Too Many Oil Choices

[F6Dave]

I bought a new car that specifies 0W-20 motor oil. I hate using something that thin but I'll have it analyzed and keep it through the warranty if the results are good.

I went to Walmart and was amazed at how many oil flavors are available. I think Mobil 1 has regular, high mileage, hybrid, energy conserving, Euro, and premium! It's like the beer department with all those fancy craft beers.

[f6john]

106,000 miles running 0-20 in our 2015 Camary with zero issues. I’ve done every oil change since new using Mobile 1.

[old2soon]

    That 2010 Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix I recently got calls for 0/20 5/20 or 5/30 full synthetic. It had just under 90 G on the clock when I got her and Ross had no issues when he drove it down to me 12 of 24 and I had no issues coming back to My Brothers place 2 uf 24. The way I was brought up and the engines I first used these oils would For a FACT be too ligh for those older engines. Course even With proper maint engines then could Not go 250000 450000 miles tween rebuilds. Ross's 01 GMC has a bit N of 272000 miles on the clock and it is using some oil. Also remember some newer engines well N of 700 H/P and some over 1000 H/P now from the factory! Even 700 H/P was wishful thinkin for alcohol modifieds in the 60s and 70s even after Huge outlays of cubic $$$$!      As too the O/P I will also be paying close attention to oil levels tween changes BUT that's nuttin new fer me! Learned a Long time ago to pay attention to my engines large and small!  RIDE SAFE.

[sandy]

Because of CNC machining, tolerances of new engines are much tighter. The 0W oils are needed to flow in the tighter engines. ALL 0W oils are synthetic. My daughter’s 2018 Mazda calls for either 0W or 5W oil. My ‘94 F 150 needs at least 10W as well as our Valks.

[Rams]

Because of CNC machining, tolerances of new engines are much tighter. The 0W oils are needed to flow in the tighter engines. ALL 0W oils are synthetic. My daughter’s 2018 Mazda calls for either 0W or 5W oil. My ‘94 F 150 needs at least 10W as well as our Valks.

Agreed on the tighter tolerances.   My BIL, a mechanical engineer just recently retired from Cummins told me the tighter tolerances and use of lighter weight oils is all due to the mileage requirements from EPA.   He also advised me that around 100K miles he would advise to move from going from 0W to a 5W oil simply due to wear on the components.

Rams

[cookiedough]

    That 2010 Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix I recently got calls for 0/20 5/20 or 5/30 full synthetic. It had just under 90 G on the clock when I got her and Ross had no issues when he drove it down to me 12 of 24 and I had no issues coming back to My Brothers place 2 uf 24. The way I was brought up and the engines I first used these oils would For a FACT be too ligh for those older engines. Course even With proper maint engines then could Not go 250000 450000 miles tween rebuilds. Ross's 01 GMC has a bit N of 272000 miles on the clock and it is using some oil. Also remember some newer engines well N of 700 H/P and some over 1000 H/P now from the factory! Even 700 H/P was wishful thinkin for alcohol modifieds in the 60s and 70s even after Huge outlays of cubic $$$$!      As too the O/P I will also be paying close attention to oil levels tween changes BUT that's nuttin new fer me! Learned a Long time ago to pay attention to my engines large and small!  RIDE SAFE.

kids, well actually mine, 2004 pontiac vibe am guessing same 1.8L toyota engine (or even 2.4L) recommends 5w-30 oil (I use semi-synthetic but synthetic is fine also) and that is what I would use in it.  Oil filters usually AC delco, carquest premium, or even used walmarts supertech (higher end) as well which IMO appear decent quality for price paid.  He has around 180K miles on Vibe now and hope it lasts thru 200K miles since he only puts on about 7K miles per year on it, so about another 3 years.  Should get him by so by then he can afford his own car payments not surprise me he will, like you, but a newer 2009 or 2010 pontiac vibe since bought at 104K miles about 8-9 years ago for 4 grand is all.  Is starting to burn some oil though but not too much but is only 4 qts. of oil so gotta keep an eye on it for sure every month or so.

I regularly use from fleet farm CITGO supergard oil either semi or full synthetic whichever is on sale in 5qt jug can be had for AFTER REBATE about 12-19 bucks per 5qt jug which is hard to beat.  Been using that mostly all the time being CITGO supergard oil no problems so far on any vehicles. 

Now my 2021 tundra truck calls for 0w-20 full synthetic and try to use slightly better quality oil like Valvoline, etc. but last oil changed it up to buying kirkland COSTCO oil on sale price seemed right and heard decent things on kirkland costo full synthetic oil in 5qt jug.  I do go thru tad over 8 qts. of oil capacity so NOT cheap and only use toyota dealer OEM oil filters since feel they are about the ONLY oil filter where the stealerships parts dept. is not price gouging me at around 6 bucks per oil filter by toyota.  I do not go over 8000 miles on the oil though even though supposedly can go 10000 miles which I feel is too much even on full synthetic oils.  All my other vehicles I change oil by 5000 miles which is probably too soon but better safe than sorry. 

The days of 3 month and 3000 mile oil changes for vehicles is long gone but if those want to go ahead and change oil that frequently, more power to you. 

[cookiedough]

As far as varieties of oils,  I have used energy conserving and high mileage and regular/normal and really think it does not matter.  energy conserving does not save on gas. LOL.  What does matter is changing oil every say 5-8K miles or for sure once per year, my 2 cents worth.   

[F6Dave]

I'm sure the 0W-20 will work fine. I can't imagine a manufacturer specifying an oil that would cause increased warranty claims. It's an Acura and I want the engine to last as long as my other 6 cylinder Hondas.

The problem is that EPA zealots have forced engineering compromises that favor fuel mileage over reliability. That despised stop/start 'feature' on newer vehicles saves a miniscule amount of fuel at the expense of higher wear and tear on starters and batteries. Some vehicles have added a second battery to handle the extra current draw.

Many engines that used to call for 5W-20 or 30 now spec 0W-20, even though no internal changes were made. This saves a meaningless amount of fuel but might decrease longevity a bit, especially in very hot climates. I've read that some US engines call for thinner oils than identical engines in Mexico.

[cookiedough]

I personally would never use 0w-20 oil in older cars calling for say either 5w-20 or 5w-30 oil which I think all cars say 20 years old like my kids 2004 pontiac vibe are.  My first scenario of any vehicle I have ever owned requiring (recommended)  0w-20 was my 2007 toyota tundra 5.7L V8 which when first used it was like water viscosity. 

[98valk]

I bought a new car that specifies 0W-20 motor oil. I hate using something that thin but I'll have it analyzed and keep it through the warranty if the results are good.

I went to Walmart and was amazed at how many oil flavors are available. I think Mobil 1 has regular, high mileage, hybrid, energy conserving, Euro, and premium! It's like the beer department with all those fancy craft beers.

everything u would what to know can be found here.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/forums/passenger-car-motor-oil-pcmo-gasoline-vehicles.1/

[F6Dave]

I bought a new car that specifies 0W-20 motor oil. I hate using something that thin but I'll have it analyzed and keep it through the warranty if the results are good.

I went to Walmart and was amazed at how many oil flavors are available. I think Mobil 1 has regular, high mileage, hybrid, energy conserving, Euro, and premium! It's like the beer department with all those fancy craft beers.

everything u would what to know can be found here.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/forums/passenger-car-motor-oil-pcmo-gasoline-vehicles.1/

I read BITOG all the time. That site knows how to do an oil thread!

[F6Dave]

When shopping for that thin 0W-20 oil at Walmart I noticed that there's been some more consolidation in the industry. Shell now owns Pennzoil and Quaker State.

[98valk]

I bought a new car that specifies 0W-20 motor oil. I hate using something that thin but I'll have it analyzed and keep it through the warranty if the results are good.

I went to Walmart and was amazed at how many oil flavors are available. I think Mobil 1 has regular, high mileage, hybrid, energy conserving, Euro, and premium! It's like the beer department with all those fancy craft beers.

everything u would what to know can be found here.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/forums/passenger-car-motor-oil-pcmo-gasoline-vehicles.1/

I read BITOG all the time. That site knows how to do an oil thread!

yes sir they do. 

[GiG]

Too many oil changes can get very expensive   

[F6Dave]

After learning that Shell bought Pennzoil and Quaker State, I looked up ownership of other brands. Saudi Aramco now owns Valvoline, the oldest brand of motor oil. They also plan on buying Castrol.

So Mobil 1 and Chevron's Delo are about the only major oil brands still made by American owned companies. It's like the beer industry, where Belgian and Canadian companies own every major American brewery.

[Robert]

The lower number or w in 0w/20 does not mean to much except for extreme cold climates. In fact if

you live in a hotter climate it may be to thin.

The chart shows the truth about the viscosity of the oils talked about in relation to other oils.

 There are so many factors in choosing oil that car recommendation by the MFG is only one

consideration. Many fall under Severe duty without

knowing is also a problem. Smaller engines, equal smaller passages, equal lower grade oil for flow. The

MFG has to comply with EPA and the government in telling you oil grades and how to achieve the gas

mileage advertised. They are not majorly concerned with longevity since its better for them if you

buy a new car. When the 20 weight oils first came out there was a problem and many engines

were destroyed. A reformulated version worked. My car calls for 15/40, I use a 5/50, because of the

heat and here in Florida it is considered severe duty. The actual film strength on the 50 is greater

than the 40 and when hot without a real change in flow characteristics. That is the important factor to

choosing the right oil too. IF the film strength is not enough then wear occurs. The new cars that shut

off are interesting, since we were always told that wear occurs on startup. So how do they figure that

in? This is only to give information to help eliminate some choices as for oil. The oil at the piston skirt

is very hot and looses viscosity quickly. Many of the engines being replaced are due to loss of ring

sealing due to thinner oil I believe rather than failure of bearings. Any oil can lubricate and float a

crank given the right tolerance but that same thin oil may not be able to lubricate the upper end of the

the engine correctly. Film strength is an important factor in choice. Also why the push for thinner oils, EPA fuel

mileage rules simply put. Thinner oil gets better mileage, making an engine for the real world that works with thinner

oils gets much harder to do. Engine failure because of thinner oil, the cost of doing business.




https://autotrends.org/maintenance-schedule-severe-driving/

According to Repair Pal, “You probably don’t think the way you drive would fall under “severe” driving — most of us don’t.” However, you might fall into the severe maintenance category if you take frequent trips less than 10 miles, drive in heavy stop-and-go traffic, do a lot of heavy towing, or drive in dusty conditions. The weather also comes into play. If you drive in extremely cold or extremely hot climates, then you might need car maintenance more often.

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/home/learn/car-maintenance/oil-viscosity-explained.html
As an example, let’s compare 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 motor oils. A 5W-20 and 5W-30 will have very similar if not equal viscosity at lower start-up temperatures. But as the engine heats up, the 5W-20 will move with less resistance than an 5W-30. Less resistance results in improved fuel economy but the oil is not as thick and forms a smaller layer of protection between metal surfaces. If we compare a 5W-30 and a 10W-30, they will behave very similarly as the engine heats up, but at start-up, the 5W-30 will provide less resistance and start easier than the 10W-30. The 5W-20 will have a lower viscosity and provide less resistance than the 10W-30 at both start-up and normal engine operating temperatures.

In the past, it was common for vehicles to require higher viscosity oils such as 20W-50’s, 10W-40’s and 10W-30’s. But as engine technology has advanced over the years, the size of engines and pathways in engine that oil flows through have gotten smaller and thinner. This has led over time to motor oil viscosity decreasing – currently 5W-30 and 5W-20 are the most popular grade and 0W-20 is the fastest growing grade. These lower viscosity motor oils are needed to move through the thin engine pathways to protect and clean metal surfaces.  Lower viscosity motor oils also result in better fuel economy.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength
The Importance of Lubricant Film Strength




https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/134257/does-motor-oil-get-more-viscous-when-heated-what-is-the-meaning-of-the-sae-mot

viscosity characteristics: Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus the higher the SAE code. Larger numbers in the code are thicker.

The company called Anton Paar has analyzed these SAE coded motor oil for the parameters, Kinematic viscosity and oil density versus elevating temperatures. I have included some of graphs including SAE 5W-40, but failed to find the most common SAE 5W-30:

[cookiedough]

Too many oil changes can get very expensive   

tell me about it!  5 vehicles, ATV/UTV, and 3-4 cycles and I keep the oil mfgs. in business alone, let alone a few push mowers and snowblower.   

oil changes are still cheaper than a new engine I always say.

For those that use AMSOIL, supposedly the best and one of highest cost,  do you by into their claim to go 20K miles between oil changes?  I do NOT since NO oil filters that I know of should really go over 10K miles. 

I say 1 oil change per year regardless of miles or for sure under 8000 miles even if synthetic oil used.  I go mostly semi-synthetic at 5000 miles and under 6 mths on vehicles.  The price difference though with full synthetic ONLY being about 1 buck per qt. more is all though than semi-synthetic makes sense to go FULL synthetic nowadays. 

most modern oils are fine to use as long as viscosity used is recommended, my .02 cents.

I use to use AMSOIL for my Valks, but got to be too expensive per qt. past 5-6 years not paying over 11 bucks per one qt. of oil.  rotella T6 5w-40 is good deal

[Robert]

 I do NOT since NO oil filters that I know of should really go over 10K miles.  

So I wanted the best oil filter for my car and motorcycle so I used to buy the Purolator Pure One. Well

come to find out

that they are only rated to go 3k even with full synthetic oil. Felt ripped off with this one since

I usually go 7k between oil changes.

All oil filters have switched to synthetic media to go the distance. Many now come with oil filter inserts.

[cookiedough]

 I do NOT since NO oil filters that I know of should really go over 10K miles.  

So I wanted the best oil filter for my car and motorcycle so I used to buy the Purolator Pure One. Well

come to find out

that they are only rated to go 3k even with full synthetic oil. Felt ripped off with this one since

I usually go 7k between oil changes.

All oil filters have switched to synthetic media to go the distance. Many now come with oil filter inserts.

not sure where you getting ONLY 3K miles for purolator oil filters from, website says 10K, 15K,20K, although the cost justification of the BOSS one at 20K intervals makes it too pricey for me.  I use the PL ones mostly from purolator and even those not going over 10K ever.

https://www.purolatornow.com/en/products/oil-filters/purolator.html

[F6Dave]

I found a simple alternative to guessing and worrying about the oil and filters I used: get the used oil analyzed. I switched to Quaker State for my F150 and the wife's Escape because it cost a lot less than the Mobil 1 I was using. The test results were the same. I switched from Bosch to the cheap Walmart Super Tech oil filters on my F6B and Valks. The test results were slightly better with Super Tech filters.

I'm curious how well the 0W-20 oil in my new car holds up so I just sent a sample to Blackstone Labs. I'll share the results. One nice thing on a Blackstone report is that they compare your results with other engines of the same brand and type.

[Robert]

I found a simple alternative to guessing and worrying about the oil and filters I used: get the used oil analyzed. I switched to Quaker State for my F150 and the wife's Escape because it cost a lot less than the Mobil 1 I was using. The test results were the same. I switched from Bosch to the cheap Walmart Super Tech oil filters on my F6B and Valks. The test results were slightly better with Super Tech filters.

I'm curious how well the 0W-20 oil in my new car holds up so I just sent a sample to Blackstone Labs. I'll share the results. One nice thing on a Blackstone report is that they compare your results with other engines of the same brand and type.

    

I'm interested, thanks

[F6Dave]

The results are in. The 0W-20 OEM oil held its viscosity quite well, even after 7,324 miles. I planned to have the oil changed when I was in Arizona in January, but the dealer said Acura only pays for their 'free' oil changes when the maintenance app shows oil life below 20%. So I decided to change it myself when I got home and pull a sample for analysis. Like all Hondas, the Acura uses the same filter, drain plug, and washer as our Valkyries.

The wear metals are high, but that should clear up as the engine breaks in. I'm sure pushing the oil over 7K miles raised the levels. For comparison, I've included the analysis of another 6 cylinder Honda, my '98 Tourer, with over 176,000 miles. Hopefully the Acura will hold up that well.

[f6john]

I wish I had snapped a few pictures of my Titans engine while I have the valve covers off last week. 209,000 miles and the overhead cam lobes looked new, no sludge, no gunkyness, anywhere up top. 10W30 Mobile 1 oil for all those miles and no oil usage until my valve covers sprung a leak. My average interval for oil changes have been every 5k  miles and oil filters brands have changed a little over the years but apparently they have been doing there job too. I use it in my Corvette, and Camary also. I did change to Rotella T6 for my Goldwing just to see if it was hype or not, but I really like it and the transmission shifts super smooth. I have a 95 Impala SS with 217,000 miles all on Dino

[Robert]

The results are in. The 0W-20 OEM oil held its viscosity quite well, even after 7,324 miles. I planned to have the oil changed when I was in Arizona in January, but the dealer said Acura only pays for their 'free' oil changes when the maintenance app shows oil life below 20%. So I decided to change it myself when I got home and pull a sample for analysis. Like all Hondas, the Acura uses the same filter, drain plug, and washer as our Valkyries.

The wear metals are high, but that should clear up as the engine breaks in. I'm sure pushing the oil over 7K miles raised the levels. For comparison, I've included the analysis of another 6 cylinder Honda, my '98 Tourer, with over 176,000 miles. Hopefully the Acura will hold up that well.

Thanks for that numbers dont look bad in fact pretty good. 

[F6Dave]

The results are in. The 0W-20 OEM oil held its viscosity quite well, even after 7,324 miles. I planned to have the oil changed when I was in Arizona in January, but the dealer said Acura only pays for their 'free' oil changes when the maintenance app shows oil life below 20%. So I decided to change it myself when I got home and pull a sample for analysis. Like all Hondas, the Acura uses the same filter, drain plug, and washer as our Valkyries.

The wear metals are high, but that should clear up as the engine breaks in. I'm sure pushing the oil over 7K miles raised the levels. For comparison, I've included the analysis of another 6 cylinder Honda, my '98 Tourer, with over 176,000 miles. Hopefully the Acura will hold up that well.

Thanks for that numbers dont look bad in fact pretty good. 

Not bad, but I sure want that copper number to drop.

A big surprise is that moly number. Maybe Acura uses a different oil for break-in. I've read they do that for Goldwing final drives and also for the rear diff on SH-AWD Acuras.

[Robert]

The results are in. The 0W-20 OEM oil held its viscosity quite well, even after 7,324 miles. I planned to have the oil changed when I was in Arizona in January, but the dealer said Acura only pays for their 'free' oil changes when the maintenance app shows oil life below 20%. So I decided to change it myself when I got home and pull a sample for analysis. Like all Hondas, the Acura uses the same filter, drain plug, and washer as our Valkyries.

The wear metals are high, but that should clear up as the engine breaks in. I'm sure pushing the oil over 7K miles raised the levels. For comparison, I've included the analysis of another 6 cylinder Honda, my '98 Tourer, with over 176,000 miles. Hopefully the Acura will hold up that well.

Thanks for that numbers dont look bad in fact pretty good. 

Not bad, but I sure want that copper number to drop.

A big surprise is that moly number. Maybe Acura uses a different oil for break-in. I've read they do that for Goldwing final drives and also for the rear diff on SH-AWD Acuras.

Since they have have dropped the levels of Zinc in the oil I have recently tried the Redline Break in oil as an additive in the oil at changes. I use probably a 1/4 of the bottle for each change and have noticed a difference in smoothness and gas mileage. The government cut down on this vital additive because of the catalytic.

I have also used the Liqui Moly rear end moly additive and it works well in the diffs of the motorcycle and car. I also tried the Liqui Moly Moly additive for the engine and had mixed results. Had to take the bottom oil pan off the car and clean it because the additive did not fully circulate through the engine but collected in the oil pan making a deposit on the inside of the pan around the oil pickup.

I currently use the Moly Gen 5W/50 and really like it though. I immediately noticed a drop in temp of the engines I have put it in and the inside is clean as a whistle. 

Your numbers should start to drop back to the normal levels as you get some more miles on it.

Older engines are pretty cool since without spark plugs in them you can sometimes turn them by hand.

One of the best combos that work really nicely on the diffs in the valk is the Redline or Mobil One 140 rear oil and one tube of the Liquimoly rear end additive. Smoother and quieter, maybe better gas mileage also.

MoS2 Antifric­tion for Gears
https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/us/mos2-antifriction-for-gears-p000009.html#2019

One of the other oils I use is the
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-58205-Heavy-ShockProof/dp/B000J3K0OY?th=1
Red Line 58205 Heavy ShockProof Gear Oil - 1 Gallon

This oil has the oil Film thickness greater than an SAE 75W250, yet low fluid friction like 75W90 which is perfect for many rear ends. 

I use this in the diffs of my 4wd since the front diff is known to have bearing problems and was a little bit noisy. It helped to quiet it down and makes for a smoother ride. Its not limited slip so its just gears and the extra protection does not hurt.

I also use it in my cars since again they are not LS and it seems to give better mileage and a smoother ride.

Was just looking at the Zinc numbers on the car and they are pretty low. But as you said maybe a break in oil.

Compared to the Valk which is more where I am used to seeing them be. Manufactures had to harden valve tappets and cams to get by with the lower Zinc numbers and have the engine live.

[Rams]

While not specifically about all the oil options out there, I recently learned that O'Reilly's will no longer take used oil back even if you bought the new oil there (at least locally).   O'Reilly will now only accept used oil if, the person bringing it in pays a disposal fee.

In that all retail stores sell the used oil to recyclers (at a very small profit), it seems to me that O'Reilly is attempting to double dip the profit margin.   Auto Zone and Advance Auto will still take the used oil regardless of where it's purchased.   Doing so helps bring customers back to their stores.

Rams

[Robert]

While not specifically about all the oil options out there, I recently learned that O'Reilly's will no longer take used oil back even if you bought the new oil there (at least locally).   O'Reilly will now only accept used oil if, the person bringing it in pays a disposal fee.

In that all retail stores sell the used oil to recyclers (at a very small profit), it seems to me that O'Reilly is attempting to double dip the profit margin.   Auto Zone and Advance Auto will still take the used oil regardless of where it's purchased.   Doing so helps bring customers back to their stores.

Rams

The problem is you cannot sell used oil in this market, you are charged for picking it up. Now the fee is nominal and I cannot believe the stores cannot come up with an extra 100 or 200 to cover the cost.

 I guess they did not have enough oil and it was probably messy, coupled along with some municipalities probably made all kinds of restrictions that stores had to meet to keep and collect used oil probably made it not worth it.

Some areas make you have a retaining wall around the oil in case the storage container breaks and the oil would spill out.