Rear splines maintained with Belray - Austone TT mileage - Pictures

[Skinhead]

I own 2 Valkyries, a 2003 standard I bought with 1500 miles (now 58,000) and a 1999 Interstate I bought with 46,800 miles on it (now 87,700).  Today I pulled the rear end apart on the interstate for maintenance, it has been 21,000 mile since the last time when I did the double row bearing mod on it.  I didn't realize it had been that long since I serviced the splines, and I'm not encouraging any one to wait that long between service, but in this case, I don't think it hurt anything to wait that long.  Here is what I found:

The belray appears to do it's job well, the splines were nice and gooey when I opened things up.




The pinion Cup and drive shaft looked good, it was wet, But I think it was because I tilted the final drive as I separating the driveshaft, at least I Know the holes were open.  There was a small amount of red dust on the back of the drive shaft splines, but I think that happens from the rear face of the driveshaft rubbing on the pinion shaft/nut.  I believe the spring on the front of the shaft, preloads the shaft against the pinion shaft and that's where the dust came from.  I didn't get pics of the pinion/drive shaft, but the splines looked good, minimal wear, they were were last lubed with Belray.

I should mention, that when I first got this bike, I tore it down to check the splines and I did find some wear, I took some pics, I'll have to try and find them, but I don't think it has gotten any worse.

This is what things looked like after cleaning, and I'll compare the latest pics to the ones I took at the last service.
87000 miles

66000 miles


87000 miles

66000 miles


I'm a little concerned by some wear patterns I'm seeing on the wheel hub, that I don't see on my standard.  There was a thrust washer in place, and I installed a new one this service, but does anyone else see similar wear?  I've been running Gary's (RIP) dampers on both bikes.  This bikes dampers are just a little loose, so next service I'll either change them or use some urathane epoxy I have to fix them in place.



Finally, This is an Austone Taxi Tire with 19,000 mile on it I measured the tread depth and there is 6/32 left.  I don't know what they have new but I'm happy with the way this one is holding up.  The Yokohama I had before the ATT is shown at 17,000.

Austone 19k


Yokahoma 17k





I noticed another member posted and was asking about service internals, since I happened to be in the thick of it, I thought I'd share my experience, as mentioned previously, I do not advocate going this long between service, but if you have to, I don't think you will be doing much harm.

Ride safe guys!

Skinhead

[Jess from VA]

Good post.  Thanks for sharing.

I lay my Belray in with a spatula too. Yeah, some wipes off putting her back together, and some flies around for a while.  But I don't see how more can be bad.

[fordmano]

Yup, most things more is better. YMMV?

Thanks for sharing your pics for comparison.

[Pete]

Nice pictures, good job.

Thanks

[HayHauler]

Thanks for the cool write-up Joe.  My splines on my Valk (113k) look exactly like yours.  A little wear on the "drive/pull" side, but nothing to be concerned about.  That is how mine looked the first time I took her apart at 30k miles.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[eric in md]

good pics and right up..  ride on lil guy

[whitestroke]

Don't know how you would get that wear pattern with a thrust washer, definitely something to be concerned about.
Maybe P.O. left it off for some miles?

[PAVALKER]

New ATT is 10/32 tread depth.   After reading this post I was curious and just went to measure.  Looks like that is giving you some great wear.  Not sure what type of roads you ride or riding you do, but I would be very pleased to see that with my new ATT.   I will have to remember an annual spline check and maintenance.

Thanks for the great info.

[98pacecar]

Question ,,,,

What is different,, about da valk rear end?  

I have owned n' do own other shaft drive bikes,,

 n' never heard about this spline maint. thing until now.    

Can't be the power, as  1300 kawi 6's are pretty potent, n' never messed with the shaft on them...

Is it built differently,, in some way,,,,,,,,,, errrr,,,,, what?  

[PAVALKER]

Question ,,,,

What is different,, about da valk rear end?  

I have owned n' do own other shaft drive bikes,,

 n' never heard about this spline maint. thing until now.    

Can't be the power, as  1300 kawi 6's are pretty potent, n' never messed with the shaft on them...

Is it built differently,, in some way,,,,,,,,,, errrr,,,,, what?  

With a standard MC Tire, that wears out at 10K (give or take), the rear end usually (or should) gets a good check and lube while the tire/wheel is off.  However, with a CT lasting as we see above.... there may be a need to pull the wheel just to check the lube and wear of the splines.... and lube it again while ya got it off.    Just a precaution to prevent bad stuff from happening due to lack of lube and a periodic check.

[98pacecar]

So yer sayin they are the same, construction wise, as any other shaft drive bike? 

And all shaft drive assy's, need,, ta be torn down,,, every 10K? 

[Jess from VA]

Not really a complete rear end tear down, just the splined mating surfaces once the wheel is off, pinion cup,  three orings, and be sure to reuse the thrust washer.

Lube in these areas (and the rear end 80/90 75/90 wt dope) does not last forever. 

Failure to attend to this at 10-15K intervals has been shown to result in damage often enough to not overlook it.  10K or annually is shown to remove the issue, for most.

[98pacecar]

AND,,,,,,  this would apply to any, shaft drive bike.   

If so,, I guess I've been blissfully ignorant       all these years... (completely possible)   

As well as lucky,,, to have had, no,,,,,,,,, problems.     

[Chrisj CMA]

Good post.  Thanks for sharing.

I lay my Belray in with a spatula too. Yeah, some wipes off putting her back together, and some flies around for a while.  But I don't see how more can be bad.

If you mean you use a spatula to put the grease on the flange (male side) and then some gets pushed off when you install the wheel, well youre just asking for trouble.

In my slide show in Shop Talk I show how you get maximum grease in the splines with almost no sling out. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

AND,,,,,,  this would apply to any, shaft drive bike.   

If so,, I guess I've been blissfully ignorant       all these years... (completely possible)   

As well as lucky,,, to have had, no,,,,,,,,, problems.     

No this doesn't apply to all bikes with shaft drive. I had a Yamaha xs750 that required no rear maintanence except for differential gear lube.

[Jess from VA]

No sir Jeff, I grease both sides, more in the female side.

The spatula comment (which I don't really use) was just an expression for using lots of grease rather than the little bit of dabbing with a brush that I have watched dealer mechanics use.

I thank you for your Shop Talk piece, I need all the help I can get.  

[98pacecar]

AND,,,,,,  this would apply to any, shaft drive bike.  

If so,, I guess I've been blissfully ignorant      all these years... (completely possible)    

As well as lucky,,, to have had, no,,,,,,,,, problems.    

No this doesn't apply to all bikes with shaft drive. I had a Yamaha xs750 that required no rear maintanence except for differential gear lube.

Ok thanks fer answerin da question directly..

I suspected as much, but wasn't totally convinced.  

Ta be honest, in my youth,, I wasn't so much concerned,, with maint,,  

As I was with ridin da piss outta my bikes.  


Any idea why, this drive line is designed this way,, instead of being less,,, maint needy?   ???

[PAVALKER]

It wasn't designed this way to require maintenance at 10k as you might think. It should be serviced as per the service manual and I bet all rear shaft drive bikes have a periodic maintenance schedule.  It has been designed this way to function and work well.  Anything can and does require maintenance, and the splines on the Valk could very well last many many miles or years without additional maintenance or service/lube.  But, given the fact that tires need changed periodically, that is an excellent time to look at the splines for wear and grease.  

Some people may have  experienced problems with their splines as a result of dealerships neglecting to look and lube... and when that happens it becomes an issue that is talked about and brought to the attention of others.   You rarely hear of the guy that went 30k miles without adding a drop of oil to his engine or grease to his  splines...... but let there be an issue with an engine burning up due to a lack of oil change or a rear shaft drive failure because he neglected to lube it... but was quick to use a pressure washer to wash it and water getting in there to cause problems.... and it will be talked about over and over.

Tis better to err on the side of proactive maintenance than a lack thereof.   But if you would like to be "that guy" that doesn't perform the maintenance and see how long it will last..... go for it...     and let us know.

[Skinhead]

It is not so much maintenance needy, as it is not changing a tire every 10-12,000 miles.  DO a search on spline damage and you'll see some horror stories.  Even with out a car tire, some folks neglect the service when changing tires, and after 3 or 4 tires with no spline care, you may be pushing it home.

[Brian]

It is also important to follow the shop manual suggestion of loosing the four nuts on the rear end that attach it to the swingarm. These get tightened last.

[98pacecar]

This thread got me thinkin, dat I need ta get off my ass,,, n' buy a bike jack. 

I've kinda decided on dis,,,, one...    ???

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-professional-1500-lb-motorcycle-atv-jack/p-00950191000P

Any one think they are junk, errr, know of a,,, better choice? 

[Skinhead]

That looks a lot like the one I got at Costco.  It works well.  Aluminum is a plus, the steel jacks are pretty heavy.

[Novavalker]

Good waterproof grease like Belray won't let you down. 

[hubcapsc]

This thread got me thinkin, dat I need ta get off my ass,,, n' buy a bike jack. 

I've kinda decided on dis,,,, one...    ???

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-professional-1500-lb-motorcycle-atv-jack/p-00950191000P

Any one think they are junk, errr, know of a,,, better choice? 

I got the steel craftsman one, and have used it a lot. Now that I have
a basis for comparison, when I see one of the aluminium ones, they seem better.
I'll keep on using my steel one as long as it works, I work on a dirt floor under a
pole barn and my jack looks trashed because of it. I'd hate to do that to
a shiny new $175 aluminium one 

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

I got some no name from Pep Boys on sale for $60 or so years ago.  Not as nice as craftsman, but works every time.  I like all steel for strength.  I never carry mine (are you nuts?).... it has wheels for dragging.

Important for our bikes.... A) it must have a safety bar/catch so you can leave the bike up for extended periods without it sitting only on hydraulics (they probably all do, and if need be you can shove a twobyfour thru the scissors and let it down on that.  And B) it needs to have an easy to use SLOW let-down mode, for obvious reasons.

My old back hates me working bent over and on my knees; the jack is a blessing, even just for washing the bike, and esp the dreaded wheel cleaning.  It is easier changing oil on the ground thou. 

[lacon]

Confirmation to PAvalker's statement of 10/32" tread depth for a new Austone Taxi tire.  Got one waiting in the garage for mounting before warm weather. 
What is your recommendation for pressure?

[98pacecar]

Ok,,,, ordered in da sears lift... (8-10 days)

Fer my final ? on dis subject...   

Is the homemade (wood) adapter , as stable/functional,,,, as the one you can buy offa ebay?     

I really, don't,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wanna drop it...     

[Skinhead]

Confirmation to PAvalker's statement of 10/32" tread depth for a new Austone Taxi tire.  Got one waiting in the garage for mounting before warm weather. 
What is your recommendation for pressure?

I run 40-41 psi front and rear

[The emperor has no clothes]

98, I've been using a wood adapter for 3 years, no issues at all.

[Skinhead]

Ok,,,, ordered in da sears lift... (8-10 days)

Fer my final ? on dis subject...    

Is the homemade (wood) adapter , as stable/functional,,,, as the one you can buy offa ebay?    

I really, don't,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wanna drop it...      

I use the wooden adaptor to lift the bike and then set it on 2 jack stands under the engine guards and 2 under the saddle bag guards.  Then remove the jack and it is rock solid.  (I put some piece of garden hose over the chrome to prevent scratches)

[98pacecar]

Ok,,,, ordered in da sears lift... (8-10 days)

Fer my final ? on dis subject...    

Is the homemade (wood) adapter , as stable/functional,,,, as the one you can buy offa ebay?    

I really, don't,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wanna drop it...      

I use the wooden adaptor to lift the bike and then set it on 2 jack stands undet the engine guards and 2 under the saddle bag guards.  Then remove the jack and it is rock solid.  (I put some piece of garden hose over the chrome to prevent scratches)

Don't have any of those..

Is there an alternate location,,, fer da supports?    ???

[old2soon]

When mine goes on the jack I generally remove the seat. That way when I strap the M/C to the jack I'm strapped over the frame and not the seat. My side covers get removed also as where the strap comes over the M/C frame and goes to the jack frame it rubs on the side cover. I snake the front strap thru the engine crash bars back to the jack frame. And remember to leave the weight on the lock and not the hydraulic jack itself. You build the wooden adapter correctly it wurx great.  I own a H/F yellow jack and have not had any problems with it. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Ok,,,, ordered in da sears lift... (8-10 days)

Fer my final ? on dis subject...    

Is the homemade (wood) adapter , as stable/functional,,,, as the one you can buy offa ebay?    

I really, don't,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wanna drop it...      

I have the home made wooden one that is last in this list*. (using dimensions earlier in the list;  One inch pine bottom and pressure treat uprights (since they take the most stress), the one inch base is easier to slide under the motor and over the jack arms (than twobyfours) (and I have to shim the kickstand with a twobysix to have enough room to slide my 1" adapter in between them).  The base takes little stress since sandwiched between the motor and jack arms)

http://www.herberts.org/wayne/valk/lowtechlift.htm

I have used it 50+ plus times since '05 with two interstates.  Never a single issue.  It has been soaked with water many times and left out to dry.  Of course, all home made adapters need positioned properly/straight with the jack on level ground. With everything set up properly, the bike goes a ton and holds itself on very well with it's own weight.

My bikes are rarely ever tied down for routine work and cleaning (and this may be a mistake), except if harder wrenching is done or removing the rear wheel/end, I add one or two jackstands under the front engine guards, and let the jack down slightly to snug them rock solid (and set the safety bar to take the weight off the hydraulics, every time).  One bike has been up on it for a week at a time.  Usually it's hours to a day, or two.

My cheap jack has non swivel wheels and is not really push-around friendly (mostly a good thing), but I can carefully move the bike (a little) on the woody support with nothing tied down (on smooth concrete).  Much better to just pick your initial setup spot with care, and leave it.

The bike will rock a bit with work, but never got remotely close to falling off.

It seems clear the two metal type adapters must be more stable yet, but I have never needed any more support than I already have.

To me the greatest risk is slipping on a screwdriver and falling squarely into the bike with your full weight, so I am really careful to place tool, parts and stuff under, on or away from the bike.  And two 2.5 X 6 foot pieces of scrap berber carpet down each side of the bike helps pad the old bones greatly (not to wash).

*

[Ricky-D]

Although both lifting adapters (wood/metal) will do the job in lifting the bike, there are some advantages with the metal adapter that are not available with a hand made wood lifting adapter.

The first advantage with the metal lifting adapter is that you can attach it to the underside of the bike while it sits on the side stand.

Another advantage is that with my metal lifting adapter, it is made so that it locates in a positive position with the underside of the bike.

Being made of steel, everything is welded together and in my opinion the welded construction is much more sturdy than wood assembly.

Lastly, without the advantage of seeing a welded steel adapter attached to the underside of the bike, it will be very difficult to picture how the adapter really works. This is especially important when the time would come to building a wooden adapter and being 100% confident in what you build.

I think the very affordable price of the steel adapters outweighs the savings gained by building a wooden adapter, along with the peace of mind when you see the Valkyrie sitting up in the air on the jack.

Jus sayin'

***

[hubcapsc]

I like the red metal one with the L bolts that hold it to the
bottom of the motor.

I use the permanently attached metal one, though.

The permanently attached one requires care to keep from
putting weight on the headers, but some of us can't
be trusted not to drive off with the other one still
attached 

-Mike

[Skinhead]

Ok,,,, ordered in da sears lift... (8-10 days)

Fer my final ? on dis subject...    

Is the homemade (wood) adapter , as stable/functional,,,, as the one you can buy offa ebay?    

I really, don't,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wanna drop it...      

I use the wooden adaptor to lift the bike and then set it on 2 jack stands undet the engine guards and 2 under the saddle bag guards.  Then remove the jack and it is rock solid.  (I put some piece of garden hose over the chrome to prevent scratches)

Don't have any of those..

Is there an alternate location,,, fer da supports?    ???

Before I added hard bags to my standard, I would put stands under the engine guards and a block of wood under the rear tire and remove the jack.  If you have a regular floor jack, you can put that under the rear tire, remove the MC jack and then  put a 2x4 or 4x4 on the cross member and a Jack stand or blocks of wood to support the bike on the cross member, then remove the jack beneath the rear tire.  Sounds complicated, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.  (No Offense -Mike)

[98pacecar]

Decisions,,, decisions,,,,,,,,,,   

As I see it, da black metal one stays, on the bike,,, all the time? 

Don't think I like dat..   

The red one (is 20 bucks more but,) comes off,,,,,,,, after use,,,, correct? 

Wood is way more,,,,,,,,,,, cost effective, 

Damn, already got 190 bucks, in da jack....   hmmmmmmm..   

But,, what da ole lady don't know,,, won't hurt her,, (errrr, me)   I,,, guess....   

[Jess from VA]

I suck at carpentry.  My woody was built easily from scrap, with more time measuring than assembling.

Build one and try it.  You are not risking your life or the bike.

If you think it's not adequate, buy a metal one (and you'll have a $2.50 spare).   

[98pacecar]

Ya, I guess dat, is,,,,,,,,,, solid thinkin... 

 Home depot is,,,,,,,,, only 15 miles away... 

N' bein retired it AIN'T,,, like my dance card, is zactly,,,,,,,,,,,,,, full...   

[pancho]

"I'm a little concerned by some wear patterns I'm seeing on the wheel hub, that I don't see on my standard.  There was a thrust washer in place, and I installed a new one this service, but does anyone else see similar wear?  I've been running Gary's (RIP) dampers on both bikes.  This bikes dampers are just a little loose, so next service I'll either change them or use some urathane epoxy I have to fix them in place."


Well, my first thought is that with the dampers being a little loose, and the wear on the splines, the flange can wobble a bit as it is not in the torque line of the axle,, it basically is floating and relies on the dampers and splines for stability.

Are Garys dampers made from urathane as opposed to a hard rubber type compound?, it does seem that they should be TIGHT.