Advice for Dan Marc fuel valve solenoid users

[BonS]

I initially wired my solenoid valve to a nearby ignition coil supply wire. Bad idea.   Don't do it. The Dan Marc solenoid only draws 1.25 amps but the ignition coil need every bit of voltage/current it can get to avoid a high speed miss under acceleration. I rewired my solenoid to the accessory circuit and my high speed miss disappeared. It's great to have my full performance envelope back!

I had talked to Daniel at Inzane and he agreed that it was the likely culprit. Kudos to Daniel!

By the way, the Dan Marc valve is on sale. http://www.danmarcrvparts.com/12vomufushof.html

[X Ring]

You are aware there are two positves to each coil, aren't you?  One is common to all three and the other is the signal wire to each coil pack.  I tapped the common wire and used it to trigger a relay that supplied power to the Dan Marc.

Marty

[BonS]

I used the black/white supply to the coils. I like what you did, as a trigger for a 200 ma relay coil it might be just fine , but just not for driving a 10 ohm 1.25 amp solenoid coil. I like the idea of using it for a relay coil because it turns off the fuel when I kill the engine with the kill switch. Perhaps the next time I'm in there I'll try what you did but right now I'm skittish when it comes to loading this circuit because I don't know what its limits are. But I sure know what the symptoms are when it's overloaded.

[Oyeaa]

Hmmm,  I wired mine directly to the ignition coil and I have ran my Interstate Long long, fast and accelerated hard with two up and towing a trailer without any issues. 







http://www.danmarcrvparts.com/12vo1orinfis.html

[BonS]

Interesting, the model you show is different than the model I have. I have the Dan-Marc model 79-AFC15212 (AFC model 111). The model you have is Dan-Marc model BR-79-AFC11112 (AFC model 152).

The Dan-Marc web site doesn't spec the current draw of either of ours and nor does the AFC (Advanced Fuel Components) web site.

The orifice in your valve is only 0.110" versus 0.156" in the valve I have. Usually this means that your coil doesn't draw as much current as the coil in the model with the larger orifice size. This may very well explain your success directly wired to the coil. I'd love to know what the current draw of your solenoid valve is (or resistance) so we can approximate the "spare" current/voltage that is available from the coil wiring. In any case the 0.110" orifice is clearly big enough if it's handling your bike at speed, two up and with trailer!

I really like the model you found. Again, AFC doesn't spec the filter size on their web site but I like the built in filter. In addition, I see it also has a magnet for trapping ferrous particles, very cool.

[BonS]

I just noticed that the Model 152 specs a max of 1 amp right on the label. The model 111 draws 1.25 amps. So, it looks like 1 amp or less is a pretty good guess as to the maximum draw available on the ignition coil wires for a fuel valve. 1.25 amp sure didn't work out for me. I may very well switch over to the Model 152 because I really do like wiring direct to the ignition coils. I'd love to hear from others that have solenoid valves and their experiences.

[Oyeaa]

I have had both installed without any issues.  I took off and sold the unfiltered valve to a guy I work with for his dune buggy when I upgraded to the filtered model.  I wish I had held onto it for a little bench testing but I did not anticipate the need.

Actually they appear to be identical solenoid operated valves based on visual inspection of each.  One with a filter and one without a filter and with different fittings on either end.  Each with a different part number.

The label on both valves states 1 amp max.  I am uncertain where you got the 1.25 amp rating from though.  (Maybe you can clarify that rating source)    The one without a filter has 1/8" NPT female fittings on both ends and the hole in the center is larger as result of the female fittings, 0.156" while the valve with a filter has a 1/4" NPT male fitting on the discharge and even though it thread size is larger the orifice in the center is smaller.   (Please take a look at the OTHER unfiltered valve on the dan marc and AFC web sites  Item# 79-AFC15112.  That valve also has male 1/4" NPT fittings, it has no filter, but due to the male fitting has an orifice that is also 0.100")



AFC Model 152     Inline Filter Shut-Off Valve
Engineered for use in automotive, industrial, and refrigeration applications.
Features and Specifications
• Rated working pressure, 312 PSI
• 100,000 cycle tested.
• Lightweight, compact design features filter and shut-off valve in one unit
• Mounts directly onto regulator inlet
• High performance filtration capability with replaceable filter
• Resin impregnated cellulose element rated at 40 micron nominal (20 available)
• Bonded ceramic magnet traps fine metallic particles
• Ambient Temperature rating -40°F to +250°F
• Stocking 12 and 24 volt DC
• Rated for use with fuel, air and other media
• Orifice size .110”
• Superior quality construction, corrosion resistant — solid brass, plated steel and anodized aluminum
• All valves are date coded
• Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown
• Easy installation — 1/4” male pipe outlet
• One year warranty

AFC Model 111     Multi-Fuel Shut-Off Valve
Engineered for use in automotive, industrial, temperature and dispensing control applications.
Features and Specifications
• Working pressure 0-130 PSI
• 2-way normally closed inline solenoid
• Orifice size .156” for adequate flow of all fuels
• 100,000 cycle tested. Extensive test data available
• Minimum draw - 12VDC when fully energized
• Stocking 12 and 24 volt DC
• Optional wire connecting terminals
• OEM approved
• Easy installation - 1/8” female pipe threads, inlet and outlet
• Ambient Temperature rating -40°F to +250°F,
or 170° Fluid
• Heavy duty construction, corrosion resistant — solid brass and plated steel
• Rated for use with fuel, air and other media
• All valves are date coded
• Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown
• One year warranty



Item# 79-AFC11112
12 Volt Multi Fuel Shut Off Valve

Engineered for use in automotive, diesel, industrial, temperature and dispensing control applications.

Features and Specifications: Rated working pressure 0-30 PSI. 2-way normally closed inline solenoid. Orifice size .156" for adequate flow of all fuels. 100,000 cycle tested. Extensive test data available. Minimum draw - only .75 amp, 12 VDC when fully energized. OEM approved. Easy installation - 1/8" female pipe threads, inlet and outlet. Ambient temperature rating -40°F to +250°F, or 170° Fluid. Heavy duty construction, corrosion resistant - solid brass and plated steel. Rated for use with diesel fuel, Gasoline, Propane, Natural Gas, air, and other media. All valves are date coded. Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown. Great for Diesel fuel auxillary Tanks. Safety Rated



Item# 79-AFC15212
12 Volt .100" Orifice Inline Filter Shut Off Valve
Engineered for small engine (RV & Marine) applications.

Features and Specifications: Rated working pressure, 312 PSI. 100,000 cycle tested. Lightweight, compact design features filter and shut-off valve in one unit. Mounts directly onto regulator inlet. High performance filteration capability with replaceable filter. Resin impregnated cellulose element rated at 40 micron nominal. Bonded ceramic magnet traps fine metallic particles. Ambient temp rating -40°F to +250°F. Rated for fuel, air, and other media. Orifice size .100". Superior quality construction, corrosion resistant - solid brass, plated steel, and anodized aluminum. All valves are date coded. Every unit 100% tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown. Easy installation - 1/4" male pipe outlet. Safety Rated


http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/valk99/Fuel%20Valve/?albumview=slideshow

[BonS]

The "orifice size" is not the hole through the fitting and has nothing to do with the fitting sizes but rather is an internal hole that is sealed by the electromagnetic plunger inside the valve body. The larger the orifice size the greater the spring force required to hold the valve closed against pressure. Because of the larger spring force the valve requires more current to hold the valve open when activated. Thus the general rule that the larger the orifice the greater the solenoid current. Also, the higher the pressure rating of the solenoid the greater the spring force and thus the greater the current requirement as well. The physical principal is Force = Pressure x Area. It's all about the balance of forces.

In the case of these two valves it appears that they used a smaller orifice in the Model 152 to help with achieving the 312 PSI max pressure rating versus the 130 psi for the Model 111. The body of the solenoid is often the same size but the internal windings can be varied to match the current requirements. (Actually there are a number of other physical changes that can be made to the winding geometries and bobbin core that also affect the magnetic forces created by the current.)

I measured my valve on the bike with a Fluke DVM, engine off, so it's only a sample of one. I changed only the rerouting of the power supply to the valve and the engine miss vanished. It only happened under hard acceleration and at high rpm. It's totally gone now.

After I last posted I found the filter specs listed for the separate filters, and if I had to do it over again I'd certainly buy the Model 152 as you did.

[F6BANGER]

I have had both installed without any issues.  I took off and sold the unfiltered valve to a guy I work with for his dune buggy when I upgraded to the filtered model.  I wish I had held onto it for a little bench testing but I did not anticipate the need.

Actually they appear to be identical solenoid operated valves based on visual inspection of each.  One with a filter and one without a filter and with different fittings on either end.  Each with a different part number.

The label on both valves states 1 amp max.  I am uncertain where you got the 1.25 amp rating from though.  (Maybe you can clarify that rating source)    The one without a filter has 1/8" NPT female fittings on both ends and the hole in the center is larger as result of the female fittings, 0.156" while the valve with a filter has a 1/4" NPT male fitting on the discharge and even though it thread size is larger the orifice in the center is smaller.   (Please take a look at the OTHER unfiltered valve on the dan marc and AFC web sites  Item# 79-AFC15112.  That valve also has male 1/4" NPT fittings, it has no filter, but due to the male fitting has an orifice that is also 0.100")



AFC Model 152     Inline Filter Shut-Off Valve
Engineered for use in automotive, industrial, and refrigeration applications.
Features and Specifications
• Rated working pressure, 312 PSI
• 100,000 cycle tested.
• Lightweight, compact design features filter and shut-off valve in one unit
• Mounts directly onto regulator inlet
• High performance filtration capability with replaceable filter
• Resin impregnated cellulose element rated at 40 micron nominal (20 available)
• Bonded ceramic magnet traps fine metallic particles
• Ambient Temperature rating -40°F to +250°F
• Stocking 12 and 24 volt DC
• Rated for use with fuel, air and other media
• Orifice size .110”
• Superior quality construction, corrosion resistant — solid brass, plated steel and anodized aluminum
• All valves are date coded
• Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown
• Easy installation — 1/4” male pipe outlet
• One year warranty

AFC Model 111     Multi-Fuel Shut-Off Valve
Engineered for use in automotive, industrial, temperature and dispensing control applications.
Features and Specifications
• Working pressure 0-130 PSI
• 2-way normally closed inline solenoid
• Orifice size .156” for adequate flow of all fuels
• 100,000 cycle tested. Extensive test data available
• Minimum draw - 12VDC when fully energized
• Stocking 12 and 24 volt DC
• Optional wire connecting terminals
• OEM approved
• Easy installation - 1/8” female pipe threads, inlet and outlet
• Ambient Temperature rating -40°F to +250°F,
or 170° Fluid
• Heavy duty construction, corrosion resistant — solid brass and plated steel
• Rated for use with fuel, air and other media
• All valves are date coded
• Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown
• One year warranty



Item# 79-AFC11112
12 Volt Multi Fuel Shut Off Valve

Engineered for use in automotive, diesel, industrial, temperature and dispensing control applications.

Features and Specifications: Rated working pressure 0-30 PSI. 2-way normally closed inline solenoid. Orifice size .156" for adequate flow of all fuels. 100,000 cycle tested. Extensive test data available. Minimum draw - only .75 amp, 12 VDC when fully energized. OEM approved. Easy installation - 1/8" female pipe threads, inlet and outlet. Ambient temperature rating -40°F to +250°F, or 170° Fluid. Heavy duty construction, corrosion resistant - solid brass and plated steel. Rated for use with diesel fuel, Gasoline, Propane, Natural Gas, air, and other media. All valves are date coded. Every unit 100% functionally tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown. Great for Diesel fuel auxillary Tanks. Safety Rated



Item# 79-AFC15212
12 Volt .100" Orifice Inline Filter Shut Off Valve
Engineered for small engine (RV & Marine) applications.

Features and Specifications: Rated working pressure, 312 PSI. 100,000 cycle tested. Lightweight, compact design features filter and shut-off valve in one unit. Mounts directly onto regulator inlet. High performance filteration capability with replaceable filter. Resin impregnated cellulose element rated at 40 micron nominal. Bonded ceramic magnet traps fine metallic particles. Ambient temp rating -40°F to +250°F. Rated for fuel, air, and other media. Orifice size .100". Superior quality construction, corrosion resistant - solid brass, plated steel, and anodized aluminum. All valves are date coded. Every unit 100% tested for low/high pressure leaks and dielectric breakdown. Easy installation - 1/4" male pipe outlet. Safety Rated


http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/valk99/Fuel%20Valve/?albumview=slideshow

Where do you get ambient temp 40 to 250 degrees temp?The pic shows 170 degrees max on both.

[98pacecar]

While unfiltered the shorter, #111 has the benefit of being able to be installed without,,,, removing the airbox... 




 

[indybobm]

How restrictive is the filter on the Dan Marc with the filter? Has this ever caused a problem with fuel flow?
Has anyone with the filtered version ever had to clean or replace the filter?

By the way, the Dan Marc valve is on sale. http://www.danmarcrvparts.com/12vomufushof.html

The website lists model #112 but the picture is a #111. I guess the difference is the male fitting on the output of the #112. Seems like that would add a little to the overall length after you put on the barbed fitting for the fuel line.

[MarkT]

I missed this thread before.

I have the 111 model and it's powered by the black/white wire off the kill switch through a relay set up as a latch.  That is the POWER of the relay is the bl/wh wire.  The relay is triggered by a hidden pushbutton with feedback to the trigger from the output through a diode.  It's a std 30amp 5 pin automotive relay. The bl/wh off the kill sw shows on the schematic as the same circuit at the coils and ECM input (I forget pin#). I would have thought it makes no difference where that circuit is tapped but maybe not.  I tapped it at the connector that goes to the kill sw in the headlight bucket.  I have no miss or other ignition problems. I realize both your example and mine are statistically insignificant as a single example.  Can't explain why you have a problem & I didn't.  Though others have reported the same as me.

This is the relay schematic by you (BonS).

[Flrider]

I missed this thread before.

I have the 111 model and it's powered by the black/white wire off the kill switch through a relay set up as a latch.  That is the POWER of the relay is the bl/wh wire.  The relay is triggered by a hidden pushbutton with feedback to the trigger from the output through a diode.  It's a std 30amp 5 pin automotive relay. The bl/wh off the kill sw shows on the schematic as the same circuit at the coils and ECM input (I forget pin#). I would have thought it makes no difference where that circuit is tapped but maybe not.  I tapped it at the connector that goes to the kill sw in the headlight bucket.  I have no miss or other ignition problems. I realize both your example and mine are statistically insignificant as a single example.  Can't explain why you have a problem & I didn't.  Though others have reported the same as me.

This is the relay schematic by you (BonS).

I followed Mark's advise and have been running it that way for the last 3 months with no problem 

[R J]

Mine is wired like MarkT has his.

I had no problems when MGM was a 2wheeler, and since it has been converted to a Trike it still supplies all the fuel the old boy wants.

Just before I put him and his coherts to bed for the winter,  a friend of my son has a Texas Chopper he wanted to run MGM with.    He kept bragging that he'd kick it's ass in every gear to top end and then walk off and leave him.

I asked him how much head start he needed in a 1/4 mile.   Pessed him off, and said I'll run your ass straight out.

So we went out to a deserted hunk of pavement that goes no where, it was laid by mistake a mile from where it was supposed to be, and the County left it.  It is 1 & 1/2 miles long.    We went to the end turned around and was flagged off.  I went from 1 to 2, and pulled him a little, hit 3rd and pulled a little, hit 4th and we were running together, finally I shifted into 5th and walked all over his Chopper, as he was all the way out at about dollar and a nickel.

That pessed him off more.   He never stopped, he just headed for home.   Son called him and all he could say was, he had to of had Nitrous on that thing.   Son said no Rich, you just got your ass kicked by a stock Valkyrie Trike.   He used to be at the shop everyday as he worked nights.    Rex said he hasn't seen him since the race.

I been thinking about calling him and asking if he wants to inspect for NOS and a rerun.     I'll lay ya 10 to 1 he will really feel bad, as in every gear, I shifted with him and never wound MGM to his peak in each gear.   If we go a 2nd time, I'll put MGM to full potential and wave bye bye as I'm headed down the road.

[lljjmm]

Where do you get replacement filters for the Danmarc #152 valve?

[Chaosandconfusion]

Wow, there a lot of information in this thread.  I have been thinking of upgrade the petcock until I read about the solenoid solution.
I turn the petcock off at night but don’t always remember to turn it back on in the morning.  Sometimes it will run ruff and cut out and sometimes it just runs.  So that worries me.   I am going to get the parts together so that I can work on it asap. 
It looks like I should buy the Dan-Marc 12 Volt .100" Orifice Inline Filter Shut Off Valve Item# 79-AFC15212.  It would be helpful if you could list the rest of the parts I would need to complete the job. 
I was also going to install a Pingel fuel value, the chart on the webpage list 1311-CH as the one to use.   Would a fuel filtered be recommended to include in the line?
I will go back and read all the relevant posting about how to wire up the solenoid, but any tips, tricks or help would be appreciated.

[deadwood]

To install mine I used:

About 2 feet of 5/16" ID fuel line from Autozone if you don't want to cut and reuse the old stuff.
3 each brass male 1/4" pipe thread to 5/16" ID hose barbs. Got them at Autozone also.
1 each 1/4" pipe thread female T fitting. Got at Lowes in the plumbing section.
Your preferred electrical connectors and thread sealant, if any.
5 hose clamps sized for the OD of the above mentioned fuel line

One barb goes on the inlet side of the valve (where it connects to the fuel line to your tank)
The t goes on the other end on the fitting that comes with the valve.
The two other barbs go into the other two ports of the t and connect to short fuel lines that go to your carb rails.

Once you are in there it will all be obvious

While you are there think about doing the desmog and a installing a new 5/32" ID vacuum line from the petcock to the #6 inlet runner, unless you go to a Pingle.
Also some Viton inlet O-rings and some new plugs for the other intake runners, all available from Red-Eye.
Enjoy.

[lljjmm]

What does the filter look like on the Danmarc 152?
Is it replaceable or cleanable?

Would like to know before purchasing one

[The emperor has no clothes]

What does the filter look like on the Danmarc 152?
Is it replaceable or cleanable?

Would like to know before purchasing one

It looks to be replaceable , they have the filter for sale on their site.

[lljjmm]

Found  the relacement filter/magnet  gizmo for the Danmarc #152 fuel valve
http://store.dan-marcrvparts.com/infiwima.html

However the set up cost as much as the valve combo, and it includes the magnet portion but it still states there is a cleanable/replaceable element.

I have not been able to locate just the element, does anybody know where it is to be found?

[Misfit]

Personally I would steer clear of a fuel filter. You already have one in your tank. There is a good chance that you will be starving your motor under wide open throttle. Your carbs are gravity fed and these girls get real thirsty under a heavy load. Skip the filter and go with the dan-Marc. 

[Chaosandconfusion]

I now have all the parts I need to add the solenoid, but I am a little confused about the wiring. 

I see in the above wiring diagram there is a kill switch; I don’t need one of those.  I was hoping that I could just connect the positive end of the solenoid to the headlamp or another spot that doesn’t have power when I turn off the bike.

If I do use the headlamp is their going to be a problem with the voltage or amount of amp the solenoid receives?   I believe our bikes run on 12vlt 6 amps, if that is true will that burn out the solenoid?

[michaelyoung254]

this is the I used this valve I used on mine along with a Golan filter. http://www.danmarcrvparts.com/12vo1ormupus2.html

While I'm not sure exactly how fast she'll actually go because I usually chicken out about 115 or so, but I can say that with this combination, she'll run at least 115, with more to go. So far, I've never had any problems with starving for fuel.

[Gavin_Sons]

I just ordered a dan marc solenoid for my bike. Im planning on using the auxiliary power that is behind the right side cover. Im going to add a relay with a power distribution block to run the solenoid, led lights, usb plug, and the amplifier for my stereo.  You might not want to put it on the headlight circuit because the light turns off when cranking to start and may or may not have a fuel starvation problem. More than likely there will be plenty of fuel in the carbs to start but thats something I dont want to risk.

[PhredValk]

A hidden switch is also desirable; under the seat or the like. You can turn the fuel off when parked to help prevent theft, and you can turn it off while the power is on when using the Aux key setting for music or testing other installs or add-ons. It would do the same thing as MarkT's wiring without having to remember to use it every time.
Fred.

[MarkT]

A hidden switch is also desirable; under the seat or the like. You can turn the fuel off when parked to help prevent theft, and you can turn it off while the power is on when using the Aux key setting for music or testing other installs or add-ons. It would do the same thing as MarkT's wiring without having to remember to use it every time.
Fred.

Well,  not really.  The way I wired it makes the default w/o hitting a sw, the fuel is off even if the ignition is on.  And it goes off with the ignition switched off, or the kill sw at engine off, or if the bike is tipped over.  You have to activate the fuel latch relay by pressing the momentary pushbutton sw after turning the key, and it doesn't take long for that to be automatic - reflex move.  The "latch" means once activated by a tap of the hidden pushbutton, it remains activated until one of the shutoff events above happens.  Wire in an LED per the diagram, and you can see at a glance if there's power to the DanMarc.  If you forget and leave the key in the ignition, or if a thief jumpers it, or a perp hijacks your bike with or without a weapon so you hit the kill sw before handing it over - the bike will die in about a mile.  If you crash or otherwise tip the bike over, the fuel is off, not feeding gas into a fire.

[PhredValk]

You're right, Mark, turning off under multiple conditions makes lots more sense.
Fred.

[rekit]

I've posted elsewhere-RVPARTS.COM is quite a bit cheaper for the same parts. Also, best not to use the filtered version.Not enough flow-not because of the filter, but because of the design of the part that feeds the filter. The holes seem too small.