Will u vote for or against gun rights?

[98valk]

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/11/michelle-obamas-warning-to-gun-owners/

[x]

The nut cases on that web site have created a non existent conspiracy to ban guns from an unrelated campaign speech.  Even more amazing, people buy into it.

[Gear Jammer]

Nov.2012,,, ABO

[Chattanooga Mark]

Barry can't always get what he wants by legislation. Which is why he goes around the US Constitution to implement his "fundamental change" by regulation, executive order and crony capitalism.

Mark

[texaninsouthfl]

The nut cases on that web site have created a non existent conspiracy to ban guns from an unrelated campaign speech.  Even more amazing, people buy into it.

You're right, there's no conspiracy... a conspiracy has some element of secrecy to it and BHO has never hidden the fact that he's totally anti 2nd Amendment. His voting record as a legislator is proof... any assertion of his to the contrary is laughable and a bald faced lie.

The only reason he's not been more openly anti-gun rights so far is it has been one battle he didn't want to take on while still concerned about a second term. If he gets re-elected the assault on our freedoms and founding principals we've seen in the first term will seem like child's play by comparison.

[RoadKill]

Don't know what you all are worried about.....if they are going to come for my guns they better want the ammo first. I shall do my part to insure that no one died for their 2nd amendment right in vain !

[texaninsouthfl]

Don't know what you all are worried about.....if they are going to come for my guns they better want the ammo first. I shall do my part to insure that no one died for their 2nd amendment right in vain !

A couple of years ago, I was at the monthly gun show and was talking to a deputy about gun stuff in general.... besides mentioning that he recommends all his friends get their carry permits because cops can't be there to protect you, in answer to a question about what he thought would happen if there were an order to confiscate guns, he said there would be a WHOLE lot of LEO's calling in sick. Of course in the States like NY and IL, it might be a different story.

The good news when it comes to gun rights is that the in the last three years, there has been an overwhelming trend in most states to pass more pro 2nd Amendment legislation. BHO and his cabal will have a fairly difficult time reversing that trend.

[jer0177]

I vote pro second amendment every chance I get and pay some attention to what all is going on, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned here is this:

A treaty with other countries trumps our Constitution.

That being said, any treaty that BHO decides to sign that says "the US will ban handguns" or "the US will ban guns" will trump our 2nd amendment rights, and IIRC, treaties don't have to go through the house/senate/congress (someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong).

[junior]

the best way to keep your guns is to stop telling everyone that your gonna shoot them.

some of you guys remind me of high school........."you hit me first....no you hit me first"   

[rmrc51]

A couple of years ago, I was at the monthly gun show and was talking to a deputy about gun stuff in general.... besides mentioning that he recommends all his friends get their carry permits because cops can't be there to protect you, in answer to a question about what he thought would happen if there were an order to confiscate guns, he said there would be a WHOLE lot of LEO's calling in sick. 

 

They would never find mine!

[9Ball]

who has any guns?....just saying.

[Bob E.]

His voting record as a legislator is proof...

Specifically, what bills has he voted on or enacted either as senator or president that would take away your gun rights?

[BigAl]

Don't know what you all are worried about.....if they are going to come for my guns they better want the ammo first. I shall do my part to insure that no one died for their 2nd amendment right in vain !

Cold dead hands would be about right.

That's when you will get it.

I am a law abidding citizen who takes freedom seriously.

Once it's gone,,blood must be spilled to regain.


Just like when the freedom we have was won, blood was spilled and sacrifice made to have what we have.

Giving any freedom up is like pissing on a soldiers grave, it's just that bad of a thing.

May the wings of Liberty ,,never lose a feather.

[rmrc51]

Don't know what you all are worried about.....if they are going to come for my guns they better want the ammo first. I shall do my part to insure that no one died for their 2nd amendment right in vain !

Cold dead hands would be about right.

That's when you will get it.

I am a law abidding citizen who takes freedom seriously.

Once it's gone,,blood must be spilled to regain.


Just like when the freedom we have was won, blood was spilled and sacrifice made to have what we have.

+1, DITTO and ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

[98valk]

His voting record as a legislator is proof...

Specifically, what bills has he voted on or enacted either as senator or president that would take away your gun rights?

Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

http://www.ontheissues.org/barack_obama.htm   
 everything u wanted to know on his postitions or any other political leader

rank - Barack Obama is a Hard-Core Liberal

[fon1961]

"Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)"

this kind of thing really bugs me, maybe we can make gun ownership a mandatory part of gov't mandated health insurance?  O...only locally of course.

[solo1]

The only situation where I am a one issue voter is on the Second Amendment.  A politician who has a RECORD of voting against the individual right to own and use firearms will not get my vote.  Obama has that record.  I ignore all speeches now, they mean nothing.  I ignore media mouthings, they ARE nothing!

As far as bumper stickers are concerned, I've never thought much of them, especially the one  'pry them from my cold dead"  The most valid one would be "If the government doesn't trust me with my guns, should I trust them with theirs?"

There are now four known antigun Supreme Court Justices.  A second presidential term could easily make them a majority.

Some people think that the loss of our Second Amendment would not be important. I consider it extremely serious

I just looked at my post and I have to add this below since everything posted on the VRCC now seems to be subjected to the musings of pseudo lawyers.

Even if the Second Amendment wouldn't be lost due to the difficulty of checks and balances in a ratifying process, an adverse judgment of our Supreme Court would effectively kill it.

[Sergeant D]

"The only situation where I am a one issue voter is on the Second Amendment.  A politician who has a RECORD of voting against the individual right to own and use firearms will not get my vote.  Obama has that record.  I ignore all speeches now, they mean nothing.  I ignore media mouthings, they ARE nothing!"

+1.  I don't care if you are a Republican't or a Democrap, this single issue with my ability to protect myself, and or my family, trumps all others.  If you seriously think that banning guns decreases violence, go to Europe and "live" there for a while.  I served overseas five times for almost ten years.  I've fought in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Nicaragua.  Crime and especially violent crime does not decrease.  By only allowing the police and military to possess firearms, we are one step closer to being a facist state.  If you think I'm off my rocker, check pre-war Germany.

[Chattanooga Mark]

Bob E,

     You asked for the facts and they've been supplied. What do you think about Obama and the Second Amendment now?

Mark

[texaninsouthfl]

I vote pro second amendment every chance I get and pay some attention to what all is going on, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned here is this:

A treaty with other countries trumps our Constitution.

That being said, any treaty that BHO decides to sign that says "the US will ban handguns" or "the US will ban guns" will trump our 2nd amendment rights, and IIRC, treaties don't have to go through the house/senate/congress (someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong).

Treaties DO have to be ratified by Congress. This one would never pass the Republican lead House. HOWEVER, IF Dems regained the House and IF BHO were to be re-elected, it might be a different story... BHO and his minions support it.

[bscrive]

  By only allowing the police and military to possess firearms, we are one step closer to being a facist state.  If you think I'm off my rocker, check pre-war Germany.

It is not the end of the world guys.  We, up here in Canada survive quite well not being armed and.... we are not fascist, although, some think we are.

Brian

[Bob E.]

Bob E,

     You asked for the facts and they've been supplied. What do you think about Obama and the Second Amendment now?

Mark

Fair enough...I read through the website regarding Obama's record on guns since the list titles are a bit misleading and inflammatory.  When I read through all of them, I see that Obama's record is strongly against illegal guns and gun trafficking.  But he specifically mentions and recognizes that it is important for people to be able to own guns in many of those articles.  I don't agree with his questionaire endorsing a ban handgun ownership in IL (he claims someone erroneously else filled it out for him), nor do I necessarily agree with his stated (but not enacted) position against concealed carry.  However, I don't really see the problem with someone wanting to do something about the gun violence against law-abiding citizens by criminals who have access to illegal guns provided the 2nd amendment is respected...which he goes out of his way to stress.

[solo1]

The President of the United States can make all the speeches that he wants.  I watch what he did and does, not his lips.

I stand on what I said.

[Bob E.]

The President of the United States can make all the speeches that he wants.  I watch what he did and does, not his lips.

I stand on what I said.

I agree.  And along those same lines, people can make all the accusations and generalizations they want.  It is basically what these political threads turn into rather than factual information and it drives me crazy.  That's why I asked what he has done that is anti-gun.  And I was met with a link that lists all of this stuff that he has done.  And all that list really showed is that he is in favor of trying to deal with the very real problem of illegal guns and gun trafficking and NOT ending the 2nd amendment as some would like us to believe.  I don't have a problem with someone trying to solve a very real problem.  And this is where I lose a little respect for the NRA.  Instead of working with the government to solve a problem...similar to how the AMA works with the government on motorcycle issues...they resort to all of these "slippery slope" and fear mongering arguements that really solve nothing.  They've made it such that we cannot even have a reasonable discussion about the problem let alone decide how to solve it.  If you ask a lot of then, there is no problem.  Everyone says Obama is anti-gun...he's coming for your guns...and so on.  The best is the latest line from the NRA that says you can tell how he much he is anti-gun by the way he hasn't done any thing to come for your guns.  WTF????!!!! 

[solo1]

Dig deeper on this issue.  Don't take NRA's word for it.  I disagree sometimes on how NRA presents the facts (I am an NRA Endowment member) but the facts remain.  Obama, and his administration, is against private ownership of firearms. 

As far as working with Obama on this, it's sorta like the old saying, "Play ball with me and I'll shove the bat up your arse!"

Facts, not talk.

[Bob E.]

Dig deeper on this issue.  Don't take NRA's word for it.  I disagree sometimes on how NRA presents the facts (I am an NRA Endowment member) but the facts remain.  Obama, and his administration, is against private ownership of firearms. 

As far as working with Obama on this, it's sorta like the old saying, "Play ball with me and I'll shove the bat up your arse!"

Facts, not talk.

Right...all I asked for is facts, and I've yet to receive anything meaningful, just hyperbole. That's what drives me crazy.

[solo1]

If you're really interested, don't wait on someone with a bias to comment, keep on open mind and look it up yourself since you seem to be unbiased.

The facts are out there.   I know them, i had to work for them.

[tank_post142]

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty

[Bob E.]

I'm not saying I'm biased or unbiased.  Assume I'm unbiased and convince me.  That's all I'm asking.  I'm a gun owner with a concealed carry permit.  So this is something that concerns me.  Just telling me to forget all of my other concerns with regards to taxes, economics, health care, civil rights, foreign policy, etc. and vote against someone I may or may not otherwise agree with for this one issue just because...without anything supporting that reasoning isn't enough.

That's the problem on these threads.  Anyone can make unsubstantiated claims for their views without having to support those claims with facts.  I asked for facts and I still didn't get any.  All I got was a list that someone claimed were facts, until I actually read the articles and found that they aren't nearly as insideous as the headline would lead one to believe.

[Bob E.]

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty

Do you have a link to the actual treaty being discussed rather than the talk about what might be in it?  Forgive me if I just don't trust the rather biased source.  You know...death panels anyone??

[Farther]

That's the problem on these threads.  Anyone can make unsubstantiated claims for their views without having to support those claims with facts.  I asked for facts and I still didn't get any.  All I got was a list that someone claimed were facts, until I actually read the articles and found that they aren't nearly as insideous as the headline would lead one to believe.

I too am a CCW permit holder and an NRA member for many years.  I agree with you wholeheartedly but you will drive yourself insane with trying to get facts from some individuals whose opinion is chiseled in stone and based on someone elses opinion with little supporting facts.  When you search for facts supporting President Obama as a gun grabber and you can't find any reliable sources or information, what conclusion can you honestly arrive at?

[hubcapsc]

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty

Do you have a link to the actual treaty being discussed rather than the talk about what might be in it?  Forgive me if I just don't trust the rather biased source.  You know...death panels anyone??

I don't think there is such a treaty, I think the details of such a treaty are being debated, but there's
not a document as such yet...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty

http://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/ArmsTradeTreaty/

-Mike

[tank_post142]

http://www.disarm.emb-japan.go.jp/statements/Statement/N0958107.pdf

4. Decides, therefore, to convene the United Nations Conference on the
Arms Trade Treaty to sit for four consecutive weeks in 2012 to elaborate a legally
binding instrument on the highest possible common international standards for the
transfer of conventional arms;

[Serk]

The problem with saying you're just against "illegal guns" is... what is meant by "illegal guns"? In many places, such as New York City, Washington D.C., North Korea, Chicago, etc, almost all guns are "illegal guns", thus negating any real meaning to that term. If you're just against "illegal guns" from a Chicago point of view, well, you're practically against all guns. If you're against "illegal guns" from a Texas point of view, then you're against guns that have been stolen and are in possession of convicted felons.

As is the case with almost everything, it's all a matter of perspective.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Dig deeper on this issue.  Don't take NRA's word for it.  I disagree sometimes on how NRA presents the facts (I am an NRA Endowment member) but the facts remain.  Obama, and his administration, is against private ownership of firearms.  

As far as working with Obama on this, it's sorta like the old saying, "Play ball with me and I'll shove the bat up your arse!"

Facts, not talk.

Right...all I asked for is facts, and I've yet to receive anything meaningful, just hyperbole. That's what drives me crazy.

He sent Mrs. Clinton to Mexico where she publicly blamed United States gun owners for the problems in Mexico. At the same time she was blaming US gun owners Obama's BATF people were secretly supplying some of the drug cartels with firearms from American dealers so they would be traced back to the US to support her story. The only possible reason for this was to gain public support for anti-2'nd amendment policy.

The two Supreme Court justices Obama has put in place have both been anti-2'nd amendment. Luckily, they were replacing the same kind of justices so we didn't lose or gain anything. If he stays in office long enough to replace even one pro 2'nd amendment judge then gun-owners and the rest of American will almost undoubtedly loose our 2n'd amendment rights. Remember, we only kept our rights by one vote. And even the most pro Obama people would have to admit, there is not a chance in the world that he would appoint a pro-second amendment judge.

On top of that he recently told the anti-gun lobby that he was working "under the radar" to enact restrictions on gun owners. I don't think he has been nearly as destructive of our rights as Clinton was but I think that's mostly because of a lack of effectiveness on his part. Not a lack of anti-gun philosophy.

He has also stopped South Korea from selling a boatload of M1 carbines back to the US because they have "detachable magazines" which he believes are too dangerous for regular citizens to own. That seems to say all that could be said about his feelings towards ownership of semi-auto firearms.

I'm sure if I though a little bit I could bring up other examples but that is surly enough to satisfy your question.

[98valk]

The problem with saying you're just against "illegal guns" is... what is meant by "illegal guns"? In many places, such as New York City, Washington D.C., North Korea, Chicago, etc, almost all guns are "illegal guns", thus negating any real meaning to that term. If you're just against "illegal guns" from a Chicago point of view, well, you're practically against all guns. If you're against "illegal guns" from a Texas point of view, then you're against guns that have been stolen and are in possession of convicted felons.

As is the case with almost everything, it's all a matter of perspective.

too go along with this, in new jersey ALL guns are illegal to own outside of your house. If u have a gun permit then u can take the gun out of your house.  A Gun Permit means registered owner, means they know who u are, how many u have and were u live. If u want to buy a gun, u need the permit, one for long guns and shot guns and a seperate one for hand guns.
Registration is the first step to confiscation.

[Skinhead]

Bob E,

     You asked for the facts and they've been supplied. What do you think about Obama and the Second Amendment now?

Mark

Fair enough...I read through the website regarding Obama's record on guns since the list titles are a bit misleading and inflammatory.  When I read through all of them, I see that Obama's record is strongly against illegal guns and gun trafficking.  But he specifically mentions and recognizes that it is important for people to be able to own guns in many of those articles.  I don't agree with his questionaire endorsing a ban handgun ownership in IL (he claims someone erroneously else filled it out for him), nor do I necessarily agree with his stated (but not enacted) position against concealed carry.  However, I don't really see the problem with someone wanting to do something about the gun violence against law-abiding citizens by criminals who have access to illegal guns provided the 2nd amendment is respected...which he goes out of his way to stress.

[sarcasm font]I guess that explains operation fast and furious and his drive to get to the bottom of that affair.[\sarcasm font]

[The Anvil]

Oddly enough, I'm going to invoke the philosophy if the soft-bellied, moon-faced, never-put-in-an-honest-day's-work-in-his-life Newt Gingrich here; Will I vote for or against gun rights? Well that depends. As Gingrich told gays; "if your primary concern is seeking marriage rights for gays then you probably shouldn't vote for me. If your primary concern is for other things..."

As much as I love my guns it is not my #1 priority. It's up there, but #1? No. I'll vote for the guy I think will pull us out of this (if there is such an animal). They may end up being the same candidate, or they may not.

[MP]

Oddly enough, I'm going to invoke the philosophy if the soft-bellied, moon-faced, never-put-in-an-honest-day's-work-in-his-life Newt Gingrich here;

Sheesh....  I thought you were talking about our Community Organizer In Chief!  My mistake.  Description fits though.

MP

[The Anvil]

Oddly enough, I'm going to invoke the philosophy if the soft-bellied, moon-faced, never-put-in-an-honest-day's-work-in-his-life Newt Gingrich here;

Sheesh....  I thought you were talking about our Community Organizer In Chief!  My mistake.  Description fits though.

MP

Obama's not moon-faced OR soft bellied.  ???