Nasty message from Chet Walters of Rattlebars.

[bscrive]

I received this message from Chet Walters:

"Hi

I understand that I cannot prevent you from stealing a design. However, I do believe I have avenues to pursue a Trademark violation on the name KickShifter........

Even though you are a thief, have the decency to change the name at least.  Or is there no honor up there either.

Chet Walters
Rattlebars Mfg. LLC"

I do see his point.  There was a lot of work put in for the R&D for the shifter.  I was not trying to profit from helping out fellow Valkyrie riders.  Also, I never tried to put this across as being my design.  But he does seem really pee'd off.  So, I guess I will have take the pictures down.

I live in Canada so his threat of litigation does not bother me but he could have just asked nice and not be an a$$ about it.  I would have removed it or he could have just asked Willow to remove it I guess.

As a word to Chet:  Make some more, obviously there is still a market for it.

[GiG]

Typical Chet. 
He has no interest in making them. 
You should go ahead, change the design slightly, call it something else. 
There is a market for them.

[Tundra]

Chets been good to me I'm thankful for his efforts and contributions. Maybe this should be communicated between the two of you and not hung out here in public?

[DFragn]

I received this message from Chet Walters:

"Hi

I understand that I cannot prevent you from stealing a design. However, I do believe I have avenues to pursue a Trademark violation on the name KickShifter........

Even though you are a thief, have the decency to change the name at least.  Or is there no honor up there either.

Chet Walters
Rattlebars Mfg. LLC"

I do see his point.  There was a lot of work put in for the R&D for the shifter.  I was not trying to profit from helping out fellow Valkyrie riders.  Also, I never tried to put this across as being my design.  But he does seem really pee'd off.  So, I guess I will have take the pictures down.

I live in Canada so his threat of litigation does not bother me but he could have just asked nice and not be an a$$ about it.  I would have removed it or he could have just asked Willow to remove it I guess.

As a word to Chet:  Make some more, obviously there is still a market for it.

There's nothing nasty about his letter.
The Trademark is his property, he owns it. You may not have kicked down his front door, but it's still theft.
Apparently, he must not of patented his design. Even so, Trademark infringement and product design is his and does amount to theft. Sans product patent, he can do nothing. The name however ya best change.

I hold several Registrations, Trademarks & many Copyrights. His letter is cordial compared to what my attorney or I would present to a Thief.

Been waiting to see what happened here since you originally posted (boasted) your thievery.

To be cool about it. Change the name & the design and make it your own. You'll feel better, or not.

[BigAl]

Say Hi to my Uncle Chet.

AL

[The Anvil]

I can see being bent about taking the name but if Chet has no interest in or plans to make more in the future and someone wants one then I don't see a dig deal with people making their own.

What's his story anyway? I get the impression (that could be entirely wrong) that he's just a tinkerer who occasionally makes some stuff for sale to the public and really isn't all that business savvy.

[MP]

How can he have a tradmarked name "kickshifter", when there are LOTS of designs for all kinds of mc's that use that same name?  Seems generic to me.

Go to google, and just type in  "kickshifter".

There are some that do not pertain, but on my first page of results I got six (6) different results for kickshifter pertaining to mc shifters. I did not even go to the 2nd page.

So, are they ALL violating his rights???  Does he have trademark protection, or just start using the name?  If he did, he better get his lawyers going, as he will get rich suing all the others.

MP

[bscrive]

Well, I did a search on the US and Canadian Patents & Trademarks database to see if 'KickShifter' was trademarked or patented and I could not find any. 

It seems that he did not protect his design or wording.

As it turns out, here in Canada, it is the first to file for a patent.  So, if Chet is not going to make any more than maybe I should trademark the name and file for a patent here in Canada.  Just Kidding.

Sorry again Chet, I did not mean to hurt anyone or "steal" your idea and I will not send any templates out to anyone.

[The Anvil]

Sorry again Chet, I did not mean to hurt anyone or "steal" your idea and I will not send any templates out to anyone.

Well I for one see no reason why you shouldn't. He ain't making them and people want them.

[BamaDrifter64]

Let me see if I have this right...a person made some cool things for a motorcycle that is no longer made....that person quit making those products for the people who love those motorcycles that are no longer made....those people who love those motorcycles that are no longer made still seek those cool things which that person made who has decided to quit making them....one of those persons who loves those motorcycles that are no longer made looks into making one of those cool things for the motorcycle that is no longer made and offers to sell them to the other people who loves those motorcycles which are no longer made....the person who made those cool things for the motorcycle that is no longer made, who has no patent or trademark on the cool thing and decided to quit making those cool things, gets his panties in a wad and calls the person who has looked into making the cool thing for the motorcycle that is no longer made and who has offered to sell it to the people who love the motorcycle that is no longer made and who want the cool thing a thief although the person who made the cool thing doesn't want to make any more....simple enough!  

Dave

[BigChris99]

Let me see if I have this right...a person made some cool things for a motorcycle that is no longer made....that person quit making those products for the people who love those motorcycles that are no longer made....those people who love those motorcycles that are no longer made still seek those cool things which that person made who has decided to quit making them....one of those persons who loves those motorcycles that are no longer made looks into making one of those cool things for the motorcycle that is no longer made and offers to sell them to the other people who loves those motorcycles which are no longer made....the person who made those cool things for the motorcycle that is no longer made, who has no patent or trademark on the cool thing and decided to quit making those cool things, gets his panties in a wad and calls the person who has looked into making the cool thing for the motorcycle that is no longer made and who has offered to sell it to the people who love the motorcycle that is no longer made and who want the cool thing a thief although the person who made the cool thing doesn't want to make any more....simple enough!  

Dave

Exactly!........I thinkjavascript:void(0);

[bscrive]

To clear things up,

I was not making them,  I was just emailing templates of the shifter I made out to the members.  I did base mine off a picture I got off google images.  I was not making any money off anything.  His big beef seem to be that I used the name 'KickShifter' which he said was trademarked, but if you go on the Rattlebars site it says that 'Kick Shift' is TM.  It is not, I checked.  By the way RattleBars MFG was not TM'd either.

[MacDragon]

To clear things up,

I was not making them,  I was just emailing templates of the shifter I made out to the members.  I did base mine off a picture I got off google images.  I was not making any money off anything.  His big beef seem to be that I used the name 'KickShifter' which he said was trademarked, but if you go on the Rattlebars site it says that 'Kick Shift' is TM.  It is not, I checked.  By the way RattleBars MFG was not TM'd either.

Seems to me that if you went and Trademarked "Kickshifter" and "Rattlebars MFG"  he'd reallllly get rattled...

[czuch]

Kickshifter for a Henderson, anyone?
Loser,Fdragon
Winner, Valkyrie community.
Make em Chet, or stand back.
Capatalism is a beautiful thing. Bamadrifter "gets it".

[BF]

I wonder why Chet retired and shut down the site?  Was he just tired of it and quit the business....or did his business slow down to the point that he didn't think it worth-while anymore.  Either way, there's a couple products of his that I'd reeeeeealy like to purchase if he was still making them. 

[The Anvil]

To clear things up,

I was not making them,  I was just emailing templates of the shifter I made out to the members.  I did base mine off a picture I got off google images.  I was not making any money off anything.  His big beef seem to be that I used the name 'KickShifter' which he said was trademarked, but if you go on the Rattlebars site it says that 'Kick Shift' is TM.  It is not, I checked.  By the way RattleBars MFG was not TM'd either.

Yeah not all that business savvy I guess.

[BamaDrifter64]

To clear things up,

I was not making them,  I was just emailing templates of the shifter I made out to the members.  I did base mine off a picture I got off google images.  I was not making any money off anything.  His big beef seem to be that I used the name 'KickShifter' which he said was trademarked, but if you go on the Rattlebars site it says that 'Kick Shift' is TM.  It is not, I checked.  By the way RattleBars MFG was not TM'd either.

Hmmmmm...where is that "truth in advertising"?  Perhaps a little fraudulent and misleading advertising?   

Dave

[Dave Ritsema]

X2 

Chets been good to me I'm thankful for his efforts and contributions. Maybe this should be communicated between the two of you and not hung out here in public?

[Serk]

To clear things up,

I was not making them,  I was just emailing templates of the shifter I made out to the members.  I did base mine off a picture I got off google images.  I was not making any money off anything.  His big beef seem to be that I used the name 'KickShifter' which he said was trademarked, but if you go on the Rattlebars site it says that 'Kick Shift' is TM.  It is not, I checked.  By the way RattleBars MFG was not TM'd either.

Hmmmmm...where is that "truth in advertising"?  Perhaps a little fraudulent and misleading advertising?   

Dave

I'm too lazy to track down his site and see which symbol he used, but if he just used TM or the ™ symbol, then it's okay, that just means you're claiming the common law trademark to something. If he used the ® symbol, then it'd be fradulent, as that symbol is reserved for those who have officially registered their trademark with the USPTO.

Splitting hairs, I know, but wanted to make sure the distinction was understood.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

[Dave Ritsema]

I can see being bent about taking the name but if Chet has no interest in or plans to make more in the future and someone wants one then I don't see a dig deal with people making their own.

What's his story anyway? I get the impression (that could be entirely wrong) that he's just a tinkerer who occasionally makes some stuff for sale to the public and really isn't all that business savvy.

Since you are a newbie to this site and the Valkyrie, I will temper my response. Your “impression” is far beyond incorrect regarding Chet. He was a strong supporter of both the Valkyrie motorcycle and the VRCC. He wrote numerous tech articles, and pioneered a multitude of quality Valkyrie specific products that many, many people raved about. His Kickshifter is just but one of them. I have nearly every Rattlebars product ever made on my Valkyrie and they all look and operate as good as the day I installed them.

I don't know why he quit making them but it is my guess that it was due to slowing sales to the point it was no longer practical. I saw nothing in that letter (that in my opinion should not have been made public, but rather kept between the two parties) other than Chet defending what was rightfully his. Had the name not been used I am guessing it would not have been that big of a deal.

As for the demand being there, perhaps Chet decided there was not enough to be justify the effort. Should someone be willing to take on that risk and fill that need, I certainly hope they would talk to Chet privately and try to make some arrangement that was agreeable to all parties. 

[Oss]

I am with Dave on this one

Has anyone contacted chet to see if he would license the design etc on a per unit produced basis

That way the original design and specs are followed and everyone wins

just askin, otherwise if he hasnt trademarked or registered its just sour grapes
no harm and no foul

But thats just my 2c and worth less

[Michael K (Az.)]

I also have many Rattlebars products on my bike. Dave R. is correct in his assessment of Chet's contributions to this site and Valkyries in general. If I remember correctly, Chet had some health issues around the same time I had a quad bypass,(that's why I remember), and that contributed to his slowing down the Rattlebars business.

[tank_post142]

Chet posted the exact wording a few days ago on the tread pertaining to the shifter design. so it was made public prior to this, by Chet himself . he would have a hard time in court as i had a new 1982 goldwing  with a similar shifter mounted on it (commercially made) with a logo naming it "kickshifter" engraved in the side. this was sold by jc whitney in the late 70s and early 80s, long before the valk existed and Chet started producing his shifter. i can only assume Chet just copied this design and took it for his own.

[MP]

Chet posted the exact wording a few days ago on the tread pertaining to the shifter design. so it was made public prior to this, by Chet himself . he would have a hard time in court as i had a new 1982 goldwing  with a similar shifter mounted on it (commercially made) with a logo naming it "kickshifter" engraved in the side. this was sold by jc whitney in the late 70s and early 80s, long before the valk existed and Chet started producing his shifter. i can only assume Chet just copied this design and took it for his own.

That is correct.  Chet is the first one to post on here about it.  So, Chet made it public.  There are LOTS of Kickshifter names out there.

I love what Chet has done for the Valk.  MANY things.  He deserves all our respect.  However, on this one thing, I think it is a stretch to go there.

MP

[bscrive]

Wow....and he called me a thief.  Glass house come to mind.

[Chiefy]

Well, the OP was sending out templates.  Perhaps (??) wrong legally.  Doesn't seem like he was trying to be a "thief."   OTOH, I can't think of a good reason  why he thought he had to post that email here in public. 

But I can't blame Chet for being upset that something he designed was  being copied.  The fact that he closed down his business is not relevant.  I can't imagine that anyone can't see how an inventor/rights owner would want to hold onto his product.  It's his device, and no one should be able to sell it without paying royalties or buying the license. 

It's a real shame that stuff has to be  patented and trademarked to prevent it from being stolen.

[Michael K (Az.)]

For all you newer members, Chet has a good amount of info on the Valkyrie if you'd be interested in increasing your knowledge. It can't hurt!

http://www.rattlebars.com/

[The Anvil]

The fact that he closed down his business is not relevant. 

Well in this instance it matters because noone was trying to manufacture and distribute anything other than a pattern. Chet was losing nothing since he doesn't manufacture and sell them anymore. For that matter it would seem that he had no claim to anything original (name or design) anyway.

I can't imagine that anyone can't see how an inventor/rights owner would want to hold onto his product.  It's his device, and no one should be able to sell it without paying royalties or buying the license. 

But again, no one was selling anything.

[dallastar]

the caveman that disigned/thoughtup/made the 1st wheel must be really pissed right now

[Doc809]

Hey Bama, spoken like a true attorney.  Way to go, Dude!  What concerns me is that I almost understood what you said. hehe Larry

[Scott in Ok]

I'm working from memory here, but I remember this issue coming up many, MANY, years ago.  It wasn't related to a member, but other vendors.  I'm pretty sure that the term "Kick Shift" is what was trademarked by Chet.  See this product page: http://www.rattlebars.com/cart/shiftbig.html

-Scott

[MP]

I'm working from memory here, but I remember this issue coming up many, MANY, years ago.  It wasn't related to a member, but other vendors.  I'm pretty sure that the term "Kick Shift" is what was trademarked by Chet.  See this product page: http://www.rattlebars.com/cart/shiftbig.html

-Scott

Looks good.  Thus, the term "Kickshifter" is perfectly good.  It is NOT "Kick Shift".  Two different terms. Lots of mfg's using "Kickshifter".  Do a google search.

MP

[warren]

Didn't Rattlers close up shop?  if they aren't going to make the product, then let someone else.

[The Anvil]

the caveman that disigned/thoughtup/made the 1st wheel must be really pissed right now

Not to mention the guy who figured out pivots, pushrods, levers, mechanical advantage etc...

To me your product must do something unique to qualify for protection. Nothing about Chet's design is original or unique.

[BamaDrifter64]

Hey Bama, spoken like a true attorney.  Way to go, Dude!  What concerns me is that I almost understood what you said. hehe Larry

Larry,

Watch out now!  If you think you understood what I thought I understood, but understand now that I misunderstood what I thought I understood and you therefore misunderstood what you thought I understood but which now we both understand that we both misunderstood what we both thought I understood, we both therefore now have an understanding of where we both stood on the matter and therefore there shouldn't be anymore misunderstandings about the matter...ok?

Dave

[fudgie]

Geez then I guess the guy sending out a template for a hitch better watchout! Hitchdoc might get on his ass. 

No one is knocking down Valk Bling and more's door. Hope he continues as the demand is there.

Big Mike has great items to keep us looking good. Hats off to him.

Hats off to Chet for all he has done for the Valk and VRCC.

Call it a heal-toe shifter and all will be good.

I outta trademark the name Fudgie. Might be a demand for the handle some day. 

Why is my post looking like big al's?   

[DFragn]

Just my opinion, but...

Seems a few of the newer members are like common teenagers. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's as if they know everything and never give a thought or regard to the knowledge and input generated by others that came long before themselves.

Like myself, Chet has been around here since 1997. I'll do the math, that's 14 years!
Chet has contributed a tremendous amount to the VRCC [ever visit the ShopTalk pages? http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ ].

He has earned the right to get miffed about this kick shifter situation.
Things would have gone much better if bscrive would have taken the time to contact Chet prior to distributing his copied drawing of Chet's product. bscrive was aware it was Chet's design and apparently didn't consider it to be invasive. 

Perhaps Chet would have suggested to go ahead and run with it. Or, maybe he would have suggested he was contemplating a production run himself.

I'm just sayin', ya know?

I think Chet deserves a PM from bscrive. Im thinking things can be smoothed out and kept off the boards. It should be between Chet & bscrive...

[Jeff K]

I went through the same crap with Roger the maker of the trigger wheel. he threatened to sue me because I had/have a page on my web site about how to make your own "trigger wheel" he claimed to own the term trigger wheel. So I just pulled the words "trigger wheel" from my site and also removed the link to his site to buy the original item from him.

[Jeff K]

Just my opinion, but...

Seems a few of the newer members are like common teenagers. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's as if they know everything and never give a thought or regard to the knowledge and input generated by others that came long before themselves.

Like myself, Chet has been around here since 1997. I'll do the math, that's 14 years!
Chet has contributed a tremendous amount to the VRCC [ever visit the ShopTalk pages? http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ ].

He has earned the right to get miffed about this kick shifter situation.
Things would have gone much better if bscrive would have taken the time to contact Chet prior to distributing his copied drawing of Chet's product. bscrive was aware it was Chet's design and apparently didn't consider it to be invasive. 

Perhaps Chet would have suggested to go ahead and run with it. Or, maybe he would have suggested he was contemplating a production run himself.

I'm just sayin', ya know?

I think Chet deserves a PM from bscrive. Im thinking things can be smoothed out and kept off the boards. It should be between Chet & bscrive...

Chet was the first to make this public. He posted on the tech board. I agree that an email or pm from Chet would have been a better idea.
Chet is a great guy. He has always been fair to me. I have quite a few Rattlebars items. And really could use another kickshifter.

[YoungPUP]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....