Social Justice,....In Little League!

[G-Man]

Driving home from work the other day, I heard this story relayed by a radio talk show host, Steve Marlsberg.  His son was playing in a little league game in which one team was winning by 7 runs.  A boy hit the ball, ran to first, beat the throw, but was called out by the Umpire.  When the coach and some parents protested, the umpire said that a call like that was warranted in a game like this (in which one team was up by several runs).  When they further protested, the adults were threatened by the umpire to be thrown out of the park (seems the umpire has this right) and will be made to wait in the parking lot.

This burned my a$$ as I listened.  This moron took away the accomplishment of this little boy to make the game closer in score.  I wondered how many strikes were called as balls?  How long was this "umpire" doing this?  How many individual accomplishments had this person stolen from children?

I understand that there are leagues that don't keep score, yadda, yadda.  This is fine if the parents and kids know this going into it.  But, in a game/league that keeps score, this is a dispicable practice and this person should be fired from his position as umpire.  Where do these people come from?

[Chrisj CMA]

Well, if the liberal agenda succeeds and schools go more this way, the kids will all think its normal someday.........Aint socialism great.......well just until you run out of other peoples money

[Black Dog]

I was a coach for my two boys from T-Ball, up to 8th grade (a total of 12 years)...  The first two or three years (T-Ball - Coach Pitch) we didn't keep score, which was known going in...

Don't kid yourself...  That kind of rule (no score keeping) is for parents to feel good about themselves (little Johnny or Suzy won't get their tender feelings hurt by a lopsided loss)...  Every one of my kids knew the score at the end of the game, and they all tried their hardest to win   ...  Not because I pushed them to do so, but that's what kids do!

Black Dog

[Jabba]

One of my fondest memories from little league was playing in an all-star game.  Sectional championship.  Double elimination tourney.  We had already been beaten once by the team we were playing.  We were going to have to beat them 2 x to win the sectional.

Bottom of the 7th (7 inning games) down 17-1 with 2 outs...  Read that again. NOT a typo.  We then proceed to go on a 2 out rampage and score 17 runs to win the game.  They went thru like 7 pitchers trying to get 1 out.  

Then, as little league rules (then at least) dictated, once a pitcher has pitched, he can not pitch again the same day... they had 0 pitchers left, and we stomped them to death in the 2nd game of the double header.

If we had had an umpire like is described above, that would NEVER have happened.  Those of us on that team still talk about it 30 years later when we see each other about.

Jabba

[czuch]

Sometimes ya gotta explain "winners and losers" in the parking lot.
Home run, or Ball??!!
Or wear a dress and report anyone who laughs to HR.

[fiddle mike]

The Umpire is just giving the boys a taste of reality. 
Think of it as Affirmative Action, or "Leveling the playing field". 

[Fudd]

I can see all kinds of screwed up possibilities.

How 'bout granting a child a base because he is underprivileged?

And maybe the severely socioeconomic disadvantaged should just be given a run without having to leave the comfort of the dugout.

[G-Man]

The Umpire is just giving the boys a taste of reality. 
Think of it as Affirmative Action, or "Leveling the playing field". 

And this is OK?  To steal accomplishments from children because adults look to screw each other later in life?  No way, Jose!

[mtrdrms]

Well I think you are right on in the first post about individual accomplishments.  This thread seems to be going the way of utilititarian vs. libertarian.  Are the individual accomplishments of one child more important than the greater good of keeping the game close and giving both teams a chance to win?  I'm not here to argue either side.  However we don't know alot of the story and all to often ignorance and lack of facts leads to hanging someone (in this case a little league umpire).  
I coach and have played baseball and football and can tell you that some games should be lopsided, and some really shouldn't.  Say you've got a really bad first baseman that can't catch the ball.  You can have an all-star infield but they can't keep hits from coming in.  Should they be punished for the first basemans ineptitude?  If we are identifying idividuals for their strengths and weaknesses this can be traumatising for some.  Have you ever had to cheer up the worst kid on the team or keep order within a team of widely varying abilities?  It sucks.  Sometimes equity (not equality) and anonymity are what these kids need.  And please, try not to latch onto the idea that everyone has a socialist or conservative agenda.  It really doesn't apply.

[fiddle mike]

The Umpire is just giving the boys a taste of reality. 
Think of it as Affirmative Action, or "Leveling the playing field". 

And this is OK?  To steal accomplishments from children because adults look to screw each other later in life?  No way, Jose!

Didn't say it was OK.

[sugerbear]

Well, if the liberal agenda succeeds and schools go more this way, the kids will all think its normal someday.........Aint socialism great.......well just until you run out of other peoples money

SHEEEESH MORE POLITICAL BS!!!!!!!

can't you see right from wrong without being a political finger pointer?

[Bobbo]

In the few Little League games I've been involved with, only the team manager can speak to the umpire.  Arguing with a bad call will usually get you thrown out of the game, and parents joining into the fracas will almost always result in ejection from the park.  I have never heard an umpire explain a call in any situation, and I suspect the "social engineering" explanation in this anecdotal story was interjected for political purposes.

It apparently worked, because several other posters bemoaned the "liberal agenda" being forced upon them...  

[G-Man]

Well I think you are right on in the first post about individual accomplishments.  This thread seems to be going the way of utilititarian vs. libertarian.  Are the individual accomplishments of one child more important than the greater good of keeping the game close and giving both teams a chance to win?  I'm not here to argue either side.  However we don't know alot of the story and all to often ignorance and lack of facts leads to hanging someone (in this case a little league umpire).  
I coach and have played baseball and football and can tell you that some games should be lopsided, and some really shouldn't.  Say you've got a really bad first baseman that can't catch the ball.  You can have an all-star infield but they can't keep hits from coming in.  Should they be punished for the first basemans ineptitude?  If we are identifying idividuals for their strengths and weaknesses this can be traumatising for some.  Have you ever had to cheer up the worst kid on the team or keep order within a team of widely varying abilities?  It sucks.  Sometimes equity (not equality) and anonymity are what these kids need.  And please, try not to latch onto the idea that everyone has a socialist or conservative agenda.  It really doesn't apply.

Then change the 1st baseman.  Or, how about this novel idea.....work with the kid on his skills.  The coach, or the kids dad are responsible for helping this kid reach his potential.  ALL little league teams have kids with varying level of skills.  The ages in little league range from 8 to 12.  There is a huge difference between 8 and 12 in skill levels.  The poorer performing usually played the minimum of innings as designated by the league.  When I played, it was a min. of 2 innings whether they reached the kids turn at bat or not.  My first two years I did my 2 innings per game, but as I practiced and grew, I played more and more.  And if a better player showed up, I lost my position but played harder to master the new position.  I believe your post has a lot of excuses mixed in it (same as a lot of social issues nowadays), none of which will help improve the ability of the poorer players.  Practice and hard work will.  And stealing accomplishments from a kid on the other team certainly won't make that 1st baseman any better as a ballplayer or a person.

[Chrisj CMA]

Well, if the liberal agenda succeeds and schools go more this way, the kids will all think its normal someday.........Aint socialism great.......well just until you run out of other peoples money

SHEEEESH MORE POLITICAL BS!!!!!!!

can't you see right from wrong without being a political finger pointer?

I have a few good friends that are teachers........its just what is happening

[G-Man]

In the few Little League games I've been involved with, only the team manager can speak to the umpire.  Arguing with a bad call will usually get you thrown out of the game, and parents joining into the fracas will almost always result in ejection from the park.  I have never heard an umpire explain a call in any situation, and I suspect the "social engineering" explanation in this anecdotal story was interjected for political purposes.

It apparently worked, because several other posters bemoaned the "liberal agenda" being forced upon them...  

I can only relay the story as I heard it, Bobbo.  I did not embellish it at all.  I can't argue that the original teller of the story had an agenda to do so, but the agenda doesn't negate the wrongness of interjecting social justice into chidren's sports. 

I can recall many parents hollering over bad calls, not to the point of ejection from the field, but it was done.  And I also recall games continuing under protest by the coaches when obvious bad calls were made.  We even replayed games from the point of the bad call when protests were found to be warranted. 

[Bobbo]

I can only relay the story as I heard it, Bobbo.  I did not embellish it at all.  I can't argue that the original teller of the story had an agenda to do so, but the agenda doesn't negate the wrongness of interjecting social justice into chidren's sports. 

I can recall many parents hollering over bad calls, not to the point of ejection from the field, but it was done.  And I also recall games continuing under protest by the coaches when obvious bad calls were made.  We even replayed games from the point of the bad call when protests were found to be warranted. 

I wasn't suggesting that you embellished the story at all, but it sounds like a typical conservative talk show story.  I'm guessing that this is a conservative talk show program...     My point focused on the assumption that a bad call was done for political reasons.  I have witnessed many bad calls by umpires, and most of the time it was due to a combination of inattention and incompetence.  Since Little League umpires are volunteers, you have to take what you get.

Parents booing, or briefly yelling from the stands for a bad call were common, and never resulted in ejection, but if you got onto the field, you were "outta here"!

If an umpire continually made bad calls, the manager could complain to the board.  They would review and get rid of the umpire if too many complaints were filed.

[mtrdrms]

I don't see this as an argument of semantics and management of a team and I don't think thats what you intended it to be.  Althought maybe you did and I apologize. I see this as an opportunity to debate justice.  Again I will offer a situation:  Lets say the hitter (we'll call him Hitter) in question has been crushing the ball all day.  Just plastering the infield of a far inferior team.  Making them look really bad.  Finally, in the last inning with no chance of losing the game, Hitter smacks one to the unable but well intended second baseman.  Miraculously, the infielder fields a nice ground ball and somehow retrieves the ball from his glove and gets the ball to the first baseman but just a hair too late.  What do you do?  What is the right thing to do?  Who do you best serve by your call and why are all the people involved at this game?  Again this is a hypothetical situation but hopefully reduces the general sweeping assumptions of what is the right thing to do.

Well I think you are right on in the first post about individual accomplishments.  This thread seems to be going the way of utilititarian vs. libertarian.  Are the individual accomplishments of one child more important than the greater good of keeping the game close and giving both teams a chance to win?  I'm not here to argue either side.  However we don't know alot of the story and all to often ignorance and lack of facts leads to hanging someone (in this case a little league umpire).  
I coach and have played baseball and football and can tell you that some games should be lopsided, and some really shouldn't.  Say you've got a really bad first baseman that can't catch the ball.  You can have an all-star infield but they can't keep hits from coming in.  Should they be punished for the first basemans ineptitude?  If we are identifying idividuals for their strengths and weaknesses this can be traumatising for some.  Have you ever had to cheer up the worst kid on the team or keep order within a team of widely varying abilities?  It sucks.  Sometimes equity (not equality) and anonymity are what these kids need.  And please, try not to latch onto the idea that everyone has a socialist or conservative agenda.  It really doesn't apply.

Then change the 1st baseman.  Or, how about this novel idea.....work with the kid on his skills.  The coach, or the kids dad are responsible for helping this kid reach his potential.  ALL little league teams have kids with varying level of skills.  The ages in little league range from 8 to 12.  There is a huge difference between 8 and 12 in skill levels.  The poorer performing usually played the minimum of innings as designated by the league.  When I played, it was a min. of 2 innings whether they reached the kids turn at bat or not.  My first two years I did my 2 innings per game, but as I practiced and grew, I played more and more.  And if a better player showed up, I lost my position but played harder to master the new position.  I believe your post has a lot of excuses mixed in it (same as a lot of social issues nowadays), none of which will help improve the ability of the poorer players.  Practice and hard work will.  And stealing accomplishments from a kid on the other team certainly won't make that 1st baseman any better as a ballplayer or a person.

[RoadKill]

Every game should be a tie so no one has to loose. and they should start using imaginary balls so they dont learn to throw things at each other. And those BATS !!  What the hell is up with those bats !!! I dont think children should have ANY weapons at all and you hand them the most phallic weapon of them all and tell them it's ok to swing it around with someone standing behind them wearing 1 giant glove !  If this madness doesnt stop,little Jimmy will spend all his time filling out multiple hurt feelings reports when he should be watching sex and violence on television     

[mtrdrms]

hahaha!  Thats actually an argument strategy called "sarcasm" meant to belittle the opponents way of thinking!   

[G-Man]

I can only relay the story as I heard it, Bobbo.  I did not embellish it at all.  I can't argue that the original teller of the story had an agenda to do so, but the agenda doesn't negate the wrongness of interjecting social justice into chidren's sports. 

I can recall many parents hollering over bad calls, not to the point of ejection from the field, but it was done.  And I also recall games continuing under protest by the coaches when obvious bad calls were made.  We even replayed games from the point of the bad call when protests were found to be warranted. 

I wasn't suggesting that you embellished the story at all, but it sounds like a typical conservative talk show story.  I'm guessing that this is a conservative talk show program...     My point focused on the assumption that a bad call was done for political reasons.  I have witnessed many bad calls by umpires, and most of the time it was due to a combination of inattention and incompetence.  Since Little League umpires are volunteers, you have to take what you get.

Parents booing, or briefly yelling from the stands for a bad call were common, and never resulted in ejection, but if you got onto the field, you were "outta here"!

If an umpire continually made bad calls, the manager could complain to the board.  They would review and get rid of the umpire if too many complaints were filed.

Correct in your assumption and agreed on your points! 

[G-Man]

I don't see this as an argument of semantics and management of a team and I don't think thats what you intended it to be.  Althought maybe you did and I apologize. I see this as an opportunity to debate justice.  Again I will offer a situation:  Lets say the hitter (we'll call him Hitter) in question has been crushing the ball all day.  Just plastering the infield of a far inferior team.  Making them look really bad.  Finally, in the last inning with no chance of losing the game, Hitter smacks one to the unable but well intended second baseman.  Miraculously, the infielder fields a nice ground ball and somehow retrieves the ball from his glove and gets the ball to the first baseman but just a hair too late.  What do you do?  What is the right thing to do?  Who do you best serve by your call and why are all the people involved at this game?  Again this is a hypothetical situation but hopefully reduces the general sweeping assumptions of what is the right thing to do.

Well I think you are right on in the first post about individual accomplishments.  This thread seems to be going the way of utilititarian vs. libertarian.  Are the individual accomplishments of one child more important than the greater good of keeping the game close and giving both teams a chance to win?  I'm not here to argue either side.  However we don't know alot of the story and all to often ignorance and lack of facts leads to hanging someone (in this case a little league umpire).  
I coach and have played baseball and football and can tell you that some games should be lopsided, and some really shouldn't.  Say you've got a really bad first baseman that can't catch the ball.  You can have an all-star infield but they can't keep hits from coming in.  Should they be punished for the first basemans ineptitude?  If we are identifying idividuals for their strengths and weaknesses this can be traumatising for some.  Have you ever had to cheer up the worst kid on the team or keep order within a team of widely varying abilities?  It sucks.  Sometimes equity (not equality) and anonymity are what these kids need.  And please, try not to latch onto the idea that everyone has a socialist or conservative agenda.  It really doesn't apply.

Then change the 1st baseman.  Or, how about this novel idea.....work with the kid on his skills.  The coach, or the kids dad are responsible for helping this kid reach his potential.  ALL little league teams have kids with varying level of skills.  The ages in little league range from 8 to 12.  There is a huge difference between 8 and 12 in skill levels.  The poorer performing usually played the minimum of innings as designated by the league.  When I played, it was a min. of 2 innings whether they reached the kids turn at bat or not.  My first two years I did my 2 innings per game, but as I practiced and grew, I played more and more.  And if a better player showed up, I lost my position but played harder to master the new position.  I believe your post has a lot of excuses mixed in it (same as a lot of social issues nowadays), none of which will help improve the ability of the poorer players.  Practice and hard work will.  And stealing accomplishments from a kid on the other team certainly won't make that 1st baseman any better as a ballplayer or a person.

You should call the game according to the rules!  That is THE ONLY FAIR thing to do.  If I were the second baseman's father, I'd take him out for ice cream and congradulate him on the terrific stop and chalk it up to the kid running fast to first base.  I'd call his uncle to brag about the amazing stop he made.  I'd let him choose between Pizza and McDonalds, I'd muss his hair, hug and kiss him, and tell "You'll get him next time".

"Who is best served" should NEVER even come into play. 

Maybe next year, the more inexperienced team might acquire a better palyer or two while some kids gain skills over the summer and the better team will lose the allstar hitter to the senior league.  It's sports!  It's also spotrsmanship.  Congradulate the winners, console the losers, and practice harder.  Best Served?.....imagine!

[G-Man]

Every game should be a tie so no one has to loose. and they should start using imaginary balls so they dont learn to throw things at each other. And those BATS !!  What the hell is up with those bats !!! I dont think children should have ANY weapons at all and you hand them the most phallic weapon of them all and tell them it's ok to swing it around with someone standing behind them wearing 1 giant glove !  If this madness doesnt stop,little Jimmy will spend all his time filling out multiple hurt feelings reports when he should be watching sex and violence on television     

You always see things so clearly!   

[mtrdrms]

Haha!  Well, points taken gentlemen.  I'm off to ride - something we can all agree upon!  Enjoy the day.

[Bobbo]

Every game should be a tie so no one has to loose.

That's the way the T-ball leagues here are run.  They are for very young kids who have little understanding of competition and different skill levels.  It's mainly to let them get some exercise and learn the basics of team play.

Getting back to the OP, when a bad call happened, I would explain to my son that he knows he won the play, and I know he won the play.  That is all that mattered.  When he lost the play, I would explain he needs to practice or focus more.  That advise wasn't always heeded!  

[The Anvil]

Even in MLB the strike zone is known to expand and contract based on the score, hitter/pitcher etc and it always has. It's reality. Quit whining about it.

[G-Man]

Even in MLB the strike zone is known to expand and contract based on the score, hitter/pitcher etc and it always has. It's reality. Quit whining about it.

In the majors, the strike zone DOES NOT adjust due to the score or pitcher.  This would be too obvious due to television and unacceptable because a player's worth and compensation are based on his stats.  Too much money involved.  The strike zone DOES change from batter to batter due to the height of the player. 

The strike zone is from one side of the plate to the other, this does not change.  From top to bottom is based on the batter's height (knees to nipples, as we used to say, for example).  If this varies (knees to letters, or mid-thigh to nipples, etc.), the "coordinates" must be consistent from batter to batter within the same game.  This is the measurement of a good behind-the-plate Umpire........consistency. 

Of course, umpires are human, that's where the term "protecting the plate" with 2 strikes comes from.  And an umpire being too "human" will not be around very long in the majors.

[The Anvil]

In the majors, the strike zone DOES NOT adjust due to the score or pitcher. 

Yes it absolutely does and it's noted by analysts all the time!

For that matter, makeup calls happen in pretty much every sport. Oh you'll never get them to officially admit it but it happens...

Are you interested in a bridge in Brooklynn? Cuz I'm selling. 

[John Schmidt]

Re. MLB umpiring, quite a few years ago I was watching a game on TV when I noticed a batter come to the plate with black tape on his uniform. The announcers started to laugh about it, apparently he had rec'd. some questionable calls earlier so he was making an obvious statement to the ump. Basically what he did was marked a stripe on himself where the high/low lines were for the strike zone. The ump proceeded to call the first pitch a strike, then asked the batter if he was satisfied. The batter never said a word, just ran the end of his bat way inside to describe the pitch he received. Next pitch he put one over the centerfield fence. As he approached home plate he motioned across himself in the area of the belt then gave the ump the thumbs up. The ump then tossed him, but his calls took a decided turn for the better.... everyone on both teams had been complaining about them. Strangely enough, the batter never said a word during the entire scene, but the ump was very vocal....all the time the batter was just smiling at him.

[Skinhead]

Since Little League umpires are volunteers, you have to take what you get.

Little league umpires are paid in the league my son played in.  Don't know if that is the case everywhere, but this was a local parks and recs little league.

They also played little league football and ours was the dominant team in the league, usually all 3 of our teams (freshman, JV, and Varsity) won the superbowl each year.  This league did have a mercy rule, if one team got up by more than 4 TD's, the other team got the ball on the 20 yd line, rather than having to return a kick off.

[musclehead]

man some of the best memories were from little league, score was always kept and it seemed to me the harder the coach was on us the better we got. we placed second two years running the coach on the first place team was STRICT!

you always learn more when you lose, it just seems like we are trying to insulate our children collectively from disappointments. just remember there is no participation award for life.

[Bobbo]

Since Little League umpires are volunteers, you have to take what you get.

Little league umpires are paid in the league my son played in.  Don't know if that is the case everywhere, but this was a local parks and recs little league.

The official Little League position recommends volunteer umpires, but I guess they can be paid.

[bigvalkriefan]

I have seen this happening more and more in my 27 yrs of coaching at the recreation and city league level. I call it the sissifying of America's youth. Everyone is so concerned about little Johnny's self esteem, his feelings, his "spirit" that they forget about building character.
If you could take a kid from the 1920's thru the 1950's and put them up against a kid from today's era I will bet you that the throw back kid would kick today's kids a$$ in just about every way, sports, education, survival skills whatever. We aren't doing today's kids any favors by being so concerned that the have it easier than we did.

[Moonshot_1]

Umpired ball games at this level for a lot of years using OBR, FED, and Little league rules, (Softball too.)

You are expected to be perfect from your first game and get better after that.

Hard to make a judgement about the umpire without actually being there.
I doubt the intent was to keep the score close. The intent of such calls is to end the massacre and go home. You get a powerhouse team against the worst team in the league, you know how it's gonna go, and when it is obvious that it's a rout, close calls will be made in such a manner to bring the rout to an end.

Ultimately, according to the rules, the game is as it percived by the umpire. His or her judgement calls cannot be questioned or protested. (You can protest misapplication of a specific rule though. Like a batting order rule)


I've made bad calls. I've made calls that were great. I've even made great calls that everyone thought was bad because I was the only one in the position to get the call right. As well as the flip side of that statement.


And in the end the kid learns that even the people who are supposed to be perfect, aren't. And that is a great lesson in itself.

[Bonzo]

Steve Malzberg as a confirmed "birther" would never have a political agenda!

[GiG]

Growing up, I was always a competitive swimmer. During school, and all through the summer, I would get up early and go to practice at 7am (1 mile warm-up followed by sprints and circle-swim, and more). This routine was repeated after school, too, so I put in a lot of hard work. I was pretty good, swam individual medley.
Around 1970, I guess it was, they had the “Summer Olympics” that was open to everyone in the city, with trophies for first place and ribbons for the rest. I entered to compete for trophies. I won all my events, which was not unusual, but what WAS unusual is I had to compete against some kids that did not put in all the hard work that I had. Some of the kids I swam against were not on the swim team.
I collected the trophy for my first place finish in my first event. When I went to collect my trophy for my next event, they would not give it to me. They gave it to the kid that placed 2nd  instead, since I already had a trophy. They gave the kid that did not get up early to work out 5 hours a day my trophy! So some kid got a trophy that read; “1st Place”, even though he did not earn it, while I got nothing to recognize the hard work I put in. That kid knows he did not earn that trophy, and left me bitter that the other kid got my trophy.
That is one shitty lesson to teach youngsters, that the ones that don’t work hard reap the rewards, at the expense of the hard workers. It is a theme I’ve seen repeated endlessly in this country as I’ve grown into adulthood, and I’ve never forgotten. I chose to not enter the "Summer Olympics" any more, since the so-called "1st Place" Trophies were meaningless.

[designer]

I've seen this coming for years, the sissy-facation of our younger generation by the feel good system.  As a company commander at Ft Benning I watched the military join in to get along with the rest of the world.  Things like stress cards, reduced training hours, minimum sleep requirements, no touch, no cuss words, personnel space, etc... it took the Army down a notch from the Marines training.  I've coached my daughters league teams and we have to make sure that those that cant score or serve gets to move closer to the goal or net.  Don't keep score, it might stunt there growth or hurt there feelings.  We've breed a generations of "its good enough" attitudes.  No one needs to excel, its good enough to be average.  Then I hear all the  parents bitch about the foreign children doing better in classes and sports...  In other countries it not good enough to be average and they excel past our children. 

On a good point, average is better then most african countries... glad thier there to help the world average.

[Bobbo]

Then I hear all the  parents bitch about the foreign children doing better in classes and sports...  In other countries it not good enough to be average and they excel past our children. 

On a good point, average is better then most african countries... glad thier there to help the world average.

Your point of today's children doing poorer in school would be taken more seriously if you didn't have glaring misspellings and bad grammar in your post!

[The Anvil]

Then I hear all the  parents bitch about the foreign children doing better in classes and sports...  In other countries it not good enough to be average and they excel past our children. 

On a good point, average is better then most african countries... glad thier there to help the world average.

Your point of today's children doing poorer in school would be taken more seriously if you didn't have glaring misspellings and bad grammar in your post!

[designer]

sorry, I didn't know I was being graded on spelling and grammer on here...   

then again, its just your opinion of how serious I'm taken... and if you have anvil on your side I'm not really concerned.....   

[The Anvil]

sorry, I didn't know I was being graded on spelling and grammer on here...   

then again, its just your opinion of how serious I'm taken... and if you have anvil on your side I'm not really concerned.....   

Are spelling and grammar not part of education?

Most web browsers have spell check. It would seem you have yours disabled.