Does the Valk naturally drift to the right while riding?--SOLVED

[sclark]

I've owned the bike since December and have noticed that the bike tends to drift to the right while riding hands free at any speed from 25-80 mph regardless of which side of the road crown I am riding.  Bike has 3,500 miles on it.  Changed the original tires due to age and no change.  The front axle is flush with the left fork and no unusual brake disc drag, etc.  The rear axle was torqued prior to torquing the 4 rear drive shaft nuts.  The weight in the saddle bags is evenly distributed.  Is this just a natural tendency for the Valk, or a problem that needs to be addressed? Thanks, Steve

[sclark]

Sorry folks, rookie mistake--I should have searched first.  From what I found from a search of previous posts, some do, some don't and the typical things to look for are bent forks or one fork longer than the other, etc.  Again, I apologize for bringing up a subject that was previously addressed.  Steve

[Chrisj CMA]

no apology needed.........this is not a frequently discussed topic.  With that few miles Its hard to suspect any failure of a part or system unless the bike is older than the miles would indicate....in that case the prime suspect would be age deteriorated rear shock upper bushings. 

Remove the seat and see if the bolts holding the tops of the shocks are in the center of the shock mounting eye, if not, Id guess thats the problem.

[sandy]

They drift to the left South of the equator.

[sclark]

Thanks Chris CMA,
I checked the rear shock bushings and they appear centered and both shocks are set on setting #2.  Bike's miles seem consistent with the previous owner's story and the tires I replaced were the original (tire stamp was 2003) with plenty of tread.  Additionally, I see no indication of damage from an accident.  Will do some fork length measuring next opportunity. Steve

[Jess from VA]

Road crown will drift you right.  I really doubt if you ride on the wrong (left) side of the road, the bike will still drift uphill (to the right), up and over the crown.  If it does that, you likely have a tire wear issue, or shock bushings, forks, or something issue.  And if it was pulling that bad, if the tires aren't causing it, they should be beginning to wear poorly because of it.  On the other hand, some wider roads like 5-lanes may have very little crown.

I always think getting the bike up straight and level as possible on a jack in neutral and spinning tires and looking around may tell you something.  You can even (carefully) let it idle in 1st gear to spin and observe the rear.  Are the pads wearing evenly? Any rotor warped? Do the forks tend to flop one way and not the other?

[sclark]

Thanks Jess,

The tires are new (<50 miles).  The previous tires showed the common left side wear on the front tire, but nothing excessive.  And yes, the bike will naturally drift across the crown from the left side of the road to the right within 1-2 seconds of "hands free".  Shock bushings are centered and look serviceable. Additionally, I notice that my left arm is extended more than might right while riding a straight away.  When I lift the bike and spin the front and rear tires, there is no abnormal brake disc interference and the discs are within runout specs and the pads appear to be wearing normal.

[pancho]

There is a problem there if the bike will drift over the crown from the left side. I would be checking out the fork tube alignment.

Also,, there should not be any noticeable " common left side wear on the front tire".  check the fork tubes,, alignment first, then possibly bent from banging into something.

[Valker]

Have you checked anything REALLY simple? Mine did that and I just shifted my seating position, and it went away.

[Jess from VA]

Another question.  Did this only start after your new tires?

Even new tires can be defective.  (do the directional arrows point ahead?)

And yes, many do get a bit more left side wear from crowns, over the life of a tire, mainly on the front.

Something is rotten in Denmark if it will pull up and over a crown.

I always suspect tires first.

[sclark]

The right drift tendency existed with the old tires and remains with the new tires as well. I adjusted my seat position considerably more to the left and it helped, but did not alleviate the problem.

I measured the amount each fork tube protrudes above the upper triple tree.  The left fork protrudes 1mm more than the right fork tube.  I also checked for signs of fork oil seepage and found none.

[Michvalk]

Mine did that until I moved my air compressor and tools to the left saddlebag

[donaldcc]

. . .

And yes, many do get a bit more left side wear from crowns, over the life of a tire, mainly on the front.
. . .

  Rattlebars disagrees with this one Jess.

http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html

[Jess from VA]

. . .

And yes, many do get a bit more left side wear from crowns, over the life of a tire, mainly on the front.
. . .

  Rattlebars disagrees with this one Jess.

http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html

Yes everyone has opinions.  Left front wear is very common in right hand driving countries so it no doubt happens for a number of reasons...... and I think the crown is one of them.

However, I have only rarely had such wear on my fronts. (but my tires are near max psi all the time)

[.]

Mine also drifts to the right when I let go of the handlebars but I've suspected its the road crown. Otherwise it handles like a dream so I don't worry too much about it. Everything checks out normal so I just keep riding but I make sure I don't let go of the handlebars. 

[pancho]

I'm still thinking triple tree and fork tube alignment for the pulling problems,, loosen all the pinch bolts and top triple tree nut and follow the steps in the manual 13-34 for order of tightening and alignment,, if this did not fix it, I would pull the tubes to check for straightness. If that was not it, I would be looking at the alignment of the rear wheel to the front.

You should certainly be able to drive with hands off and just leaning to go down the road. If not, there is a problem.  Sounds a bit dangerous to me,, like something is not in proper alignment.

[Pete]

The right drift tendency existed with the old tires and remains with the new tires as well. I adjusted my seat position considerably more to the left and it helped, but did not alleviate the problem.

If seating position cannot over come the right drift then I would suspect something seriously wrong. So seriously wrong that it should be apparent on close inspection. Start with the basics, wheel alignment, tire mounting, steering head alignment, etc until you find and correct the problem.

[matt]

my bike would also go right what I found was one caliper holding alittle more than the other, Had to remove one at a time and could feel drag on tire, when both were on I thought it was natural, but I removed one put a piece of wood in between pads applied brake and then did other side caliper and there was adifferance in drag. I cleaned up caliper seemed much better but still had slight drift. I then removed front wheel(after going over everything I could think of) and fork length was different had to take off cap and adjust length

[Cracker Jack]

Matt says,

"my bike would also go right what I found was one caliper holding a little more than the other"

I had a bike one time that only had a brake disc on the right side and every time I would put on the front brakes it would pull me off the road and into the ditch. I'm just happy that the disc was not on the left side. Could have been bad.

[sclark]

Matt,
Could you elaborate on "removing the fork cap to adjust the length".  I assumed the only adjustment for fork length is by loosening the pinch bolts and adjusting how far the fork tube protrudes above the upper triple tree.
Thanks.

[uturn]

check those bolts under the chrome plastic covers on the rear swingarm...on my '98 standard i just put on the road the left side was loose, it allowed the whole swingarm to move back and forth a good 1/8 inch when the bike was on jacks. i tightened up the nut, tightened the locknut crown thing, and so far so good.

[sclark]

UTURN,
I just checked the swing arm attachment points and they are secure. 

[Chiefy]

Mine did that until I moved my air compressor and tools to the left saddlebag

I was just gonna say mine drifts if the bags aren't close to balanced.  When they are, she runs square and straight and true.  Even on a crown.

[Ricky-D]

Mechanical reasons for what you describe as "drift" are very few indeed.

If the front axle is properly seated and tight, remove any shock related things as causing your problem.

Insure the triple trees are holding the shock absorbers correctly and properly tight as opposed to being loose.

There is no relationship to any brake being able to cause the problem. Just doesn't happen.

If your bike has been in a front ender - look for indexed steering head bearings as being the cause.

If your bike has been in a front ender - look for a bent frame as being the cause.

You said the swing arm is fine, so no way that can cause your problem.

No shock bushings, shock absorbers, can cause your problem.

No tires, bearings, nor true wheels can cause your problem.

***

[Michvalk]

If your reach to the handle bars is different from left to right, your bars are bent, or the front forks are out of alignment and the triple tree is not square. That might be the problem

[sclark]

Thanks all,
I will try to upload some pictures either later tonight or tomorrow.  Basically, with jacks holding the front tire off the ground and the bike upright, I placed a bubble level on the rear brake disk to insure the bike was level vertically.  I then wrapped fishing line around the rear wheel and using the rear sidewalls as an aiming guide, I ran the fishing line forward of the front tire to use as a guide to align the front tire with the back.  I then placed the bubble level on the front brake disks and they were level in comparison to the rear wheel.  I placed the bubble level horizontally on the lower triple tree and it was very close to level, same goes for the upper triple tree.  I measured the overall length of each front fork and they were within 1/16th inch.    I then stood behind the rear backrest and visually, the left handlebar is more forward than the right.  The problem could be slightly bent handlebars as well as it appears that the OEM riser holes are slightly off as well.  I then removed the Memphis Shades windshield and emptied both saddlebags and went for a ride.  It appeared that the drift was not as bad with the windshield removed and bags empty, but the right drift tendency remains.  Finally, I relooked at the rear shock bushings with the bike fully laden, and the bolts are not centered in the bushing, but rather the bolt resides in the lower half of center (more so on the right shock).
So in an attempt to take this all in, with the bike upright and front aligned with the rear, the left handlebar is more forward (guess about 1/2 to 1 inch) than the right.  But if, let's say that was not due to handle bar bend, it would seem to translate to left drift given counter steer (push left turn left).   I also checked the steering head using the pull check and it was withing the ~1-2 lbs pull tension.  So, I am still scratching my head.  There are no signs of accident damage, so maybe it's just the way it is......  Thanks again for everyone's advice.

[dr.danh]

rear shocks set settings same on ea. side.

[sclark]

Yes, they are set on 2.

[uturn]

above my pay grade, but keep us posted on your progress so i learn too...

[Bugslayer]

Mine has always drifted to the right. Whether on a two lane farm road, or a flat interstate.

[pancho]

Try loosening the pinch bolts on the fork tubes, and the top nut on the upper tree and align the front end...... When the wheel is straight, the bars should be also.  This is not something I would overlook.

[8Track]

If the rear shocks were ever disassembled they may have been re-assembled with the tops and bottoms rotated incorrectly. If that's the case, the numbers on the shocks may not be indicating the true pre-load setting - one could be different to the other. To check, adjust them with the C spanner but count the settings up from the bottom or down from the top, rather than relying on the label indicator.

[sclark]

8 Track,
I verified the shock setting via the steps and they are correct with the labels.

Pancho,
I don't quite understand the procedure you mention.  Given that the upper fork tube rotates independent of the lower fork slider, and that the axle "pins" the lower fork sliders together, I don't think you can simply rotate the fork tubes in the triple trees to adjust alignment.  As for loosening the steering stem nut, I am not aware that you can loosen it and adjust the front alignment like that of a bicycle.  Nothing in the service manual eludes to such, but if you have done this before, please elaborate.

Thanks.

[indybobm]

I then stood behind the rear backrest and visually, the left handlebar is more forward than the right.  The problem could be slightly bent handlebars as well as it appears that the OEM riser holes are slightly off as well.

So in an attempt to take this all in, with the bike upright and front aligned with the rear, the left handlebar is more forward (guess about 1/2 to 1 inch) than the right.

I am intrigued about the left handlebar being farther forward than the right. Also, you stated that the OEM riser holes seem to have a slight twist. I would check to make sure that the upper triple tree and the lower triple tree are perfectly aligned.
If the top triple tree is twisted just slightly clockwise in relation to the lower triple tree, it can cause the left handlebar to be farther forward than the right.  The ends of the handlebars are over 12 inches from the steering stem and even a slight misalignment of the triple trees will be amplified by that distance.

[Ken Tarver]

"Finally, I relooked at the the rear shock bushings with the bike fully laden, and the bolts are not centered in the bushing, but rather the bolt resides in the lower half of center (more so on the right shock)."

i think you hit upon the problem right there, but you didn't indicate fixing it. even if not the specific answer to your drift, they still need to be replaced.
I have a friends valk here in my shop, will be replacing the bushings this week in a continuing saga of catching up on some over due maintenance. He was injured in a wreck over 2 years ago and hasn't been able to ride or work on the bike. Hoping he is getting close to being able to ride again.

[Tx Bohemian]

Ok, maybe it's too early in the morning for me today but can someone explain what "rear shock" bushing alignment has to do with a bike drifting? And how does that work?

Also how would a front disc brake drag make a bike drift?

[sclark]

I agree with Indybobm that small differences make a difference in reference to the handlebars and risers.  I measured the distance from the forward edge of the upper triple tree to each riser and found 2 mm difference between the left and right with the left having the smaller dimension (more forward).   The distance between the risers is 100mm, so in effect it appears there is 2 mm rise for every 100mm run.  The distance of the handlebars from end to end is 32 inches or 810mm .  By applying the rise/run relationship, it equates to 0.6 inches of difference between the left and right handlebar.  So this seems to account for why the left handlebar is more forward than the right, but has no correlation to the actual drift tendency.

As for checking to determine if the upper and lower triple trees are "square", that is quite challenging but could be done with some precise laser measuring devices or some measurements from a known distance.  I will have to toy with that idea a little more but given the close distance between the upper and lower trees and the size of each fork tube that slides through each, it would take incredible force to mis-align these and not readily see the effect when attempting to slide the axle between the two forks (similar to the small variation at the handlebar risers showing large deviations when projected, if the upper and lower trees were out of alignment it should show up as a considerable devioation some 30 plus inches downstream the forks.  

As for concerns that one fork is bent in relation to the other, this should be readily apparent at the axle.  When I changed the front tire, the axle showed no damage and it was within spec IAW the service manual and it easily slid from one fork to the other with no interference.

Other than the shock bushings being slightly out of round and the slight factory mis-drill of the riser holes on the upper triple tree, I have found nothing out of alignment or mechanically wrong despite multiple measurements.  I agree that deterioration of the shock bushings could cause some sag and will change out the shock bushings, but am somewhat doubtful that it will make a noticeable difference in drift.  

Not to knock Honda, as I love this machine, but their welds are not the best I have seen and can't help but acknowledge that these machines are built within tolerances and that tolerances can stack up across the frame and lead to less than a perfect outcome as they are not stamping out parts but rather fabricating.

At the end of the day, the drift is not untenable and unnoticeable with the right hand on the handlebar--I rarely ride hands free other than to make a quick adjustment of sorts.  

Thanks again for the many replies and helpful ideas.  Steve

[Ricky-D]

 

I also checked the steering head using the pull check and it was withing the ~1-2 lbs pull tension.

I don't know what this test is going to reveal but in my estimation it will reveal nothing! Especially so if you are

looking for evidence of indexed steering head bearings.  It is not easy to identify indexed bearings and a very deft touch

is absolutely needed to do so.  That so called "fall off" test is bogus and a bad measure for steering head bearing tightness.

You cannot have the front wheel and bike off the ground either. Indexing will not reveal itself under "in the air" condition

since under those conditions all the forces are transferred to the opposite side of the bearing races which are "untouched"

when under normal riding conditions.

If the bike has not been in a front end collision (head on) the chances the steering head bearings are indexed is slight to non-existent.

***

[sclark]

Valid points Ricky-D.  The fall away test is prescribed by the Clymer's manual for troubleshooting drift, so I performed it as it was relatively easy to do.  I agree that further inspection of bearing indexing is necessary to completely rule out, but I will wait till follow on scheduled maintenance, as the bike only has 3,500 miles on it, shows no other indications of being in an accident and I know the previous owner. 

[jimmytee]

Just a note, when I had removed everything from the triple tree, including the top plate, I felt a slight uneven drag when rotating the lower tree from left to right. This was just before removing the two nuts and lock washer from the top of the stem. Pulling the bearings,everything seems to be intact, but the I wondered about that drag I felt before dis-assembly. I've got a new All Balls replacement kit on order.