"Bible thumpers" this is for you

[bigvalkriefan]

I am one also. This video of Penn Jillette of Penn and Teller is a real eye opener for us believers.
Please if your not a believer and don't have anything good to say, keep it to yourself. Be respectful for a change.

Penn Gillette gets a gift of a Bible	powered by Aeva

[Bobbo]

Penn Jillette also is noted as saying Christians should go out and proselytize, since the Bible tells them they are expected to.  Surprisingly, many churches use the video of him saying that in their sermons.  I have been a fan of Penn and Teller for over a decade, and have met them several times.  They are both down to Earth, great people!   

[bigvalkriefan]

I'm not sure why you say "Surprisingly, many churches use the video of him saying that in their sermons." Please explain.
I should be no surprise, that is what the Bible commands, not suggests, us to do. All Bible teaching Christ following churches should be teaching this. Unfortunately many Christians, myself included, do not follow this 100%. Why you might ask, many reasons, inconvenient, embarrassment, adequacy, lack of knowledge, whatever other excuse we can think of. None of them legit.
When a Christian follows Christs commands 100%, they are the ones that are scorned, made fun of, look at with a"queer" eye.
There needs to be a balance so that you are able to relate to the non Christians but not be "of the world." It's OK to be "in the world" just not "of the world." I'm sure you know the difference.

[Chrisj CMA]

I see conviction in that Penn dudes face.  I think the Holy Spirit is working on him.  Dont be shocked if he converts and becomes one POWERFUL Christian.  Just something in the way his emotions were seemingly right under the skin.  He was bothered to the core..........we shall see

[3fan4life]

Very interesting video.....

Shows that you never know what effect you will have on someone.

[Bobbo]

I'm not sure why you say "Surprisingly, many churches use the video of him saying that in their sermons." Please explain.

Penn Jillette is a very vocal and avowed Atheist.  He speaks out against religion, especially Christianity quite often.  To use a video and audio of someone who detests them would be surprising to most people.

[BigAl]

There are no Athiests in Hell.

In a Fox Hole.

Or on Death Row.

Trying to find the meaning of life in your last days or hours is tough.

But there is a higher power, that changed my life for the better/

I would rather witness to a total athiest than those that have been Bible Thumped and just pretend to go along.

If you don't know Christ that is OK by me, but I pray he steps in and reveals himself in a mighty way to this man.

God is no respecter of persons, what he will do for me, he will do for you and vice versa.

[Bobbo]

I see conviction in that Penn dudes face.  I think the Holy Spirit is working on him.  Dont be shocked if he converts and becomes one POWERFUL Christian.  Just something in the way his emotions were seemingly right under the skin.  He was bothered to the core..........we shall see

I'll tell him this when we see him in Vegas later this year.  He will get a HOOT out of it!!   

[Serk]

I see conviction in that Penn dudes face.  I think the Holy Spirit is working on him.  Dont be shocked if he converts and becomes one POWERFUL Christian.  Just something in the way his emotions were seemingly right under the skin.  He was bothered to the core..........we shall see

Have I Converted?	powered by Aeva

[alph]

I WONDER WHAT "TELLER" HAS TO SAY!!!   

[3fan4life]

I have said this before and I'll say it again............

I cannot understand how anyone can believe that there is NO God.

I fully understand how and why people have different ideas about who or what God is, and I fully understand how and why people have different ideas about how to reach God.

But, I will never understand how people can believe that there isn't a God.

To me nature and life itself are much TOO complicated to have came to be from a coincidental, "Big Bang".

In my mind "Intelligent Design" is the only credible explanation.

[Chrisj CMA]

I see conviction in that Penn dudes face.  I think the Holy Spirit is working on him.  Dont be shocked if he converts and becomes one POWERFUL Christian.  Just something in the way his emotions were seemingly right under the skin.  He was bothered to the core..........we shall see

I'll tell him this when we see him in Vegas later this year.  He will get a HOOT out of it!!   

Ok Bobbo, tell him I am praying that God wins him over.  You can use my name and give him my email if you want to

[hubcapsc]

I have said this before and I'll say it again............

I cannot understand how anyone can believe that there is NO God.

I grew up in South Carolina, God was a granted, talked about everywhere
including at school.

But school also had science classes... I gradually became exposed to things
like the evidence that showed clearly that the earth was billions of years old
and the genealogy of Jesus Christ showed that the earth was around 3,000 years...
something had to give... I mean, how could Noah build a wooden boat the size of an
aircraft carrier in his back yard when he was 800 years old? I figured I was was "unsaved"
and would always be...

As time passes, we all run into many different kinds of people, I've met devoted Christians,
non-believers who don't spend much time thinking about it one way or the other, and downright
hateful atheists... It was real clear to me who I didn't want to be like... as I crossed paths
with more actual Christians I slowly became aware of who I did want to be like, and how, as
impossible as it was, I wished I could "know Jesus" like they did.

What do you know, that's all it takes really. Like the thief on the cross who merely said
"remember me"... Jesus knew what was in his heart, and what is in mine. Scientific
arguments about God all amount to arguments about how many angels can dance on the
head of a pin, and are of as much use. I'm not saved by the boat of Noah, but by the
sacrifice of Jesus. Science enables our space ships to rendezvous in orbit, Jesus saves our souls...

-Mike

[bigvalkriefan]

I'm not sure why you say "Surprisingly, many churches use the video of him saying that in their sermons." Please explain.

Penn Jillette is a very vocal and avowed Atheist.  He speaks out against religion, especially Christianity quite often.  To use a video and audio of someone who detests them would be surprising to most people.

My thinking is that the churches wanted to make an impact on their people. They wanted to get them to understand the importance of evangelism. Our "job" is to spread the word, that's it. It's not our problem if they don't hear the message, that's up to the Holy Spirit.

[Bobbo]

I see conviction in that Penn dudes face.  I think the Holy Spirit is working on him.  Dont be shocked if he converts and becomes one POWERFUL Christian.  Just something in the way his emotions were seemingly right under the skin.  He was bothered to the core..........we shall see

I'll tell him this when we see him in Vegas later this year.  He will get a HOOT out of it!!   

Ok Bobbo, tell him I am praying that God wins him over.  You can use my name and give him my email if you want to

You and probably 10,000 others...

[The Anvil]

I don't think he was moved by the Bible itself, but rather the kind and unassuming way in which the person who gave it to him chose to impart his gift.

[Bobbo]

I don't think he was moved by the Bible itself, but rather the kind and unassuming way in which the person who gave it to him chose to impart his gift.

 

[Valkernaut]

When I was young, in church whenever the door was open, always praying and doing my utmost to do as I read in the scriptures, I was positive I knew, without a doubt what the real truth was. I thought that baptism was the greatest experience I had ever had. I felt as though I floated back to the bank of the river(rather than waded). I was always testifying in church and doing "personal work" at the park benches and with people on the streets. Knew it ALL - did not hesitate to spread it around.
 
Now I am old(76yrs?) and realize that I know NOTHING about what's going on. I feel as tho I am the same person that I was back then. I'm still kind to folks and don't hate anyone or anything. I'm no longer leery to go to sleep at night for fear of not waking in this world tomorrow.

I now believe that NO ONE alive knows the so called "truth". We only "know" what we accept of what we read or that someone else has read and related to us. I do not think I am Atheist - I just do not know....   

Jim

[Paxton]

As I recall...
Jesus said somethin' to the effect that to reach the kingdom of heaven
you must take everything you own and give it to the poor! 
Well, I am poor... ???
So, to those fervent Christians in this forum I say... do you want salvation? 
Well, you can find it by shipping ALL your Valks to me, on you dime! 

Think about it. It is a small price to pay for eternal life!
BTW, is God Caucasian, Mongoloid, Negroid, a man, a woman, tall, short, old ... any tatoos?”

By the way folks reference God, I conclude that God's a dude... but what about the balance of my questions? 

"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image
when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
— Anne Lamott

[DarkMeister]

Valkernaut: truer words have never been spoken.
We go through stages in life where our convictions shift, on a number of fronts.

[The Anvil]

When I was young, in church whenever the door was open, always praying and doing my utmost to do as I read in the scriptures, I was positive I knew, without a doubt what the real truth was. I thought that baptism was the greatest experience I had ever had. I felt as though I floated back to the bank of the river(rather than waded). I was always testifying in church and doing "personal work" at the park benches and with people on the streets. Knew it ALL - did not hesitate to spread it around.
 
Now I am old(76yrs?) and realize that I know NOTHING about what's going on. I feel as tho I am the same person that I was back then. I'm still kind to folks and don't hate anyone or anything. I'm no longer leery to go to sleep at night for fear of not waking in this world tomorrow.

I now believe that NO ONE alive knows the so called "truth". We only "know" what we accept of what we read or that someone else has read and related to us. I do not think I am Atheist - I just do not know....   

Jim

I personally feel that it's okay to "not know". With the way of today's world it can be hard to believe in a benevolent god. Not impossible, but hard. I can't imagine that a god worth worshiping would hold that against someone who's led an otherwise good life.
 

[SANDMAN5]

As I recall...
Jesus said somethin' to the effect that to reach the kingdom of heaven
you must take everything you own and give it to the poor!   
Well, I am poor... 
So, to those fervent Christians in this forum I say... do you want salvation? 
Well, you can find it by shipping ALL your Valks to me, on you dime!


Think about it. It is a small price to pay for eternal life!
BTW, is God Caucasian, Mongoloid, Negroid, a man, a woman, tall, short, old ... any tatoos?”

By the way folks reference God, I conclude that God's a dude... but what about the balance of my questions?   

Either you GREATLY misunderstood what you were taught or you were taught by someone that
was either ignorant of the Bible..or lying. Where does it say to give all my money away to get to
Heaven? Exact scriptures please. Also, God is a Spirit.

[Willow]

Penn seems to "get it" much more than a lot of folks who claim to be Christians.  I don't think that means he's on the verge of converting, but it does mean that he recognizes the hypocrisy in the behavior practiced by many of us.

[bscrive]

First and foremost I do not believe in god.  My wife on the other hand is a devout Jehovah Witness.  I would never think of mocking her beliefs.  Religion is a very personal topic.  I also think religion has been used wrongly by many peoples for their own purposes.  This is not why I am an atheist though.  I  am an atheist because I believe that god was create by man to have something greater then themselves to believe in.  Most people need that in their lives to feel comfortable and to have hope that there is something after this life that is better.  I do not.

[The Anvil]

Penn seems to "get it" much more than a lot of folks who claim to be Christians.  I don't think that means he's on the verge of converting, but it does mean that he recognizes the hypocrisy in the behavior practiced by many of us.

A lot of agnostics/atheists are better Christians than many people who call themselves Christians. Being a good Christian is not simply believing in the bible or that Christ is your savior any more than simply following Christ's example makes you one which again, is why I qualify my claim to being one. To be a true Christian without qualification or an asterisk next to your name then you must do both.

But who would you rather have living next door? The guy on the fence about Christ's actual divinity who truly does the best he can to live by Christ's example or the man who uses Christ's sacrifice to abet his many sins and nullify his guilt? Because whether you're smart enough to know it or not, you'd rather have me living next door than some of history's most infamous "Christians".

[SANDMAN5]

A lot of agnostics/atheists are better Christians than many people who call themselves Christians.

Those groups are mutually exclusive. It's impossible to be both an athiest and a Christian.

Because whether you're smart enough to know it or not, you'd rather have me living next door than some of history's most infamous "Christians".

That is a perfect example of someone actually BEING a Christian or just wearing the label.

[Paxton]

QUOTE: Either you GREATLY misunderstood what you were taught or you were taught by someone that
was either ignorant of the Bible..or lying. Where does it say to give all my money away to get to
Heaven? Exact scriptures please. Also, God is a Spirit."
=====================================================================================================================

I suspect that you have a Bible and seem to know more about it than I do...
I gifted mine to my Grandson.

But, as I recall from my institutionalized Bible-School-Dude,
Jesus went to a Gig somewhere...
and the richest Cat in town popped a question... something like,
"... Jesus, how do I get to the kingdom of heaven...?"

You might be correct.
The answer I learned to that question could have well been a lie...
perhaps designed to scare us into givin' more money to the church.

At any rate, since we are invoking Jesus' deeds, with Bible at hand,
I would start by reading the New Testament... maybe the scriptures of
Mark, John, Luke or Matthew...?

I am not a Bible scholar so I might be lost in translation...
I think it reads something like this;
"... and Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him,
‘You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give it to the poor,
and you will have treasure in heaven..." .’.

It gets further confusing...
I was told that those guys' writings were done over a century after Jesus was murdered.???
Really?

If so, how accurate can their stories be... not only 'bout what Jesus exactly said,
but about what Jesus actually did...
Stuff like makin' wine out of water, kickin' butt at the temple, walkin' on water, etc...
And what about Jesus' virtual disappearance for nearly 20 years...
What does that say 'bout Joseph and Mary's parental responsibilities?
They were 'round all the time and/or didn't go anywhere far...
So, couldn't they at least offer a hint on what was up w/Jesus?

I realize these are articles of faith, but heck, I can't remember what I had for dinner last night!
I'd guess that after a century plus,
they too experienced senior moments, especially Mark and Luke!...

Incidentally, where in the Bible it says "God helps those who help themselves?"
Inquiring minds want to know.

RIDE SAFE

[The Anvil]

A lot of agnostics/atheists are better Christians than many people who call themselves Christians.

Again, I'm not talking about definitions, I'm talking about the practice of being a good person and how it relates to being a Christian. You're just not really getting it.

[BigAl]

Thanks Hubcapsc(Mike) that was a great testimony.

ANd they will be saved by their faith and the power of Their Testimony.

You are at the heart of the matter, if you look in Genesis with a open mind, your own mind, the Word and Science

are more one,,,,,,, than you may realize.

Stuff like let the sea bring forth, let the earth bring forth, and that explains a lot.

This was long before the guy came up with the evolutionary theory.

Darwin that is.

I think people see all the things that religion brings about, war and strife, and they miss the real deal.

Jesus is it and no other name has the power his does.

That's why they don't mind Budha. Mohammed, and others in the school, but mention Jesus and all hell breaks loose.

He said he will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

But he said Let us Make Man.

Very different.

The only question God has for you to answer here on this earth in this present age is Who do you say my Son Jesus is.

Well who is he ?

AL

[Willow]

At any rate, since we are invoking Jesus' deeds, with Bible at hand,
I would start by reading the New Testament... maybe the scriptures of
Mark, John, Luke or Matthew...?

I am not a Bible scholar so I might be lost in translation...
I think it reads something like this;
"... and Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him,
‘You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give it to the poor,
and you will have treasure in heaven..." .’.

It gets further confusing...
I was told that those guys' writings were done over a century after Jesus was murdered.???
Really?  

Good questions, Paxton.

Your memory (or research) is correct.  That is the accurate quote of Jesus' reply to the "Rich Young Ruler".  Most of us interpret that response as directly to answer the question to that one young man as he didn't ask, "What must anyone do to be saved," and Jesus did reply in the singular.

However, if I do receive an imperative from the Deity to divest myself of all worldly wealth, I'll seek you out first for at least one of my Valkyries.  

The Gospel of John, the latest of the four written was penned somewhere around 90 - 95 A.D.  Jesus crucifixion occurred somewhere near 30 A.D.  Matthew, Mark, and John wrote first person accounts.  Luke gathered information for his writings from other witnesses.  

[BigAl]

Jesus was not murdered.

He gave his life freely.

Was obediant to the Cross.

For you and for me.

Sweat ran from his brow in the Garden of Gethsemany, as it were blood.

Searching for guidance, He said not my will be done but my father who lives in heaven.



That God might have the adoption of sons.

[The Anvil]

Jesus was not murdered.

I have deep respect for the sacrifice, but it's still murder.

[Robert]

This is a good video of a atheist turned Christian, the end when he talks about his little girl is the most awesome statement done by someone with nothing to gain. If you have forgotten the power of God in your life or peoples lives then think about all that Jesus did for you and ask for a renewal of that fire. God is mindful that we are but dust. Dust and sheep which are also pretty stupid need constant help and guidance which God does in the Holy Spirit. A Christian walk without the Holy Spirit cannot really be done, but the walk with the Holy Spirit becomes a relationship. A relationship grows with time and the more you get to know Him the more you love Him. As with all relationships if you love Him and dont keep going to Him it dies. Ask for help to rekindle the desire.
With God all things are possible and how those that dont understand want to say that things cant be just because we live in a box and are so limited. God is limitless and He says He makes sure His word performs what He wants it to, He looks after it. I hate the words that come through as innocent and are really death and doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQuvsGe3VL0&feature=player_embedded

[SANDMAN5]

A lot of agnostics/atheists are better Christians than many people who call themselves Christians.
Again, I'm not talking about definitions, I'm talking about the practice of being a good person and how it relates to being a Christian. You're just not really getting it.

Then you should have said "a better person" instead of Christian....and I would have agreed
with you.

[The Anvil]

A lot of agnostics/atheists are better Christians than many people who call themselves Christians.
Again, I'm not talking about definitions, I'm talking about the practice of being a good person and how it relates to being a Christian. You're just not really getting it.

Then you should have said "a better person" instead of Christian....and I would have agreed
with you.

Fair enough.

[SANDMAN5]

That is the accurate quote of Jesus' reply to the "Rich Young Ruler".  Most of us interpret that response as directly to answer the question to that one young man as he didn't ask, "What must anyone do to be saved," and Jesus did reply in the singular.

Exactly!! The rich kid was sad because he had a lot of stuff. Jesus knew that money and
possessions were what he put first in his life. A gazillion dollars won't get you into Heaven,
believeing on Jesus will.

[Walküre]

Hmmm....

Penn & Teller; The Bible is Bullshit.	powered by Aeva

[Paxton]

QUOTE #1: "That is the accurate quote of Jesus' reply to the "Rich Young Ruler". 
Most of us interpret that response as directly
to answer the question to that one young man as he didn't ask,
"What must anyone do to be saved," and Jesus did reply in the singular.

QUOTE #2: "Exactly!! The rich kid was sad because he had a lot of stuff.
Jesus knew that money and possessions were what he put first in his life..."

========================================================================================================================

I definitely find comfort on the ("most of us") interpretation that Jesus was talking in the singular.
I feel liberated from this  life-long misunderstood burden!

Foolishly I thought that ALL Jesus' words were applicable to ME ... But as it turns out, in this instance Jesus was
singularly talking to the young ruler as "the rich kid was sad because he had a lot of stuff."

I wonder why the gospel would tell us a story about Jesus that has no relevance to our collective humanity.
In today's context, it appears that Jesus was just Twittering this rich kid, and I guessed that he was talking to me too!

Now I feel stupid... and Vane. Jesus wasn't even talking to me!  

[Willow]

=========================================================================================

I definitely find comfort on the ("most of us") interpretation that Jesus was talking in the singular.
I feel liberated from this  life-long misunderstood burden!

Foolishly I thought that ALL Jesus' words were applicable to ME ... But as it turns out, in this instance Jesus was
singularly talking to the young ruler as "the rich kid was sad because he had a lot of stuff."

I wonder why the gospel would tell us a story about Jesus that has no relevance to our collective humanity.
In today's context, it appears that Jesus was just Twittering this rich kid, and I guessed that he was talking to me too!

Now I feel stupid... and Vane. Jesus wasn't even talking to me!  

I don't want to drag this down to the level of argument, but surely you don't mean what you said.

The complete quote is, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." That is, of course from the NASB English translation of the original Greek.

In another place Jesus says, "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me."

In another place He says, "Friend, do what you have come for."

And to one, "Go wash in the pool of Siloam."

And to  another, "Remove the stone."

I'm sure you get the idea.

As to relevance, I think the concept Jesus expressed is applicable to all of us on two levels.  On one it is that anything we own (or rather that owns us) of which we are unwilling to divest ourselves for His purposes will hinder our devotion and service and, according to Jesus, our gift of eternal life.  On a second level we should as a practice be giving to the poor from our riches.  You might note from the quote that He didn't instruct the rich young ruler to sell all that he owned or to give away all that he owned.  By our interpretation we have often implied those.

Be safe, J. Paxton, you're still on my list for one of my Valks should I be instructed to divest myself of them.  Actually, in better keeping with the story, shouldn't I sell my Valkyrie to you and foward the proceeds to Somalia?   

Either way, there's no reason for either of us to feel unintelligent or weathered based on our understanding or lack thereof.

[SANDMAN5]

Now I feel stupid... and Vane. Jesus wasn't even talking to me!

You should (vane?) 
Anyway, the point Jesus was making (apparently you STILL haven't figured it out)
is that the rich guy worshipped his money and belongings. They were more
important to him than God. It was meant as a lesson for everyone, not just
as an anecdote. Do you need yet ANOTHER explanation?!?