Oxford, Michigan School Shooting

[Rams]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/3-killed-6-others-injured-in-shooting-at-oxford-high-school-in-michigan/ar-AARjj5t?ocid=BingNewsSearch

3 Killed, 8 injured.

A sophomore is in custody but won't speak except to ask for a lawyer.  

Rams

[Romeo]

I live ten miles from the school. The district is adjacent to ours. We open the football season with them.
This is a terrible blow to a small, tight knit community. Not many details yet. A 15 yr old sophomore
Brought a semi automatic handgun and two clips to school with him. No metal detectors, and no bag searches as there are 1800 kids that attend there. A sad, sad commentary on our times. I’ve got my opinions on the underlying reasons this kind of stuff happens, and they have nothing to do with guns, directly.

[cookiedough]

am really surprised bigger schools like that 1800 kids do not have metal detectors to go thru, they should.

[Psychotic Bovine]

News isn't releasing the name of the shooter,  but it's all over facebook and such. 

[DIGGER]

Prayers for all the families involved.   These type incidences change sooooo many lives in the blink of a eye.    I feel so very sorry for the parents of those that died and those that were wounded.   I dont have any feelings toward the 15 yr old who did this….but I truly feel sorry for his parents.   Their lives just changed as much as the parents of the students who were injured and killed.   My knee jerk reaction is the killers parents are probly rotten people too….but they may not be.    I’ve seen bad kids raised by good parents.    One if my sons got into major trouble once.   He paid dearly for it.   He pays dearly for it every day of his life.  My wife and I paid dearly for it too.  We think about it a lot even today 15 yrs later.   So my prayers are for everyone affected by this tragedy…..except the 15 yr old killer.   I cant imagine what was so bad about his life that he felt that only this action would make his life better.   He will never get out of jail…. and shouldnt.

[f6john]

I’m troubled by the frequency of these attacks and we never seem to get to the bottom of why. Surely mental health issues are involved but so are changes in our society since I was in school in the 60’s.

[Romeo]

I don’t want to start a gun control debate here, but many among us do not deserve the rights our constitution afford them. It’s obvious to any who look that our culture is broken in a big way. I know where I’d start if I was king, bu tt that’s another story for another’s day.

[Serk]

Not sure the relevance, but interesting - he used  Sig Sauer SP 2022 in 9MM that his dad had just bought on Black Friday...

I've seen video from inside a classroom with the door locked, he was trying to convince the kids in the classroom it was okay to come out he was a Sheriff, but when he added "bro" they figured he wasn't legit and jumped out a window to get away from him...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/11/30/oxford-high-school-shooting-suspect-used-gun-dad-bought/8817406002/

VERY early, but looks to be a pudgy incel type lashing out at the beautiful people who'd rejected him, but this is VERY early conjecture...

[Sorcerer]

Parents insist on being their child’s best friend instead of parenting. I had to earn the money for my first car and the insurance for it. 1971. Before that if I wanted a new bike it came out of my paper route savings. Birthdays and Christmas was generally clothing, jeans ,dress slacks, shirts and socks. On Thanksgiving my friends son told me his step son would be turning 16 in the spring and he’d be “giving” the 16 year old his car he now has. At 67 years of age I’m a firm believer that my parents generation edged into this mindset and my generation and those after it have perpetuated us to what we are seeing now.

[Chrisj CMA]

I would imagine that Dad will be in considerable trouble as well for not properly securing his firearm. So sad because and so easily prevented.

[0leman]

I would imagine that Dad will be in considerable trouble as well for not properly securing his firearm. So sad because and so easily prevented.

That would depend on the state/local firearm laws.

Seems a lot of these types of incidents are triggered by the fellow students.  Bullied folks tend to finally react in some way.  Then everyone ask why one goes "postal". 

[scooperhsd]

It was speculated that it was bullying that lead to this.

[carolinarider09]

If bullying is part of the issue, we must consider how much we, as a society, have helped make this happen.

We have seen instances were people have not responded for fear of being labeled as ?????.   This is a very important point to consider. 

We have been trained, by what I believe is the "woksters" that if we stand up and support someone (in this case if bullying was a driving force) we are, ourselves bullied.  There has always been and still is, this small group of bullies that succeed in their endeavors because we are not allowed to stand up.  We are told to stand down, don't make waves, turn the other cheek.   

I know, I can't prove any of this.  I can only relate to what I have seen and what I have experienced. 

[old2soon]

     When I went to School any issues were settled after school off of school property or at the bus stop after school. Most of us carried knives but NOBODY ever pulled a knife that I'm aware of. Bloody nose black eye sore ribs skinned knuckles ALL part of growin up-in MY Time. Would have Graduated High School 62 or 63. All Dad ever asked was-how'd the other guy look? 
       Now famaliar with Michigan or the County or the City Gun Laws involved here BUT Parents Might have some blow back Because of Their Sons weapon use. Also thinkin a life sentence barring lawful execution be a LOOOOOONG TIME fer such a youngling. If he was THAT Upset shoulda done something else with the gun. Only 1 funeral then NOT 3 or maybe more yet to come.
       Radio report mentioned when he was taken into custody he supposedly only asked fer a lawyer. RIDE SAFE.

[Psychotic Bovine]

So, just saw they are charging the shooter with terrorism.  I have no problem with that, at all.  But... why is the Waukesha murderer not being charged with the same?  Maybe different locales have different laws....
Interesting thing, a lot of people said the Timberview shooting was justified, because the shooter had been beaten up.  That entire story died out quickly.  Why?

[old2soon]

    A 4th person was just reported to have died. And He WILL be charged as an adult. Anyone know if Michigan has the death penalty? RIDE SAFE.

[old2soon]

     According to Google No death penalty in Michigan since 1964. RIDE SAFE.

[carolinarider09]

So, just saw they are charging the shooter with terrorism.  I have no problem with that, at all.  But... why is the Waukesha murderer not being charged with the same?  Maybe different locales have different laws....
Interesting thing, a lot of people said the Timberview shooting was justified, because the shooter had been beaten up.  That entire story died out quickly.  Why?

My answer, it did not fit the needed narrative.  One only has to speculate that because of the ethnicity of the two accused murders, there will be a difference in charges and assigned "names" to those charges.

Gone are the days when you can (you know the kettle thing).......   Today, we are required to parse our words to ensure that someone is not offended...

It would be nice if we could all just be Americans.......   You know, "We the people"...

But, in case anyone is wondering and to why we cannot be "Americans" but must be XXXX-American, its because you need have a label on something to begin a specific discussion about that thing. 

Sort of like "divide and conquer".

[Jess from VA]

     According to Google No death penalty in Michigan since 1964. RIDE SAFE.

Wrong there buddy.

Capital punishment in Michigan was legal in Michigan from the founding of Sault Ste Marie in 1668 during the French colonial period, until abolition by the state legislature in 1846 (except nominally for treason).  Michigan has only ever executed one person since its admission into the Union.

They should give him life in front of a firing squad. 

Dad screwed up big time.  Just like the mental case that shot up little kids in Sandy Hook because his mom screwed up (his first murder was her, so there was a little justice in there).

[Serk]

Getting off in the weeds, but:

"Michigan's death penalty history is unusual, as Michigan was the first Anglophone jurisdiction in the world to abolish the death penalty for ordinary crimes.[1][2] The Michigan State Legislature voted to do so on May 18, 1846, and that has remained the law ever since.[3] Although the death penalty was formally retained as a punishment for treason until 1963, no person was ever tried for treason against Michigan. Thus, Michigan has not executed any person since before statehood."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Michigan

Edit to add - Short version, the kid almost definitely will not face the death penalty, even if he's earned as much in many of our eyes.

[Reb]

If bullying is part of the issue, we must consider how much we, as a society, have helped make this happen.

We have seen instances were people have not responded for fear of being labeled as ?????.   This is a very important point to consider.  

We have been trained, by what I believe is the "woksters" that if we stand up and support someone (in this case if bullying was a driving force) we are, ourselves bullied.  There has always been and still is, this small group of bullies that succeed in their endeavors because we are not allowed to stand up.  We are told to stand down, don't make waves, turn the other cheek.  

I know, I can't prove any of this.  I can only relate to what I have seen and what I have experienced.  

The world of bullying is much different than when we were all in school. At least you could "get away" from constant attacks at the end of the day. The sickness of social media, and how deeply connected the youth is in it today, can lead to a never ending bullying state inside and outside of the classroom. This is something new, and probably will take some hashing out to determine a corrective action that doesn't impede on everyone's freedom of speech.

I'm with you on woke mob mentality, We have enough cognitive ability as adults to make change through the ballot box (well some of us do).

Still no reason to begin violent attacks, but maybe a wake up call to parents to monitor their children's internet activity more closely.

[carolinarider09]

Reb,

Thank you.  I forgot the "social media" construct.  And yes, it is almost like me, when I was still in high school and hooked on reading every Perry Mason paperback I could get and the Sci Fi.  Today's "twitter" and "FaceBook" and "TicToc". 

But I will whole heartedly agree that Social Media is a powerful tool in the hands of the wrong people. 

Just look at what "kids" are doing today when someone is being mugged, they break out their phones....

When I have someone in my social media circle who crosses the line, I simply use the appropriate feature to ignore that person. 

[Wizzard]

Times have changed. I got bullied in Jr High and upon my Dad's advice he told me if the kid harmed me physically to take my fist and hit him on the nose as hard as I can. I said what if he hits me back. Dad said that hurt will only last for awhile but if I don't it will last a lifetime. I did it, broke his nose and never got bullied again ever.

[Jess from VA]

He thinks school bullies are bad, he will now find out what prison bullies are like.  

There were people in my schools I didn't like (probably didn't like me).  The solution was to ignore and stay away from each other.  And my dad told me, if someone learns what button to push, and it obviously upsets you, they will just keep pushing that button.  So learn a poker face and don't react and laugh at them.  That made most problems disappear.  In a verbal match, I had everyone laughing at the other guy.  So they quit.  

Why doesn't the rabbit fear the bear?  (Because he's smarter than the bear)  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1c4bQqfUtA

All this bullying-suicide-murder crap comes from weak minds.


My 5yr younger brother had a 75% hearing loss and was the smallest kid in his class (until about his senior year growth spurt.)  He was very introverted and quiet and did poorly in school.  I twice went after older guys who (physically) bullied him... with a vengeance (that ensured it never happened again).  I never had to defend myself as hard as I defended him.

Most bullies are cowards who pick on smaller, slower, easier targets.  

[old2soon]

      msm posted the photos of 3 of the younglings that kid MURDERED. I have grand kids somewhere in that range-14  17-or a bit older and while I do NOT know any of them my pain for them is real as I am also a Dad. The 3 photos I saw showed some fine looking teenagers with promising futures-well they used to have promising futures-and I can Not even BEGIN to fathom the pain their families will go thru the rest of their time on Earth drawing breath. Children Are Supposed to Out LIVE Parents. And those that were wounded while their bodies may heal I fear for their very souls. I also realize that words are just words. I also Know some words can be put together and pass on meanings and good thoughts far beyond my reach. My PRAYERS are up for All Famalies affected by this senselessness and I also PRAY that GOD grants them solace and healing.

[Rams]

One of the injured teens has now died.   That makes four.

Rams   

[Serk]

"A Michigan prosecutor on Friday filed involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of the 15-year-old suspect in the Oxford High School shooting."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/03/oxford-high-school-shooting-updates/8850669002/

[J.Mencalice]

Here's your gun son and three 15 round clips; now you go out there and have some fun,Merry Christmas.
There is no doubt in my thoughts that he bought that pistol for that loser kid.

The parents met TWICE with school officials about the kid's "behavior".
The absolute FIRST thing they should have done upon arriving home from the second meetup was to locate and secure that weapon from their precious little (and that society now knows), DEMENTED boy!

Accessories to four murders. They are as complicit as if they had pulled the trigger themselves. Render justice. Lock'em up.  No plea deals. Life sentences times three. No parole. Screw'em.

[Jess from VA]

"A Michigan prosecutor on Friday filed involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of the 15-year-old suspect in the Oxford High School shooting."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/03/oxford-high-school-shooting-updates/8850669002/

At some point, your negligent behavior passes the mere civil liability into criminal responsibility.  If it is true the dad bought the gun for the son it's even worse.  But unnecessary for a conviction on reckless (and likely foreseeable) endangerment, or involuntary manslaughter.  Adding the wife may be a prudent prosecution tactic as she may turn states evidence for a deal, or her involvement leads to both taking a plea agreement and sentence cap.  The dad seems the guiltier subject (on our limited facts).

The parents had a (2d?) meeting with school authorities (about the boys behavior) the same day he shot the school up.

Buy, show and then leave a new pistol (and ammo) out for your clearly troubled son to admire (and kill people with) seems like criminally poor parenting to me. 

[G-Man]

"A Michigan prosecutor on Friday filed involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of the 15-year-old suspect in the Oxford High School shooting."

Bravo!

I saw the DA give her talk and fell in love.  A smart, good looking blonde, with confidence and common sense ?!?!?  OMG !   

[Serk]

And it appears the parents have decided to run/hide, at least initially.... This gets stranger by the hour...

"The Detroit News reported that despite previously promising to show up if a warrant was put out for their arrest, the couple is not responding to messages from their attorney and can’t be found."

https://nypost.com/2021/12/03/fugitive-squad-searching-for-ethan-crumbleys-parents/

[Romeo]

Here's your gun son and three 15 round clips; now you go out there and have some fun,Merry Christmas.
There is no doubt in my thoughts that he bought that pistol for that loser kid.

The parents met TWICE with school officials about the kid's "behavior".
The absolute FIRST thing they should have done upon arriving home from the second meetup was to locate and secure that weapon from their precious little (and that society now knows), DEMENTED boy!

Accessories to four murders. They are as complicit as if they had pulled the trigger themselves. Render justice. Lock'em up.  No plea deals. Life sentences times three. No parole. Screw'em.

itll all come out in a trial hopefully. Apparently there are reams of text evidence between perp and his parents, including his mom telling him “ don’t do it” after they had met with school staff that morning to discuss some very violent pictures he had drawn, as well as her telling him, she’s not mad at him, after he was caught checking out ammo sites at school. Apparently she told him, you need to do a better job of not getting caught.

[old2soon]

          Jess I along with others Thank You for the perspective on some legal issues. Some well maybe more than Some attempting to blame the weapon-in this case a hand gun-again and have noticed lame stream media have Totally Completely bypassed the Very Troubled youth that Decided to shoot everyone up. Most of us here in our electronic clubhouse KNOW like most things in society must be OPERATED by someone that hopefully has their head screwed on straight. We also Know just about Any vehicle can be Weaponized. Is anyone any Less dead whether stabbed run over by a vehicle or shot with a pistol a rifle or a shotgun? We-collectively-KNOW that answer. While the prosecutor there makes sense I forsee a better than average lawyer(s) and phscy types defending this MURDERES actions. You know presumption of innocence Until and Unless PROVEN otherwise. RIDE SAFE.

[Romeo]

Just saw there’s a man hunt underway for the parents. Don’t have any details

[Jess from VA]

One might reasonably conclude that running away and hiding is evidence of a guilty conscience.   

[Wizzard]

They probably went to the UP 

[Oss]

Just a tragedy from every perspective

Prayers for the families of those who were killed (the ultimate cancel culture)

Been on the downhill side of bullying, robbery and assault as a kid in the bronx during the heroin wars period.   its worse when guns and knives are involved

But you need neither to change a life forever

[Wizzard]

Just a tragedy from every perspective

Prayers for the families of those who were killed (the ultimate cancel culture)

Been on the downhill side of bullying, robbery and assault as a kid in the bronx during the heroin wars period.   its worse when guns and knives are involved

But you need neither to change a life forever

Well said

[cookiedough]

Times have changed. I got bullied in Jr High and upon my Dad's advice he told me if the kid harmed me physically to take my fist and hit him on the nose as hard as I can. I said what if he hits me back. Dad said that hurt will only last for awhile but if I don't it will last a lifetime. I did it, broke his nose and never got bullied again ever.

My Dad was much the same. He would tell me that if he ever heard of me picking on someone, there would be hell to pay. And the next sentence was that if someone ever did anything to me first, I would never be in trouble with him for beating the person up. I was never bullied, but my younger brother was and I had more than a few fights defending him.
  I think we had it much easier back then. With this constant social media kids are involved with these days it must be very hard. I don’t know anything of the recent situation, but I’m sure there are kids out there that feel helpless. I think even more detrimental is the effect it has on young girls. Many take their own lives because of the pressure.

same here with my Dad telling me NEVER start a fight but he had no problem me ending them even getting several detentions along the way, luckily no suspensions.  Principal knew I was a good kid and would not start the fight, but beating up bullies he knew I done right he could not just tell me he agreed being the principal.  

also right on young girls under pressure from social media.  Had that in my family daughter age 15 or so with a 17 year old boy posting crap about her on social media I was unaware of until I had to get the  county police involved to go knock on the youngsters door indicating even ONE more text or anything on my daughter and he will be in juvi jail.  Luckily the kid took the police advice and NOT ONE more contact with the jerk.  Daughter was so upset we had to go to a few counseling sessions since she felt like committing suicide at the time and she was on meds as well.  Wife convinced me to NOT go over and beat the crap outta him and even if I got jail time, would have been worth it to me.

Now seems like this MI school shooting not only will the parents get jail time, but the school officials involved will also be put out there as not doing their job very well to prevent this horrible act of violence, possible jail time as well, maybe?

I still think a metal detector in most bigger schools is required to pass thru daily not just say security cameras in the entrances and hallways.  If it saves one death,  all that money spent is well worth it.  Bigger schools have security guards right?  why not metal detectors to pass thru daily upon entering the schools?

[JimC]

Bigger schools have security guards right?  why not metal detectors to pass thru daily upon entering the schools?

Cookie, next time you are in the area of a large high school, ride around it and count the doors. Our HS has almost 30 sets of doors. Plus, you can not lock them due to fire regulations. We have a hard time keeping drugs and guns out of jails and prisons, do you really think we can keep them out of schools?

To reduce these issues,  we need the proper reactions to threats from; students, parents, school staff, AND police. Obviously this situation was lacking in several of those areas.

Jim