Toyota

[big turkey]

Would you buy a bike if it was made by Toyota.

I am a Harley Rider and catch all kinds of flack , like you why 90% of all ht Harleys made are still on the rode.

Because only 10% made it back home.

The toyota thing is a real tragedy, and the strories will make a grown man cry.

Hope they fix those things soon .

remember we share the rode wiht these deadly defects all around us.

Just imagine a school zone, or some other high safety zone. This ain't good flolks and it looks like State Farm warned the NHTSA 2 years ago.

Government at work.

And they want to run our Health Care, what a joke.

[big turkey]

Car Accelerator Stuck: Four People's Death Captured on 911 Call (Including 13 YR Girl)	powered by Aeva

[big turkey]

remeber we share the oad Ways wiht these cars, be it ona Motorcycle or kids riding to school wiht mom or Dad.

Toyota president "deeply sorry" for car accidents	powered by Aeva

[Serk]

...funny how now that the government is a major stake holder in one of Toyota's biggest competitors, they're going after Toyota so ferociously...

Until recently, I'd driven nothing but Toyotas... If their current lineup didn't put me to sleep from boredom, I'd still be driving one, I really think this whole issue is being blown WAY outta proportion...

...but that's just my humble opinion...

[big turkey]

If you own one of these cars park it and take a bus cab or simply ride you motorcycle.

This is a real problem.

Runaway Toyota's - Toyota accused of concealing & destroying evidence	powered by Aeva

They told this fellow that lost his wife in the crash that he simply must have been pushing the accellerator pedal by mistake.

Thanks for the compassion Toyota.

remember you are on the same road ways as these killer cars.

If you have one park it.

[Mikey]

Don't worry, Toyota isn't the only one that does it... Every car company would do the exact same thing. Especially today, with people trying to pass the blame to someone else. And if memory serves, it's only the "domestic" Toyota's that are getting recalled. Think on that.

[alph]

I can not understand why the hell couldn't they just put it into neutral? Or turn the engine off, or pull the emergency break!!!

All emergency breaks are required to be cable actuated, a fail proof system.

[Valker]

There are no more "emergency" brakes....they are only "parking" brakes.

[big turkey]

Alph it defies the imagination that the driver or someone in the vehicle did not think of something.

But there maybe more to this than we have been told.

It will come out eventually .

But if you have one of these cars weither get rid of it, trade it, leave the keys in it at the mall, or just plan take it to the dealer and demand a new car without the problem of course wiht your lawyer wiht you and scream bloody murder until you get what you want.

AL

[Daniel Meyer]

I can not understand why the hell couldn't they just put it into neutral? Or turn the engine off, or pull the emergency break!!!

All emergency breaks are required to be cable actuated, a fail proof system.

These are "fly by wire" systems...the brake and gas do not connect to any linkage or such...they are read electronically and tell the computer what to do. In some cars the shifter is as well. It's entirely possible that they could not do anything.

Some, and I don't recall which models, the shifter or the key would have done the trick. My understanding is that some would not if the computer had lost it or had control.

A parking brake won't stop a car under power...at least none I've ever had.

On the flip side, ya gotta wonder why so many are up in arms about it. Ford still has the "randomly bursting into flames, even if turned off" bug...and in my experience, Fords (I love 'em but) have been randomly bursting into flames for several decades now, Dodge has the "may get into destructive harmonic vibrations and rip the complete front end out" bug (which they had as early as 1997 and are still fighting on new trucks), the wife's nissan (which has been a great car) has been back for mandatory recalls about a dozen times now etc.

Seems like business as normal for the car guys...just this time everybody is up in arms about it.

[BudMan]

Electronic brakes?    Which cars? I don’t know of any, but would like to know which ones to avoid.  I NEVER want something like that!!! 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Of the top 10 made in America cars ....Toyota is # 1 , # 6 , # 7 and # 10..... 4 of the top ten American made cars are Toyota.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0709

[big turkey]

Bud Man, electronic brakes are called anti lock brakes and guess what they are controlled by the same computer.

And the way Windows Operating Systems crash I don't blame you for not trusting antilock brakes.

Bought the only way to stop is ram into the back of a Semi and that would slow them down or get into the grass along the interstate and it would spin out or aim for the nearest Toyota Executive with the thing.

This is serious and efeects millions of cars on the road.

Remember you are on a Motorcycle and thsese things are out there wiht us.

[Willow]

Alph it defies the imagination that the driver or someone in the vehicle did not think of something.

Perhaps then a better imagination would be in order.

If you watch the video you'll see on the chart that he shows incidents "skyrocketing" to 320 per year.  Then he freely confesses that certainly some of those 320 were indeed caused by a poorly positioned floor mat.   I suspect that some of them were also caused by folks attempting to get in on the litigation lottery.

320 out of some seventy million on the road.  Your chances are likely better getting struck by lightning.

Individuals panicking over these reports are being herded by the media.  That's exactly why democracy no longer works with a technologically advanced but logically dumbed down populace.

In my humble opinion, of course.  

[Daniel Meyer]

Electronic brakes?    Which cars? I don’t know of any, but would like to know which ones to avoid.  I NEVER want something like that!!! 

Pretty much anything hybrid that uses regenerative braking, and pretty much anything with Electronic Stability Control...the computer can and does completely override or limit user input to any and/or all wheels depending on what its sensors and software are telling it to do.

Pretty cool stuff...when it works. Pretty scary stuff with a bug in the SW, bad sensor, etc...

[big turkey]

 I respect your opinion Willow you are a fair minded fellow who I respect.

However,,,,,,,,,, a word Detonator likes to use.

Willow don't forget the Lawyers lining up for this feast.

And a lot of times people are just not wanting to get involved or poorly informed.

The wife was driving so that's it.

the daughter did not want to tell the truth.

The son ws just hot rodding.

It's hard to prove a software problem.

And these cars are simlpy getting older and this could be the tip of the Ice Berg.

A quote from a Scientist who was a genious, who developed all current H Bombs.

"It's hard to live down a bad reputation, just as it is hard to live down a good reputaion."


Can't tell you his name but it makes sense.

[alph]

My first car was a Toyota corolla.  I loved it! 

Bought my wife a new ford Windstar in '99, myself an '01 f-150.  I had a recall on my f-150 four years ago concerning the cruise control being a potential fire hazard 'cause it could leak break fluid onto the exhaust manifold.  Although, it did not leak and the cruise worked fine they still recalled it.

Now the Windstar was leaking for the last four years, and after the f-150 recall I asked our dealer why hasn't the Windstar been recalled since they both have the same exact part?  I did buy the leaking part for the Windstar and installed it myself, but it took for until last November to issue a recall notice for my van.  Now it gets good!  Our ford dealer refuses to reimburse me the part because I put it in myself and I’m not a trained ford technician!!

We’re looking for a new vehicle.  It will most likely be a Nissan, Honda, or Toyota.  Sorry ford.
 

[BudMan]

Pretty cool stuff...when it works. Pretty scary stuff with a bug in the SW, bad sensor, etc...

  Holy cow! Here I am trying to avoid electronic brakes and I already have some!  I never thought about anti skid, but there it is.  I think I’ll stay on the scooters as much as I can! 

[Skinhead]

I don't know about Toyotas, but most if not all vehicles that I am familiar with have a shift cable from the shift lever to the transmission.  Unless Toyota does it differently, all these victims could have shifted to neutral and avoided a high speed crash, IF THEY HAD TIME.  When a situation like this occurs, I'm sure the panic/pucker factor is pegged and the thought process slows down.  If I remember properly, the guy that broke this thing drove his Toyota to the dealer with a stuck throttle by shifting it in and out of neutral.  The engine was racing but no power gets to the wheels.  

In modern products made by government motors, engine speed is limited to about 4000 rpm in neutral, by the calibration which is flashed into the ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULE.  I know for a fact, as I work in this group, that these systems are rigorously tested, especially electronic controls.  That said, there appears to be a random failure mode that the engineers haven't figured out, and therefore don't know how to duplicate yet alone test/design for.  

I would not want to be one of the engineers, calibrators, suppliers, or managers associated with any part of this product/system, life will be very uncomfortable for them quite a while.  My heart goes out to the families of these victims.  The fact that Toyota denied they had a problem for so long, and now the document they uncovered, bragging about saving hundreds of millions on a recall, will only make matters worse for them.  And the lawyers will have a field day with that document.


I agree with that wise old sage Willow,  "I suspect that some of them were also caused by folks attempting to get in on the litigation lottery."

[Challenger]

I remember the Pintos that would burst into flames in a rear ender and Ford said they did not have problem until enough people were killed. I had an F-150 that the dealer said could catch fire with no one in it, something in the steering colum would short, Told me not to park in my garage at night until they had a fix, traded it off four years later with no word from Ford. I don't however remember all this BS, but then times are changing!

[Tropic traveler]

alph, I'm a Ford parts person & I can tell you why things went down that way. Yes it is true that the Windstar & F150 share the same cruise cancel switch but there are two major differences in the situation. First, the cruise switch on the F150 {& some other Fords} is powered all the time AND is located in a position that if it were to leak & catch on fire it would drip flaming brake fluid on parts of the truck below that could {& did in some cases} cause the whole truck to burn. And of course if parked in a garage take out the dwelling also. That is not the always the case on other Ford products using the same switch. Other Fords are not powering the CC switch with key off and/or do not have the switch located in such a way that flaming drips would catch the vehicle on fire.
The "fix" on non-leaking switch vehicles is a fused jumper harness that will not allow ignition from a leaking switch.
Leaking switch vehicles got a new switch AND harness.
There was a whole bunch of recalls issued & performed on vehicles that never would have had the problem for P.R. reasons.
As usual, the "problem" was out in the media long before there was an adequate supply of parts available to fill the demand, naturally leaving the dealer as the monkey in the middle catching hell from all sides.
As far as your not getting a refund I'm sure that was a legal CYA move.
IMHO the only real problem was a poor design that had the CC switch powered all the time on some trucks. All others added to the list were just Ford doing CYA.

[fstsix]

My 2000 ford exploder has the CC recall now also fire hazard. (2)- my 2005 Mustang has a safety recall for pregnant women seatbelt problem (3) 2008 2500 Dodge Cummins STEERING failure recall will cause loss of steering!! I AM RUNNING OUT OF ROOM ON REFRIGERATOR for all these  sounds to me like our new CEO MR O has found a new way to get rid of his competition. THE MEDIA.

[fudgie]

To me I think it kinda blown way outta proportion. Most vehicles have recalls but you never hear them going to testify infront of the Gov. Dad has a older Camery that he drives to work. Its on the road 7 days a week and maybe 100 miles a day or more. It gets better mpg then my Valk. Has 245k on it with only a water pump going bad. My Z-71 has had recalls on minor stuff and mechanical stuff that fails is just 'a common failure' on the low mile trucks.  ???

[fudgie]

My 2000 ford exploder has the CC recall now also fire hazard. (2)- my 2005 Mustang has a safety recall for pregnant women seatbelt problem (3) 2008 2500 Dodge Cummins STEERING failure recall will cause loss of steering!! I AM RUNNING OUT OF ROOM ON REFRIGERATOR for all these  sounds to me like our new CEO MR O has found a new way to get rid of his competition. THE MEDIA.

What do they do about the seat belt? Take the preg woman out?  ???

[fstsix]

Hehehe, i thought about that one when i posted it, i was setting myself up lol, my wife just looked at me and said how does it know if you are pregnant or a women? well i am not taking it for service just threw that one away so i could put my Grand daughter's picture back on the fridge.  just if you are small women? http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2005-to-2009-ford-mustang-9.htm

[C908]

I remember my first car a 1966 Corvair. My father worked for GM and said Ralph Nader was really putting the heat on them. Nadar claimed the Corvair was unsafe and would turn over easily causing it to be unsafe. As it turned out the Corvair was dropped for safety reasons and their value was practically nothing. I was 16 and wanted a car, my dad figured I would probably wreck my first car anyway so he bought me a Corvair really cheap. There were times I would take that car around corners like I was on a race track. Not once did I ever turn it over and it lasted 2 years until I turned in front of a Corvette. I totaled my Corvair and luckily no one was hurt very bad. We have had Toyota's in our family for over 20 years and they have been great cars. It appears to me Toyota has had a pretty good reputation for many years. It looks to me like a lot of different groups feel like Toyota is against the ropes and they are going in for the knock out.         

[alph]

alph, I'm a Ford parts person & I can tell you why things went down that way. Yes it is true that the Windstar & F150 share the same cruise cancel switch but there are two major differences in the situation. First, the cruise switch on the F150 {& some other Fords} is powered all the time AND is located in a position that if it were to leak & catch on fire it would drip flaming brake fluid on parts of the truck below that could {& did in some cases} cause the whole truck to burn. And of course if parked in a garage take out the dwelling also. That is not the always the case on other Ford products using the same switch. Other Fords are not powering the CC switch with key off and/or do not have the switch located in such a way that flaming drips would catch the vehicle on fire.
The "fix" on non-leaking switch vehicles is a fused jumper harness that will not allow ignition from a leaking switch.
Leaking switch vehicles got a new switch AND harness.
There was a whole bunch of recalls issued & performed on vehicles that never would have had the problem for P.R. reasons.
As usual, the "problem" was out in the media long before there was an adequate supply of parts available to fill the demand, naturally leaving the dealer as the monkey in the middle catching hell from all sides.
As far as your not getting a refund I'm sure that was a legal CYA move.
IMHO the only real problem was a poor design that had the CC switch powered all the time on some trucks. All others added to the list were just Ford doing CYA.

Hey,

I really appreciate that response!  Good and thorough. 

Here’s something scary!  If I’m not correct, aren’t the new Airbus aircrafts made in France all “fly-by-wire”?  I think of that every time I fly, and I’m on an Airbus aircraft…..

[Blackduck]

Don't think this is confined to Toyota.
A couple of months ago a Ford Territory did the same thing in Australia.
Sped up and could not shut off the engine or shift gears. He was lucky and did not hit anything and it finally stopped.
Steve

[Tundra]

I commend Toyota for their honesty and forthright handling of this situation. They certainly are being grilled and they aren't pointing fingers. Accepting full responsibility and dealing with the problem professionally.  Remember when American business acted that way???

[MCRIDER]

I commend Toyota for their honesty and forthright handling of this situation. They certainly are being grilled and they aren't pointing fingers. Accepting full responsibility and dealing with the problem professionally.  Remember when American business acted that way???

Honesty?  It's the fact that Toyota kept trying to hide the defects for years and their engineers, in typical japanese fashion, didn't want to admit that a mistake might have been made.  That's what Congress is trying to bring out.  Honesty is the point of the whole investigation.  Toyota was dishonest and now they have no option other than to put their tail between their legs and wimper away.  They are dishonest to say the least.

[Oss]

yikes

All cars are made of thousands of parts.
Parts contracts often go to the lowest prices competitor at bid
Even with quality control things go wrong  from cars to space shutlles

That a part fails once is random Hey I have lost the rack and pinion twice on my
chrysler 300m  When that happens you have NO STEERING WHEEL TURNS BUT THE CAR
KEEPS GOING FORWARD.  Could have easily been dead either time just like when a wheel
breaks off its axle or boot like on my 73 monte carlo..

When a manufacturer hides a problem then you bet your life you need
whistleblowers and people with conscience and morals to get a story out

When government and the manufacturer are unable or unwilling to protect
the public thank heavens for the lawyers who spend their life savings trying
to prove the culpability of a person or company (no death penalty for companies)
who makes a product that killed someones
wife husband mother or children  That first or second or third lawyer usually doesnt
win like the person who invents a product rarely gets rich so they are out big bucks
but the process helps the next lawyer get word out. Are some lawyers greedy ,  of course
just like the rest of the world. What is needed is a better mechanism for class action suits so more of the moneyon these cases goes to the injured and survivors after the lawyers get reasonable compensation for their work.

Willow   we differ on this one  the populace of sheep are easily herded yes but who is doing the
herding and what load of crap are we being asked to swallow by (a) govmt (b) toyota and
(c) why beat the lawyers who are trying for force Toyota to fix the process cause it sure wasnt
the govmt that did it on their own initiative

It took Toyota hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising to get their name

It would have taken much less money to dig down deep and fix the problem  They will
not go bankrupt any more than Ford has. Money will be spent again on advertising and people
will forget again. Toyota is no worse or better than any of the companies these days

My old corolla was a piece of crap  The clutch went out after 175000 miles  Man I miss that car
and I too can simply not wait long enough for the goverment to control more of my life in health care or anything else

[MNBill]

Check this out,,, this would suck !!!
Hope he gets millions from Toyota as well as the folks he hurt.

http://wcco.com/wireapnewsmn/Toyota.troubles.could.2.1519056.html

[Robert]

Toyota s are still one of the best cars on the road and if you think that all this electronic garbage wont affect you think again. I noticed that there was some misinformation about what cars do and dont have electronic brakes and what they really are and I would like to shed some light on this. Some older and all newer cars have abs brakes in different forms or names. The system uses a master cylinder and also has a abs unit that is a pump that pulses the brakes. The master cylinder provides the pressure for the brakes when the abs unit is not working. But the abs unit does control the brakes on a full on stop when you lock the brakes. The government wants stability control on new vehicles and its basically the abs system linked to yaw and roll sensors with a few others thrown in for good measure. The typical system compromises of a abs unit a accumulator and a computer. The real next logical step is to have the abs unit fully control the brakes and the jump is not all that great because it essentially does that now in a panic stop. No I dont like the idea either. Mercedes, Volkswagen, BMW, and some other cars do have electronic parking brakes that basically use the abs unit to supply pressure. Toyota for the most part still has manual parking brakes with a cable but the cars I listed and a few more dont. I can tell you that a few manufactures have had some real problems with brakes applying automatically while driving causing people to go off the road and it makes me wonder why we haven't heard anything about this. On the cars with electronic parking brakes it can be a real pain to do the rear brakes. On certain cars you have to disable the electronic brakes to do a brake job other wise the system may activate the brakes with the car off. If you open the trunk the brakes may be applied. Someone also talked about the shifter being put into neutral or park at speed and if there is a manual linkage. The cars should be able to be put into park or neutral without a problem but they are in some cases electronically connected with different scenarios as to how much it does. On most cars the shift lever does activate valves that allow the car to go into gears but without the computer it may not shift through the gears and in some cars may not start or even move out of park. The newer cars with paddle shift its all electronic with no linkage. Toyota for the most part are not this sophisticated and therefore dont fall into the same category. I wonder why the government hasn't seen all of the technical flaws in brakes and accelerators and such that plagued other manufacturers. Remember the Japs are great imitators and not so much on the creative side. They perfect a design and make it work when others seem to fail. The rotary engine is a good point the Japs were the only ones able to put it into significant production. I am not saying anything that the Japs are not innovators but this is just a general rule. This is why the Jap cars are usually on the top of the reliability list and Jap electronics is usually good and cheap. The new cars will not need as much mechanical repair but will need reprogramming which is scary thinking about all the code that fails on a regular computer. To program the new cars can take hours or even days and you have to have a power supply to keep them on and not dropping dead. If anyone has ever updated the bios on there computer its pretty much the same thing on a much grander scale. The car industry want to get out the bells and whistles on the new cars even at the cost of warranty repairs, customer paying for systems that fail and the cost of repair is through the roof. couple this with the fact that its computers with codes written by people that well have your best interest at heart and will not let you hurt yourself. So essentially the new cars are computers on wheels going through all sorts of life situations that someone on a computer wrote code for that told the car how it should perform in that situation while complying with goverment regulation on how they say things need to be.

[solo1]

I watched some of the Toyota hearings. A couple of things.

!. The Feds have a part ownership in GM and Chyrsler.
2. The Unions are supported by the Dems. Toytoa has not been kind to unions.
3.  Members of Congress mostly don't have engineering degrees.
4.  Members of Congress are excellent at covering up (might be a plus?)
5. Toyota has beaten the hell out of domestic cars in respect to quality. I guess payback is hell.

One question.  If Nancy Pelosi, Rangle, Reid or (insert name here) were used car salesmen, would you buy a car from them without checking it out?

[Mikey]

It is pretty amazing... even with the recalls, no Toyotas made Forbes Most Dangerous Vehicles of 2010...

[valkmc]

The more I watch, read about this I can't understand why vehicles such as cars don't have a little red button like my lawnmower and my valk to handle this problem. Seems to me alot of life and $ would have been saved if all cars had kill switches. Maybe someone should ask our crongessmen who don't seem to understand what the heck is happening.

[fudgie]

The more I watch, read about this I can't understand why vehicles such as cars don't have a little red button like my lawnmower and my valk to handle this problem. Seems to me alot of life and $ would have been saved if all cars had kill switches. Maybe someone should ask our crongessmen who don't seem to understand what the heck is happening.

I think its called the key! 

I dont know anyone that has used the 'red button' on a bike in accident. To me clutch and brake are more of a priority. 

[Daniel Meyer]

I think its called the key! 

Might work on some, not on others. I've no idea on the toyotas. I suspect not on the hybrids especially...

As far back a 1993, my wife's cutlass...the key didn't cut the power. It just told the computer to shut down stuff.

Twice that car would not turn off. Once all the dash stuff, lights, ac, etc came on by itself (car parked, locked, no key in it). At least it didn't start and run off...although as much of a POS as it was that might have been a favor.

*flying dutchcar!*

[Serk]

My 2008 Nissan doesn't have a place to put a key on the dash, just a big friendly START button... The key stays in your pocket...

And being the curious person I am, if you're driving along and push the START button (Which also stops the engine, when you're stopped) it ignores you, it will only shut the car down if you're stopped...

Luckily, it's a manual, so if the car does go all Christine on me, I can always push the clutch in...

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]