Question for Darksiders

[Michvalk]

How stable is your ride above 90 mph? I have about 3000 miles on mine and after 90 wants to do a little sashay in the rear that develops into quite a ride experience.  Not a headshake, more like an a**shake. Scarey! 99 Interstate with about 30,000 miles. New rear bearings, Avon Cobra front, No looseness in the swingarm that I can find. Any info would be appreciated. OH, by the way, I have a Cooper CS4 Touring tire, 42 lbs. I have since found out it is a non-directional tire. Rides good otherwise. Like the cornering, but , does give me a slidey kind of feel when gettin on it in a curve. Not slipping and not burning rubber. Can't really describe it as I have no other comparison. Thanks in advance for our knowledge.

[big turkey]

My Harley does that at about 87 mph in a tight Interstate Curve.

Answer

Don't do that.

Big Al

[Michvalk]

No Kidding. Pucker factor 12. Permanent seat damage

[MP]

I have had two bikes with two different ct's up into the 110's with no problem.  Bikes still speeding up, but I quit!  One an IS, one a standard.

MP

[Daniel Meyer]

135 indicated...steady as a rock. Goodyear TT, avon front. 2001 Standard. Lots 'O miles.

[Jabba]

My standard is rock solid FAST.  125 MPH indicated.

The IS does exactly what you describe.  I attribute it to the fairing.  It did it with the MC tire too

Jabba

[Challenger]

I have had that scary a$$ wobble twice, both at 32 psi above 90 mph. I posted this on the board and no one had experienced it or heard of it. If I go up to 36 psi It is rock solid to top end, Don't know if it is certain tires or what, But it has happened on both of my bikes (STD & I/S) GY TT

[R J]

I recommend 36# pressure.

A buddy of mine, works for Big 'O' tire, told me the Cooper tire had a softer sidewall.   I have no idea if he is correct or not.

I'm running a GY TT, rock solid to top end.

[sugerbear]

110 indicated 2k I/S, michelin hydroedge 41-42 lbs, steady as a rock. cobra on the front(soon to be dumped)

is the slidey feel both, right, or left turn?

if one and not the other i'd look at the tire.

[Tropic traveler]

Same tire as sugarbear. Same results, steady past 100mph with 38 psi.
Opposite tire going to be dumped, the Mich is soon to be gone & maybe an Avon in it's place.     It's the low speed handling that suckeths with the CT, that & the constant heading towards the ditches on the highly crowned roads here in Florida.
High speeds it feels as good as a motorcycle tire.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

My blue/white " BADMOJO " get's the shakes around 115 and it doesn't matter what rear or front tire is on it ( I've had several different...Avon Venom..Avon Cobra <---front )  ( Avon Cobra...Cooper Zeon 2XS ...Fuzion ZRi <---rear ). The bike has been down three times one of those was a pretty violent crash with previous owner...It has a re-built title. I have two other Valkyrie's and they are solid as a rock at all speeds...Both have Avon Cobra front's and Cooper Zeon 2XS rear's.

[bigdog99]

115 with a hankook. no wobbles.

[Michvalk]

Thanks for the quick answers everyone. Tire rides very smooth and does not exhibit any difference in turning right or left. Took a while for the tire to settle down at low speeds and gravel roads. I think I have it run in now, so maybe play with the tire pressure for a while before making any judgment. Met a few of you guys at Inzane, and wanted to meet a few more. I'll let you guys know what I find(if I do find anything). Thanks again

[RoadKill]

My experience only.  Higher tire pressure helped,but when changing to a different tire the 'trial and error' has to be tried again.  In my opinion the MC tire would sway slightly while grinding away the contact patch...dark side tire would not slip side to side causing a violent shake. Different DS tires had different tolerance but all would let you know ( in a scary way) when they were unhappy with the speed/tire pressure ratio !

[vanagon40]

A little over a year and a little over 5,000 miles later, my experience is still the same as posted in this thread (and below):  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,5645.0.html

I blame the high speed instability on the COMBINATION of the WIDER rear tire and more NARROW front tire.

This is my experience only.  I am satisfied.  I do NOT recommend this tire combination.

You may draw your own conclusions.

My old post:

Dag,

I have an Altimax HP 205/60/15 (H speed rated) with about 9,000 miles.  Here is the deal:

When I first installed the General at 9300 miles, I did not notice any high speed problems with my OEM Dunlop as the front tire (but, I'm not sure I ever rode over 90 mph).  I did notice counter steer.

When I installed a front tire Dunlop K491 Elite II MT90HB17 at 10400 miles, I noticed a little high speed instability.  At the same time, I noticed a marked improvement in handling at lower speeds, including the elimination of counter steer.  I did not pay a lot of attention to the high speed instability as I do not normally ride at speeds in excess of 80 mph.

At about that same time, FLAJIM commented that he was also running the Dunlop K491 Elite II as a front tire and a Michelin car tire in the rear, and he was experiencing high speed instability.  I checked my bike, and sure enough, I was unstable at speeds over 85 mph indicated (probably 80 mph actual).  I figured that because I ride at speeds less than 85 mph 99.9% of the time, this was not an important factor to me.  FLAJIM has since reported that he believes his instability was due to low tire pressure.  He now states he has no instability at high speeds.  FLAJIM has a Michelin car tire for a rear tire.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that different combinations of front and rear tires will result in different handling.  I do not believe that you can state the Altimax handles as follows _______________ without qualifying the statement by describing the front tire.  And maybe the tire pressures make a difference.

Dag, I guess if I were you, I would try experimenting with different pressures and maybe a different tire in front before I wrote off the Altimax.  Then again, I would be satisfied so long as there was no problem under 80 mph.  Finally, as cheap as the Altimax is, maybe an entirely different combination is in order.

[Jabba]

I am not going to use another Altimax. 

I am NOT a Goodyear fan, so you can cross the TT off MY list.

I'll probably go Falken 912.  Or Hankook if I can find one.

Jabba

[bigdog99]

I am not going to use another Altimax. 

I am NOT a Goodyear fan, so you can cross the TT off MY list.

I'll probably go Falken 912.  Or Hankook if I can find one.

Jabba

good luck john on find one with a good tread. good looking any way. fudgie says he can find it but i cant.

[CajunRider]

100 mph more than once... no wobble. 

Once had a slight wobble under FULL throttle at about 120 (still accelerating pretty hard)... I shut it down at that time... didn't stay there long at all. 

Yokohama Avid H4S rear tire, ME880 front. 
(Avon Cobra being shipped in a few days... I'm interested to see how it handles.)

[Jabba]

good luck john on find one with a good tread. good looking any way. fudgie says he can find it but i cant.

Then I'll have Fudgie get me one...

 

Jabba

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I've put close to 50,000 miles on two GY TTs. I switched to them shortly after buying my valk and had never had it over 100 before the change. With the TTs I would get a wobble, head-shake, swim or whatever you want to call it starting about 105. It would get worse as I went faster and would get "way" worse when I closed the throttle. With a rider on the back it was rock solid to 115 or so which is as fast as I have tried it. I changed to progressive 440s and progressive springs in the forks. New wheel bearings all the way around and new headset bearings and it was still there. Same problem with the OEM front tire and with Avon Venom and Cobras.

Due to a problem my tire installer had which ruined the Altimax I bought I went back to a bike tire (Avon Cobra) just before my trip West. I've got around 7000 miles on it now and discovered on my trip that it is rock solid to 105 with no sign of a beginning head-shake. The cornering traction is definitely not as good with the Avon since I inadvertently slid it while on the gas turning several times right after I made the switch.

It may be too soon to say the TT was the problem with my high speed stability since I've only had it to 105 but it looks like that was it so far.

[vanagon40]

. . . With a rider on the back it was rock solid to 115 or so . . .

I do not believe my kidneys could stand the abuse if I pushed it to "115 or so" with my "rider on the back."  YMMV

[Daniel Meyer]

I do not believe my kidneys could stand the abuse if I pushed it to "115 or so" with my "rider on the back."  YMMV

Ah, yes...you have the "Carbon-based rev-limiter". 

[Michvalk]

I do not believe my kidneys could stand the abuse if I pushed it to "115 or so" with my "rider on the back."  YMMV

Ah, yes...you have the "Carbon-based rev-limiter". 

That's part of the reason for askin. My wife LIKES to go fast. And curvey

[Bob E.]

I'm running a General Altimax at about 36-38psi.  My problem is on the highway, I get a kind of a swim/wobble when leaned over in turns at 70+ mph.  Going straight or only slight turns, I have not encoutered any stability problems to 100mph or so.  Nor have I had this problem on smaller twisty roads.  But when leaned over for tighter high-speed sweeping turns like we tend to have here in western PA, if I hit any sort of bump (also common in western PA  ) that unsettles the bike, it starts this oscillating thing that doesn't really go away until I either slow down or come out of the turn and straighten back up.  I never had this problem with a motorcycle tire.  Plus, I just had my leaky Progressive 440's rebuilt so they are basically new and that didn't fix the problem.  So, while I'm enjoying the extended life out of the tire at half the cost, I'm probably going to buy a MC tire next time around.

[MP]

Drop the pressure to 28#, and give the same corner a try.  Helped for me, might for you.  Let us know.

MP

[Ramjet]

If I'm not mistaken, the Cooper CS4 is a 60k mile tire with deeper tread.  Could be the compound is firmer for higher mileage but less traction.

[Bob E.]

Drop the pressure to 28#, and give the same corner a try.  Helped for me, might for you.  Let us know.

MP

Actually, I had dropped the pressure to about 30psi and the wiggle was worse.  It was actually wiggling in the slower stuff at that point, so I raised the pressure back up past the 35psi I was running to about 38psi.

[Old Geezer Richard]

  Hey MichValk , just thinking , after mounting my C/T a Michelin Pilot 205-55-16 with an avon up front with 40lbs ........ on the straights no problem with two up running 38 lbs. but into the turns my bike felt like a pogo stick it wiggled into and out of the turns the turns , it did not feel like my bikes suspension was not in rythum or in unison .....  so I had asked Dag when he was here in Texas and he mentioned the front springs and the rear shocks might be worn ..... well believe it or not I switched to the I/S shocks at the highest setting and progressive springs up front with 20 wt fork oil and shazam for me that combo cured my wiggles in the turns , she handles like a dream .... now by myself the fastest I have been is 96 or 98 mph but my front end felt squirrely and lite so I shut it down, with the wifey we have cruised at 80 and 85 easy with out a problem matter of fact for me with two up the old bike handles lot better and smoother for us ...

[Sludge]

Ive been off the dial.  150ish indicated before I quit.  It was solid as a rock the whole way.  Yokohama Advan A048 in 205-55-16.

[mikeb]

mine wondered at hi speeds when new now it did settle down i did notice that with more weight on the seat it settled down but most the time shes on her own valk   please dont send her this post she has the crazy glue after she used it on me the last time  

[fudgie]

Rock solid the other day up to 95 mph 2-up fully loaded backs and luggage, one handed. Passed a pack of Hogs on SD 44. The batwing makes the bike more solid at high speeds. Noticed a huge differance from the oem shield.

[fudgie]

good luck john on find one with a good tread. good looking any way. fudgie says he can find it but i cant.

Then I'll have Fudgie get me one...

 

Jabba

What am I getting? To many Pabst tonight.  ???

[Michvalk]

We don't have any 90 MPH sweepers here. The tire give me problems going straight down the road, like when I pass or just load her up. Did not have this problem with the bike tire, saw 124 (gps) a couple of times with the bike tire. Guess i'll have to slow down until the CT weares out. (Mr. Frugal) Thanks again for all the responses. 

[therapist]

I'm running a General Altimax at about 36-38psi.  My problem is on the highway, I get a kind of a swim/wobble when leaned over in turns at 70+ mph.  Going straight or only slight turns, I have not encoutered any stability problems to 100mph or so.  Nor have I had this problem on smaller twisty roads.  But when leaned over for tighter high-speed sweeping turns like we tend to have here in western PA, if I hit any sort of bump (also common in western PA  ) that unsettles the bike, it starts this oscillating thing that doesn't really go away until I either slow down or come out of the turn and straighten back up.  I never had this problem with a motorcycle tire.  Plus, I just had my leaky Progressive 440's rebuilt so they are basically new and that didn't fix the problem.  So, while I'm enjoying the extended life out of the tire at half the cost, I'm probably going to buy a MC tire next time around. (quote)

I have said this many times, but I still see many CT owners lumping all car tires together.  That General you have on there is a touring tire, all weather.  Not sticky and it has a soft sidewall for comfort.  If you had a summer only, high perfomance (my Toyo has a speed rating of 168) rated tire, your results would be different. 

[valkmc]

I have said this many times, but I still see many CT owners lumping all car tires together.  That General you have on there is a touring tire, all weather.  Not sticky and it has a soft sidewall for comfort.  If you had a summer only, high perfomance (my Toyo has a speed rating of 168) rated tire, your results would be different. 
[/quote]

Same as bike tires, my valk had a wobble at  110 when I first got it. It was  new and had the orignal dunlop. I switched to bridgestone and the wobble was gone. I don't ride that fast ofton. When I put the Goodyear TT on I tried it again, 120 speedo no wobble. The only other tire I have tried on the rear was a Metzler, never had much confidence in it so I never took her up past 100 with it on. CT are like motorcycle tires in the fact that they are all different and perform different.

[Bob E.]

I have said this many times, but I still see many CT owners lumping all car tires together.  That General you have on there is a touring tire, all weather.  Not sticky and it has a soft sidewall for comfort.  If you had a summer only, high perfomance (my Toyo has a speed rating of 168) rated tire, your results would be different. 

You may be right, but from all the reading I had done prior to choosing the Altimax, I was under the impression that the Altimax was a good and highly popular tire.  It was right up there in numbers with the Goodyear Triple Tread as far as popularity.  As for performance, it appeared to be more agressive than the GYTT and certainly just plain looked better to me.  It also appeared to have a nearly identical tread pattern as the Cooper that SmokinJoe was using and liking at the time.