Better Brakes?

[Hedgehog]

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried to improve brakes over stock?

I was thinking about complete replacement as I already have steel lines and EBC pads. Stock brakes work fine (all overhauled) and will lock the wheels if grabbed hard, but not powerful enough when 2 up.

Anyone tried a transplant (Brembos?) or even ABS? Possibly new front end?

I was wondering whether the GL1800 ABS set up would be transferable?

Thanks

HH

[R J]

Are you saying you can not lock up the rear wheel 2 up?

I'd suggest adjusting the pedal up a little bit and try that.

Even my big Goodyear Triple Tread, I can lock it up 2 up if I want to.

I have stock rear brakes, rotors and pads.

Personally, I'd like to know why the hell you want to lock it up.  A locked up wheel via the brake, you done did lost 90% of the control over that wheel.

If you think you need to lock them up, may I suggest you go to an MSF course, maybe the advanced one.

If I'm riding in a group with you, I want your butt in FRONT of me.    That way I can ride around your little miscue.

[Hedgehog]

Guess you got out of bed the wrong side RJ  - no need to take it out on others though. little more consideration  and thought before you post would be nice. Yours is the first and only negative attitude I've experienced on this excellent forum.

I am actually an advanced rider (police pursuit trained) with 30 years experience, including race and road. I've ridden not only in my own country, but also across the world.

I'm afraid you've missed the point entirely.  Clearly no one would want to lock a wheel due to the loss of control that would follow. The point is that maximum braking occurs just before the point of lock, hence maximum braking can involve  brakes powerful enough to do this and a rider who knows just how much or how little force to apply.

There are also other things to consider. Maximum braking effort on the wheel is only part of it. There is also the question of immediacy of bite and progression, not to mention tyre grip, suspension, dive, weight loading etc..

I'm looking for a solution that improves stopping distance overall - through a combination of the above. Ideally maximum grip (suggestions re tyres welcome - I'm running Avon Cobras), better and more immediate bite, more power possibly but also progression. ABS is a thought as it prevents  lock up which can happen to any rider under the right circumstances.

Simple really.

[9Ball]

I suppose you could look for aftermarket six piston calipers, etc. but the Valkyrie has been on the top 10 list in MCN for stopping distance almost since the bike came out.  I think your upgrade of the SS lines is about all you are going to be able to do without spending considerable time and money with no guarantee of better results.  The EBC brake pads will accelerate wear on your OEM rotors, so I'll assume they are providing extra friction.

Good luck on your search....

[Hedgehog]

Thanks JRH - I know that the Valk has a good reputation for braking - I am quite a demanding rider - its a good handling bike and I do ride it with 'enthusiasm'. I'm also two up a lot and I'm a bit of a heavy old porker.

I could also add that UK roads are often wet and covered in fuel / farm manure and mud and with heavy traffic (at least the rural ones are). so getting good brakes

I was just wondering if any improvement existed is all.... I'm also wondering if a better way to go would be looking at tyre grip .... clearly the better the grip the less likely a wheel is to lock, and the shorter the stopping distance will be (all other things being equal). ???

I've got Cobras on - and they are OK, but not the grippiest I've ever known...

HH

[ricoman]

Nothing wrong with RJ's post.
You seem to seek "lock up" with 2 up as a standard for better stopping-it isn't.
Maybe looking/planning ahead would lessen your need to stomp on the binders.
ABS would be nice, I think you'll find the cost would be more than you could imagine.
Why not just get a Wing with ABS?

[Valkpilot]

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried to improve brakes over stock?

I was thinking about complete replacement as I already have steel lines and EBC pads. Stock brakes work fine (all overhauled) and will lock the wheels if grabbed hard, but not powerful enough when 2 up.

Anyone tried a transplant (Brembos?) or even ABS? Possibly new front end?

I was wondering whether the GL1800 ABS set up would be transferable?

Thanks

HH

Are your EBC pads sintered metallic or organic (Kevlar?)  Organic pads, while easier on rotors and less expensive, will not bite as quickly unless already heated up.

[Philthy]

On my all stock recently rebuilt brakes IS I have no problem with 2 up riding.

I understand being a demanding rider, but when 2 up, it might be time to demand a bit less.  After all, at least in my case, when 2 up I've added roughly 15% to the weight of the bike.  That's about the same as a cage going from just the driver to four people...you definately notice the extra braking required.

From a purely economic standpoint it would be cheaper and easier to lose weight than try retrofitting some sort of ABS to a non-ABS bike.  As a bonus, for me anyway, I found that losing 20lbs off my gut actually increased the ease of controlling this beast at low speeds.

When I get around to it I'm putting SS lines on the front, just to increase my control, but that's about all I can think of as far as improving brake performance goes, other than regularly replacing the fluid.

I wholeheartedly disagree with folks who believe metallic pads offer better braking for street use.  Unless you are riding up to the bike's limit, which is highly unwise on the street, all they do is eat the rotors, make noise, and actually reduce braking power most of the time.  OEM pads, with their nice and soft organic compound, provide much better grip with normal riding.

CS

[Gryphon Rider]

In the 11 years I've owned my Valkyrie and participated in the VRCC message boards, paying extra attention to technical and safety improvements that can be done to the Valkyrie, I've never heard of anyone attempting an ABS conversion.  If ABS was an available option when I bought my Valkyrie, I would have purchased it.  I, for one, think our brakes SHOULD be powerful enough to lock up both wheels, even when fully loaded with a passenger.  I can't say I've ever practised emergency braking with a passenger, but I have practised solo where I've had both wheels skidding for the last 12 inches or so.  The only pads other than OEM I've tried on the Valk were DP Brakes HH and I wasn't happy with them.  Initial bite when wet was poor, and I needed to pump up the fluid pressure with the lever when they were cold.

[Ken Tarver]

I could also add that UK roads are often wet and covered in fuel / farm manure and mud and with heavy traffic (at least the rural ones are).

I would think the above stated road conditions, and other circumstances, would require an adjustment in riding style and speed....just saying.

Ken

[csj]

Last year I had the opportunity to test-ride a Triumph Rocket III.

That thing has got to be AS heavy, if not more, than the Valk.
It was able to stop from 60 mph in approx. 1/2 the distance
that the Valk would. Very impressive brakes.

And this applies to three other Triumph bikes I took out that day.
Massively better stopping power.

I would then wonder if Triumph braking components could be
purchased, transferred to the Phat Lady.

[ricoman]

Last year I had the opportunity to test-ride a Triumph Rocket III.

That thing has got to be AS heavy, if not more, than the Valk.
It was able to stop from 60 mph in approx. 1/2 the distance
that the Valk would. Very impressive brakes.

And this applies to three other Triumph bikes I took out that day.
Massively better stopping power.

I would then wonder if Triumph braking components could be
purchased, transferred to the Phat Lady.

Rocket III weighs 807 to 869 depending on model-no too much different from a Valk.
Swapping any ABS components to a bike not designed for or with, would be waaay expensive, but not impossible. Impossible justs costs more.

[Ricky-D]

Experimenting with different composition brake pads and rotors would be the way to secure better braking power.

Thinking different caliper assemblies, would or could be an answer, denies the complexity of the master cylinder to brake caliper relationship which is fundamental to good working brakes.

There was a thread years past that went into characteristics of braking depending upon pad and rotor material. There's plenty of information available to get the best braking for your Valkyrie. Searching the web is the answer.

I'm fairly skeptical regarding the issue.

***

[old2soon]

When i was racing on a fairly regular basis there was one question that was ALWAYS a constant. That question was-how fast ya wanna spend?? So in yer case how much are you willing to spend fer maybe a slight improvement of stopping power. Is the CASH outlay(only you can determine this)worth the improvement you're seeking?? When i was driving truck or racing motorcycles or racing cars or racing boats it was always and always will be-adjusting to the conditions you are presented with at that time. I can with stock brakes stop better than a lot of heavy cruisers. The crotch rockets got me beat in most categories-except comfort. Please let us know what you decide and if you do come up with a better braking system-clue us in on the COST. RIDE SAFE.

[Hoser]

If you put the EBC pads with  EBC rotors they will perform better, although I see no need for it on my bike, I prefer not to lock up my tires.
To each his own.  Hoser   

[BIG--T]

I have locked mine down 4 times in a little over a year. The last time wasn't the brake's fault but needed a tire. I was 2 up twice and the last 2, just me. A car pulled out looking right at me in a nanno second, I locked her down so hard smoke was coming from both tires like a burnout and I was holding on like a monkey fish tailing side to side and missing him by an inch or so!! 

Now I've had my VTX 1800 for several years and the brakes are linked and I never once have locked her down....so far. It has tremendous stopping power and  lots cheaper than abs.

Also the VTX and Valkyrie are very similar, obivously not the engine, so that could be a cheaper alternative if your are so inclined to do it.  Just my $.02!   

[Hedgehog]

Nothing wrong with RJ's post.
You seem to seek "lock up" with 2 up as a standard for better stopping-it isn't.
Maybe looking/planning ahead would lessen your need to stomp on the binders.
ABS would be nice, I think you'll find the cost would be more than you could imagine.
Why not just get a Wing with ABS?

Hi Ricoman,

Again, I'm afraid you need to read my post more clearly. No one wants to lock up the brakes - that would be inefficient.

The point is to have controllable power. Enough to apply rapid deceleration WITHOUT locking. I would hardly be looking for ABS if I wanted to lock up - now would I?!


The question was quite a simple one - is it possible to improve the braking? My guess is that it is - but the question then becomes how much would it cost and would it be worth it?

The comments about slowing down, leaving more distance etc. are of course all correct - better not to have to need to jam on the anchors at all. On the other hand folks do some pretty daft things and I would always be interested in finding better ways of avoiding them - including better stopping power and control.

Many thanks for the helpful comments.

[Hoser]

This should improve your brakes.  Hoser
http://www.powersportsplace.com/parts/ebp-md1014x/overview/vehicle-type/other-rides/year/1999/make/honda/model/gl1500ct-valkyrie-tour

[BIG--T]

Nothing wrong with RJ's post.
You seem to seek "lock up" with 2 up as a standard for better stopping-it isn't.
Maybe looking/planning ahead would lessen your need to stomp on the binders.
ABS would be nice, I think you'll find the cost would be more than you could imagine.
Why not just get a Wing with ABS?

Hi Ricoman,

Again, I'm afraid you need to read my post more clearly. No one wants to lock up the brakes - that would be inefficient.

The point is to have controllable power. Enough to apply rapid deceleration WITHOUT locking. I would hardly be looking for ABS if I wanted to lock up - now would I?!


The question was quite a simple one - is it possible to improve the braking? My guess is that it is - but the question then becomes how much would it cost and would it be worth it?

The comments about slowing down, leaving more distance etc. are of course all correct - better not to have to need to jam on the anchors at all. On the other hand folks do some pretty daft things and I would always be interested in finding better ways of avoiding them - including better stopping power and control.

Many thanks for the helpful comments.

Inter linking your front and rear brakes or  abs would be all I can think of. Good luck!   

[Fudd]

Has anybody ever tried a set of "TCB" (traction control brakes) aftermarket abs systems?

http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com/index.html

[T.P.]

Let's not be so hard on HEDGHOG,  there was something back some time, when someone here fitted the VTX 3 piston calipers to their Valkyrie.  T.P.

[BIG--T]

Has anybody ever tried a set of "TCB" (traction control brakes) aftermarket abs systems?

http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com/index.html

If that works like they claim, it's a cheap and easier alternative!  Wonder if anyone has them here?

[Tigerpawse]

Hedgehog,

PreTech makes a direct bolt-on six piston caliper for the Valk.  I have a set and they work quite well.  They take easily found pads from a Yamaha FZR 1000 94-96 or a TRIUMPH Daytona Super III (3 cyl) 94-97



http://www.pretech.co.uk/

[Fudd]

If the claims made by TCBbrakesystems are true, that would be a remarkable change in braking preformance.

At 35 mph:  18.5' with TCB, 29.33' without.

That's nearly 37% shorter stopping distance.

Money is just too tight for me to "try 'em out," however if someone else did and concured with the claim.......

Man, 37% shorter stopping distance!  That could be the difference between arriving AT the scene of the wreck and just scareing yourself a little.

[R J]

Hedgehog, I'm assuming now that you are from across the pond.

Where did you take your motor riding for Police Work?

I did mine at the CHP Academy Driving range.

We were taught to NOT lock up a wheel, if it locks, back off and hit it again.

I did a lot of dirt track racing in the San Francisco, CA area in 1950, 51 & 52.   We used to ask other riders, what do you use your brakes for?    Never did get a good answer to that question.

Also did some ice racing and we didn't have brake one on those bikes.

We both seem to have a good share of the same habits, but I still do not like to even think about locking up a wheel.

So from what I'm hearing now, I must have mis read your post.    For that, I'll say I'm sorry, otherwise, I stick to my post.    Questions asked and responses.

[BIG--T]

If the claims made by TCBbrakesystems are true, that would be a remarkable change in braking preformance.

At 35 mph:  18.5' with TCB, 29.33' without.

That's nearly 37% shorter stopping distance.

Money is just too tight for me to "try 'em out," however if someone else did and concured with the claim.......

Man, 37% shorter stopping distance!  That could be the difference between arriving AT the scene of the wreck and just scareing yourself a little.

Man that is true, and  let's hope someone tell us all about them! 

[Robert]

I have the EBC wave rotors and HH pads no fad quicker stops more control when stopping will do what you tell them to do. Easier to judge and control when making stops you can get them to just shy the point of locking up without lockup. Easier to keep there with no fade also.

[John U.]

I have the EBC wave rotors and HH pads no fad quicker stops more control when stopping will do what you tell them to do. Easier to judge and control when making stops you can get them to just shy the point of locking up without lockup. Easier to keep there with no fade also.

Thank you Robert for a useful review of a brake pad and rotor combination. Considering that Valkyrie brakes can be locked up at will (assuming the required hand strength), it follows that other than ABS, rider skill combined with user friendly components are the critical variables.
Personally I have not found the Valks brakes to be wanting in high speed and mountain riding. I too am a critical brake user, I insist that the brakes stop me and the bike before something else does.

[Valkpilot]

I wholeheartedly disagree with folks who believe metallic pads offer better braking for street use.  Unless you are riding up to the bike's limit, which is highly unwise on the street, all they do is eat the rotors, make noise, and actually reduce braking power most of the time.  OEM pads, with their nice and soft organic compound, provide much better grip with normal riding.

CS

The engineers at EBC don't agree with you:

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/organic_brake_pads/organic.shtml

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/sintered_brake_pads/double_h_superbike_pads/double-h.shtml

OEM pads are sintered metallic, not organic.

[Philthy]

I wholeheartedly disagree with folks who believe metallic pads offer better braking for street use.  Unless you are riding up to the bike's limit, which is highly unwise on the street, all they do is eat the rotors, make noise, and actually reduce braking power most of the time.  OEM pads, with their nice and soft organic compound, provide much better grip with normal riding.

CS

The engineers at EBC don't agree with you:

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/organic_brake_pads/organic.shtml

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/sintered_brake_pads/double_h_superbike_pads/double-h.shtml

OEM pads are sintered metallic, not organic.

The question here is, does this come from the engineering department, or the marketing department?

There is so much snake oil out there that any and all advertising is best taken with a grain of salt...in some cases the whole shaker.

This is especially true with automotive stuff.

The "engineers" aren't going to agree with me, because if they did, they'd be out of a job.

I've never heard of a major manufacturer using metallic pads on mass produced vehicles.  I suppose it's possible, but I think it unlikely.

Whether they are or not, I can feel a big difference in braking using OEM pads, whether in a cage or on a bike.  Back in the day metallic pads and shoes were all the rage, but that faded quickly when folks ended up having to use more force to brake, and found their rotors and drums way out of speck and requiring replacement.

CS

[Ricky-D]

I think that "sintered" and "metallic" refer to the same types of material when discussing brake pads.

The are some who will argue differently but do not offer any substantiation except opinion.

Sintering is the term used to define "atomic diffusion.

In the brake world it describes a process to make brake pads from metallic particles, but it can also be applied to ceramic pads so a better definition is useful.

Metallic is a catchall term and can apply to any pads that contain metallic particles, regardless of form.

The two main categories of brake material, I feel, is "organic" and "metallic". Ceramic notwithstanding.

***

[Hedgehog]

Hedgehog, I'm assuming now that you are from across the pond.

Where did you take your motor riding for Police Work?

I did mine at the CHP Academy Driving range.

We were taught to NOT lock up a wheel, if it locks, back off and hit it again.

I did a lot of dirt track racing in the San Francisco, CA area in 1950, 51 & 52.   We used to ask other riders, what do you use your brakes for?    Never did get a good answer to that question.





.




Also did some ice racing and we didn't have brake one on those bikes.

We both seem to have a good share of the same habits, but I still do not like to even think about locking up a wheel.

So from what I'm hearing now, I must have mis read your post.    For that, I'll say I'm sorry, otherwise, I stick to my post.    Questions asked and responses.

That's OK RJ, its easy to get the wrong impression from a post. It takes a man to apologize and I respect you for that.

Yeah I'm from England (Mom spent a long time in the states though and married three of you fellas - long story)...Most of my training has been with IAM and ROSPA, both of which use police and ex police for training and serving cops for examination (at least mine was). Usually a course consists of theory plus observed rides and car park stuff but I got my examiner to give me some extra time for some things, including pursuit. It took me about six months at once every 2 weeks, but without the extra would have been half that..

I passed the IAM exam and the guy reckoned I scored about low to middle of the standard required for UK police when they first start pursuit / advanced (so still a long way to go!) But I was pleased with that. Those guys are really good.. far better than I'll ever be.

I've also done a little off road, some track work and riding in Asia, Europe and of course the UK. About a quarter of a million miles over 30 odd years at a guess. Only two spills so far and one was on snow. Still learning though!!

The way the police taught me brake control was to push to the limit - experience lock up (in training) and a slide and then back off. In the real world you'd obviously want to avoid lock at all costs unless you deliberately want to lay the machine down, in which case a rear wheel slide can be induced. Mostly its about braking hard, and just below the level needed for lock up. In a way you need to know where the limit is in order to avoid going there...Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

My aim is to see if the already good Valk brakes can be improved. There is a firm in the UK (Mr Billet) that makes 6 pot calipers that bolt straight on to the Valk and use all other existing bits... their real benefit seems to be more progressive braking as well as a bit more power.  The cost is about $1000. Web address is : www.billet.co.uk

 I don't think ABS or linking are going to be realistic options due to complexity and cost.


I may try the 'uprated' calipers though just to see- I like trying new stuff - I'm testing the new fuel gauge for Joop at the moment - if I do then I'll do a write up here with measured results.

Needless to say, the thing that needs most improvement in this case  is the rider...

HH

[Valkpilot]

I wholeheartedly disagree with folks who believe metallic pads offer better braking for street use.  Unless you are riding up to the bike's limit, which is highly unwise on the street, all they do is eat the rotors, make noise, and actually reduce braking power most of the time.  OEM pads, with their nice and soft organic compound, provide much better grip with normal riding.

CS

The engineers at EBC don't agree with you:

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/organic_brake_pads/organic.shtml

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/sintered_brake_pads/double_h_superbike_pads/double-h.shtml

OEM pads are sintered metallic, not organic.

The question here is, does this come from the engineering department, or the marketing department?

There is so much snake oil out there that any and all advertising is best taken with a grain of salt...in some cases the whole shaker.

This is especially true with automotive stuff.

The "engineers" aren't going to agree with me, because if they did, they'd be out of a job.

I've never heard of a major manufacturer using metallic pads on mass produced vehicles.  I suppose it's possible, but I think it unlikely.

Whether they are or not, I can feel a big difference in braking using OEM pads, whether in a cage or on a bike.  Back in the day metallic pads and shoes were all the rage, but that faded quickly when folks ended up having to use more force to brake, and found their rotors and drums way out of speck and requiring replacement.

CS

There's a good discussion of this topic in this thread. http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,13708.0.html


CA, in particular, offers valuable insight and references.

[R J]

That's OK RJ, its easy to get the wrong impression from a post. It takes a man to apologize and I respect you for that.

Yeah I'm from England (Mom spent a long time in the states though and married three of you fellas - long story)...Most of my training has been with IAM and ROSPA, both of which use police and ex police for training and serving cops for examination (at least mine was). Usually a course consists of theory plus observed rides and car park stuff but I got my examiner to give me some extra time for some things, including pursuit. It took me about six months at once every 2 weeks, but without the extra would have been half that..

I passed the IAM exam and the guy reckoned I scored about low to middle of the standard required for UK police when they first start pursuit / advanced (so still a long way to go!) But I was pleased with that. Those guys are really good.. far better than I'll ever be.

I've also done a little off road, some track work and riding in Asia, Europe and of course the UK. About a quarter of a million miles over 30 odd years at a guess. Only two spills so far and one was on snow. Still learning though!!

The way the police taught me brake control was to push to the limit - experience lock up (in training) and a slide and then back off. In the real world you'd obviously want to avoid lock at all costs unless you deliberately want to lay the machine down, in which case a rear wheel slide can be induced. Mostly its about braking hard, and just below the level needed for lock up. In a way you need to know where the limit is in order to avoid going there...Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

My aim is to see if the already good Valk brakes can be improved. There is a firm in the UK (Mr Billet) that makes 6 pot calipers that bolt straight on to the Valk and use all other existing bits... their real benefit seems to be more progressive braking as well as a bit more power.  The cost is about $1000. Web address is : www.billet.co.uk

 
I may try the 'uprated' calipers though just to see- I like trying new stuff - I'm testing the new fuel guage for Joop at the moment - if I do then I'll do a write up here with measured results.

Needless to say, the thing that needs most improvement in this case  is the rider...

HH

Our circle dirt track car we have those calipers on it, at all 4 wheels.     Our machine has been able to avoid 99% of the collisions on the track due to stupidity.   

Our driver says they were the best thing we did to the car.    He also likes the exhaust system we built for it to get a huge hunk of Torque.    Driver says he can hit the brakes drop a gear and stand on the throttle and walk off and leave all the cars except for a couple that are in the top 5 points position with our driver and car.    As of last Saturday night we are still in 3rd place.    Gained a position 3 weeks ago and can't seem to gain any more.    We have a super bunch of drivers and competition.

[Valkpilot]

I think that "sintered" and "metallic" refer to the same types of material when discussing brake pads.

The two main categories of brake material, I feel, is "organic" and "metallic". Ceramic notwithstanding.

***

Ricky-D, I think you are correct relative to modern brake pads.

Some info on sintering: http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/sintered_brake_pads/sintering.shtml

Automobile-focused, but has good definitions of pad materials: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/brake-pads-what-to-look-for/index.htm

[tmfp]

I find myself using the back brake more when riding a Valk than other bikes, maybe it's the weight.
I have two 97 Standards, one with OEM rear pads and one with EBC HHs, both with stock discs.
For the way I ride (reasonably quickly solo, on rural roads), I prefer the EBC's, much less fade, more feel thus avoiding lockups, and none of the noise that I've read about.
They seem to be lasting better than OEM and I haven't noticed any of the much mentioned disc rotor wear, but I've only done about 10,000 miles on them. If I do have to replace the rotors a bit early, it'll be a good excuse to get some trick ones.
I'll be going with the EBC's all round on both bikes when replacement time comes.

As others have said, this looks interesting and not too snake oily http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com/

[Hedgehog]

Thanks guys. Lots of helpful information, which is gratefully received.

A plan is forming in the Hedgehog brain... (a small plan; its a small brain).


I think I will fit EBC rotors (already got their pads and steel lines) and at the same time fit repair kits to the master cylinders (just to make sure I'm getting the best out of them  - the rest of the system has already been replaced with new components - pistons, seals etc so these are the only possible weak link in the OE system). Then I'll see how that is.

If still not what I want then I'll go for the 6 pot calipers.

The issue seems to be getting enough braking force without inducing lock up too easily.

Regarding the rear brake thing tmpf, my understanding is that cruiser geometry means that less weight transfer forward happens under braking (which for other bikes increases pressure by the tyre on the road, thereby assisting grip) -  meaning that front brakes cannot be too large if lock up is to be avoided.

To compensate for this, manufacturers fit larger discs to the rear than on other bikes (sport bike rears are much smaller) and so you are quite correct to use rear brakes more than you would on a 'normal' bike. This is what one is supposed to do on a cruiser. In other words...you are doing by instinct what the bike tells you is right for it (I think...!).

[tmfp]

Off topic Hedgehog, glad that things worked out so you didn't have to sell your bike 
We must meet up for a cup of tea and a blast around sometime.

[Hedgehog]

Thanks TMPF - yes it was a close call, but I got another job (lower grade but better than the dole) so can keep the old girl.

Will be back in action soon, so will arrange for a ride out - what about Weston-super-Mud?

HH

[sandy]

The PreTech website shows a Valk caliper as being a P820 part number. They show the 1990 vfr750 as using the same part number. Im going to look for a set of used calipers  and rebuild them.