

https://mashtips.com/best-nas-devices/#:~:text=%208%20Best%20NAS%20Devices%20for%20Home%20Network,High-Performance%20Storage.%20When%20it%20comes%20to...%20More%20

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for the information Ramie.  

I will read the article.  

After some additional considerations and thoughts, I changed my desires/needs a little.  

I use iCloud to store some things that I want to have access to from multiple devices and when I am not at home.

As others have noted, I should not consider it the ultimate storage location.  The ultimate storage location should be a system similar to what you and others have referenced.  A RAID type of configuration with multiple drives that mirror each other.  

Failure of one would not mean lost of data.  Failure of the interface device would not mean loss of data since I should be able to access the drives information directly from the drive if I needed.

The iCloud should be used only to mirror data I have on my local storage as I deiced.  And mirror is not a good choice of words since the iCloud storage is limited (depending on what you pay for).  I should be able to select and store data on the iCloud at my discretion.  

So, I will read the information and see how I can best do what  I wish to do.  

It looks like 2TB would be a reasonable storage size but.... one never knows until you get there.

Western Digital and Seagate are two brand names I have used for many years.  I'd have to do down to my observatory to see which drives I have in my computer running Windows 98. 

[Ramie]

I've had one for at least the last 10 years and in that time I've lost 3 hard drives so the raid feature is definitely a plus.

[Serk]

If you're first dipping your toes into RAID, often times it's better to buy the enclosure and the drives separately. Good rule of thumb is to buy the drives individually form different vendors. (But the same make and model of drive.)

The idea being you want different lots, manufacture dates, etc. That way the tiny variances in the manufacturing process from day to day lower the odds of them being TOO identical and failing at the same time, which would defeat the whole purpose of the RAID configuration...

[carolinarider09]

You know Serk, I never considered that when I was buying the drives for my one and only (years ago) RAID system.

Excellent thought. 

Still looking but buying the enclosure and then the drives will allow me to spread the cost over a few weeks.  I won't feel as guilty spending the money. 

[carolinarider09]

After reading the reviews in the document linked below, I sort of settled on a diskless Synology 2 bay NAS.

This was based on the reviews I saw on the Amazon links.  Like I said I don't always trust the reviews but sort of count them up and read the bad ones and then look at the most recent. 

Still looking.  But I will try and buy a diskless system, which should allow me more flexibility in the future with disk replacement. 

https://mashtips.com/best-nas-devices/#:~:text=%208%20Best%20NAS%20Devices%20for%20Home%20Network,High-Performance%20Storage.%20When%20it%20comes%20to...%20More%20

[Serk]

I'll just put this out there, these are a little spendy, and a little old (Been out about 4 years) but I've got 4 of these and love 'em:

https://www.amazon.com/QNAP-TS-451-2G-US-Quad-Core-Transcoding/dp/B015VNLGF8?th=1

4 bay, so you can do RAID 5 (4 disks, you get the storage of 3 of 'em and can lose any one of 'em without data loss) or RAID 1+0 (Mirrored and striped, you get 1/2 the total storage but you get the performance increase of striping as well.)

Also, a feature these have that I've admittedly never taken advantage of but you might be interested in - it has a remote control and an HDMI output, so (From what I understand, just saw the ports and the remote, didn't dig much deeper!) play your videos (In a supported format) directly to a TV...

(I will warn ya' though, if you really wanna take advantage of the streaming directly to the TV feature, you'd probably need to upgrade the RAM from the base 2GB it comes with, but the RAM sticks are relatively inexpensive and it's not too difficult of a job to upgrade.)

[carolinarider09]

Well Serk, since you are using them and have fours years experience that is a good reference.

I have no idea if I would ever use the video streaming. 

First I'd have to get the device connected to an HDMI cable to my TV.  Since the TV is mounted on the wall and the two HDMI cables are run from the bookcase behind the wall (installed when I built the house).   It might be difficult, but who knows what can be done with the right stuff.

My intent is to put the device up next to my router/network interface box. 

I feel sort of guilt since I have one 8 port netgear switch and two 4 four netgear switches (think that is the right term) connected to the router. 

But the router is where the UPS device is located.  So......that is where this device would go.  I have two extra ports on the netgear switch there.  I had to install it to get network access for the Kohler generator. 

[scooperhsd]

I have 4 currently in use UPS's - small one downstairs to run the Google fiber ONT and router, one in my bedroom (upstairs network central (router, two 8 port gigabit switches (one from downstairs router, other for MY stuff), 2 VoIP ATAs (one Google Fiber phone for MIL, other for our home phone))), one for wife's work computer, and one in the Living room for the DVR. If location convience is important, consider the multiple UPS setup in a different room.

[RP#62]

Well Serk, since you are using them and have fours years experience that is a good reference.

I have no idea if I would ever use the video streaming. 

First I'd have to get the device connected to an HDMI cable to my TV.  Since the TV is mounted on the wall and the two HDMI cables are run from the bookcase behind the wall (installed when I built the house).   It might be difficult, but who knows what can be done with the right stuff.

My intent is to put the device up next to my router/network interface box. 

I feel sort of guilt since I have one 8 port netgear switch and two 4 four netgear switches (think that is the right term) connected to the router. 

But the router is where the UPS device is located.  So......that is where this device would go.  I have two extra ports on the netgear switch there.  I had to install it to get network access for the Kohler generator. 

Never say never.  I can stream movies to any tv in the house with a roku device attached using Plex.  No cables attached.

-RP

[carolinarider09]

I agree, never say never...  

One never knows.  

I looked at a youtube video about the device Serk mentioned.  It does everything but flush the toilet on command.  

(Fixed spelling error)

[carolinarider09]

Unless I hear some negative comments in the next 24 hours (more or less) I am going to purchase the QNAP TS-451+-2G-US 4-Bay Next Gen Personal Cloud NAS, Intel 2.0GHz Quad-Core CPU with Media Transcoding.

I will purchase the drives separately, one each for different vendors.  The drives will, unless the instructions that come with the device say otherwise, be Seagate IronWolf 4TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD. 

[Serk]

Unless I hear some negative comments in the next 24 hours (more or less) I am going to purchase the QNAP TS-451+-2G-US 4-Bay Next Gen Personal Cloud NAS, Intel 2.0GHz Quad-Core CPU with Media Transcoding.

I will purchase the drives separately, one each for different vendors.  The drives will, unless the instructions that come with the device say otherwise, be Seagate IronWolf 4TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD. 

I just logged in to one of mine, and that, down to the Seagate IronWolf 4TB NAS drives, is exactly what I'm running... (Just with the 8GB of upgraded RAM on mine, I think the specific one you listed comes with 2GB of RAM.)

As always, YMMV, but I'm still loving my little shelf full of those guys...

[carolinarider09]

I just have to find a place to put it.  I don't have a shelf that is the right size.  But I can fix that.

Gonna put it upstairs next to the fiber optic modem and tie it into the netgear thingy I have plugged into one of the four ports on the back of the modem.

I did find a video on Youtube describing how it works.  The guy had a foreign accent but....   

Should have it up and running my the end of October.  No rush. 

[Serk]

They don't take up much real estate... Here's my little redneck data center:

[carolinarider09]

Yes and you are right about the RAM.  

The Youtube video I watched said the unit was well built, and it was a little slow compared to some other units but, in general, it was a very good middle of the road system.  

The setup is the only thing I am concerned about.  It appears to be fairly straight forward but..... never having done one before....  

[carolinarider09]

I LIKE YOUR DATA CENTER!!!!

[carolinarider09]

My QNAP 451+ NAS is up and running.  I am still figuring out how to use it and make it do what I want but....  I now have 10 TB of reliable data storage available here on my home network.

Still working on setting up external network access (so I can down load data to the NAS when I am on the road). 

It has been and will continue to be an interesting exercise. 

[carolinarider09]

I began uploading some Christmas Music to my NAS today.  I have some that my dad use to play in his CD Changer and some of my own.  I am uploading them all to the NAS.

I also ordered a UPS for the system. Its an APC Power-Saving Back-UPS Pro 700.  I have an APC 1500 upstairs that powers some "essential" stuff. 

However, with the Kohler generator on-line, I only have to survive the first 10 or 15 seconds of loss of power so the APC 1500 is now overkill, but..... one never knows.

I made the decision to purchase the UPS when I was shutting down the NAS to verify the source of some electronic noise. I noted that it does not shutdown right away, requiring some time to "get things right" I guess. 

Anyway,  with the UPS, I will have a less likely possibility of data error due to power fluctuations. 

Next, a backup drive so, I can ensure I won't lose data if the system has a major issue and a memory upgrade. 

[carolinarider09]

I have finally got the music to play. 

I tried several methods.  I put the "Media Station" app on my device and while it found the songs, it would not play then.  Well the symbol said it was playing but the timer did not show any playing time. 

So I tired loaned the "Plex Media Server" on my device and tried to us it to play music.  It failed as well.  Did not even show anything playing.  So....  I just went to my Roku device and tried the Plex thing there.
It failed as well. 

But what did work and is working now is "Roku Media Player".   Its playing all the songs in a random manner.  Only problem is that it appears it restarts from the same song.  I won't know if the second song is a repeat or not. 

But,  its working as I wanted, just not with apps I was suppose to use. 

[carolinarider09]

The QNAP unit continues to work well, maybe a little slow at times but, its only got 2gig of memory.  

My UPS finally arrived (from B&H Photo )

However, as fate with have it, about two hours before it arrived, we lost power (turns out the local power company had to replace a part in the substation).  The generator kicked in as expected and, since I was outside, when I got back in the house, I checked the NAS out and there were no issues.  It was like nothing happened.  

So, now the UPS is up and running and the NAS and network device are both powered from the UPS battery backup supply.  

Next I need to upgrade the memory and purchase a disk to do backups with.  Oh, and a spare drive.