Camshaft pulley trouble

[cogsman]

And the drama continues...

I'm swapping out my left cylinder head. 2 years ago, I had a blown cylinder head gasket. The f-heads at Barrie Honda did a shoddy job, causing the bike to blow that bank of cylinders. Got it fixed through a now-out-of business repair shop downtown, and in fixing the problem, they did this:



Welded the pulley in lieu of a bolt. Now... I'm reaching the limits of my ability here, so I need some guidance. Could this moron really be so short-sighted that he figured no one would ever need to replace this cylinder head? Or is there an alternate way of getting this thing removed?

I have another cylinder head, and another camshaft pully (assuming the pulleys are not specifically lefts and rights)... I just need to get this one off!

Do I grab an angle grinder and just chop it off to get to the bolts behind it? If I did that could i slide the pully with camshaft attached straight out? I really don't want to put a torch to this thing because I am not a "torch guy" or "welding guy".

[Chrisj CMA]

If the new head has a good cam shaft and you have a new pulley (even if you have to buy  pulley). Start chopping, it's your only option.  Just go slow you don't want to grind on anything not being replaced

[cogsman]

Chris can you recommend the type of wheel to use for grinding? Any specific material I should be looking for?

[Patrick]

I wouldn't worry about grinding/cutting it away either.

Do the camshafts match ? Casting #s.

[Chrisj CMA]

Chris can you recommend the type of wheel to use for grinding? Any specific material I should be looking for?

Any steel cut off wheel should work,  just be careful to tarp the surrounding areas especially the open timing belt area so grinding residue doesn't cake in every crack and crevice.

[cogsman]

I wouldn't worry about grinding/cutting it away either.

Do the camshafts match ? Casting #s.

I don't know Patrick. I have a left cylinder head, complete and in good shape with no pulley.  But I also have a complete right cylinder head WITH a pulley. So I was going to take that pulley off and use it for the left one. No idea about camshafts but I'd have to say no they don't match since I'm mixing and matching heads.

[John Schmidt]

Might want to check that mix/match a bit but I recently did just that on my 1200. I had a damaged left cam and the rocker box that fits down over the cam. I had a good right side set so was able to reverse it, bolted it together and runs fine. Our Valks may be different but it worked on my old 1200 Wing. To use the large sprockets on either side on the 1200 you just flip the sprocket over, depending on which side it will be used on. Keep in mind, the rocker box on the Valk cylinder head can be removed to expose the cam but also involves more work.

[98valk]

make sure both camshafts are either "R1" or "R2", don't mix them.

[cogsman]

make sure both camshafts are either "R1" or "R2", don't mix them.

I was sincerely hoping that I wouldn't have to open up the right head. I'm assuming that's what I will have to do to check if that camshaft is r1 or r2? Help me understand what this is all about as I don't know.  Why is this important?

[Patrick]

Difference between 49 state and CA camshafts. The grind / valve timing is different.

[indybobm]

The left-right pullies are the same part number and interchangeable. You should not have to pull the right cover to check the number on the camshaft,just compare the cam in the installed head with the one in the spare head.
97 Valks had different cams. 98-03 had the same cams. Left cam is different from right cam and are not interchangeable.

[cogsman]

How would I check if the camshaft is r1 or r2? Is it scribed somewhere?

[98valk]

How would I check if the camshaft is r1 or r2? Is it scribed somewhere?

yep, stamped btwn lobes. u would also see in another area L and R for left and right.
if u have R1s their the high performance cams, R2 are emission cams.
see here
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,54105.0.html

[cogsman]

Ok I checked and the cam says L and R2.

[Blackduck]

Do you have access to a large drill or holesaws?  Just punch a large enough hole in the pulley to get a  socket through onto the bolts.
Would need to lock the pulley so it does not turn as that will usually snap a drill bit.

[cogsman]

Do you have access to a large drill or holesaws?  Just punch a large enough hole in the pulley to get a  socket through onto the bolts.
Would need to lock the pulley so it does not turn as that will usually snap a drill bit.

Unfortunately not. I think the angle grinder is probably the best option. Is there a cheap holder for the pully or a cheap equivalent? Looks like dude in the post referenced above seems to have built one out of a 2x4 and screwdrivers

[98valk]

The left-right pullies are the same part number and interchangeable. You should not have to pull the right cover to check the number on the camshaft,just compare the cam in the installed head with the one in the spare head.
97 Valks had different cams. 98-03 had the same cams. Left cam is different from right cam and are not interchangeable.

all '98s have R2 cams, I've come across a few non-ca '97s that have R2, 99-03 could be R1 or R2. I've been checking with salvage places, the only constant I've found is for the '98s. one salvage place has a bike that had R1 one side and R2 the other side. they checked for me only valkyrie they had, they confirmed the cams.

[Red Diamond]

Here's what I would do, having a spare pulley and a spare cam shaft. First, set the timing marks at TDC; remove the timing tensioner and belt; remove the cam bearing covers and remove the cam and old pulley as a unit. Install the spare cam and spare pulley (torque to specs); make sure timing marks are aligned correctly. Reinstall timing belt and adjust belt tension. If you did not mess with the valve adjustment everything should retain its same adjustment as before removing. There is no need to install a complete head if the other was installed properly.
P.S. Forgot to mention that the back plate will also have to come off with the cam and pulley. After that you can cut it any way you want, or try sliding the back plate over the cam.

[Ricky-D]

The valve adjustment will not be retained when swapping cams. It is necessary to adjust the valves when changing camshafts.

***

[Red Diamond]

Sorry Ricky, that has already been done on my wrecked 03. The left cam pulley gear snapped just in front of the first journal. A kind VRCC member from Colorado gave me a set cams off his low mileage California bike. Mine just happened to be Ca. bike with the same mileage, did the install just as described and it runs great with no adjustments. I trusted the adjustments, if you don't then continue on.

[98valk]

RD is correct.
anytime a different camshaft is installed the valves need to be re-adjusted to that new camshaft.

[Patrick]

I have to agree with checking/adjusting the valves. For what little time it takes, its well worth it.

As good as these engines are made, the change may go well without doing it and the adjustments may be within a couple thousands and nothing out of the ordinary may be noticed. But, I'm adjusting them.

[NEHI]

   I am surprised that the weld stayed together, the camshaft is cast iron,  and cast iron does not weld very good.

[cogsman]

Ok I'm willing to try. God knows I'm in up to my ears at this point...

Can someone explain what the valve adjustment procedure is and where I can find the instructions? If it's in the service manual then I should be ok.

So basically I install the new head, install the pulley, and...?

I gather that just doing that without adjustmemts will create issues and I need to line things up somehow?

[Patrick]

There is a procedure for adjusting valves so you don't to turn the engine as often. But, all valves adjustments are the same. Just check the lash and adjust each cylinder when that respective piston is coming up toward TDC on compression stroke. Its easy to remove all the sparklers and adjust one cylinder at a time. Mind which valve is which as the adjustments for intake and exhaust are different, which is easy on these monsters. Just make sure the adjustment is made while the follower is on the flat of the camshaft lobe. If memory serves, intake .006", exhaust .009"

[98valk]

There is a procedure for adjusting valves so you don't to turn the engine as often. But, all valves adjustments are the same. Just check the lash and adjust each cylinder when that respective piston is coming up toward TDC on compression stroke. Its easy to remove all the sparklers and adjust one cylinder at a time. Mind which valve is which as the adjustments for intake and exhaust are different, which is easy on these monsters. Just make sure the adjustment is made while the follower is on the flat of the camshaft lobe. If memory serves, intake .006", exhaust .009"

your memory still serves u well Pat, 6 and 9 is correct.

u know the valve is in the correct position to adjust, when u easliy have wiggle side to side movement of the rocker arm. if u can't move the rocker arm u can't adjust.

[Pete]

   I am surprised that the weld stayed together, the camshaft is cast iron,  and cast iron does not weld very good.

Welding cast iron is really not that difficult with the newer wire welders. The issue is that the weld is usually stronger than the cast iron.

Whoever welded the pulley to the cam should be forced to lick the it off.

[DK]

   I am surprised that the weld stayed together, the camshaft is cast iron,  and cast iron does not weld very good.

Welding cast iron is really not that difficult with the newer wire welders. The issue is that the weld is usually stronger than the cast iron.

Whoever welded the pulley to the cam should be forced to lick the it off.

I agree re:  licking It off.

I've noticed that MIG welding wire for cast iron is now available. If it actually works, opens a lot of possibilities.

[da prez]

  Cogsman , if you have not started yet , if it was my job , I would put a non cutting pilot on a hole saw and cut the sprocket off. This can also be done by using a hole saw in a board and then attaching the board to the engine and using it to pilot the hole saw. You do not need the center pilot then.
  I have used both methods several times.

                               da prez

[cogsman]

  Cogsman , if you have not started wet , if it was my job , I would put a non cutting pilot on a hole saw and cut the sprocket off. This can also be done by using a hole saw in a board and then attaching the board to the engine and using it to pilot the hole saw. You do not need the center pilot then.
  I have used both methods several times.

                               da prez

What kind of hole saw blades do I need to cut metal this thick?

[Firefighter]

If you can center a drill bit close enough over the bolt, might be easier to drill with good bits. Could start small and work your way up. I haven't checked, will one hole work where you can turn the shaft to get to all bolts?

[cogsman]

If you can center a drill bit close enough over the bolt, might be easier to drill with good bits. Could start small and work your way up. I haven't checked, will one hole work where you can turn the shaft to get to all bolts?

Yes but how can I get the camshaft out if I don't separate the pulley?

[Firefighter]

 I thought if you took the bolts out of the cam cover (behind the timing gear) that you might be able to move the cover forward enough to pull the cam. Maybe I am wrong, I have never had the cam out.

[Firefighter]

If you do try a hole saw, it will need to be a quality one not a cheapy. That will probably work. If you have that extra cam and gear I guess you could look at it to determine what size hole saw to use. Smaller the better.

[da prez]

  A bi-metal hole saw . Cut slowly and lube with WD-40 or dish soap/water mix. It will extend the life of the saw. The sprocket is not that hard. I just did this type of job on a Harley chain sprocket that was no longer available. I adapted a new one from another bike to fit. Drive sprockets are harder than cam sprockets.

                                            da prez