Please look and pass on (important)

[Westernbiker]

I am posting this so you all can see what is happening and what we in Arizona are having to put up with. You will not see this on the news.
I have no words for this!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you?

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/azflag.asp

[Brad]

That is a disgrace, I am all for securing ALL of our borders!!  And if someone lost their brakes and drove through a demonstration like that....oh well.

[SANDMAN5]

Now, now, we can't jump to conclusions. Maybe they didn't SEE the U.S Flag
on the ground. Maybe they were told that was part of becoming a citizen.
Maybe they thought it was April Fools Day and it would be a big joke. Perhaps
they were just bored waiting in line for their FREE insurance and Social Security
check, food stamps, etc. Uncle Obama don't want us to hurt their feelings or
offend them in any way.

[Oss]

SO WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

Does someone buy a thousand Mexican flags only to deface them and fly them outside restrooms?

(sarcasm font applied)

The feds cant prosecute that one.

Its all so stupid that our own country seems to have an auto immune disease


I was happy to spend my vacation in Arizona this year and meet Westernbiker and pump my few cents into their economy Whether you agree with what Arizona is doing or not IMHO we all have an obligation to vote and make our ballot count this year.  Do what you think is right next week but please vote

[G-Man]

Its all so stupid that our own country seems to have an auto immune disease

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT ANALOGY   

[G-Man]

If these people are so pissed off a this country, why do they live here?  Why don't they just go there, instead of wanting to bring Mexico here?  I'm sure there's plenty of opportunity down there.  Housing is cheaper, etc.  I'm sure they'd be much happier and they'd be in a country where they could be patriots instead of rallying so distastefully and offensively against this country.

[Serk]

If these people are so pissed off a this country, why do they live here?  Why don't they just go there, instead of wanting to bring Mexico here?  I'm sure there's plenty of opportunity down there.  Housing is cheaper, etc.  I'm sure they'd be much happier and they'd be in a country where they could be patriots instead of rallying so distastefully and offensively against this country.

Because they've convinced themselves that we are the occupiers, and a good chunk of the US is occupied territory, they're fighting to return Aztlan to it's "rightful" ownership - their own...

(Google Aztlan to see what I'm talking about... They don't want citizenship in the US, they want to reclaim the western US as part of Mexico)

[Charlie]

If these people are so pissed off a this country, why do they live here?  Why don't they just go there, instead of wanting to bring Mexico here?  I'm sure there's plenty of opportunity down there.  Housing is cheaper, etc.  I'm sure they'd be much happier and they'd be in a country where they could be patriots instead of rallying so distastefully and offensively against this country.

GMan,
When I read your posts, I ask myself the same thing.....  If you are so angry with the way the country is run, why do you live here?  Of course I know you really like it here, but just like to rant.....

[G-Man]

If these people are so pissed off a this country, why do they live here?  Why don't they just go there, instead of wanting to bring Mexico here?  I'm sure there's plenty of opportunity down there.  Housing is cheaper, etc.  I'm sure they'd be much happier and they'd be in a country where they could be patriots instead of rallying so distastefully and offensively against this country.

GMan,
When I read your posts, I ask myself the same thing.....  If you are so angry with the way the country is run, why do you live here?  Of course I know you really like it here, but just like to rant.....

No, I don't like living here......I LOVE LIVING HERE!  I love living in the greatest country in the world.  I hold this country in the highest of esteem.  This country has done more to advance mankind, protect mankind, and help mankind than any other nation, past or present.  I don't have to agree with the agenda of this or any administration to love this country.  I'd consider living nowhere else.

These people, obviously, DON'T love this country and think it's evil, so why stay here? 

 Rant over.

[PAVALKER]

If the US Supreme Court struck down Public Law 101-131 (or Flag Protection Act of 1989), based on Freedom Of Expression (First Amendment).... then surely I should be protected under the same rules if I were to express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual.... freedom of expression with a symbol that is almost as American as Apple Pie).   Can I apply the same logic there.....

[Hef]

When I was an older teenager (re-phrase: cocky older teenager) I had a spat with my dad. He in no certain terms told me that I was living in his home and if I wanted to remain there I would abide by his rules or else I had to get out. I got the message and decided I liked where I was so I had to make some changes.  These people come into our home, spit in our face and we wrap our loving arms around them and take care of their every need. I know they are not all bad and I have no problem with those who respect our country and flag, but when I see them trampling our flag that so many of OUR people have given their lives for, it make me ill.

[Walküre]

then surely I should be protected under the same rules if I were to express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual.... freedom of expression with a symbol that is almost as American as Apple Pie).   Can I apply the same logic there.....

Uhhhmmmm...NO!

[PAVALKER]

then surely I should be protected under the same rules if I were to express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual.... freedom of expression with a symbol that is almost as American as Apple Pie).   Can I apply the same logic there.....

Uhhhmmmm...NO!

Why not?    I think we should get a lawyer to argue that.....

[Bobbo]

It seems that many replies to this post believe that these protesters are all illegal immigrants.  The linked-to Snopes article says, “it's quite likely that some (or even all) of the protesters responsible for the display of desecrated flags were actually U.S. citizens or legal residents, not illegal immigrants.”  By the way police were standing guard, it appears that this was a sanctioned protest. 

Dissent is an integral part of any free society.  Dissent doesn’t necessarily mean you “hate” this country, but you might disagree strongly with a policy or some other aspect.  I agree that flag desecration is quite extreme, but it is a protected form of free speech, as sited in an earlier post.

Stating the desire to murder someone over their protected political speech or actions is about as un-American as you can get.

[SANDMAN5]

"Quite likely" and "definitely" are two different things. As for me, I don't really
care if they were citizens or illegals, what they did was an insult to me and every
other veteran, living or dead. Not saying they don't have a right to protest (IF and
ONLY IF) they are citizens, but it's entirely possible to protest without being
a hemmorhoid.

[PAVALKER]

It seems that many replies to this post believe that these protesters are all illegal immigrants.  The linked-to Snopes article says, “it's quite likely that some (or even all) of the protesters responsible for the display of desecrated flags were actually U.S. citizens or legal residents, not illegal immigrants.”  By the way police were standing guard, it appears that this was a sanctioned protest.  

Dissent is an integral part of any free society.  Dissent doesn’t necessarily mean you “hate” this country, but you might disagree strongly with a policy or some other aspect.  I agree that flag desecration is quite extreme, but it is a protected form of free speech, as sited in an earlier post.

Stating the desire to murder someone over their protected political speech or actions is about as un-American as you can get.

Hopefully you didn't misread or misquote me.... I did not state a desire to murder someone over their protected political speech.  However, I did argue that I could use the same logic in arguing my "freedom of expression" in a manner of how I chose to "express myself".  Since the Supreme Court ruled to strike down a law against burning our flags based on "freedom of expression" then expressing myself with a bullet or baseball bat could be argued as well.  Why should my rights to express myself in a universal language/manner  (swinging a bat, throwing a rock, or firing a bullet) be violated  when their right to express themselves with fire/flames wasn't?   Playing devils advocate here obviously.....    If there is a "freedom of speech" or "expression" as it was worded, and a law against burning our countries flag was struck down as a result.... then why can't the same argument apply in other instances of "freedom of expression" ??


Oh and in case we need to rehash being American or UnAmerican .... I served 22 years in the service of this country, its constitution, and the citizens (lawful citizens mind you) and took an oath...  "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."    

And your background in supporting or "defending" the constitution is  ? ? ? ? ? ?

[Bobbo]

Hopefully you didn't misread or misquote me.... I did not state a desire to murder someone over their protected political speech.  However, I did argue that I could use the same logic in arguing my "freedom of expression" in a manner of how I chose to "express myself".  Since the Supreme Court ruled to strike down a law against burning our flags based on "freedom of expression" then expressing myself with a bullet or baseball bat could be argued as well.  Why should my rights to express myself in a universal language/manner  (swinging a bat, throwing a rock, or firing a bullet) be violated  when their right to express themselves with fire/flames wasn't?   Playing devils advocate here obviously.....    If there is a "freedom of speech" or "expression" as it was worded, and a law against burning our countries flag was struck down as a result.... then why can't the same argument apply in other instances of "freedom of expression" ??


Oh and in case we need to rehash being American or UnAmerican .... I served 22 years in the service of this country, its constitution, and the citizens (lawful citizens mind you) and took an oath...  "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."    

And your background in supporting or "defending" the constitution is  ? ? ? ? ? ?

Your analogy of flag desecration versus murder or assault is incorrect.  When a flag is abused during political or other protest, other’s rights aren’t infringed upon.  You do not have the right to be non-offended.  When you “express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual....” you are violating the other person’s right to life and limb, as guaranteed by law.

This concept should be obvious to someone who is chest-beating about spending 22 years defending our laws and Constitution.  If you need further guidance, you should consult an attorney or other law professional.

[PAVALKER]

Hopefully you didn't misread or misquote me.... I did not state a desire to murder someone over their protected political speech.  However, I did argue that I could use the same logic in arguing my "freedom of expression" in a manner of how I chose to "express myself".  Since the Supreme Court ruled to strike down a law against burning our flags based on "freedom of expression" then expressing myself with a bullet or baseball bat could be argued as well.  Why should my rights to express myself in a universal language/manner  (swinging a bat, throwing a rock, or firing a bullet) be violated  when their right to express themselves with fire/flames wasn't?   Playing devils advocate here obviously.....    If there is a "freedom of speech" or "expression" as it was worded, and a law against burning our countries flag was struck down as a result.... then why can't the same argument apply in other instances of "freedom of expression" ??


Oh and in case we need to rehash being American or UnAmerican .... I served 22 years in the service of this country, its constitution, and the citizens (lawful citizens mind you) and took an oath...  "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."    

And your background in supporting or "defending" the constitution is  ? ? ? ? ? ?

Your analogy of flag desecration versus murder or assault is incorrect.  When a flag is abused during political or other protest, other’s rights aren’t infringed upon.  You do not have the right to be non-offended.  When you “express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual....” you are violating the other person’s right to life and limb, as guaranteed by law.

This concept should be obvious to someone who is chest-beating about spending 22 years defending our laws and Constitution.  If you need further guidance, you should consult an attorney or other law professional.

Wasn't chest beating just clarifying your misinterpretation and accusation of  being unamerican   "Stating the desire to murder someone over their protected political speech or actions is about as un-American as you can get."  And defending my position of being pro American.

So exactly what is your background or experience in supporting or defending the constitution??  Do you have any military service for which you and all of us can be proud of?

Sorry to hijack this thread even further.... but to further the logic discussion here.... how come the Supreme Court can overturn a law in which they determine that burning a flag is a freedom of expression or speech, yet rule against the protests of and at abortion clinics (where a piece of paper simulating a "wanted" poster is deemed against the law)... see this link http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=16838 and then permit the protesting (and inciting violence IMO) at the funerals of deceased servicemen.  

What a disgrace that is, to this country, it's citizens and especially those in which they solicit to serve in their defense.   One could think that most of our Government officials, including the Supreme Court should be tried for, Treason.... as defined by the Constitution....


"Treason is defined only as going to war against the USA, or aiding the enemies of the USA. To be convicted, the accused must confess to treason, or be accused by two direct witnesses of the treason."

Aiding the enemies of the USA might be an accurate charge supporting the treason... and I bet there would be more than two witnesses to step up and accuse or testify.  

The authors were also concerned that the person convicted of treason be the only one to suffer for the treasonous acts. The Constitution explicitly states that there may be no "corruption of blood," or that the children and relatives of the traitor not be considered traitorous simply by relation; the "no forfeiture" clause basically means that once the traitor dies, "payment" for the crime ends.

Also, your comment regarding the right to life and limb applies to Grand Jury, Double Jeopardy, Self-Incrimination, Due Process as outlined in the Bill of Rights (fifth amendment).  And, those protesters didn't seem to "peaceable" in the video... so their guarantee under the first amendment might not apply.


And again I ask....  So exactly what is your background or experience in supporting or defending the constitution??  Do you have any military service, even a month or two, for which you and maybe the rest of us can be proud of?

[HayHauler]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[PAVALKER]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay  
Jimmyt

Thanks.  I wasn't beating my chest (as was suggested) or soliciting any pats on the back.... just tossed that in to support and document my pro American position (from my perspective at least).   My father always used to say... "opinions are like assholes... everyone has one and they all stink.  Don't judge the character of an individual by what they say; especially during sex, at election time, or when under duress, base their character on their past performance and actions".  And in an effort to lend some character to the the individual attacking mine... I wanted (and still want) to know his background.

[Sludge]

PA, I saw you were in the Navy for a bit... Did you ever cruise on the Iwo or the Nassau?  I spent some time on those once upon a time.

[Bama Red]

PAVALKER, thanks for your service. You made it about three times longer than me!

However, I don't think its necessary to have current or prior military service before we can be "proud" of an individual or question his patriotism (or lack thereof) in relation to defending our Constitution.

I know numerous men and women with no military service who are just as ardent defenders of Country and Constitution as anyone else. Some of these same folks have had their life endangered  just by holding these same beliefs. I would no more think of questioning their patriotism than I would yours.

BTW, I agree with you in your assessment of the alleged Christians from the Westboro Baptist Church. That's why I serve as a Patriot Guard Rider - to screen families in mourning from these terrorists and to honor our fallen heroes.

[PAVALKER]

PA, I saw you were in the Navy for a bit... Did you ever cruise on the Iwo or the Nassau?  I spent some time on those once upon a time.

Didn't serve on board those fine flat bottomed Gator Freighters, but along side them on a few others...Plymouth Rock (LSD29), Guadalcanal (LPH7), LY Spear (AS36), Theodore Roosevelt (CVN71), Nimitz (CVN68).... and shared a few rides, meals and port visits with some of your brothers I believe.  

[Bama Red]

Well I'll be dipped!! I was aboard the Guam (LPH-9) from '70-'73. She was sunk as an artificial reef five or six years ago during a SINKEX exercise.

The Gator Navy wasn't bad duty at all - got to see a good bit of our world aboard that ship.

[MP]

Hopefully you didn't misread or misquote me.... I did not state a desire to murder someone over their protected political speech.  However, I did argue that I could use the same logic in arguing my "freedom of expression" in a manner of how I chose to "express myself".  Since the Supreme Court ruled to strike down a law against burning our flags based on "freedom of expression" then expressing myself with a bullet or baseball bat could be argued as well.  Why should my rights to express myself in a universal language/manner  (swinging a bat, throwing a rock, or firing a bullet) be violated  when their right to express themselves with fire/flames wasn't?   Playing devils advocate here obviously.....    If there is a "freedom of speech" or "expression" as it was worded, and a law against burning our countries flag was struck down as a result.... then why can't the same argument apply in other instances of "freedom of expression" ??


Oh and in case we need to rehash being American or UnAmerican .... I served 22 years in the service of this country, its constitution, and the citizens (lawful citizens mind you) and took an oath...  "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."    

And your background in supporting or "defending" the constitution is  ? ? ? ? ? ?

  You do not have the right to be non-offended. 

WRONG!  All kinds of people file suit and win, because they were OFFENDED because something was done.  Usually by Christians or patriots.

[Varmintmist]

then surely I should be protected under the same rules if I were to express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual.... freedom of expression with a symbol that is almost as American as Apple Pie).   Can I apply the same logic there.....

Uhhhmmmm...NO!

Why not?    I think we should get a lawyer to argue that.....

Because the 9mm is European,


You would have to use a 45

[HayHauler]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay  
Jimmyt

Thanks.  I wasn't beating my chest (as was suggested) or soliciting any pats on the back.... just tossed that in to support and document my pro American position (from my perspective at least).   My father always used to say... "opinions are like assholes... everyone has one and they all stink.  Don't judge the character of an individual by what they say; especially during sex, at election time, or when under duress, base their character on their past performance and actions".  And in an effort to lend some character to the the individual attacking mine... I wanted (and still want) to know his background.

PA, it wasn't intended that way.  I didn't serve, but I'm about as patriotic as anyone you will ever meet.  Like you said, let your actions speak for themselves.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[PAVALKER]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay  
Jimmyt

Thanks.  I wasn't beating my chest (as was suggested) or soliciting any pats on the back.... just tossed that in to support and document my pro American position (from my perspective at least).   My father always used to say... "opinions are like assholes... everyone has one and they all stink.  Don't judge the character of an individual by what they say; especially during sex, at election time, or when under duress, base their character on their past performance and actions".  And in an effort to lend some character to the the individual attacking mine... I wanted (and still want) to know his background.

PA, it wasn't intended that way.  I didn't serve, but I'm about as patriotic as anyone you will ever meet.  Like you said, let your actions speak for themselves.

Hay 
Jimmyt

We are good... I believe I took it the way you intended it... and I do thank you for your appreciation and patriotism. 

then surely I should be protected under the same rules if I were to express my displeasure of them burning the US Flag by firing a 9mm round into the person doing so (or even swinging a baseball bat at the individual.... freedom of expression with a symbol that is almost as American as Apple Pie).   Can I apply the same logic there.....

Uhhhmmmm...NO!

Why not?    I think we should get a lawyer to argue that.....

Because the 9mm is European,


You would have to use a 45

Hmmm didn't think of it that way... you could be right.  I was merely using the 9mm as a globally common caliber.... and I do think it is one of the most common (I could be wrong about that).

Well I'll be dipped!! I was aboard the Guam (LPH-9) from '70-'73. She was sunk as an artificial reef five or six years ago during a SINKEX exercise.

The Gator Navy wasn't bad duty at all - got to see a good bit of our world aboard that ship.

   Little rough riding at times (especially in the North Atlantic).  But  I think they rode  better than the smaller bobbing destroyers or LSTs.  Carrier duty was great duty... nice smooth ride, great food; fresh milk and veggies more often than not... and regular mail service too. Not to mention Pizza and O'Douls Saturday evenings during the Gulf War.

Also, while I agree that military service, or the lack thereof, is not in itself an indicator of an individuals patriotism or character.... I am trying to give Bobbo an opportunity to stand up and provide something otherwise noteworthy (anything), to establish a basis for his character and get a better understanding of his life experiences that drive his thought process and opinions that do ultimately define a persons character.  I would personally hate to base an opinion, or judge the character, of an individual solely on what they say on an internet message board, hidden behind a keyboard... that would be unfair, and I might otherwise only think of him as just another disgruntled internet armchair bleeding heart liberal/socialist anti-military jackass or something similar to that effect.   And I wouldn't want to do that.   

[G-Man]

I'm with you, Hay!  Didn't serve, but proud of those who did and proud to be a citizen of the United States of America.

When I saw the video, I assumed the folks in it were citizens.  I didn't for once think they were illegals.....why would illegals put them selves out there like that?  The fact that these protestors are citizens is exactly my point.  If they hate the country that they are citizens of, why stay?  

While the veiwing of desecrated flags is offensive to most, it was the hatred behind these, and other protestors I've seen regarding this issue.  Yes, I fully understand that you could protest and disagree without hating something (I am probably a good example of this), but these folks really do hate what this country is doing / has done.

[Bobbo]

  You do not have the right to be non-offended. 

WRONG!  All kinds of people file suit and win, because they were OFFENDED because something was done.  Usually by Christians or patriots.

You have confused civil law with criminal law.  Our rights are derived from criminal law.  Anyone can file a civil lawsuit over anything, and sometimes prevail.

[Dragonryder2]

So why don't we get some Mexican flags and demonstrate with them.  We could write on them, walk on them, and burn them.  And if we had a permit we could do it right next to this demostration next time.

[Bobbo]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay  
Jimmyt

Thanks.  I wasn't beating my chest (as was suggested) or soliciting any pats on the back.... just tossed that in to support and document my pro American position (from my perspective at least).   My father always used to say... "opinions are like assholes... everyone has one and they all stink.  Don't judge the character of an individual by what they say; especially during sex, at election time, or when under duress, base their character on their past performance and actions".  And in an effort to lend some character to the the individual attacking mine... I wanted (and still want) to know his background.

I have found that those who boast the most about their achievements and patriotism, generally have very little of both.

[Bobbo]

So why don't we get some Mexican flags and demonstrate with them.  We could write on them, walk on them, and burn them.  And if we had a permit we could do it right next to this demostration next time.

You certainly have the right to do that.  What message do you want to send to the Mexican government with your protest?

[HayHauler]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay  
Jimmyt

Thanks.  I wasn't beating my chest (as was suggested) or soliciting any pats on the back.... just tossed that in to support and document my pro American position (from my perspective at least).   My father always used to say... "opinions are like assholes... everyone has one and they all stink.  Don't judge the character of an individual by what they say; especially during sex, at election time, or when under duress, base their character on their past performance and actions".  And in an effort to lend some character to the the individual attacking mine... I wanted (and still want) to know his background.

I have found that those who boast the most about their achievements and patriotism, generally have very little of both.

It is not an achievement, it's called "service".

Hay 
Jimmyt

[PAVALKER]

Well I'm PROUD of you PAVALKER!  Thank you for your 22 years of service.

From the heart.

Hay  
Jimmyt

Thanks.  I wasn't beating my chest (as was suggested) or soliciting any pats on the back.... just tossed that in to support and document my pro American position (from my perspective at least).   My father always used to say... "opinions are like assholes... everyone has one and they all stink.  Don't judge the character of an individual by what they say; especially during sex, at election time, or when under duress, base their character on their past performance and actions".  And in an effort to lend some character to the the individual attacking mine... I wanted (and still want) to know his background.

I have found that those who boast the most about their achievements and patriotism, generally have very little of both.

Interesting.....

First off.... to be clear here... you attacked my patriotism by stating my comment was un-American, and only then did I point out my service as a defense against your baseless attack.  When I asked (a few times) for you to stand up and give us your background... it was a question asked which remains unanswered, and something I can only imagine that you must be ashamed or afraid of letting be known. 

And to go along with your findings or logic....  I have found that those who don't at least mention their service (or a lack thereof), even when asked, (military/public/otherwise) or their pride/patriotism, and then further attack those that have served in some capacity, generally have none of either (service or patriotism) and are usually just some insignificant jealous legal wannabe piss ant hiding behind a keyboard, acting out and stirring the pot.   But that is just my opinion.... and as I stated earlier, they all stink depending on your perspective. 

[Westernbiker]

PA don't worry about the hijack thread thing, no biggie and thanks for serving. I also served, US Navy from 1976 to 1982 aboard the USS Saratoga CV60 out of Mayport Florida but this thread was not started to see who has military service and who does not. I don't think you, or anyone else, will ever get a straight answer out of BOBBO. I started this thresd to show all of you that do not live in Arizona what is happening here and what we put up with on a daily basis. It was posted to show that if we do not put a stop to this it will be happening in your state soon enough. It really upsets me to see ANYONE do that to the American flag that I gave my time and life for. It is there right to do this? Is it my right to defend it? I was not at this rally and now that I see what went on it was a darn good thing I was not. I am not an extremist, I am a proud American first, a redneck cowboy second and a motorcycle enthusiast third. I was taught respect for my elders and women. I was taught to be patient when dealing with others and to turn the other cheek. I was also taught that when turning the other cheek did not work and your patiance ran out to do what you had to do. I just wanted you all to see this, in hopes that you all will understand what, how and why this state I live in is doing all those nasty things like securing our boarders and getting the ILLEGAL deported. In all honesty and from the bottom of my heart...If you do not like this country.....GET THE HECK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAUSE I SURE DON'T WANT YOU HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PAVALKER]

So why don't we get some Mexican flags and demonstrate with them.  We could write on them, walk on them, and burn them.  And if we had a permit we could do it right next to this demostration next time.

You certainly have the right to do that.  What message do you want to send to the Mexican government with your protest?

I don't think it would be a message necessarily sent to the Mexican Government... more so a message sent to the Mexican Protester that is disgracing the American flag in America... that by pissing on or disgracing their flag and heritage we don't respect or care about them as they don't us.  More like a tit for tat....  but you knew that didn't you...

[G-Man]

So why don't we get some Mexican flags and demonstrate with them.  We could write on them, walk on them, and burn them.  And if we had a permit we could do it right next to this demostration next time.

Unfortunately. it wasn't Mexicans who did this, it was  AMERICANS. 

[PAVALKER]

So why don't we get some Mexican flags and demonstrate with them.  We could write on them, walk on them, and burn them.  And if we had a permit we could do it right next to this demostration next time.

Unfortunately. it wasn't Mexicans who did this, it was  AMERICANS. 

Did we confirm that?  I thought it was perceived that they were people in America with a Mexican heritage or background, and not necessarily all citizens (a citizen is a legal citizen otherwise they are illegal aliens right?).   I wasn't checking ID's and didn't get a reading if someone else was either....

[PAVALKER]

PA don't worry about the hijack thread thing, no biggie and thanks for serving. I also served, US Navy from 1976 to 1982 aboard the USS Saratoga CV60 out of Mayport Florida but this thread was not started to see who has military service and who does not. I don't think you, or anyone else, will ever get a straight answer out of BOBBO. I started this thresd to show all of you that do not live in Arizona what is happening here and what we put up with on a daily basis. It was posted to show that if we do not put a stop to this it will be happening in your state soon enough. It really upsets me to see ANYONE do that to the American flag that I gave my time and life for. It is there right to do this? Is it my right to defend it? I was not at this rally and now that I see what went on it was a darn good thing I was not. I am not an extremist, I am a proud American first, a redneck cowboy second and a motorcycle enthusiast third. I was taught respect for my elders and women. I was taught to be patient when dealing with others and to turn the other cheek. I was also taught that when turning the other cheek did not work and your patiance ran out to do what you had to do. I just wanted you all to see this, in hopes that you all will understand what, how and why this state I live in is doing all those nasty things like securing our boarders and getting the ILLEGAL deported. In all honesty and from the bottom of my heart...If you do not like this country.....GET THE HECK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAUSE I SURE DON'T WANT YOU HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again I apologize, and appreciate your understanding and thank you for your service.

I feel for you in Arizona and everyone in those southern bordering states.  Some of us in other states have had an occasion to witness first hand locally only a fraction of what you have, and I don't like or agree with it.... and something needs to be done about it.  Unfortunately our politicians/government are failing us and are to busy putting on a distracting show by pissing in each  others political party's corn flakes.  They could all very well be guilty of treason (aiding the enemy) or at least incompetence.... but they are to busy climbing on the backs of each other to get to the top instead of worrying about what they should be doing for us as a nation.  Sorta reminds me of Carp fish in a lake ... where they swim over each other to get to a slice of bread.