Peaceful Islam and sharia law - your opinion

[Skinhead]

I received an email that contained a video claiming to be the stoning to death of a 15 year old girl that refused to marry a 50 year old man in a wedding arranged by her family.  It is very graphic, so I am reluctant to post it, especially since I don't know that it is authentic.  I tried to snopes it, but nothing came up in the search about it, (it's funny how that happens all the time).

I question the veracity of the video because it shows more kicking and stomping than stoning of a girl laying on the ground, and you don't really get a good look at the "spectators" and the executioner.

I am in no way supportive of this religion and it's allegedly peaceful people, but I want to be factual. 

Has any one else seen it?  Your opinion?

If you would like to see it, reply to me by email and I will send it to you.  It is very graphic and sad to say the least, but I really think people should know what these people are capable of.  The tolerance preachers would have a hard time justifying this, and if it is true, you need to see it.

BTW, I think Snopes sucks. 

[Sludge]

I dont know of this specific claim, but I do know from credible sources BBC, Amnesty International, etc.. of others that have occurred under similar circumstances as you described.

Its funny how our media cherry picks around this stuff so as not to upset the delicate sensibilities of the muslem community, and yet takes any opportunity to belittle law abiding, passive Christians or Jews.

Oh yea and Snopes does have a definite slant to it, but it is still somewhat useful at times, but you have to use it while being cognizant of the political leanings of the authors.

[Westernbiker]

I recieved it also and only sent it along to one person in my email list, it is very very graphic, it will surely upset many. I also tried to snopes it with no luck. I will say it looks as real as anything I have ever seen. Not sure of why they do this to this woman but what they do is real looking to me. Now with that said, I would like a shot at each one of them alone in a round room!

[Chrisj CMA]

Islam is not a religion, and in my opinion should not be allowed to flourish here in the US under the guise that it is.  I have no problem with a Mosque where they can go and pray being built here.  THat is "religious worship" and should be protected.  However, the social changes that these people demand, special facilities, laws to be changed or not inforced to cater to sharia requirements....NO go home if you cant assimilate! 

I further feel that anyone here from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia without valid paperwork needs to be actively rounded up and detained or sent home.  If the Visa is expired so is the welcome....go home.

[Robert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYpuXpbf0jg[url=http://

Savage And Bloodthirsty Stoning Of 15yr Old Girl.	powered by Aeva

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1315408/Taliban-militants-allegedly-stoning-woman-death-Pakistan.html?ito=feeds-newsxml[/url]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/ihavearightto/four_b/casestudy_art07.shtml

There is much more all you have to do is look

[Willow]

A problem with an opinion on "peaceful Islam" is that Islam is not monolithic.  That is to say there's no single spokesman or single group that in today's world defines what Islam is or isn't.  We can react to the experiences we have with the muslims we encounter and we can deduce what we will from writings in the Koran, but what escapes us the ability to make blanket statements regarding Islam.  We simply cannot say, "All muslims are ________" (you fill in the blank).  We're sort of limited in our opinions to being able to say that our knowlege or our experience leads us to believe that most muslims seem to or that the muslims we've encoutered seem to behave or believe in such and such a manner. 

Come to think of it, we're limited in the same way for those who claim to be Christians or Jews.

Members of many religions, it seems, are greatly varied in their devotion to their religion, their interpretation of their religion, and even in their acceptance of others who claim to practice their religion.

I think it's wrong to stone a fifteen year old girl.  I think distributing a video of Muslims doing that and applying it univeresally makes as much sense as does distributing a video of the beating of Rodney King and claiming, "This is what Americans do."

That's my opinion.  It's worth what you paid for it.
 

[Bobbo]

I agree with Willow.  

Some people are extremely violent and controlling.  They use many justifications for their actions.  Religious beliefs are quite often one of them.  History is rife with violence rooted in religious interpretations, and not one can be singled out as worst than the other.  Like the gun argument, the religion isn’t the problem; it’s the kook using the religion as a weapon that is the problem.  

[Bobbo]

However, the social changes that these people demand, special facilities, laws to be changed or not inforced to cater to sharia requirements....NO go home if you cant assimilate! 

That should apply to ALL religious demands.

[12voltclothing]

Why all the off topic postings? Isn't this a motorcycle board???

[Bobbo]

Why all the off topic postings? Isn't this a motorcycle board???

This is the General board.  We talk about everything here, motorcycles included.

[Skinhead]

Why all the off topic postings? Isn't this a motorcycle board???

Yes this is a motorcycle board, with a tech board and a general board.  I happen to value the opinions of many people on this board, wether or not I agree with them is another matter.  That said, there are many disturbing things happening in our country today, and I'd like to know what some of what I consider a diverse and fairly informed group thinks about it.  That is why I try to clearly state the subject of my posts, if you are strictly a motorcyclist, only open the ones with motorcycle in the subject line.  If you share my belief that this board can be a valuable source of information on a variety of subjects, open any that may interest you.  Please don't restrict the rest of us from discussing things non-motorcycle, instead just don't open those that don't interest you.

[big turkey]

If I ride to a BBQ Joint with a Muslim and he won't eat it, Then AL's Law is the Muslim must

pay for mine.

All Muslims will now be required to ride Hogs because it offends me when they ride other bikes.

If they speak against the Religion of AL , then they are Infidels and will be BB Gunned to death.

Hey this is my religion and they must respect me or else.

Oh yeah sounds crazy but that is the kind of respect they require or else they bomb your arse.

AL

[DIGGER]

If I ride to a BBQ Joint with a Muslim and he won't eat it, Then AL's Law is the Muslim must

pay for mine.

All Muslims will now be required to ride Hogs because it offends me when they ride other bikes.

If they speak against the Religion of AL , then they are Infidels and will be BB Gunned to death.

Hey this is my religion and they must respect me or else.

Oh yeah sounds crazy but that is the kind of respect they require or else they bomb your arse.


I am appaled at all my friends who are so opposed to the Religious building near ground zero.  To show our tolerance, we should let them build.  Then right across the street put in a Bar named “YOU MECCA  ME HOT”.

 

Next to that should be a gay bar “THE TURBAN COWBOY”

 

And next door to the Religious building we should build  a pork rib establishment named “IRAQ OF RIBS” 

 

Then the Middle Easterners could be allowed to show their tolerance.


AL

[DIGGER]

http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnPlayer.swf?aid=11991

[Skinhead]

Thank you all for your replies and opinions.  The video I received was a clearer version of the last video from CNN in Roberts post above.  It was obviously shot with a cell phone, and I have no doubt that it is real, I just didn't know if it was accurately represented or some other act of brutality used to generate anti-muslim sentiment.

After reading your replies, and seeing some of the other information and videos, all I can say is I am appalled and can not believe that the peaceful muslims aren't doing more to stop this behavior.  I guess the media is too busy reporting on Paris H and Linsey L to do followup on these stories.  I'd like to know how the girls cousins fare if they violated Sharia law or her rights by stoning her to death unjustly.  (I can't believe I wrote "stoning to death unjustly")

[czuch]

Zoos and museums.
I dont know if its true or not either. I really dont care. I hope its made up but I doubt it.
 Any cognizant person knows what goes on. Too many
I'd like to think that 4th century was at least a little more civilized than these animals.
 I guess the bright side is that the family still has their honor.

[fstsix]

Seen the Video last month..One of the most Influential Liberals i know had sent it to Me...I have a picture of this liberal in a Family portrait with Jerry Brown with her and her family in the picture..She is 73 years young and Had owned one of the largest Entertainment Agency's in So,California, SAGA musician and raised Her Family from a folk band income in the 60's.....I talk to her at least once a week,  And She Voted for Obama Hands down...This woman had a conversation with her daughter a Hollywood Song writer and Actress about this Video, and i was shocked when this Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Woman's Rights Activist told her 45 year old daughter, That this  Stoning is Law in that Country and last she knew It BETTER NEVER BECOME LAW HERE !!!! just keep giving this religion Shelter and special privilege and your worst nightmare will come true! Also a Christian that does not know Jesus Christ or a Back sliddin Christian is worse than a unbeliever because he does Not follow his Book....A Muslim in reverse is just the Opposite if he Followed his book he would want to please his GOD, be grateful that like most Christians.... They also don't understand their book.......YET.....Just Like any Sinner Jesus Love's the Muslim Person but hates the sin of their Religion..just like he Love's the Liberal but Not the liberal Religion.

[valkmc]

Islam is like many religions, messed up. However there are extremist in every religion and the history of every religion will  provide examples of how not to treat those who do not agree with you and your kind. I think George Bush had it right after 9/11 when he said many times, We are not fighting Islam we are fighting evil. Now, how can a religion exist when their people do not eat Bar B Q (pulled pork). Maybe I could convert some of them if they came to my house and I smoked up a couple of Boston Butts.

[Skinhead]

Islam is like many religions, messed up. However there are extremist in every religion and the history of every religion will  provide examples of how not to treat those who do not agree with you and your kind. I think George Bush had it right after 9/11 when he said many times, We are not fighting Islam we are fighting evil. Now, how can a religion exist when their people do not eat Bar B Q (pulled pork). Maybe I could convert some of them if they came to my house and I smoked up a couple of Boston Butts.

I'm in, let me know when you get that smoker fired up!

[fudgie]

I saw it a few days ago.  I didnt forward it on. I say let them do what they want in their own country, but when you come to mine, you follow our laws.  Dont like it, get out. 

[3fan4life]

i was shocked when this Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Woman's Rights Activist told her 45 year old daughter, That this  Stoning is Law in that Country and last she knew It BETTER NEVER BECOME LAW HERE !!!!

You have given me a WONDERFUL idea........... Let's get Jane Fonda to go to the middle east to demonstrate for WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

I'm sure that many Vietnam vets would like to see the video of what happens to old "Hanoi Jane" then.      

[fstsix]

i was shocked when this Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Woman's Rights Activist told her 45 year old daughter, That this  Stoning is Law in that Country and last she knew It BETTER NEVER BECOME LAW HERE !!!!

You have given me a WONDERFUL idea........... Let's get Jane Fonda to go to the middle east to demonstrate for WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

I'm sure that many Vietnam vets would like to see the video of what happens to old "Hanoi Jane" then.      

You got it Bro!!...i always put a little bait in these just to get the Libs going    But it is Amazing the Woman's rights groups have all but ignored the treatment of Woman have not spoken out?....but wait? this Lady i spoke of up on my post gets the Picture...maybe their is hope

[valkmc]

I once saw a video of a stoning in Saudi Arabia, they buried the individual to his neck, his head was the only thing exposed and then threw rocks at him until his head split open. It was quite gross.

[Bobbo]

Now, how can a religion exist when their people do not eat Bar B Q (pulled pork). Maybe I could convert some of them if they came to my house and I smoked up a couple of Boston Butts.

Maybe some of our Jewish members can respond to this?

[Oss]

Never heard that Jesus ate pulled pork  but I know he had Passover seder with 12 friends some of whom were possibly not jewish

I choose not to eat pork or shellfish because I can.

My wife eats everything because she can

IMHO I doubt that Jesus would care if you ate pulled pork but I do believe he would care how you treat your fellow man and woman.

And I sure hope he would ride a Valkyrie if they had them, but the stately black and pearl beige ones

[Chattanooga Mark]

The standard of any religion or group is their written law.

Christian - The Bible, along with a concordance so you know what it means. Not what some pastor, priest or minister says it means. What did the writers actually say and write.

Jews - The Tora, the first five books of the Bible written by Moses

Islam - The Koran, again you need to learn what it really says. The later writings supercede the earlier ones. You may want to learn the origins of Islam from around 600 AD.

Mormons - The Book of Mormon

USA - The Bill of Rights, The Constitution, Federalist Papers, writings from the founding fathers etc.

Etc, etc, etc.

     Most people tend to go by there own set of rules. Sometimes taken from several texts and thereby are in reality creating their own system and actually deeming themselves god.

Mark
There is a way which seems right to a man but its end is death.

[valkmc]

Now, how can a religion exist when their people do not eat Bar B Q (pulled pork). Maybe I could convert some of them if they came to my house and I smoked up a couple of Boston Butts.

Maybe some of our Jewish members can respond to this?

It was meant to be light hearted, I suppose it was also meant to take a poke at religion as a whole. Not meant to offend any of the Jewish people who visit the board.  I happen to like pork and beer and motorcycles. Oh I also like women, I hope I won't burn in ...........

[ricoman]

I too, have seen the video.
The one thing that stays with me after seeing it, is that the victim did not one time try to defend herself. Think about that.
There was one observer who covered the exposed backside of the victim (once for sure, maybe twice). I cannot comprehend that seeing a woman's rearend is worse than watching the treatment she recieved, yet doing nothing to end it.

I, like Skinhead, am "appalled" at the lack of response from the media.

I am, however, more appalled at the lack of response from the "moderate Muslims". There is ocassional token disagreement from some. It is not and has not been strong enough and often enough for me to believe there is a "moderate Muslim". All we have seen is lip service.
Is this non-response based on fear of retribution or based on agreement?
How do you explain an assasination plan developed to kill an author (Rushdi) for his writings that should have caused introspection?
These are a people to be feared and not taken lightly.

By the way, Chicago Mark-who do you think writes the "concordance" you refer to? I bet it was a "pastor', "priest', or "minister". I haven't yet seen a "concordance" that was devinely inspired.

[Willow]

The standard of any religion or group is their written law.

Christian - The Bible, along with a concordance so you know what it means. Not what some pastor, priest or minister says it means. What did the writers actually say and write.

Jews - The Tora, the first five books of the Bible written by Moses

Islam - The Koran, again you need to learn what it really says. The later writings supercede the earlier ones. You may want to learn the origins of Islam from around 600 AD.

Mormons - The Book of Mormon

Mark, I don't mean to be unreasonably argumentative, but you seem to have a very narrow view and be coming from a relatively uninformed base.

The Torah is only a portion of the Jewish Scriptures.

The Book of Mormon also is only one of the holy books of the Latter Day Saints.  (reference The Pearl of Great Price, The Doctine and Covenants, and the Bible)

The Koran was actually put together after the death of the Prophet.  The Prophet himself was illiterate.

The Christian Bible proclaims,  "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"  which sort of argues against the fragment, "Not what some pastor, priest or minister says it means."

A concordance, incidentally, is only a cross referencing tool.  It doesn't really explain what the Bible means on any particular subject.

Actually all the religions mentioned began in oral tradition before their scriptures were written which mitigates against your introductory claim.

My viewpoint is that in many cases what's written down by or for a group attempts to define what that group already is.

Of course, I could be wrong, too.

[Robert]

There is one difference Islam has with the rest of the religions, Muslims actively endorse their followers to kill, lie, disrespect, and generally hate anyone that opposes or is not a Muslim. That in order to achieve their goal it is OK to do anything to infidels which by the way is you and me. Many groups are either watched by the government, banned or called subversives for teaching pretty much the same ideas. KKK and white supremists teach their own laws of hate but is it so far from the Koran. Many would never dream of hurting anyone but what about ideals being taught. Now just because you dont follow what is taught doesn't change the fact that it is taught. I'm sure there are suicide bombers that decided that those virgins weren't worth dying for and bailed while going through the training. There are peaceful parts of the Koran but it is all superseded by the book known as the sword which is the latest and makes null and void all previous teachings. I have asked this question time and again if you follow a religion why dont you know what the manual on that religion says and do it? If you dont are you a follower of that religion or are you   one in name only. I say this of all religions. Personally I know not all Muslims are bad , but with that said how can I trust someone who pledges a life to a particular religion and then doesn't follow it or distorts their own teachings. It doesn't speak well of anyone like this. Plus there is the added layer of is the person lying as taught that its good to do by their own religion. 

[Robert]

 Here is the head Muslim (Mohammad) relating stories in the Bible and clarifying what will happen to unbelievers

Those who disbelieve will be driven to Hell in companies and when they arrive there and its gates are opened its custodians will say to them, 'Did Messengers from yourselves not come to you, reciting your Lord's Signs to you and warning you of the meeting on this Day of yours?' They will say, 'Indeed they did, but the decree of punishment is justly carried out against the disbelievers.' They will be told, 'Enter the gates of Hell and stay there timelessly, for ever. How evil is the abode of the arrogant!' (Surat az-Zumar, 71-72)

They will call out, 'Master, let your Lord put an end to us!' He will say, 'You will stay the way you are.' We brought you the truth but most of you hated the truth. (Surat Zukhruf, 77-78)
 

 This is a chilling quote from the Koran and it talks of The Book (the Bible) If you notice it says YOUR LORD referring to Jesus or God. Not the Muslims Mohamed. Previous passages also talk of Micheal the Arc Angel how much of a coincidence is that well maybe not so much of a coincidence. Why read a book that basis itself on another book? The Bible never mentions the Koran just tells you the people that started it and why. After reading parts of the Koran it made me love the Bible all that much more. How great is our God.

Luk 16:27  "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--
Luk 16:28  for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29  "But Abraham *said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30  "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'
Luk 16:31  "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

2Co 4:4  in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Joh 1:11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.

Joh 8:32  and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Joh 14:6  Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

[x]

As usual, you are way off base, and broad brush the peaceful majority with your false smears.
 
I live in Asia... Singapore to be exact.  All around me is Indonesia... with about 200 million Muslims.  They don't lie, kill, hate, disrespect... unlike you.  They live peaceful lives.  Same for Malaysia... predominantly Muslim... millions of them... and guess what?  They don't lie, hate, kill or disrespect, either.  In fact, the average joe on the street is very respectful.
 
Thus, I respectfully suggest that you are full of sh*t, and are an ignoramus on the subject of which you would deem to speak as an expert.  But, I've noticed... facts are not your forte, are they?

All in all, I have lot less trust in American "Christians" who would toss the Constitution out the window for short term gain, and who would think of nothing less than pushing their religious dogma on others.

Come on out to Asia some time... you've got a place to stay... and you might learn to not be so ignorant... at least not to wallow in your ignorance... like you are saying something useful.

There is one difference Islam has with the rest of the religions, Muslims actively endorse their followers to kill, lie, disrespect, and generally hate anyone that opposes or is not a Muslim. That in order to achieve their goal it is OK to do anything to infidels which by the way is you and me. Many groups are either watched by the government, banned or called subversives for teaching pretty much the same ideas. KKK and white supremists teach their own laws of hate but is it so far from the Koran. Many would never dream of hurting anyone but what about ideals being taught. Now just because you dont follow what is taught doesn't change the fact that it is taught. I'm sure there are suicide bombers that decided that those virgins weren't worth dying for and bailed while going through the training. There are peaceful parts of the Koran but it is all superseded by the book known as the sword which is the latest and makes null and void all previous teachings. I have asked this question time and again if you follow a religion why dont you know what the manual on that religion says and do it? If you dont are you a follower of that religion or are you   one in name only. I say this of all religions. Personally I know not all Muslims are bad , but with that said how can I trust someone who pledges a life to a particular religion and then doesn't follow it or distorts their own teachings. It doesn't speak well of anyone like this. Plus there is the added layer of is the person lying as taught that its good to do by their own religion. 

[Robert]

Eagle as usual you have not read all my posts I have said that all Muslims are not bad but I also said that the book they read endorses them to do these things. I also said why would you belong to a religion and not follow it or read exactly what it says to know whats expected of you. I say this about Christians,Muslims, Jews any religion. That if you dont follow the tenets of that religion are you really of that religion. We do have a common point and no its not that I am a ignoramus but that people who call themselves Christians and dont do what is talked about in the Bible goes back to are they really Christians. The Bible says they will take a form of religion which is what is happening now.  Id say that according to the Lords standards many who call themselves Christians will be hearing these words

Mat 7:21  "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22  "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23  "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Mat 7:24  "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Mat 7:25  "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26  "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
Mat 7:27  "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

If you notice Eagle it says cast out demons Prophesy so that they did indeed know what Jesus taught. But I came to the Bible because it explains the differences in religon and how it started it tells what will happen and that the wars in the Mid East will never ceease. I came to know that the Bible tells the future and is accurate which no other book does. Its only one of the confirming things about Jesus and God that keeps me interested. I am sorry if I have offended you about your friends religons I agree there are some very good Muslims, some I personally would hate to see anything happen to. But this is not only about a earthly realm but a eternal one too with consequences not known by most in who call themselves religos. So I hope that will help a bit on my position. I have had some very bad experiences at the hands of those calling themselves Chritians but it really only showed me that the Love that Jesus had for people did not reside in their hearts.

Co 13:1  If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2  If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3  And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

So I get very upset over our current circumstances but I know who foretold what would happen and realize that there is a bigger picture than the players in the field

My trust my faith my hope and peace is not in the arm of man but on the promises of my Lord. Because in all He is, He has demonstrated to me His Love, Power and plans for my life are in His loving guiding hands and He does love me

[sugerbear]

ya know robert..............i'm not saying this to start another war, but,........................
if we put you and a devout muslim in the same room and locked the door, you two would die reciting each "book" and still there would be no winner.
so please give it a rest quoting your bible ok?

by the way i was raised in a southern baptist home, and still consider myself baptist.
 

and i will not respond to any remarks.

[Chattanooga Mark]

Nothing narrow minded about my veiw that each group can be studied and known by understanding their written doctrine. It's a good place to begin research isn't it? The origins of most world religions can be found, learned and studied. Once you study the origins, intent and purpose you can then examine implementation. OK, so I didn't list every book that could go with each religion. Guilty, but not narrow minded.

All religions are not the same and they don't all get the same end result. For me there's One God, One way and One Jesus. It doesn't matter to me what you think of that and I won't try to convince or force you to beleive as I do. Not all people or religions can say that can they?

All the best,

Mark

[Robert]

No response necessary sugar but I quote because I want all to know what is really said and not to say things on my authority nor do I want anyone to be misled. The Bible pretty much addresses all situations and some dont know that being Christians they are held to a higher standard. Also fear,doubt,greed and just not knowing who God is or what He says, they do things in the wrong way. With the damage being people hurt, Jesus and Christianity names  getting slandered and ultimately people saying the God of Christians is not good before they have a chance to really know Him. What poor examples most Christians are.

 As for being in the same room no problem you see you as so many Christians have no clue about the spiritual side of things.

1Co 2:4  and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5  so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
 
Baptists dont believe in the gifts of spirit so its all words no power nor results just dogma boring dead and lifeless. When someone gets close to the Lord there is never a fear of confrontation and not in a bad way either its actually very loving ,something Muslims dont have, but all people are made to seek. I have not heard to many that can quote the Koran much less the Bible. Plus I always love to see what the Lord will do. I can give many examples of how the Lord touched peoples lives through me the stories the healings the miracles. Jesus was our model and He said

Joh 14:12  "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
Joh 14:13  "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If there is no fruit in anyones life then the Lord doesn't dwell with them.
So you can see what I feel about not quoting and Im sorry you dont. If you dont like being reminded of what the Bible says maybe you need to think about your walk. I have been the one to say their just a Jesus freak and then the Lord got ahold of me and now I can say I know who He is.  Religon still stinks but a relationship is the way to go

[fstsix]

ya know robert..............i'm not saying this to start another war, but,........................
if we put you and a devout muslim in the same room and locked the door, you two would die reciting each "book" and still there would be no winner.
so please give it a rest quoting your bible ok?

by the way i was raised in a southern baptist home, and still consider myself baptist.
 

and i will not respond to any remarks.

No remark here just a question? This is exactly why i denounce Denominations, Without Baptism, Did the one thief next to Jesus on the cross go to Heaven when he asked Jesus to forgive him? And tell me Baptist Are you Born Again? What is the difference that makes you think you should Stop the Word of God ? Do us a favor and copy and paste this and send it to your Pastor and show us his Response Baptist!  NOT YOURS!!   

[NCGhostrider]

Opinions...all just opinions...    I agree with some, others not so much so.  I see SE's point, but fear that the black and white views of many of us here in the USA, do not match the black and white views of other countries or their residents...say Singapore.   Ignorance can be argued at many different levels, the basis of which is, once again...often an opinion.

In a world that desires peace, a like mind or at the minimum a common goal or even fear is needed.   We bicker and gripe at all levels, politics, Christianity, religion in general, cars...you name it.   One is always better than the other, in one's opinion.   

One problem currently, is that, we seem to continue have this underlying problem with various sects of Muslims that want to kill us or U.S. (cute huh?).   From my Christian standpoint (notice I said my), I have no problem dishing back what is delivered to us.  And yes, there are inherent problems with, even doing that.   And even arguments from other Christians.  I agree with Robert, we should know our religious manual, if we have one.   If we don't then, we should know whatever dogma, be it science or otherwise we do believe in.    I have read at a few of the "manuals", in fact, I have a library full of various things of that nature.  But, reading and understanding any one of them takes a lifetime, or at the least a lot of dedication.  And when it is all said and done, you will not change anyone’s mind based on fact, language studies, historical setting etc…if they do not want to hear.

We argue in our country about civil rights, better yet, human rights, or even animal rights, but turn our backs on women being stoned.  Have you ever seen someone die, while you were standing there? 

One argument comes to mind.  We have crazy Bible quoting Christians, those that are locked in ritual, with little understanding of scripture, and many that go to church on Easter and maybe Christmas to appease God.   Each of you have that choice, and you can argue benefits, downfalls of each… to NO END!  But within the Christian group, goofy as it is, and can be, perhaps even ignorant of their/our own manual, you can not point to one large group and say they are organized as terrorists.  The Baptists are not launching anything other than mission groups to various worldwide places; the same is true for Catholics, Anglicans, and Assembly of God etc.  Some are pushy, arrogant and downright annoying, but I have yet to hear of any of them carrying a body bomb to deliver or attain their goals.   Let me reiterate, some are really stupid….but that is their right, and though we argue about it, passionately at times, we are not warring with each other physically.

Where do I stand?  I am tired of one-sided politically correct media.  Politically correct people and ideas counter to the growth/solidarity of the USA.  I am a legal resident, a citizen with a family history of fighting for this country, the state I live in, its people and heritage.  If you were on the losing side of that, I apologize.  We may all share that same problem if we do not grow some backbone, voice our OPINIONS and protect the USA.  In protecting ourselves, we will be able to protect our allies.   

And before someone with a European centric socialistic viewpoint expresses the garbage of the USA being arrogant, domineering etc, you probably have the right to express that opinion because of a US soldier, US egocentric views and US willpower.   We are not a third world country because we are intelligent, have a strong drive to succeed and diversity!!!   

All of this, because I read a post and watched a disturbing video about someone being stoned and read a disparaging comment or two.  I either offended everyone or no one... and did my best to not single anyone out...

It’s just my OPINION.   I also like hamburgers, riding my motorcycle and the great state of Texas.   And I laughed when I read today that the U.N. has appointed a “first contact” representative for space aliens.    I guess an argument over Muslim ideology vs. Christian ideology isn’t so bad after all!!   

[Willow]

I also like hamburgers ... 

But what kind of hamburgers?  Hmmm?     

[NCGhostrider]

I also like hamburgers ... 

All of them, and I will fight to the death my right to die of obesity and high blood pressure!!      Especially if someone else is cooking!!!