Factory Pro Jet Help

[PeaGoody]

Just received my Factory Pro Jet kit from HDL today and I am a little confused.  I have read on this board about using 110 main jets with the 38 slow jets.  Well, the kit I got came with four #102's, four #98's, four #105's and two #95's.  Can I get a little direction on the install?  I am running stock exhaust.  Can I stay with the stock 100 main jets and needles and just replace the slow jets with the 38's and readjust the pilots?  If I have to change out the mains, which ones should I use in this kit?  And, if the needles have to be replaced, what adjustment on these do I use?  I checked out ShopTalk for direction and it seems I just have to replace the slow jets and readjust the pilots.  I have been forced to make a change because the 97' beast began to starve for fuel a few weeks back.  I am the second owner and there has never been any service perfomed on the carbs in the past.  I used carb cleaner in the gas on a regular basis since taking ownership 4 years ago.  Any guidance will be greatly appreciated.

[Robert]

You need to go on line and find the install directions for the kit you bought or look at the ones they hopefully provided. The kit you bought is for the stock bike with few mods the mains will get the larger jets in the 4 cylinders that are not under the baffle the other 2 will actually get the smaller jets. The baffle stops air flow and there fore doesn't need the full 110s that the stage 2 kit comes with that requires you to remove the baffle. If you have a problem with the carbs like they may be dirty dont do a part job replace all the jets in the kit after cleaning the carbs. The needles need to be at position number 3 when done you will need to sync and adjust the carbs to really get the best results. If the kit you got did not come with instructions then you can go on line to factory pro and you will be able to get the instructions. They are good kits usually complete and good instructions. If you dont have any mod then stick with the kit you have but if you plan to do some mods then you may want to get the next kit up.

[Ricky-D]

PeaGoody writes: "I have been forced to make a change because the 97' beast began to starve for fuel a few weeks back."

I think that's probably a good reason to trash the motor and get a new one! I know these motors get ornery after a while and just like a wife, start demanding more, like in your case. More gas.

Actually, fact is that as motors get old they tend to tire out and need less gas and a higher idle to keep running. Reason being a loss of compression due to multiple factors.

Use whatever reason you desire, it doesn't matter to me, but doing what you propose will only cause you headaches and problems from the start and you will eventually become very frustrated and yearn to return to the time before you made the changes.

If you are having a problem with how the motor is running, you should solve the problem with correct repairs and not just throw money and aftermarket kits (and the like) in hopes of solving your problem.

[Ricky-D]

I only wish to make one more comment here on the suggestion that the Valkyrie motor is bipolar.

There have been strings in the past about the ill advised attempts to modifying the air box and I'm not suggesting that's being proposed in this thread.

What I am saying however is the idea of different cylinders of the Valkyrie having different requirements from each other is preposterous. And it's all related to the air box! Nonsense.

Do you actually think Honda would produce a motorcycle such as is being suggested?  I don't think so!  Honda historically has gone to extreme lengths spending thousands of hours and thousands of dollars to develop powerful and reliable motorcycles for over fifty years.

Aftermarket suppliers of aftermarket goodies and parts sell you a bill of goods aimed to get you to buy their products and make unsubstantiated claims of benefits derived from using their products. Evidently they are doing a good job!

[FLATSIX]

Peagoody,

do you have a US-version bike or an exportversion?

If it's an exportversion with airrestrictor then the demand for more fuel is easy to explain and easily solved !

[Robert]

Ricky D as usual you have made a strong statement before researching the truth of the statement I tried to find the post from the Factory Pro website so you could see for yourself what the truth is but to no avail. I did find this post from someone else that bought the kit posted here and decided to repost it here as it may kill 2 birds with one stone. It may help Peagoody and silence your objections. I dont think the Valk is bi polar but I have my questions about you. If you have any doubts about the role the airbox plays in regard to mixture I would suggest that you do a bit of research on people that have taken out the foam in the box and put a KN filter in there with not to good a result. Some have to run with the foam to even get their bikes to perform well. This means that the mixture is lean and without the foam correcting this lean side then its no good. If you carry this one step further to the air box baffle when taken out looses performance you will see that the airbox construction does indeed help to change fuel mixture. This on Hondas part is not bad and many modern vehicles use air boxes to control noise and the pulses from the intake. Like the headers tune the out flow airbox can help to tune the inflow. As long as its planed on in the design there is no problem. As for the idea that when motors get older they need less gas WRONG, because of incomplete combustion they need more. I also have never seen any vehicle that is running need more idle unless its on its death bed. The only thing that I can agree with is he should correct the problem but if you have to take the carbs apart to clean them then you might as well install a kit with new clean jets done according to instructions and more than likely if it is a carb problem then you will get it just about on the money. Because Factory Pro has done their homework so you dont have to.
http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prodh78.html
chnulleri
Member
*****
Posts: 1

Switzerland


   
   
Re: what jets are in the Factory pro carb kit ?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2009, 01:14:51 PM »
   
Hi there
I'm from Switzerland and I bought the factory pro kit CRB-H78-1.0
There are two main jets of 95 and each 4 of 98, 102 and 105 in it!
The slow jets of 38, adjustable needles and new carb screws with which it is much easier to open the bottom without taking all the carbs out of the frame!
For me it was unluckily the wrong kit because the valk in Europe has mainjets of 78!
Now I installed everything original again except the needles and I changed the springs to the softer ones of the interstate.
Factory Pro suggest to have the two front carbs with mainjets one size smaller than the other four, but the needle clip one position lower (needle will be higher like that!)
I'm still not happy with my valk because since that operation I have problems at 3000rpm with full throttle!
Even when EVERYTHING was original again this problem stayed on - but ONLY with FULL THROTTLE!
When I open the gas just 1/4 the engine will run up to 7500 rpm.
My mechanic thinks of a CID problem which unfortunatly occurred in the same time, but I can't believe it?!
Greetz from Switzerland

[98valk]

What I am saying however is the idea of different cylinders of the Valkyrie having different requirements from each other is preposterous. And it's all related to the air box! Nonsense.

maybe u need to research the latest tunning by nascar, engine masters, and top engine racing tunning in general, and that is they tune each cylinder as though it was an individual engine to max the total engine power.
Marc the owner of FactoryPro has shown on his 4 gas dyno that the front carbs of a stock valkyrie need different tunning.
With my air box and exhaust mods, I found also that the front carbs like different needle settings. I think the biggest reason is that the front carbs get their fuel supply from the middle carbs whereas the other ones receive the fuel directly from the tank. I would also surmise that airbox intake flow, exhaust pipe flow and the operating temp of the front carbs is different from the other four due to their location and limited airflow.

[PeaGoody]

I just wanted to know if I could get away with staying with the stock main jets, and needles and just switch out the slow jets to 38's.  I have an American Valk and I want to do as few mods as possible to get the carbs back up and running before I started having the problem.  Although the bike is a 97', there is only 32K on the odometer.  How bad could the compression be at this stage?  I have soaked the stock jets in commercial grade carb cleaner for two days which I think may have taken care of any blockage, but after reading some of the tech help on this board it sounded like the stock slow jets were not possible to clean, no matter what you did to them.  So, I decided to try the #38's without changing out the mains and the needles because I have read that the 38's do not clog as easily as the stock 35's.  I am not into spending hours and days trying to squeeze out every bit of power that Honda may have cheated us out of, just want to get back on the bike and ride.  So guys, keep it simple for me.  I appreciate all your opinions and wealth of hands-on information at this stage but it is not helping me with my original questions. 

[Robert]

You can do anything you want to as far as the jets its your bike. So now that we overshot the question lets see if we can still help. You can clean the stock jets its easy to see them if you hold a light up and look through the jet with the light shining behind it not directly but off to the side. If you cannot see the hole well then take a magnifying glass and look. You can even take something soft yet fairly stiff and put it through the jet to make sure its clean, just dont get it stuck or broken off. Also dont take anything metal that will scratch the surface as it will change the jets characteristics. The best though is usually compressed air blown through and hold on to the jet so it doesn't fly out of your hand. Lets see where did that jet go? dont ask. The 38 slow will give you better bottom end I only suggest that you replace the others also if you have them out, because you are already there. If not then no harm not to, just clean and reinstall the original jets. The mains for the kit should be 4/102 in cylinders 3,4,5,6, and 2/98 1,2 install the needles on #3 in all the carbs. This will be conservative and not a big difference more than likely it will be just enough to improve some lacking areas. The easiest way to go is keep the original mains and put in the Factory Pro slow jets and the needles. The needles are so easy to adjust and it will give you a noticeable difference from idle all the way up to 3/4 throttle maybe a bit more. Like I said you can keep all the originals if you want. The 38s will clog too if fuel is left in the carbs for awhile so dont switch only thinking that you have solved a maintenance problem. You can have the bike all stock and still switch the jets and you will notice a difference. They will be ,smoother idle, quicker acceleration, smoother cruising and believe it or not maybe better mileage. I have a inline filter and would suggest that you also install one while you are doing the servicing. If you have indeed come this far then mechanical ability is enough to finish the job with the Factory Pro Jets. They really do make it easy and there is not allot of adjusting and experimentation to get it right, just install the jets and set the needle and thats usually it. The kit should have come with a blue instruction sheet if you have any doubts either follow that or just call them up. I may even have one laying around here somewhere that I can post the instructions. They are really good to deal with and very knowledgeable too. You haven't really described much about the original problem, so I hope your diagnosis is correct about the carbs. 

[98valk]

I just wanted to know if I could get away with staying with the stock main jets, and needles and just switch out the slow jets to 38's.  I have an American Valk and I want to do as few mods as possible to get the carbs back up and running before I started having the problem.  Although the bike is a 97', there is only 32K on the odometer.  How bad could the compression be at this stage?  I have soaked the stock jets in commercial grade carb cleaner for two days which I think may have taken care of any blockage, but after reading some of the tech help on this board it sounded like the stock slow jets were not possible to clean, no matter what you did to them.  So, I decided to try the #38's without changing out the mains and the needles because I have read that the 38's do not clog as easily as the stock 35's.  I am not into spending hours and days trying to squeeze out every bit of power that Honda may have cheated us out of, just want to get back on the bike and ride.  So guys, keep it simple for me.  I appreciate all your opinions and wealth of hands-on information at this stage but it is not helping me with my original questions. 

stock air box and stock exhaust the mains are fine. just put in the 38s and use the FP needles and adjust as they state which is one step richer front carbs. stay on the lean side of the needles other wise your mpg will go down

[Ricky-D]

maybe u need to research the latest tunning by nascar, engine masters, and top engine racing tunning in general, and that is they tune each cylinder as though it was an individual engine to max the total engine power.
Marc the owner of FactoryPro has shown on his 4 gas dyno that the front carbs of a stock valkyrie need different tunning.
With my air box and exhaust mods, I found also that the front carbs like different needle settings. I think the biggest reason is that the front carbs get their fuel supply from the middle carbs whereas the other ones receive the fuel directly from the tank. I would also surmise that airbox intake flow, exhaust pipe flow and the operating temp of the front carbs is different from the other four due to their location and limited airflow.

"maybe u need to research the latest tunning by nascar, engine masters, and top engine racing tunning in general, and that is they tune each cylinder as though it was an individual engine to max the total engine power." You would have to be a magician to relate this to what I said.   And oh yeah, my question would be what can they do other than register the spark plugs, which most of those race car motor mechanics say, they "doubt it helps much" if at all.

"Marc the owner of FactoryPro has shown on his 4 gas dyno that the front carbs of a stock valkyrie need different tunning."  Of course he would!  He's making the parts that he sells.  That just substantiates what I've been saying about marketing practices in relation to aftermarket parts.

What seems to be not refuted is the expertise and completeness of the Honda engineering and the quality of the final product. And those that tend to assume they can improve the Valkyrie by using black magic and voodoo.

[Ricky-D]

What seems to be not refuted is the expertise and completeness of the Honda engineering and the quality of the final product. And those that tend to assume they can improve the Valkyrie by using black magic and voodoo.

Ricky-D you seem to do everything except help people with their specific issues.  You don't believe that anything can be done to improve upon Honda engineering of the Valk even though there are many things that can be done do improve performance, gas mileage, and comfort.

Aftermarket items such as the Dyna 3000 (which is a definite improvement over the stock ICM), trigger wheels, certain exhausts and jet kits all improve the Valks performance and improve gas mileage as a side benefit.  Aftermarket seats, backrests, footpegs, shocks etc. improve the comfort and ride.  Windshields, air wings, pods etc. improve the airflow around the Valk.  

Honda engineers are not perfect and a stock Valkyrie doesn't meet everyone's needs.  Honda engineers would never design a clutch with rivets that are know to fail,  Honda engineers would never install an alternator that has been proven to have problems, or an emission system that is sure to develop vacuum leaks, or a petcock that WILL in time fail and possibly cause a hydrolock.  No, Honda engineers are good, but not perfect.

Instead of bashing anyone who wants to make an improvement to an already excellent machine, why don't you consider the benefits of such improvements and try to help a fellow out?

Not bashing just saying!

Sean

Well Sean, you ought to go back and read again.  You'll see I made a good suggestion. "If you are having a problem with how the motor is running, you should solve the problem with correct repairs and not just throw money and aftermarket kits (and the like) in hopes of solving your problem." This is probably the best advice PeaGoody has gotten. Maybe just not what some want to hear.

And you say you're not bashing but you start out saying:"Ricky-D you seem to do everything except help people with their specific issues"  Sure, you're not bashing are you.  There's a name for that, I just can't think of it right now.

Finally you are stating assumptions as being fact. I guess if you say it enough times it will become fact!

Judging the failure rate (of specific parts) in reference to units (on the road)you will find Honda is light years ahead of any and all aftermarket manufacturers of parts for Honda motors. The only exception being a simple part like the trigger wheel in which this particular case there are still problems with some.  I, by the way, do have a trigger wheel installed in my Valkyrie.

I have never commented about riding accessories or comfort items or anything like you infer, maybe you're just throwing in that kind of stuff to lend more credibility to what you say.

Maybe you should take a more evenhanded approach to what people offer on this forum and not just be a criticizer of what is posted.

Myself, I will always tell the best course of action to take, to repair something, I will not try to promote aftermarket devices and any other kind of junk upon unknowing Valkyrie riders (to their detriment).  The only exception to this is I ride on the "darkside".

So there you are Sean. Prove me wrong!!!

[PeaGoody]

Thanks Robert for bringing the subject back to my original help questions.  I should have metioned that the reason I suspect the carbs is because two weeks earlier the bike ran fine and over the past year I have noticed a little slower throttle response.  I started the bike with full choke as usual and had no problem.  As soon as I removed the choke the bike would stall out.  Back on full choke, the bike would start, give a little throttle, it would stall again.  Anyway, like I said I soaked all the jets for two days in Gunk carb and parts cleaner.  I also used some very small nylon brushes that are used to clean paint sprayer nozzels.  After close inspection with a small LED light, the jets appear to be clean.  I have been trying to get some feel from all the other Valk riders as to how to proceed.  I am getting a little tired of taking these babies in and out of the bike.  I think I may be heading for info overload from the tech board members and should maybe stick with my first idea, clean the OEM jets, carbs, pilots and put everthing back and see what happens.  I appreciate your help.  If I end up changing the jets, I will follow your ideas and advice.  Thanks for the help.

[Ricky-D]

PeaGoody, you're doing the smartest thing there buddy!

There could be many reasons for what you say "I have noticed a little slower throttle response"

Could be real or imagined, maybe simply getting more accustomed to the bike, I wouldn't be able to say.

But, I will say the carburetors are CV carburetors, you actually only control a butterfly in the carburetor, it's the slide that's doing the real controlling.  If the diaphragms are leaky the slides work slower. Having all (six) doing it is not realistic but, with one or maybe two leaking a bit, that would certainly cause a slower response.  Some Valkyrie riders switch out the slide springs with Interstate springs. I understand they are a lighter spring which allows the slide to rise in the carburetor faster.

Another reason could be the gasoline you are using. Trying different brands might yield better results for you. And ethanol enriched gasoline is another story. I hate it, and it definitely affect how my Valkyrie runs, so it could be doing the same to your bike.

Your motor not being able to idle can be caused by quite a few different things.

I'd suggest you check the ignition timing and you should perform a compression test on the cylinders.  On a poorly running (idling) motor a compression test is a "must do"

If those two items are good then I'd turn up the idle adjuster until it will idle.  Having done that I would then check the carburetors for synchronization.  If after turning up the idle adjustment the motor seems to overrun (not idle down properly) then there is definitely something amiss.  If you cannot get a reasonable synchronization I would then suggest assuring there are no vacuum leaks.

If you've done a partial de-smog you ought to go ahead and finish the job. There's many reports of poorly running motors being caused by the partial de-smog.

Oh yeah, that comment about selling the bike was only a jest. I hope you realize that.  I wasn't getting personal at all.

Well, if you do these things it will take you a long way to resolving the problem and maybe, just maybe solve you dilemma.

Let the thread know how you are coming, we are all interested I am sure.

 

[Robert]

I wanted to mention a couple of other things , it sounds like the idle circuit is clogged or I would also check that the fuel valve is not stopping the gas from flowing. Quite a few times those perfect fuel valves cause some real problems and mimicked carb problems. If you go for the carbs make sure you take out the idle adjustment screw and the emulsion tubes and blow air through them all and into the carb body through the idle mixture adj screw holes. On the idle mix screws there is a spring washers and oring so be careful not to loose something. On assembley lube the screws and oring so that in the furture you will be able to adjust them. The emulsion tubes are the little tubes that have holes on the side and at both ends. They are attached to the idle jets so you can get a idea what they look like. I have included a few links that may also help. If you go into the old tech archive and type jet you will get a wealth of further info.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,6193.0.html
http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/shims.html
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/forum/tech_archive.cgi  type in jet

[98valk]

Thanks Robert for bringing the subject back to my original help questions.  I should have metioned that the reason I suspect the carbs is because two weeks earlier the bike ran fine and over the past year I have noticed a little slower throttle response.  I started the bike with full choke as usual and had no problem.  As soon as I removed the choke the bike would stall out.  Back on full choke, the bike would start, give a little

check your petcock vacuum diaphragm, unless of course u are using a pingle. search for my posts on this matter.

[PeaGoody]

Thanks again Robert.  I am ahead of you on those new suggestions.  I am running a Pingle fuel valve so I don't believe that is the problem.  I replaced all those tiny vac tubes on each carb and yesterday I pulled all the pilot screws and I'm soaking them in parts cleaner now.  There seemed to be some type of build up on the springs of those babies that looked similar to battery corrison and maybe some of that has messed up the works a little.  I have flushed out the pilot screws holes with spray carb cleaner and air.  I hope to have everything back togeter tomorrow and back on the bike for my first test.  By the way I went ahead and installed the Factory Pro kit using the suggested settings from the manufacturer to start at this point.  I rebuilt carbs on a CX500 a year ago and did not fear the outcome half as much as I am on this bike and that build went without a hitch.  Honda carbs from year to year and bike to bike are very similar in mechanics & technology.  They don't change much over the years.  Anyway, I'll keep everyone posted on the progress or ask more questions if this doesn't solve my problem.

[Robert]

 Yup our bikes are not cutting edge tech but thats one reason I like them hope all goes well