Trayvon Martin Matter . . . Opinions

[donaldcc]

  By now most people have probably heard of this killing in Sanford, FL by the self proclaimed neighborhood watch volunteer, Zimmerman.  I am amazed by the response of Law Enforcement's initial responses and believing Zimmerman's "Stand Your Ground Defense".  Seems like he is more a "vigilante"  rather than a "victim" defending himself.

  I'm all for 2nd Amendment and defense of home and family from predators, but IMHO this goes far beyond that and I hope justice will be served!

  Any thoughts??  ???

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120321,0,4517391.story

[MNBill]

I can not have an opinion on this situation. I do not know the FACTS only information the prosecutor has allowed the press to have and the ramblings of a family in mourning. When the facts are brought before a grand jury I am sure those twelve people will make a responsible and educated decision. When the facts are available I will get back to you on what I think. I am sure with the feds, local prosecutor and LE all checking into this situation every charge will be considered that can be proven.

[The Anvil]

Law enforcement seems to have erred on the side of the survivor. We don't REALLY know what transpired there, but it certainly draws negative attention to what is otherwise a sound law. Mr. Zimmerman does indeed appear to be more of a vigilante than an upstanding citizen, but how do you really know? You don't. It's one man's word against another and one of them is dead.

"Zimmerman called 911 to report a suspicious person, according to the call released by Sanford emergency dispatch. Against the advice of the 911 dispatcher, Zimmerman followed Martin, according to the 911 recording."

But the fact is that Mr. Martin was unarmed and had every right to be there. Zimmerman had no business getting into any kind of altercation with him. Neighborhood watch is just that; WATCH.

BTW, this is EXACTLY the scenario I warned you all about a few months back when the subject came up in another thread.

[BF]

Didn't the 911 dispatch operator instruct him NOT to pursue the guy.....and he did anyway?  I'm no lawyer, but I'd think that would show some kind of intent on his (Zimmerman's) part.  Maybe one of Oss's legal secretary's can help out here.  

[BigAl]

If all the facts are in.

He will be tried for manslaughter.

If there are more circumstances the survivor/shooter will walk.

Time will tell.

[MP]

Need to know more info.  I heard the shooter had a wound to his nose, and to the back of his head.  Also that the police thought the person hollering for help was the shooter, not the shootee.  Much more info needed. 

Not just Al Sharpton's rhetoric!

[Molasses]

I'm with everyone else that's saying that the information isn't at hand to make a decision.  

I've heard a lot of conjecture on other sites and read a bunch of stories from news sources all over the country about this incident and can't help but wonder how much of it is going to turn out to have little resemblance to what comes out later.

I will say that I'd figure the police and prosecutors should have the best view of the facts of anyone at the moment and that their not having the shooter in lockup facing charges might indicate that there are angles to this mess we haven't heard yet.

[The Anvil]

An interesting thing I heard on NPR yesterday was a Black Commentator going on and on about white people stereotyping young black males in this society and about when will it end and blah-blah.

What's curious is that the shooter looks rather "Puerto Ricaney". I don't know if he's Hispanic or not (Zimmerman is not a Hispanic name that I'm aware of but that means little) but it sort of throws a wrench in that argument. I say sort of because knowing what I know about these things the tension between black Americans and Hispanics can be as bad if not worse than between black Americans and whitey. I think it might just be a case of a busybody looking to put a bullet in the first person who pissed him off.

And again, the dead kid was unarmed and was not in a place he shouldn't have been. Zimmerman should have taken the 911 operator's advice. Frankly, were I in the kid's shoes I might be resistant to some jackoff questioning my right to exercise my freedom of movement. Exactly what authority did he possess to detain or question someone else's child (he WAS a minor) in matters that didn't concern him?

[Hoser]

It don't matter what you or I think, unless we are on the jury when and if it comes to trial.  Hoser

[musclehead]

from the name 'George Zimmerman' everyone jumped on the racial bus. Including Randi Rhodes I was listening to her over in AZ.

my take on the 'stand your ground' defense in this case won't fly. he was standing his ground UNTIL he got out of his car. then he became if not an aggressor a willing participant, while in the car he had a way out. he could have just drove off.

without the facts I'm thinking this might be the scenario; he gets out of his car, a verbal confrontation escalates into a physical one. the young man pastes him in the nose, the older man gets mad and shoots the younger one. more or less. we'll see what the facts bear out.

[The Anvil]

Including Randi Rhodes

I heard that dude is really off the rails. Like some kind of crazy train.

BTW MH, I think that's a very likely scenario. What bugs me about the Zimmerman defenders is that they (and I'm not talking about anyone here) keep bringing up his "right to defend himself" and "stand his ground". But what about the average citizen's right to go to and from their domicile without being harassed by what amounts to a rent-a-cop with a bad attitude? I dunno about you guys but if some neighborhood watch tool starts bugging me when I'm otherwise just going about my day then I'm not gonna be pleased about that and I'm certainly not going to submit to their will. Unless the kid was doing something blatantly illegal then it is his duty to himself to tell nosey party to pound sand. And even if he were doing something illegal I'm not so sure it's a neighborhood watch member's job to get directly involved.

NO good will come of this for anyone and it will just make it harder for people who truly are justified in defending themselves. Every case will be put under a microscope now.

[donaldcc]

  Telephone call to girlfriend just before the shooting seems to indicate vigilante and not "Stand Your Ground Defense".

http://abcnews.go.com/US/traynor-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017

[Moonshot_1]

Until there is more information available all we can do is speculate really.

I'm guessing the DA and Law Enforcement are holding off an arrest until the investigation is complete. It would be a mess to have this one get away on a technical matter.

Opinion is if Zimmerman pursued, confronted and tried to detain the kid, then killed him, an unarmed kid who has the freedom to walk down the street unaccosted, good bye Mr. Zimmerman. See you in 50 years.

[musclehead]

Including Randi Rhodes

I heard that dude is really off the rails. Like some kind of crazy train.

BTW MH, I think that's a very likely scenario. What bugs me about the Zimmerman defenders is that they (and I'm not talking about anyone here) keep bringing up his "right to defend himself" and "stand his ground". But what about the average citizen's right to go to and from their domicile without being harassed by what amounts to a rent-a-cop with a bad attitude? I dunno about you guys but if some neighborhood watch tool starts bugging me when I'm otherwise just going about my day then I'm not gonna be pleased about that and I'm certainly not going to submit to their will. Unless the kid was doing something blatantly illegal then it is his duty to himself to tell nosey party to pound sand. And even if he were doing something illegal I'm not so sure it's a neighborhood watch member's job to get directly involved.

NO good will come of this for anyone and it will just make it harder for people who truly are justified in defending themselves. Every case will be put under a microscope now.

close,  Randi is a gal 

[The Anvil]

Including Randi Rhodes

I heard that dude is really off the rails. Like some kind of crazy train.

BTW MH, I think that's a very likely scenario. What bugs me about the Zimmerman defenders is that they (and I'm not talking about anyone here) keep bringing up his "right to defend himself" and "stand his ground". But what about the average citizen's right to go to and from their domicile without being harassed by what amounts to a rent-a-cop with a bad attitude? I dunno about you guys but if some neighborhood watch tool starts bugging me when I'm otherwise just going about my day then I'm not gonna be pleased about that and I'm certainly not going to submit to their will. Unless the kid was doing something blatantly illegal then it is his duty to himself to tell nosey party to pound sand. And even if he were doing something illegal I'm not so sure it's a neighborhood watch member's job to get directly involved.

NO good will come of this for anyone and it will just make it harder for people who truly are justified in defending themselves. Every case will be put under a microscope now.

close,  Randi is a gal 

Aw well that just takes all the steam outta my locomotive!

[musclehead]

Including Randi Rhodes

I heard that dude is really off the rails. Like some kind of crazy train.

BTW MH, I think that's a very likely scenario. What bugs me about the Zimmerman defenders is that they (and I'm not talking about anyone here) keep bringing up his "right to defend himself" and "stand his ground". But what about the average citizen's right to go to and from their domicile without being harassed by what amounts to a rent-a-cop with a bad attitude? I dunno about you guys but if some neighborhood watch tool starts bugging me when I'm otherwise just going about my day then I'm not gonna be pleased about that and I'm certainly not going to submit to their will. Unless the kid was doing something blatantly illegal then it is his duty to himself to tell nosey party to pound sand. And even if he were doing something illegal I'm not so sure it's a neighborhood watch member's job to get directly involved.

NO good will come of this for anyone and it will just make it harder for people who truly are justified in defending themselves. Every case will be put under a microscope now.

close,  Randi is a gal 

Aw well that just takes all the steam outta my locomotive!

I'm sure you'll rebound 

[..]

I can not have an opinion on this situation. I do not know the FACTS only information the prosecutor has allowed the press to have and the ramblings of a family in mourning. When the facts are brought before a grand jury I am sure those twelve people will make a responsible and educated decision. When the facts are available I will get back to you on what I think. I am sure with the feds, local prosecutor and LE all checking into this situation every charge will be considered that can be proven.

+1

[Chiefy]

Seems like Zimmerman had a bug up his butt about black people, given some of the comments on some of the 911 calls he made.  It also appears that he was at very least over-zealous.  The young man's girlfriend will most likely testify to the effect that he told her he was walking away fast.  Zimmerman decides to be a junior cop and confronts the kid.  The cops found the boy dead, and Zimmerman with a bloody nose and grass in the hair on the back of his head.  Sounds to me like the kid could take care of himself.  The girlfriend heard what she thinks was the boy being pushed or struck.  You know that "Woof!" sound if someone pushes hard somewhere on your torso if you're not expecting it.  Until we get more info, from my seat it looks like a guy who doesn't like black people decides to confront someone smaller then him so he could feel like a big shot.  The kid either had a "who the hell are you?" attitude, or was genuinely afraid.  Zimmerman pushed him, and the kid took him down.  I think Zimmerman probably panicked at that point and killed the kid.

That's the way the puzzle pieces fit on my table.  Will be interesting to see what else we hear.  Self defense (IMHO) doesn't work with what details we have at this point, at least in my sense of morals.

[Raverez]

Hey Anvil.
Just what does Puerto Ricany look like?

[Michael K (Az.)]

Hey Anvil.
Just what does Puerto Ricany look like?

Hee hee

[The Anvil]

Hey Anvil.
Just what does Puerto Ricany look like?

Like Zimmerman. Look at the picture! 

Before you get all puffy and offended it's a line from Family Guy that I found amusing.

[steve 3054]

I live in Sanford, and I am a retired police officer, having said that tentions are high and the media is pushing for a fight...all the pics of the young man are of a 12-14 year old, not that of a strapping 17 year old young man.  Also there are no convient stores anywhere in the area for well  over a mile or two.  Mr. Z had, had his home broken into and several others in the area by young men dressed this way, Mr,Z recieved injuries from a altercation after heading back to his vehicle and being attacked by the 17 year old.many,many stories are being told, the Police Dept nor the SAO, has released any information so most is made up unless one is forturnate to know law enforcement personally.  The sad part is a young man has lost his life and another must live with a decision he made to take a life.  The Grand Jury will convien on April 10 and decide if a law has been violated and if there will be prosecution.   Having said that EVERYTHING else is just someones opioion.  This is AMERICA and land of laws that we live by, good or bad...

[art]

give an idiot a gun and nothing good come of it.Years ago there was a rent-a-cop guard an my place of work(GE) an he had a macho image of himself.He would like to play quik draw magraw an shot himself in the foot.End of job for him.This guy was part of a neighbor watch not a cop I feel he was wrong an didn't handle it properly and now will face the jury .We will see.

[Chrisj CMA]

This should be all about one jerk that picked a fight and ended the fight........Now his judgement, and it looks to me like its going to be severe.  The dude should have left Mr Martin alone unless he was in fear of his (or someone elses) life.  Clearly that was not the case.

I just hope this doesnt become a reason to try to repeal the FL "hold your ground law" that is not even applicable in this case

[donaldcc]

. . .   Mr. Z had, had his home broken into and several others in the area by young men dressed this way, Mr,Z recieved injuries from a altercation after heading back to his vehicle and being attacked by the 17 year old. . .

  i do not recall reading anywhere that the boy "attacked" Zimmerman when he was "heading back" to his vehicle except from Z's self serving account of the incident.  And I would not want him confronting me if I was walking around with a "hoodie". I might want to kick his a$$ also.

[Bob E.]

...all the pics of the young man are of a 12-14 year old, not that of a strapping 17 year old young man. 

I saw an interview with one of the attorney's (for whatever that is worth) that stated the photo of Martin where he in in the red shirt was taken 2-3 weeks before the shooting.

Also, from what I have seen and heard, I got the impression that Zimmerman had left his vehicle to pursue and ultimately confront Martin, after the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow him.  I didn't see anything where the shooting happened at Zimmerman's truck.

And I didn't realize that where Martin was walking home from was in question??  So what does a convenience store being a mile or so away have to do with anything?  The kid was an athelete in sweats...maybe he had been out jogging or something??  Either way, a mile or so isn't that far to walk.

[Bob E.]

This should be all about one jerk that picked a fight and ended the fight........Now his judgement, and it looks to me like its going to be severe.  The dude should have left Mr Martin alone unless he was in fear of his (or someone elses) life.  Clearly that was not the case.

I just hope this doesnt become a reason to try to repeal the FL "hold your ground law" that is not even applicable in this case

I don't know all of the particulars of the law, but if it isn't repealed (and at this time, I'm not suggesting it should be), it certainly needs amended to ensure that it is being applied properly by law enforcement...which appears to be what the problem is in this case.

[The Anvil]

. . .   Mr. Z had, had his home broken into and several others in the area by young men dressed this way, Mr,Z recieved injuries from a altercation after heading back to his vehicle and being attacked by the 17 year old. . .

  i do not recall reading anywhere that the boy "attacked" Zimmerman when he was "heading back" to his vehicle except from Z's self serving account of the incident.  And I would not want him confronting me if I was walking around with a "hoodie". I might want to kick his a$$ also.

I think Steve was relating some of the conjecture, not offering a story he necessarily believed. But I could be wrong.

Chris, that worries me as well and I see it potentially having further reaching implications. I believe firmly in castle doctrine and the right to defend yourself when attacked. But if you make laws like this too vague then this is the risk you run. Again, not to be a dick but this is pretty much exactly the scenario I warned everybody about a couple months ago. He could have been anyone's kid.

[steve 3054]

The Anvil, Yes, just some of the things I have heard.  The bottom line is only two people know the truth and one ain't talkin... Only time will tell what the grand jury does, when the truth as told comes out.  Short of that there will be a day when both people will stand in judgement of their actions.
     
As far as the convienent store:  the media is making it sound like a small child went to the store for candy and a bad man just killed him...

As for my opiinion, I am waiting for the grand jury results...it is almost funny to me that some people are saying what the guy was thinking, what kind of person he is and all other information about the guy when the only information they have is the media...and the media NEVER streches the truth!!

[G-Man]

And I didn't realize that where Martin was walking home from was in question??  So what does a convenience store being a mile or so away have to do with anything?  The kid was an athelete in sweats...maybe he had been out jogging or something??  Either way, a mile or so isn't that far to walk.

Where he was "coming from" is a HUGE part of this.  It has been shouted from the mountain tops that he was killed going to the store to buy candy for his brother.  Now, if the nearest store is a mile away, and it was raining (something else I heard), is that really where the kid was coming from?  Not offering my opinion, just adding to the conversation.

[G-Man]

from the name 'George Zimmerman' everyone jumped on the racial bus. Including Randi Rhodes I was listening to her over in AZ.

It HAD to be racial.  Even the Left Wing rag that I wouldn't let my dog crap on, the NY Times felt the unyielding force to make it racial.  Just like some of the folks here in this thread have.  But the Times went even further.  They went so far out on a limb to make this racial.  When they found out that Zimmerman was Hispanic, they printed that he was a WHITE HISPANIC.  Bingo!  Black on Black won't make the news.  Hispanic on Black might get 10th or 11th page, but White on Black,........gets Al Sharpton involved. 

[Bonzo]

Joe Scarborough, MSNBC commentator and former conservative republican Congressman from Florida made an interesting point. If a black man shot a white boy in the same circumstance they would have locked him up, no problem. but they did not and they administered a blood alcohol test to the dead boy. Say what you will, that's what it is.

[Bob E.]

And I didn't realize that where Martin was walking home from was in question??  So what does a convenience store being a mile or so away have to do with anything?  The kid was an athelete in sweats...maybe he had been out jogging or something??  Either way, a mile or so isn't that far to walk.

Where he was "coming from" is a HUGE part of this.  It has been shouted from the mountain tops that he was killed going to the store to buy candy for his brother.  Now, if the nearest store is a mile away, and it was raining (something else I heard), is that really where the kid was coming from?  Not offering my opinion, just adding to the conversation.

You might be right...I just wasn't aware that it was in dispute.  I thought everyone agreed that he was coming home from the convenience store with skittles and iced tea.  I hadn't heard anyone question that point is all.

[Bob E.]

from the name 'George Zimmerman' everyone jumped on the racial bus. Including Randi Rhodes I was listening to her over in AZ.

It HAD to be racial.  Even the Left Wing rag that I wouldn't let my dog crap on, the NY Times felt the unyielding force to make it racial.  Just like some of the folks here in this thread have.  But the Times went even further.  They went so far out on a limb to make this racial.  When they found out that Zimmerman was Hispanic, they printed that he was a WHITE HISPANIC.  Bingo!  Black on Black won't make the news.  Hispanic on Black might get 10th or 11th page, but White on Black,........gets Al Sharpton involved. 

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?  Did you hear the 911 tapes?  In my opinion, it's pretty clear that at the very least Zimmerman considered him suspicious because he was a young black male.  Then he goes on to use a racial slur in the call.

[2KVALKRIDER]

I have an opinion on this situation, I COULD CARE EVEN LESS THAN I DO NOW.......

[The Anvil]

I have an opinion on this situation, I COULD CARE EVEN LESS THAN I DO NOW.......

That's not really an opinion but rather, stating a level of interest. Also, your statement indicates that you do in fact care but I suspect that was not what you meant.

Regardless, that's sad. You should absolutely care about something like this.

[2KVALKRIDER]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Anvil]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

[2KVALKRIDER]

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[Rams]

I agree, we really don't know what happened, what we do know is Al Sharpton will come out the winner regardless of what really happened.  Tensions will be drawn tight and more crap will follow.  

I personally have no issue with what ever a grand jury comes up with.  If they charge Zimmerman, fine.  If a jury finds him guilty, then so be it.  But regardless of what happens, Sharpton will work it to his agenda.  

It's a shame this even happened but, no one (except Al Sharpton) has any insight as to what really happened.  I'll let the Grand Jury decide and hopefully hear/see some evidence before I make up my mind.