Opinions needed: Bias ply vs. Radial in front.

[John Schmidt]

I've been looking at various tire vendors and the radial version is substantially more expensive than the bias ply version. So, out of curiosity I looked at my current front Metz and realized it's a bias ply with approx. 13k on it and still has good tread. But, it's eight years old....the only reason I want to replace it before June. It seems to me if I can get that mileage or more from a front bias ply tire, why spend the extra for a radial. I'm running a c/t in back and the two have worked quite well together. So, what say you, is my thinking twisted a bit or does it make sense? I've seen others on here install bias tires in front so I think I'll continue with it as well.

[old2soon]

Had a bias ply up front with a radial D/S. Around 13000+ with that setup.  RIDE SAFE.

[sandy]

I only use Cobra radials. Radials is what Honda used from the factory. I also never mix radials with bias. It works for some but I'm fussy about handling.

[PhredValk]

I run a dunlop D404 130/90-17 bias rear up front ($123.95) that lasted over 20K miles. Falken CT on the rear, both at 40-42PSI. The combo is quiet, smooth and great in the rain.

This is her at 17K.
Fred.

[Michvalk]

I'm no tire expert by any stretch, but, I have always thought my radials rode a lot smoother than the bias. I have bought bias to save a few bucks, but, ended up going back to radial for the ride. I often get 15,000 out of a front radial or bias, so not a driving factor. Oh, Car tire on the back

[John Schmidt]

I run a dunlop D404 130/90-17 bias rear up front ($123.95) that lasted over 20K miles. Falken CT on the rear, both at 40-42PSI. The combo is quiet, smooth and great in the rain.

This is her at 17K.
Fred.

Are you running that tire reversed or in the normal direction?

[Hoser]

I am presently using a bias Dunlop on front and a radial Avon on the rear, no particular reason other than I had them.  Truthfully, I cannot tell the difference.  I will say the bias rides better, cause they usually are rated for lower pressure than the radial.  Hoser   

[Jess from VA]

I have been running the bias Avon Roadrider 130 rear on front, reversed, for about 6K.  It was slippery in wet riding to nearly 200 miles of scuff-in from new.  It is OK, most of the time you will not even notice a difference, but it does not have the stability of a 150 radial in hard twisty riding.  I think it will get more miles than my usual Metz front radial (8-9K), but not enough to make the compromise worth it to me.  If I try another bias rear on front it will be that Dunny 404 that Hoser and Phred are using.  It's a 130 150, but looks meatier than the Avon, and appears to go longer than the Avon.  

What I have not found is any particular issue running a radial car tire on the back and a bias rear bike tire on the front.  The bike rides as smoothly as ever on these tires with good suspension.  My complaint on the Avon bias is it is just not a heavy enough carcass to hold the road as well as a 150 on a big heavy motorcycle dragging parts thru diving corners.  

I have no idea if the 150 Metz 880 bias will get as many miles as the 880 radial.  Pretty sure the max PSI on bias is lower than radials.  I love all Metz tires, I just don't love the expense and short life of the OE size radials.

I would run any bias rear on the front reversed, esp with the rain you get in FL.

Finally, I am just remembering there is a somewhat new Michelin radial bike tire that is making many cruiser/tourer riders very happy.  Like other 130 bias tires we are using, it does not come in the correct size for a Valk front, but a bit shorter of a tire.  But it is looking very promising for superior handling and longevity.    

I believe it is the Michelin Commander II in 140/75R-17 steel   (or 140/80B-17 bias)
How much shorter is a 75 than an 80?

[PhredValk]

The D404 rear (my second as I love this tire) is run in normal forward direction. The first with Dynabeads for balance, current tire using Ride-on. Some say the lamination can let go unless reversed because of braking pressure, but I'm not that aggressive a rider and am more concerned about shedding water in the rain than lamination issues that no-one has yet reported.
Also, Michelin has stated that bias up front and radial in back is OK, but not the other way around.
Fred.

[csj]

Michelin has stated that bias up front and radial in back is OK, but not the other way around.

Could you please provide a link to this Michelin info.


I'm also using bias; Shinko front. Using Falken radial ct rear. Great results and handling.

[WDAN]

When I purchased my Valk, it had 5200 miles on odometer with the original Dunlops. Tread OK but tires were 10 years old.
I replaced them with wide whitewalls. I had to get what was available which were Dunlops .
D404 front and D407 rear; both bias.
I now have 10,000 miles on these tires and could not be more pleased with ride and wear. I usually run 38 lbs in front and 42 lbs in rear.

Here is a link you may find of interest.

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6102

[Hoser]

I have been running the bias Avon Roadrider 130 rear on front, reversed, for about 6K.  It was slippery in wet riding to nearly 200 miles of scuff-in from new.  It is OK, most of the time you will not even notice a difference, but it does not have the stability of a 150 radial in hard twisty riding.  I think it will get more miles than my usual Metz front radial (8-9K), but not enough to make the compromise worth it to me.  If I try another bias rear on front it will be that Dunny 404 that Hoser and Phred are using.  It's also a 130, but looks meatier than the Avon, and appears to go longer than the Avon. 

What I have not found is any particular issue running a radial car tire on the back and a bias rear bike tire on the front.  The bike rides as smoothly as ever on these tires with good suspension.  My complaint on the Avon bias is it is just not a heavy enough carcass to hold the road as well as a 150 on a big heavy motorcycle dragging parts thru diving corners. 

I have no idea if the 150 Metz 880 bias will get as many miles as the 880 radial.  Pretty sure the max PSI on bias is lower than radials.  I love all Metz tires, I just don't love the expense and short life of the OE size radials.

I would run any bias rear on the front reversed, esp with the rain you get in FL.

Finally, I am just remembering there is a somewhat new Michelin radial bike tire that is making many cruiser/tourer riders very happy.  Like other 130 bias tires we are using, it does not come in the correct size for a Valk front, but a bit shorter of a tire.  But it is looking very promising for superior handling and longevity.   

I believe it is the Michelin Commander II in 140/75R-17 steel   (or 140/80B-17 bias)
How much shorter is a 75 than an 80?

Actually, Jess, the D404F I have on the front is the oem size 150/80B/17. It is the one I put on in Ohio. Still looks good, no cupping and looks hardly worn.  Expect 15-20 thousand miles wear.  The one I replaced in Ohio had about 19 thousand on it. And yes, it is a fatty.  Hope to see you in Arkansas in June.  Hoser     

[John Schmidt]

I believe it is the Michelin Commander II in 140/75R-17 steel   (or 140/80B-17 bias)
How much shorter is a 75 than an 80?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

About 6mm.

[Jess from VA]

Actually, Jess, the D404F I have on the front is the oem size 150/80B/17. Hope to see you in Arkansas in June.  Hoser

Thanks for setting me straight on this.  Do you run it regular or reversed?  What pressure do you run?

What is happening in Arkansas in June? 

[Jess from VA]

I believe it is the Michelin Commander II in 140/75R-17 steel   (or 140/80B-17 bias)
How much shorter is a 75 than an 80?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

About 6mm.

So, 6mm = 15/64"  = .24".  So do you think a quarter inch short presents any problems/issues?

I think a 55 car tire is about the same amount shorter than a 60, but I only run 60s. 

Interestingly, the bias Commander II front is exactly the right height, only a 140 vs 150.  But I think the whole idea of running a bias front, is to use a rear bias with all the extra tread.  Except these Michelins are supposed to be going longer than others.... but how much longer I don't know.

[Hoser]

Actually, Jess, the D404F I have on the front is the oem size 150/80B/17. Hope to see you in Arkansas in June.  Hoser

Thanks for setting me straight on this.  Do you run it regular or reversed?  What pressure do you run?

What is happening in Arkansas in June?  

It is a true front tire,I run it with the rotation arrows facing the right way. As for Arkansas.  The voai reunion is there.It is the week after IZ.  Check their board for details.  Here is the last one when new, along with the rear I was using then. click the pic to make it bigger. Hoser

[sawdustar]

Good thread.....because I'm researching tires for my Valk.....Rear is ok for now...but the front is going to need replacing soon. Just trying to figure out the diff for bias vs radial thang.... 

[Bone]

Here is my combination for bout 80k,  more than one set 
The front is a Dunlop 404 F which is a Bias and GYTT for the rear.
Front tire mileage has been 14k-18k. I change them early if
planning a trip.

[Fla. Jim]

 Re: Feedback on the Dunlop D404 , or K491 rear on frt W/ CT rear?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 12:44:05 PM »

I have run a couple of K491's. They both gave me 30k plus miles. The first one cupped badly due to my negligence in maintaining the air correctly. the second just wore out. They performed very good and always were steady and had great grip. They removed my fear of dirt roads. I had read sometime back here that someone was useing a Michelin Pilot activ Rear (Michelin Pilot Activ Rear Tire - 130/70-17) as their front tire. I researched it a bit and found trike owners loved it and recieved 25-30k miles with them. Also some Gold Wingers and VTX 1800 guys were running them. I had one installed a couple of days ago and from the first 100 ft knew this was a different animal fron the k491. The stearing is very lite and there is no breaking in period as with the k491's agressive tread. I only have 60 miles on it so far but every one brought a smile to my face. Great ride and sticks great. If it gets half the milage of my k491's I'll be buying another! For reference every regular front has never given me over 10k. The original 206's were completly wore out at 8k front and rear. I do have this paired with a Michelin Hydroedge car tire with 30k on the tread. Look forward to wearing both out  
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,62778.0.html





Done about a thousand miles now and first impressions are still true.

[santa]

I talked to the Michelin rep at bike week in Daytona. He said guys are getting double mileage on the new Michelin tire over anything they are using now.

Santa

[Jess from VA]

I talked to the Michelin rep at bike week in Daytona. He said guys are getting double mileage on the new Michelin tire over anything they are using now.

Santa

Yeah, Santa, that's the Commander II.  I really want to try it.

But do I get a 1/4" shorter radial 75 140, or a full height 80 140 Bias? 

[sawdustar]

I went ahead and ordered a D404F, 2 ounces of Dynabeads, and new 90º valve stems. I'll put the new front on in a couple of weeks or so and then I'll figure out what I want to do for my rear tire (yes, it's going to be a CT).

[big poppa pump]

Running a MC-II 140/75 radial in the front and I had written a short review about it some time back when I had initially mounted it. I have now put a little under 7k miles on it and tire looks practically brand new. I am hoping to get at least 15k miles, if not more out of it.

[Jess from VA]

Running a MC-II 140/75 radial in the front and I had written a short review about it some time back when I had initially mounted it. I have now put a little under 7k miles on it and tire looks practically brand new. I am hoping to get at least 15k miles, if not more out of it.

So Papa, is the quarter inch (short) noticeable in any way?  Particularly in lean angle?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Re: Feedback on the Dunlop D404 , or K491 rear on frt W/ CT rear?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 12:44:05 PM »

I have run a couple of K491's. They both gave me 30k plus miles. The first one cupped badly due to my negligence in maintaining the air correctly. the second just wore out. They performed very good and always were steady and had great grip. They removed my fear of dirt roads. I had read sometime back here that someone was useing a Michelin Pilot activ Rear (Michelin Pilot Activ Rear Tire - 130/70-17) as their front tire. I researched it a bit and found trike owners loved it and recieved 25-30k miles with them. Also some Gold Wingers and VTX 1800 guys were running them. I had one installed a couple of days ago and from the first 100 ft knew this was a different animal fron the k491. The stearing is very lite and there is no breaking in period as with the k491's agressive tread. I only have 60 miles on it so far but every one brought a smile to my face. Great ride and sticks great. If it gets half the milage of my k491's I'll be buying another! For reference every regular front has never given me over 10k. The original 206's were completly wore out at 8k front and rear. I do have this paired with a Michelin Hydroedge car tire with 30k on the tread. Look forward to wearing both out  
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,62778.0.html





Done about a thousand miles now and first impressions are still true.

Good to hear. I've been planning that as my next front. Glad to hear it's working for you

[big poppa pump]

Running a MC-II 140/75 radial in the front and I had written a short review about it some time back when I had initially mounted it. I have now put a little under 7k miles on it and tire looks practically brand new. I am hoping to get at least 15k miles, if not more out of it.

So Papa, is the quarter inch (short) noticeable in any way?  Particularly in lean angle?

Nope. There is no noticeable difference in the way the bike handles or rides. In fact, the I love the way the bikes handles when I do the twisties (And I love to lean). The only irksome downside is it throws the speedo off by another couple of miles. Not a big deal as I am still under the speed limit if I feel like speeding.

[Jess from VA]

Thanks.  I am going to try it.   

[big poppa pump]

Thanks.  I am going to try it.   

Good luck! You will definitely like it. Took me about 200 miles to break in the tire.

[Jess from VA]

Thanks.  I am going to try it.   

Good luck! You will definitely like it. Took me about 200 miles to break in the tire.

So did the Avon Roadrider, and almost all of that 200 was in the rain.  Home from the shop (rain), then a BRP run to NC for a Meet-in-the-Middle ride (almost all rain).  This is not how I like to break in a tire.