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97ValkSteve
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« on: October 05, 2013, 04:09:50 PM » |
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Documented my starting problems here: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,60469.0.htmlHad her hauled to the mechanic yesterday. He's very good and specializes in Goldwings and Valkyries. His initial diagnosis is the starter itself since he can't get it to spin even powering it directly. He rolled it in gear so that indicates no hydrolock. What he or I dont know for sure is IF a new/different starter will fix the problem and/or what caused it. It's pretty unusual to have the starter go bad, isn't it? Anyone else have a starter go kaput? I can get a new starter for about $650. Does anyone sell rebuilds? I know rebuild kits are available but he doesn't do the kits and I don't want to either. Anyway, he's still doing some trouble shooting but wanted to pick y'all's collective brains again. Thanks. Steve |
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mmurffy03
Member
Posts: 791
03 standard
toms river new jersey
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2013, 04:34:52 PM » |
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hell I would push start my bike all the time before I spent 650.00 for a starter does that include installation labor ? check your local phone book a guy in my town just rebuilds starters and alternators at his shop gotta be cheeper that 650.00 ebay has a kit for $122.00 or buy it now complete for $225.00 or $509.00 from Honda direct online
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« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 05:19:36 PM by mmurffy03 »
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 05:03:54 PM » |
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before dropping $650 on a starter. If you are sure the starter button is good and the relay is good, battery is good. I would remove the ground wire from the engine casing and sand and clean all the connections....maybe even find a place on the frame to ground it to the steel frame. A bad ground can do this too. Also dirty battery connections have fooled many a rider
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John Schmidt
Member
Posts: 15240
a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike
De Pere, WI (Green Bay)
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 05:20:19 PM » |
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There's a number of used ones on Ebay priced from around $70 to $250. If I were you I'd learn how to do some of the work myself, but only after I bought a Honda shop manual. Removing the starter is a bit of a pain, but it would be a cold day in July before I'd drop $650.
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2013, 06:14:21 PM » |
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Well, logically, the fact they sell rebuild kits for Valkyrie starter motors indicate they go bad. And what goes bad is replaced commonly by the kit. You have seemed to run down virtually all the alternate possibilities and now are left with a starter that your Mechanic has issues with when he tries to power it directly. Pretty damning evidence right there. I am assuming that he determined that the power was good to that point? My suggestion would be to find someone in your area that can and will rebuild it for you. Have your Mech. remove it, you get it and take to the specialist to rebuild it, take it back to the Mech, have him install it. Probably get it done for quite a bit less than $650. A quick search doesn't come up with rebuilt ones for sale. Seems either the rebuild kit or new. Then post how that didn't work at all and .... No, it'll work LOL  I'm thinking you are more or less looking for folks to concur with your conclusion that you must replace/rebuild the starter. I concur. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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97ValkSteve
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2013, 07:06:08 PM » |
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"Well, logically, the fact they sell rebuild kits for Valkyrie starter motors indicate they go bad. And what goes bad is replaced commonly by the kit." True dat. But reading through reams of starter posts, I couldn't find any that had the starter just up and dying. They all were either left up in the air or it turned out to be the battery, start switch, relay etc. If we decide to try replacing the starter, would it make sense (if he doesn't do it anyway) to remove it and try powering it again off the bike BEFORE buying a different one? Chris I'll ask him Monday about grounds nd such. John, I've got a Clymer shop manual but unless its real simple I just ain't comfortable with doing much of my own work. Thanks for the eBay info. This sucks
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2013, 07:25:50 PM » |
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If it were me, I would run jumpers from a known good power source directly to the starter, if it turns over, look elsewhere for the problem. If it doesn't replace it with a used one or rebuild it.
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 Troy, MI |
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97ValkSteve
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2013, 08:28:16 PM » |
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If it were me, I would run jumpers from a known good power source directly to the starter, if it turns over, look elsewhere for the problem. If it doesn't replace it with a used one or rebuild it.
Yeah, he did that today. Starter doesn't turn. Now if you take it out of the bike and it still doesn't turn then I assume that's 100% positive bad starter but IF that is the case I hope I can find out why. Durn! |
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Rio Wil
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2013, 09:12:25 PM » |
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This is not rocket science especially if you have connected a good battery directly to the starter and it doesn't spin, it does have a problem....bad brushes or maybe an open winding in the armature. Plus this probably is the ONLY starter that actually failed in the history of the Valkyrie!!!!!
I would suggest you find a nice looking one on ebay for 60-70 bucks, install and forget it.........
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Six-Cylinder Hooligan
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 07:22:04 AM » |
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Try finding an alternator/starter rebuild shop in your area. I just recently had alternator trouble on my I/S. First tried replacing the brushes b/c my Dad had a spare set in his garage... No luck there. I took my old alt to an automotive eletrical rebuild shop & the guy had one from a Goldwing sitting on the shelf! $105 out the door plus my old core... I was back on the road in 2.5-hours. |
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97ValkSteve
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 10:28:10 AM » |
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PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!  The winning helpful hint goes to ChrisJ. It was a bad ground wire connection. Actually, I remember reading in a different thread, John Schmidt recommending to someone cleaning the ground wire where it connected to the engine block. I did get down on my belly and inspected it but it looked perfect to me but looks can be deceiving, obviously. The mechanic thought for sure it was the starter itself after he powered it directly with no spinning and checking for hydrolock. But after putting a new starter in, guess what? It didn't spin either! That's when they finally tried removing the ground wire bolt and wire brushing the hell out of it and the all around the connection. There was no visible corrosion but there must have been something there because it works fine now. Gary (the mechanic) said it was a bear getting that bolt off but he had an easier time than I would have. He ate the cost of the starter so it wasn't too much after all. I'm out the cost of a new battery and a starter relay although I was probably coming up on needing a new battery anyway. Also, I know a little more about my bike now but still am dumb as a stump. Thanks for all your helpful input and hints. Steve Yaaay!!! I can go riding tomorrow morning! |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 12:02:30 PM » |
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PROBLEM SOLVED!!!! The winning helpful hint goes to ChrisJ. It was a bad ground wire connection. Actually, I remember reading in a different thread, John Schmidt recommending to someone cleaning the ground wire where it connected to the engine block. I did get down on my belly and inspected it but it looked perfect to me but looks can be deceiving, obviously. The mechanic thought for sure it was the starter itself after he powered it directly with no spinning and checking for hydrolock. But after putting a new starter in, guess what? It didn't spin either! That's when they finally tried removing the ground wire bolt and wire brushing the hell out of it and the all around the connection. There was no visible corrosion but there must have been something there because it works fine now. Gary (the mechanic) said it was a bear getting that bolt off but he had an easier time than I would have. He ate the cost of the starter so it wasn't too much after all. I'm out the cost of a new battery and a starter relay although I was probably coming up on needing a new battery anyway. Also, I know a little more about my bike now but still am dumb as a stump. Thanks for all your helpful input and hints. Steve Yaaay!!! I can go riding tomorrow morning! Great I'll send you my bill  |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8727
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 04:28:00 PM » |
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I'd like to know how your "mechanic" jumped the starter and it still didn't work. If he truly jumped the starter, the bad ground would have been eliminated. I'd be a little leery of taking my bike to him again.
Don't forget to pay Chris.
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Troy, MI |
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 08:40:16 PM » |
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I'd like to know how your "mechanic" jumped the starter and it still didn't work. If he truly jumped the starter, the bad ground would have been eliminated. I'd be a little leery of taking my bike to him again.
Don't forget to pay Chris.
He probably didn't really understand the electrical system. Our shop teacher in high school would conk you on the head if you didn't use the negative and positive terminals or anything. If it failed, then you moved the ground cable to the frame. If there was a strap from the engine to the frame, it would roll her over. If not, then you had a bad connection. |
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44 Harley ServiCar   |
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da prez
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 01:16:41 PM » |
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A lot of mechanics assume ( you know what that means) that a ground looks good. The only way is to remove ,clean , di-electric lube(air tight connection) and re-assemble. New battery connections should be cleaned also. V E R I F I Y your ground connections first. A lot of batteries get sold at the first cold snap because of this mistake.
da prez
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