3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6958
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2021, 09:47:41 AM » |
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Of course we are all playing Monday morning quarterback here.
Eventually, the facts will come out and we will know what happened.
I don't know how they do it on a movie set, but I was taught and I taught my son:
1) Treat every gun as a loaded gun until you check it for yourself.
2) Check every gun yourself, don't take someone else's word that it is unloaded.
He learned this lesson well and will check the gun even if I was the one that handed it to him.
I taught him other gun safety lessons as well but they probably don't apply to a movie set.
Given Mr. Baldwin's attitude against guns I seriously doubt that he would even know the difference between a loaded and an unloaded weapon.
Much less how to check it.
My guess is that the ultimate liability will fall upon the person who's job it was to check the weapon.
But, Alec Baldwin will forever have to live with the reality that he killed someone with a gun.
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1 Corinthians 1:18  |
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signart
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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2021, 10:23:58 AM » |
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That was a pretty comprehensive article. It does confirm something I had originally thought, and that was the gun was pointed at the camera and it's operator (Hutchins). The article stating that a firearm just went off earlier in a cabin the day before is ludicrous, though. A firearm going off completely by itself, with no external action taken, is nearly impossible. It only happens regularly in fiction. And a single action metallic cartridge revolver, literally, cannot go off by itself. Period. SA revolver can go off if dropped and landing just right on a hard surface, if it is an authentic western gun. As you know the modern SA revolver has a hammer block. Half rooster on my old Colts and Rugers are the only safety against this scenerio. Of course this did not happen in this case as it was a misfire that caused the death of this person. |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16608
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2021, 11:15:06 AM » |
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...
Given Mr. Baldwin's attitude against guns ...
But, Alec Baldwin will forever have to live with the reality that he killed someone with a gun.
Correction - He will have to live with the reality of the gun went off in his hand and killed someone. They do have a completely different perspective. |
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6958
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2021, 11:47:05 AM » |
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...
Given Mr. Baldwin's attitude against guns ...
But, Alec Baldwin will forever have to live with the reality that he killed someone with a gun.
Correction - He will have to live with the reality of the gun went off in his hand and killed someone. They do have a completely different perspective. I realize that he didn't intend to kill someone, but the gun didn't "go off" on its own. He pulled the trigger. Personally, I feel that I would have a harder time with accidentally killing someone than intentionally killing them. That could be because if I ever intentionally kill someone, I firmly believe that it will be in the defense of myself or others. |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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Serk
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« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2021, 11:54:21 AM » |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6958
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2021, 12:07:42 PM » |
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I guess that he knows now. |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16608
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2021, 12:35:28 PM » |
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Correction - He will have to live with the reality of the gun went off in his hand and killed someone. They do have a completely different perspective.
I realize that he didn't intend to kill someone, but the gun didn't "go off" on its own. He pulled the trigger. ... That's my point. From our perspective he pulled the trigger; he's responsible. From the anti-gunner's perspective that gun went off. If there had been no gun there would have been no death. As to responsibility, "Who gave me a hot gun?" See the difference? |
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6958
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2021, 12:50:37 PM » |
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Correction - He will have to live with the reality of the gun went off in his hand and killed someone. They do have a completely different perspective.
I realize that he didn't intend to kill someone, but the gun didn't "go off" on its own. He pulled the trigger. ... That's my point. From our perspective he pulled the trigger; he's responsible. From the anti-gunner's perspective that gun went off. If there had been no gun there would have been no death. As to responsibility, "Who gave me a hot gun?" See the difference? Well, since you explained it to me I do.  |
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1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2021, 12:59:11 PM » |
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Given Mr. Baldwin’s outspokenness on a variety of topics including former President Trump and guns, it’s possible someone messed with the blanks to wreak havoc on and screw Mr. B.
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2021, 01:53:41 PM » |
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Told ya. A Clinton connection. https://conservativebrief.com/husband-of-woman-53243/"The cinematographer who was shot and killed by actor Alec Baldwin with a prop gun on Thursday was married to a corporate lawyer employed by a law firm involved in defending an attorney who worked with the 2016 campaign of Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. Matt Hutchins, the husband of Halyna Hutchins who died shortly after she was shot by Baldwin, is employed in the Los Angeles office of Latham & Watkins, the law firm representing Michael Sussmann, who was charged in mid-September by special counsel John Durham with one count of lying to the FBI." Seriously, did she know something? She was an investigative journalist. Conspiracy theory? Maybe. But when you make a joke and all of a sudden you find you can actually connect the dots? Maybe not. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2021, 06:09:49 AM » |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2021, 06:28:46 AM » |
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I’m not in the movie business so I find it hard to understand why there was even live ammo on the set.
I was under the impression that any filmed “bullet shots” were pyrotechnics, like when a bullet is suppose to hit a piece of wood, target or person.
Also, why is it that a gun which is suppose to be a prop gun is being allowed to be used for off set target shooting?
If the bosses on the movie set have no issues with the guns being used for fun, then the live ammo should be stored off set and locked away in cases which are clearly marked and secured.
I’m not a fan of Baldwin, but this is a rotten situation.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2021, 06:58:42 AM » |
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All the news stories keep saying the gun accidentally went off.
No it didn't.
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signart
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« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2021, 07:37:21 AM » |
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In the link Britman posted above, it states one reason union workers walked off set was, while in one of the cabins on set, someone was just holding one of props in their hand and it just went off. This happened twice, reportedly.  |
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 07:46:24 AM by signart »
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Bighead
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« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2021, 09:05:40 AM » |
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All the news stories keep saying the gun accidentally went off.
No it didn't.
We all know that but the MSM is gonna spin it everytime.  |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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old2soon
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« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2021, 09:39:12 AM » |
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NOBODY Else But BALDWIN Pulled the That TRIGGER! Reading some of the accounts that led up to the MURDER far too Many safety RULES were balantly IGNORED. I'd stated earlier in the thread BALDWIN wil SADLY probably wiggle out of responsibility. Who gave me a hot weapon? And the prosecutor I M H O Asks WHY did you aim the weapon and pull the trigger? Even the filtered homgenized version on msm makes it look lke Baldwin IS GUILTY. Every gun range I've been to has a Safety Officer for Good REASONS! Cuz Most if Not ALL newbies are Dangerous even after reading the RULES. And I've seen people who Should KNOW Better screw up. Any odds of Baldwin doing JAIL TIME?? RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2021, 12:23:48 PM » |
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Just pulled this off Quora:
Kris R.
Got my Eddie Eagle card in 1970 at the school range21h
2a supporters are calling for massive new regulations of firearms in the film industry after the Baldwin incident. What would this new gun regulation look like?
We're not asking for new regulations. We are simply demanding that the EXISTING standards of safe weapons handling which we are held to in courts be applied to everyone and without exception.
What are those standards?
If you have a gun in your hand then YOU, and you alone, are responsible for where any bullet fired goes.
You will treat every weapon as if it is loaded until such time as you prove, conclusively, that it isn't (such as by opening the action and sticking your pinky in the chamber).
If you set the gun down loaded, even “by mistake," (aka: negligence) and some kid picks it up and shoots someone then YOU are responsible.
Once you pick up a weapon, what happens thereafter is YOUR responsibility.
For this reason, when handling weapons, your first and constant presumption is that the gun is loaded.
It's called personal responsibility and it's a harsh lesson many evade.. especially in Hollywood.
Yes, the armorer screwed up and so did the director who grabbed the gun off the cart to hand it to Mr. Baldwin. I will even argue that the director was negligent too in handing said gun to Mr. Baldwin whilst telling him it was “cold" (unloaded or safe). That, even if true, doesn't relieve Mr. Baldwin of HIS responsibility to verify the condition of the weapon once it was placed in his hand. It also doesn't, in any way, legally or ethically, relieve him of his personal responsibility to know enough about weapons to know that he needs to check every time, just as we do.
Bottom Line: It was Mr. Baldwin's personal responsibility to VERIFY the condition of the weapon the second it was in his hand and under his control. That he didn't check was blatantly negligent and that negligence, regardless of the reason/s behind it, makes him culpable; especially since he has ample reason to know what “mistakes" (aka: negligence) with weapons cost people.
If you don't like these simple facts of dealing with potentially deadly tools, then you really ought to keep your biscuit hooks off potentially deadly tools entirely… even (especially?) if you're a highly paid actor who rails against gun ownership for anyone but the wealthy. (I note here that he's, very carefully, never said snuggle All about Pelosi or Boxer and their very well armed security teams).
Look y'all, weapons are inherently dangerous tools. So are chisels, knives, and large sticks. Treating them any other way is flatly stupid. We all know this, and trying to act like that fact ain't so just because wealth is the negligent party (Hollywood & Baldwin) is disengenuious at best. I regard it as gaslighting.
Here is the core problem: We who have dealt with weapons (of any sort, but especially guns) understand the simple fact that tools are inanimate. A knife simply can't “Jump off the counter and bite you.” It's just not possible, no matter how hard you clap your hands and belieb.
For you to be injured or maimed by ANY tool (say Little Lizzie Borden's Ax) someone must have taken an action of some sort.
If there is no person touching that tool then no one is harmed by it..
Riddle me this: If a crane operator uses a crane with a frayed cable because they didn't inspect it before use, and that cable snaps dropping a 4,000 pound load on your head and killing you, is anyone but the operator responsible for the negligent act of not checking the equipment?
Nope! OSHA will back me here too.
That's 100% on the crane operator… even if you were struck Stoopid and standing directly below the load.
The same principal applies here. Mr Baldwin accepted a KNOWN to be potentially deadly weapon and DID NOT CHECK THE CONDITION OF THE EQUIPMENT HE WAS OPERATING.
He, and he alone, is culpable for the results of HIS negligence. The armorer may have screwed the pooch in not securing a loaded weapon and the director who handed Mr. Baldwin the weapon, not knowing or checking to see what it was loaded with may have screwed the pooch too; But ultimately it IS, and must be, the person operating the equipment who is personally responsible for the safety of that equipment.
END QUOTE.
The charge should be negligent homicide. No matter how he tries to weasel out of responsibility. Indict and try him. Hope he gets at least 20 years. But we all know that won't happen. He is after all a liberal, anti-2A hypocrite (spouts off against gun owners & the NRA while raking in $$$$ using guns in movies) and supported by the MSM, Hollywood and especially the progressives in power - so he's in the Protected Class. The armorer and/or the director will be blamed even though he is the producer and E.P. And a weasel. Reportedly he's crying crocodile tears and spouting "Who handed me a HOT GUN?" Big show trying to save his butt.
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 12:51:57 PM by MarkT »
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16779
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2021, 02:20:56 PM » |
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I wasn't there. The lady he shot wasn't in the movie was she? So he pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger haha? He was pointing the gun in random directions pulling the trigger haha? I don't guess I really know what happened...  -Mike |
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« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2021, 02:53:09 PM » |
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I wasn't there. The lady he shot wasn't in the movie was she? So he pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger haha? He was pointing the gun in random directions pulling the trigger haha? I don't guess I really know what happened... -Mike She was in charge of all the cameras. Director standing behind her looking over her shoulder. A twofer.  |
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16608
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2021, 04:34:25 PM » |
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I wasn't there. The lady he shot wasn't in the movie was she? So
he pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger haha?
He was reportedly pointing the gun at the camera. That's reasonable in a shot (no pun intended) or practice for a shot. |
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Jersey mike
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« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2021, 03:31:06 AM » |
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I wasn't there. The lady he shot wasn't in the movie was she? So
he pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger haha?
He was reportedly pointing the gun at the camera. That's reasonable in a shot (no pun intended) or practice for a shot. Yeah that’s what I read also. Sounds like it’s one of those facing the camera and fire the gun scenes. |
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2021, 04:32:06 AM » |
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I wasn't there. The lady he shot wasn't in the movie was she? So
he pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger haha?
He was reportedly pointing the gun at the camera. That's reasonable in a shot (no pun intended) or practice for a shot. Yeah that’s what I read also. Sounds like it’s one of those facing the camera and fire the gun scenes. Yeah, well, unfortunately they got the dramatic effect they were looking for. I agree with negligent homicide. I also agree it probably won't happen. |
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2021, 07:05:33 AM » |
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What I find quite telling, and I'm not sure what it is telling, is that the "media" isn't asking some pertinent questions but intently following the narrative that it was a "prop" gun, and a tragic accident.
In the age of computer graphics and movie magic, why was there a real gun being used, why, in this environment, was there ANY live ammunition at all anywhere here, and why was it even pointed at these people?
This isn't passing the smell test.
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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signart
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« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2021, 08:08:45 AM » |
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Did authorities perform a toxicology test? He's known for his inebriety and stupidity while intoxicated. Charges would be compounded for most others caught handling a firearm while drunk or even just drinking alcohol, especially when resulting in injury and/or death.
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old2soon
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« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2021, 08:14:20 AM » |
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What I find quite telling, and I'm not sure what it is telling, is that the "media" isn't asking some pertinent questions but intently following the narrative that it was a "prop" gun, and a tragic accident.
In the age of computer graphics and movie magic, why was there a real gun being used, why, in this environment, was there ANY live ammunition at all anywhere here, and why was it even pointed at these people?
This isn't passing the smell test.
There was in Fact a lengthy article on msm about CGI as regards this MURDER. Any "actor" can hold a bright colored water pistol and current CGI methods can manipulate the image creating a "real" appearing weapon add the muzzle flash and the sound and if desired the bullet hitting Any objest they want to hit. Sadly NOW that CGI expense will seem paltry compared to the HUMAN LIFE that baldwin eliminated.  RIDE SAFE. |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Serk
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« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2021, 08:23:43 AM » |
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IMHO all the CGI or other angles wouldn't be necessary with the most extremely basic of basic safety protocols....
Why in the ($)@#@# are there ANY live rounds allowed on the set of a movie where people will be pointing real or real looking pistols at each other and pulling the trigger?!?!?!
Most basic thing ever, no live ammo allowed on set, period. Anyone found with live ammo on their person is fired on the spot.
I know, easy to armchair quarterback this one, but still.... WTH was live ammo doing on that set at all?!??!
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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signart
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« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2021, 08:40:19 AM » |
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IMHO all the CGI or other angles wouldn't be necessary with the most extremely basic of basic safety protocols....
Why in the ($)@#@# are there ANY live rounds allowed on the set of a movie where people will be pointing real or real looking pistols at each other and pulling the trigger?!?!?!
Most basic thing ever, no live ammo allowed on set, period. Anyone found with live ammo on their person is fired on the spot.
I know, easy to armchair quarterback this one, but still.... WTH was live ammo doing on that set at all?!??!
A rule not allowing live ammo on set where a firearm capable of firing live ammo is used to practice drawing and shooting at live targets could be even more deadly. |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2021, 10:17:57 AM » |
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IMHO all the CGI or other angles wouldn't be necessary with the most extremely basic of basic safety protocols....
Why in the ($)@#@# are there ANY live rounds allowed on the set of a movie where people will be pointing real or real looking pistols at each other and pulling the trigger?!?!?!
Most basic thing ever, no live ammo allowed on set, period. Anyone found with live ammo on their person is fired on the spot.
I know, easy to armchair quarterback this one, but still.... WTH was live ammo doing on that set at all?!??!
I agree with you. I look for realistic (and I mean real) firearms in movies, especially historical movies. I don't want no CGI or obvious fakes. All you have to do is not use real ammo and have some competent people running the gun part of every movie. |
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Avanti
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« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2021, 10:50:57 AM » |
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Why not just disable the firearm.
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« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2021, 06:09:09 AM » |
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98valk
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« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2021, 08:50:20 AM » |
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You would think there would have been industry wide safety rules and protocols after Brandon Lee was killed by blanks from a 44 mag.
Here the wad from the previous firing of the gun did not leave the barrel, so the next firing, the old wad became the projectile that hit and killed him.
like when was the last time the gun was cleaned? and I'm far from a gun expert but I know that much.
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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old2soon
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« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2021, 11:52:10 AM » |
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When ever I was still driving truck and my truck was serviced at a company terminal or a truck stop I Personally checked the fluid levels to make SURE things were as they Are Supposed to be. You can hand me a semi auto piostol with one hand with the slide locked open and a full magazine with your other hand I am pocketing the magazine and Inspecting the pistol I was just handed. And after Making SURE the pistol IS Indeed EMPTY I will either put the pistol in my pocket or set it down Safely With out Taking my EYES off the pistol and then examining the magazine. Then and ONLY THEN that I Am Completely Satisfied with the pistol and magazine inspection will I move forward with getting ready to Secure the Weapon or getting Ready to FIRE the weapon. baldwin-no Matter WHAT the armorer stated Should have INSPECTED the weapon himself. Trust Only goes so far. Another couple minutes swinging the cylinder out and LOOKING at it Very POSSIBLY May have SAVED that Young Ladies LIFE! You can't tell the difference tween Real cartridges and blanks YOU Should be in another line of work. But I am with some others here-WHY was there even live rounds on the set? RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2021, 12:04:15 PM » |
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IMHO all the CGI or other angles wouldn't be necessary with the most extremely basic of basic safety protocols....
Why in the ($)@#@# are there ANY live rounds allowed on the set of a movie where people will be pointing real or real looking pistols at each other and pulling the trigger?!?!?!
Most basic thing ever, no live ammo allowed on set, period. Anyone found with live ammo on their person is fired on the spot.
I know, easy to armchair quarterback this one, but still.... WTH was live ammo doing on that set at all?!??!
I agree with you. I look for realistic (and I mean real) firearms in movies, especially historical movies. I don't want no CGI or obvious fakes. All you have to do is not use real ammo and have some competent people running the gun part of every movie. Hollywood AND competent people? Doesn't exist even in alternate universes. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Psychotic Bovine
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« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2021, 09:47:42 PM » |
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Alec Baldwin is back on Twitter. Mourning period must be over.
He should probably be glad they weren't shooting a suicide scene.
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"I aim to misbehave."
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« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2021, 06:27:44 AM » |
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old2soon
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« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2021, 08:02:05 AM » |
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well ya see it was thisaway. i was foolin about and somehow a COLD weapon just took it upon itself to discharge and who in the h--- put a ------ live round in this thing? see i'm Really a family man and a nice guy! wigglin and spinnin! wonder do he have a Good criminal defense lawyer on retainer? RIDE SAFE. |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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cookiedough
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« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2021, 08:33:34 PM » |
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Alec Baldwin is back on Twitter. Mourning period must be over.
He should probably be glad they weren't shooting a suicide scene.
yah, saw baldwin on TV tonight blabbering away and basically telling his young hot wife to keep quiet I am speaking here, very rude to her IMO. I think he needs to keep quiet and not be talking to the media right about now. is a sad situation and doubt he will get jail time but the person in charge of the weapon might get some jail time out of it. IMO even if you think it is not a LIVE round or loaded, one would think common sense wise to NEVER EVER point ANY type of gun at a person and pull the trigger. To me that seems common sense 101 taught that when was in around 5th grade hunter's education class age 12 or so. |
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