Progressive Shocks, What a Joke!!!

[Ice]

My OEM shocks finally gave way at 26K miles, so I replaced them with Progressive (416) shocks, well went on a jaunt accross the country (5000 miles) and the left one let go, started leaking and not rebounding. Long story short brought the bike back to Honda and they contacted Progressive, received a hard time from Customer Service, well two and half weeks later still no replacements. So I took the initiative to call progressive, the guy on the other end (Frank) gets smart with me and says well I cant give birth to the parts... They will not refund the shocks and do not care that I am totally unsatisfied with their product. He actually asked me why I did not keep my old shocks???? I told him that when I purchase a replacement product that is supposed to be brand new I do not expect that I need to keep the worn out parts, and he said to me that that was my fault for not thinking, I flipped my lid.
I do not reccomend that you do business with Progressive, worst shocks I ever had and the absolute worst customer service I have ever seen.
Its up to you what you do but I am now looking to sell these shocks once I get the replacements in about a month or so, and go back to OEM's
Well thats my rant for the day.....

[Medic]

Cant say anything about their air shocks. I replaced my OEM's with a gently used air of Progressive 412 HD's and have been very happy. The customer service experience you had would have made my mind up for me also though as far as future purchases go.

[franco6]

shooks had to respond! were the 416 properly loaded withe the right amount and specific oil?
were all connections tight? grease  tubes and o rings with mobil one (LOL ,Hay Hauler.) synthetic grease to assure a leak free operation. were they over inflated and or  over loaded?(no more than 70 psi).
I can go three months without checking at 51 psi. more when loaded, 60 psi .some ride them at 35 psi .some like them, some don t!

[Jabba]

I like my Works shocks better than my progressive 440 HD's.  

But you're customer service experience is bad.  But one disgruntled employee does not a whole bad company make...

I have had bad days before... that doesn't mean my whole company is bad.  From a customer service POV, if they can't get the parts... they can't get the parts.  He's right... they can't CRAP them.  And I am not saying this about YOU, but a lot of people would not take that as an answer, and keep pushing.  You might have been the 15th person in a row of 14 unreasonable ones before you.

Now all this might NOT be true too, and everyone at Progressive might be complete cockwads.

Jabba

[Fudd]

the guy on the other end (Frank) gets smart with me and says well I cant give birth to the parts...

While he may not be able to "give birth to the parts,"  he sure could shove them up his a.........well, you get the point.

[Ice]

I like my Works shocks better than my progressive 440 HD's.  

But you're customer service experience is bad.  But one disgruntled employee does not a whole bad company make...

I have had bad days before... that doesn't mean my whole company is bad.  From a customer service POV, if they can't get the parts... they can't get the parts.  He's right... they can't CRAP them.  And I am not saying this about YOU, but a lot of people would not take that as an answer, and keep pushing.  You might have been the 15th person in a row of 14 unreasonable ones before you.

Now all this might NOT be true too, and everyone at Progressive might be complete cockwads.

Jabba

Jabba, I would agree with you if it had not been for my dealership trying to get service from them for two weeks prior. And no I do not expect anyone to $h1t parts, but I gurantee, if you called them and needed a set of shocks they would be in the mail by the AM. These folks seem not to give a rats a$$ about thier customers. If I sell you a product that is supposed to be superior to your OEM and it fails immediately after install I will do everything in my power to make sure you are happy not be a total a$$ to the dealer and customer...

[Jabba]

Jabba, I would agree with you if it had not been for my dealership trying to get service from them for two weeks prior. And no I do not expect anyone to $h1t parts, but I gurantee, if you called them and needed a set of shocks they would be in the mail by the AM. These folks seem not to give a rats a$$ about thier customers. If I sell you a product that is supposed to be superior to your OEM and it fails immediately after install I will do everything in my power to make sure you are happy not be a total a$$ to the dealer and customer...

I'm there dude.  I have not LOVED my progressive shocks.  I have had them for almost 8 years now though.  I like the Works shocks a lot better.

Jabba

[dalai-lama]

I like my Works shocks better than my progressive 440 HD's.  

I had the 440's and they would bottom out over compression dips.  I went with Works and all is better.  Not saying that the 440's were bad, just that they did not work for me.

the dalai

[sugerbear]

everybody can have a bad day, BUT, everybody has a supervisor, all the way up to owner.

[Ice]

everybody can have a bad day, BUT, everybody has a supervisor, all the way up to owner.

The sad part is getting a hold of anyone, even the operator has a voice mail, trust me I am not done with them yet, but I think I am pissing in the wind in all honesty...but I am not one that easily gives up..

[G-Man]

the guy on the other end (Frank) gets smart with me and says well I cant give birth to the parts...

While he may not be able to "give birth to the parts,"  he sure could shove them up his a.........well, you get the point.

LOL!  Now THAT'S Funny

[solo1]

Wow! Things must have gone to hell in a handbasket.  We've used Progressive 412's on all our bikes with no problem.  Also, the few times that i called, good service and good response.

[PAVALKER]

My OEM shocks finally gave way at 26K miles,

What do you mean your OEM shocks finally gave way at 26K???  Were they leaking, broken or ???

I have heard quite a few bad things about Progressive shocks, based on others experiences of course, but nothing bad about their fork springs (which I installed on the VTX and Valk).  My stock shocks are fine tho and I have not heard of any stock shock failures to speak of.

[DFragn]

My OEM shocks finally gave way at 26K miles, so I replaced them with Progressive (416) shocks, well went on a jaunt accross the country (5000 miles) and the left one let go, started leaking and not rebounding. Long story short brought the bike back to Honda and they contacted Progressive, received a hard time from Customer Service, well two and half weeks later still no replacements. So I took the initiative to call progressive, the guy on the other end (Frank) gets smart with me and says well I cant give birth to the parts... They will not refund the shocks and do not care that I am totally unsatisfied with their product. He actually asked me why I did not keep my old shocks???? I told him that when I purchase a replacement product that is supposed to be brand new I do not expect that I need to keep the worn out parts, and he said to me that that was my fault for not thinking, I flipped my lid.
I do not reccomend that you do business with Progressive, worst shocks I ever had and the absolute worst customer service I have ever seen.
Its up to you what you do but I am now looking to sell these shocks once I get the replacements in about a month or so, and go back to OEM's
Well thats my rant for the day.....

Well, if your looking for opinions on your experience that's not fair to us.
You haven't mentioned what your end of the conversation with Frank was. Is it possible you were a little heavy handed with him? What were your expectations when you placed the call. Were your shocks still under warranty or were you only looking for repair parts, with costs to you, to DIY or by your dealer? Do you qualify for replacements [warranty]? Your post suggests you feel you are owed.

Sorry, but is it possible you have a tendency to overload your bike? After all, the OEM's should be quite able to take much more than 26k miles. Could the same conditions that apparently caused the early demise of the OEM's be responsible for blowing an o-ring or two in the 416's?

The way I see it...Frank either needs to be reprimanded or fired Or you need to take a step back and review if it's possible that you pushed Frank to react the way you say he did.

No one I know that has dealt with progressive has had you experience, including me.
3 years after purchasing their 440HD's (Life Time Warranty) one began to leak. I called for my return authorization and over-nighted at my expense, they pay shipping one-way! I had that one shock in my hands 3 days later. That's Chicago to California!

The following year the other one began to leak. Customer Service asked me to ship them both back! I asked why, he said we'll rebuild them both for you!!! That included load testing the springs. They didn't need to do that nor did I expect it. They cam back looking like new and I'm sure they were mine due to a center-punch in each for my visual adjustments.

It's all about how a customer handles themselves with the initial call to a Customer Service Dept..
You can trap more bears with honey...or sumpthin like that.

One person is going to have a difficult time swaying others to Boycott a company' product.
Obviously, I can't be swayed with regard to Progressive. Not even if I disliked a particular shock I may of purchased.

[DFragn]

I like my Works shocks better than my progressive 440 HD's.  

I had the 440's and they would bottom out over compression dips.  I went with Works and all is better.  Not saying that the 440's were bad, just that they did not work for me.

the dalai

Perhaps the 440 HD's would have suited you better initially [nothing against Works]. That's what I have [440HD's]. Combined [Joanne & Myself] weigh in at 315#'s. She rides her own so for short rides I don't adjust the HD's. They're a little springy with both of us but haven't bottomed ever and that's at their lowest [softest setting]. And the RR tracks 'round here are terrible and I hit them a little too fast on occasion.

Glad your happy with the Works.

[The Anvil]

Even the best of companies can have careless people working there. In my own dealings with Progressive they've been pretty good. But this is why companies hate this kind of thing. People rarely take the time to post about positive CS experiences but when you piss someone off, boy will they tell everyone!

Of course when I was in CS (or what passed for it) I had to deal with plenty of unreasonable customers. Once in a while you make the decision that if your company's reputation is strong enough that maybe you're better off without that customer. I've fired more than a few customers.

[fudgie]

Well he coulda said 'let us send you a new one and send the bad one back.' How hard would that have been Frank? Aren't they under warrenty?

[KW]

I don’t care for ‘Progressives.’ They’re unreliable, unpredictable and inconsistent (I don’t like the ‘shocks’ either for that matter – HAHA!)

All kidding aside; I think most people who run progressives like them, so that means something. I have ‘Works’ on my 99 Standard and like them much better than either of the popular progressives, but the ‘Works’ are not ‘all that.’ What they are is a decent, though overpriced, shock that are better for a big fat guy like me than the stock shocks. They custom make them for each order. I originally ran a set of Interstate shocks on my bike since almost the first day and they were a BIG improvement over the Standard shock, but even they wore out. . . Go figure. 

I shared my experience with a popular motorcycle parts vendor (not a VRCC sponsor) a few years ago. It was a nightmare dealing with this company and all I did was say what happened. I never saw such hatred explode as I did in the aftermath of that posting. It was almost like I questioned someone putting a "CT" on a bike! There's no more certain way to start a flame on the site! 

I guess what I’m saying is; It’s not surprising that grown adults have differencing opinions, but it just seems we’re all turning into our ‘own brand’ of kool-aid drinkers (myself included, of course!) All of us are just so SURE we’re right . . .  about everything. You see it here on EVERY topic. Until just 2 weeks ago, I would’ve said “nearly” every topic, believing at least ALL of us agreed on the dependability of Valkyries, but recently a member (he says he owns a Valk) said they were less reliable than – UGH – Harleys! WHAT?!? 

SO. . . “it is what it is. . . ”

[The Anvil]

Until just 2 weeks ago, I would’ve said “nearly” every topic, believing at least ALL of us agreed on the dependability of Valkyries, but recently a member (he says he owns a Valk) said they were less reliable than – UGH – Harleys! WHAT?!?  

And still, nobody's come up with any proof otherwise. Just opinions based on misconceptions and hearsay. But it is what it is.  

I love the passive-aggressive "(he says he owns a Valk)" comment too. Just man up and say it if you think I'm lying. Don't bitch out.

[RoadKill]

Until just 2 weeks ago, I would’ve said “nearly” every topic, believing at least ALL of us agreed on the dependability of Valkyries, but recently a member (he says he owns a Valk) said they were less reliable than – UGH – Harleys! WHAT?!?  

And still, nobody's come up with any proof otherwise. Just opinions based on misconceptions and hearsay. But it is what it is.  

I love the passive-aggressive "(he says he owns a Valk)" comment too. Just man up and say it if you think I'm lying. Don't bitch out.

There is no proof to satisfy you, Your experience has been different and you will hear no other. Even if some of us have 3x the miles in 1/2 the years on twice the number of cycles...you are right and we is wrong. God help us when Anvil is King, and ,God protect him when I am !   

[BigAl]

58,000 miles on my Stock Interstate Shocks.

No problems.

I think I will look for used stock shocks when these give out.

Wonder what kind DDT ues?


Heres to the stockers.

[KW]

“Passive aggressive?” You learn that term in Community College? Willow frowns, correctly so, on name calling. . . .  but since YOU asked and I’m merely answering, maybe he’ll grant an exception.

So, in answer your question; “no, I don’t think you’re a liar”. . . . I already told you what I though, but you said I was wrong. I think you’re a boy. .  . .  and most likely, based on your “Harley’s are more dependable” remarks, someone who talks a better game than they play.

By the way. . . no one can ever ‘man up’ in front of a computer screen from a 1000 miles away. For example you, Mr. Anvil, can posture all you want. Noting can put you in check and you feel safe as you sit in front of your computer screen hammering out insults towards this group both individually and as a group. However, should you ever meet the men here at the VRCC you commonly degrade with impunity via the intranet; I suspect it would be a far different story.

I’ll leave defining what a “bitch” is up to you. . . .

How’s that?

[RoadKill]

“Passive aggressive?” You learn that term in Community College? Willow frowns, correctly so, on name calling. . . .  but since YOU asked and I’m merely answering, maybe he’ll grant an exception.

So, in answer your question; “no, I don’t think you’re a liar”. . . . I already told you what I though, but you said I was wrong. I think you’re a boy. .  . .  and most likely, based on your “Harley’s are more dependable” remarks, someone who talks a better game than they play.

By the way. . . no one can ever ‘man up’ in front of a computer screen from a 1000 miles away. For example you, Mr. Anvil, can posture all you want. Noting can put you in check and you feel safe as you sit in front of your computer screen hammering out insults towards this group both individually and as a group. However, should you ever meet the men here at the VRCC you commonly degrade with impunity via the intranet; I suspect it would be a far different story.

I’ll leave defining what a “bitch” is up to you. . . .

How’s that?

Come on KW,your post was insulting and he struck back. Fair is fair even if he is WRONG ! 

[RoadKill]

All I am hearing here is ' OUCH, My Valkyrie is not smooth .... OH ,it burns when I pee ,  why did they cancel Dallas ? BOO HOO, this porridge is too cold and this porridge is too hot !   

Sommers Eve makes a fine product and so do many other hygiene specialists.   USE SOME and the GO RIDE !   

[Grumpy]

All I am hearing here is ' OUCH, My Valkyrie is not smooth .... OH ,it burns when I pee ,  why did they cancel Dallas ? BOO HOO, this porridge is too cold and this porridge is too hot !   

Sommers Eve makes a fine product and so do many other hygiene specialists.   USE SOME and the GO RIDE !   

I agree, sounds like a bunch of 5 year olds fighting over who gets to ride shot gun.  Oh well, I guess that is how some get their jollies, stirring the pot.

[MarkT]

Been running the same pair of 416's about 12 years now.  Rebuilt them once with their kit, and bought another kit expecting to do it again.  Now the right one needs it again, left holds air OK.  In about 100k miles.  They aren't the best shocks for all situations, but they have worked OK for me.  Very cushy ride, I match the preload exactly to the weight onboard, so I'm in the middle of a very large, soft range.  Cushiest ride of all of my vehicles.  With my onboard air, I can dial up the preload at speed, before I hit a known, suspension bottoming bump ahead, or before I enter the twisties and want a stiffer and higher suspension.  The 416's also can have their compression rate and total load capacity adjusted, by how much ATF fluid you put in them.  So I've been happy with them - and no complaints on the company either.  But I haven't needed much from them.  Just a couple rebuild kits in a dozen years.  No problems or complaints on the Progressive fork springs I installed about 10 years ago, either.

[MacDragon]

I put the 412s on the back and have the Progressive fork springs in.   I think it's an excellent ride and haven't had a problem.  Of course, I'm only 5'8" on a good day... and 175 lbs. 

[Jabba]

I have 440 HD's on my standard.  I weigh 325.  They are a little harsh.  I put them on my IS for a bit... and they did not handle me, my SO let alone gear.  So I got the Works shocks for that app. 

I shipped my stock std shocks down the road to a buddy 8 years ago.  I kept the stock IS shocks.

I am happy with both the Progressive and the Works.  I have had no customer service issues with either.

Jabba

[KW]

RK, I’m ‘ok’ with my original post.  All I was saying is “A guy said this and he even said he owned a Valk. . .”  I was indeed expressing my disbelief that anyone who ‘said’ they owned a Valk would label it as unreliable. It’s ridiculous and unbelievable.  Anyone reading this can decide for themselves.

As far as my other response saying I thought Anvil was a boy, he asked if I thought he was lying and I answered, but hijacking the thread was way out of line. I was wrong

People are just too sensitive these days.  A guy called me a ‘fatass’ here a few weeks ago. I didn’t respond because I thought it was funny and, of course, technically correct so how could I get my feelings hurt?  It amazes me how people feel free to ‘fire away’ over the internet though. That was my other point. I’m guilty as well, but I’m also certain I would say in anything I type in person. I’m not so certain some of these young bomb throwers would /could do the same. What do you think?

That’s all.

Peace

PS – Just a side bar on the original topic; I had a Progressive Rep at Daytona Bike Week tell me they couldn’t build a heavy enough shock for me.  This would have been in. . . 2002 I think. Nice guy. He recommended Works. I only had the Progressive’s on for about 500 miles.

[The Anvil]

All I am hearing here is ' OUCH, My Valkyrie is not smooth .... OH ,it burns when I pee ,  why did they cancel Dallas ? BOO HOO, this porridge is too cold and this porridge is too hot !   

Sommers Eve makes a fine product and so do many other hygiene specialists.   USE SOME and the GO RIDE !   

They canceled Dallas!  ???

[cutter]

+1 with BigAl on those stockers  210000 miles on mine!  wheel bearings included...

[Ice]

My OEM shocks finally gave way at 26K miles, so I replaced them with Progressive (416) shocks, well went on a jaunt accross the country (5000 miles) and the left one let go, started leaking and not rebounding. Long story short brought the bike back to Honda and they contacted Progressive, received a hard time from Customer Service, well two and half weeks later still no replacements. So I took the initiative to call progressive, the guy on the other end (Frank) gets smart with me and says well I cant give birth to the parts... They will not refund the shocks and do not care that I am totally unsatisfied with their product. He actually asked me why I did not keep my old shocks???? I told him that when I purchase a replacement product that is supposed to be brand new I do not expect that I need to keep the worn out parts, and he said to me that that was my fault for not thinking, I flipped my lid.
I do not reccomend that you do business with Progressive, worst shocks I ever had and the absolute worst customer service I have ever seen.
Its up to you what you do but I am now looking to sell these shocks once I get the replacements in about a month or so, and go back to OEM's
Well thats my rant for the day.....

Well, if your looking for opinions on your experience that's not fair to us.
You haven't mentioned what your end of the conversation with Frank was. Is it possible you were a little heavy handed with him? What were your expectations when you placed the call. Were your shocks still under warranty or were you only looking for repair parts, with costs to you, to DIY or by your dealer? Do you qualify for replacements [warranty]? Your post suggests you feel you are owed.

Sorry, but is it possible you have a tendency to overload your bike? After all, the OEM's should be quite able to take much more than 26k miles. Could the same conditions that apparently caused the early demise of the OEM's be responsible for blowing an o-ring or two in the 416's?

The way I see it...Frank either needs to be reprimanded or fired Or you need to take a step back and review if it's possible that you pushed Frank to react the way you say he did.

No one I know that has dealt with progressive has had you experience, including me.
3 years after purchasing their 440HD's (Life Time Warranty) one began to leak. I called for my return authorization and over-nighted at my expense, they pay shipping one-way! I had that one shock in my hands 3 days later. That's Chicago to California!

The following year the other one began to leak. Customer Service asked me to ship them both back! I asked why, he said we'll rebuild them both for you!!! That included load testing the springs. They didn't need to do that nor did I expect it. They cam back looking like new and I'm sure they were mine due to a center-punch in each for my visual adjustments.

It's all about how a customer handles themselves with the initial call to a Customer Service Dept..
You can trap more bears with honey...or sumpthin like that.

One person is going to have a difficult time swaying others to Boycott a company' product.
Obviously, I can't be swayed with regard to Progressive. Not even if I disliked a particular shock I may of purchased.

I am not looking for opinions nor sympathy, I was just letting everyone here know what kind of piss poor experience I had with dealing with Progressive, prior to buying the shock I even asked here what people thought of them and received positive reviews. So after having issues with the product and my Dealer getting the run around, I decided to call them myself and see what the hang up was, well you have read my experience with Progressive.
With regards to the shocks, my OEM rears started bottoming out at 26K miles, so I upped the load and still they bottomed out, it was a sudden thing, so prior to my big trip I ordered new shocks. And  regarding the question to the OEM's failure (??) I ride hard and I have ridden all over the world, so maybe with the amount of hard use, they gave way earlier, I do not know, all I know is they did.
I do not claim to be a mechanic or all knowing, I only expect that when I purchase a new product to replace something that has broken or worn out, I expect it to work, and when it does not and I go to ask questions of the issues, I do not expect to be treated like $hit which I was. Believe it or not I called back last night and spoke with the operator and explained my situation to her and requested to speak to his supervisor, of all things he came back on the phone and told me he is the supervisor and there was no one else I can complain to.
All in all progressive is going to repair the shocks and I will be selling them, as I told Frank, I no longer have confidence in their product and I cannot ride when I do not trust the products on my bike.
As I said in the beginning I do not want anyones sympathy or such, I just thought I would share my piss poor experience with the folks here at the VRCC, you are the people I trust and rely on for information, so if I have something that I think of value, I will share with the crowd. That does not preclude you from continuing doing business with Progressive if you are happy with them, it is just a notice from me that I was treated like crap and did not appreciate it. Maybe it will make others think, how was his experience and will I be treated differently...

[R J]

Wow! Things must have gone to hell in a handbasket.  We've used Progressive 412's on all our bikes with no problem.  Also, the few times that i called, good service and good response.

I'm with Wayne on this one.

My old shocks would bottom out with my lard ass and the wife on MGM with them set on 5.

My birthday was coming up and the kids went together and bought me a set of progressive, HD spring type.    They were on MGM almost 2 years, and I noticed one was leaking.

Gave them a call, they sent me a RA #, for their return.   Sent them in, about 2 or 3 weeks later here came the big Brown truck with the driver dressed in shorts, and tan in all exposed areas.  Damn she was cute.

Put them back on, then found the note that said they had been rebuilt.   Set them on 3 and have never bottomed out ever again.    This was like 100K miles ago.

Super service and way more than helpful.      They answered questions, were very polite and etc etc.

I have always been the firm believer that the tone of voice you use at the beginning is how you will be treated......   Anyway, works for me.....

[Ice]

Wow! Things must have gone to hell in a handbasket.  We've used Progressive 412's on all our bikes with no problem.  Also, the few times that i called, good service and good response.

I have always been the firm believer that the tone of voice you use at the beginning is how you will be treated......   Anyway, works for me.....

Well I guess it must be me, from what I am reading here, I must have called and acted like a total a$$. In one sense I wish I would have then Prgressive would have been justified for acting they way they did when a customer calls up to find out what is going on.
Neither here nor there, I wanted to let the good folks here know of my experience that is all, but I guess that since this has not been experienced before (???) I must be the cause of my treatment. I just hope that no one else has that type of experience when asking questions about a product, since it must be you that caused the problem....

[9Ball]

Wow! Things must have gone to hell in a handbasket.  We've used Progressive 412's on all our bikes with no problem.  Also, the few times that i called, good service and good response.

I have always been the firm believer that the tone of voice you use at the beginning is how you will be treated......   Anyway, works for me.....

Well I guess it must be me, from what I am reading here, I must have called and acted like a total a$$. In one sense I wish I would have then Prgressive would have been justified for acting they way they did when a customer calls up to find out what is going on.
Neither here nor there, I wanted to let the good folks here know of my experience that is all, but I guess that since this has not been experienced before (???) I must be the cause of my treatment. I just hope that no one else has that type of experience when asking questions about a product, since it must be you that caused the problem....

They could have handled the situation better in my opinion, based solely on what you have posted.

My only comment is that I believe you bought the wrong shocks...I know the 440s seem very expensive, but you really do get what you pay for.  I would not have chosen the model you did, but that's just me.  Not meant as a flame or a derogatory statement towards you, only how I feel.

My experience with them has only included getting new bushings for my now 11 YO 440s (they were 6 or 7 YO when the bushings went bad)...which they sent for free, but that was about 4 or 5 years ago when Larry was still with them.  He was the "go to" guy and I imagine things are not as good there since he left.

Good luck with the sale...

[Jack]

Don't worry, guys.  The new Dallas is coming on this fall and, yes, JR and Booby, uh Bobby, will appear as well.  Personally hoping Charlene Tilton isn't on the new one.
As for shocks, I still have the oem after 12 years.

[Valkernaut]

Same here. 100k and my I/S still rides like a jolt wagon....

[The Anvil]

I was indeed expressing my disbelief that anyone who ‘said’ they owned a Valk would label it as unreliable. It’s ridiculous and unbelievable.  Anyone reading this can decide for themselves.

I never said that Valks were "unreliable" 

[PhredValk]

Stock IS shocks on my mostly stock 99 IS. I can count the times I've bottomed out in the year and a half (20k+miles) I've owned her on one hand; even with the 205/65 Falken car tire. Set on 3, I believe, and I'm 280, with tools and such in the bags all the time (I never seem to empty them when in town).

I doubt I'd want anything else on the rear end of this bike, though I think I would like Progressive springs up front.
Fred.

[Mr Steve]

I like the Works shocks a lot better.

+1