Rear Brake Problem

[3fan4life]

A friend of mine is having an issue with his VTX1800.

The pad retaining pin is comming into contact with the rotor:





I helped him install the new brakes and verified that the rotor was clearing the pin at that time.

Even though it's a VTX1800 the set up is very similar to our Valks, I simply cannot figure out how this could've occurred.

The only thing that I could think of was that the rear caliper bolt had came loose, but he says it was tight.


Any help is appreciated and Thank You in Advance.

[Gryphon Rider]

Mysterious!  All I can think of off the top of my head is a really bad wheel bearing.

[3fan4life]

Mysterious!  All I can think of off the top of my head is a really bad wheel bearing.

Hadn't considered that.

The wheel looked and felt good, and the bike only has about 12k mi on the clock.

I will look at it closer though.

[da prez]

  If it is a bushing mount pin , check the obvious. If I was working on it , I would assemble without the caliper and test movement. Ditto on checking the wheel bearings. Do a step by step check. Back to basics as I often say.  Start over and do not skip any thing. Brakes are not that important until you need them.

                                        da prez

[Ricky-D]

Well, your friend is obviously mistaken about the bolt being tight. You can see by looking at the wear on the bolt that it was at an angle when it wore which indicates it had been unconnected at the end. Put the bolt back in without the pads and you'll see that in order to have every condition satisfied the bolt had to be loose and out some.

***

[Paladin528]

Thats the pin showing the wear.  The pin can be loose as it goes into a hole on the other side of the caliper so it still shouldn't rub.
The only other possibility would have to be bearings.

[Gryphon Rider]

Well, your friend is obviously mistaken about the bolt being tight. You can see by looking at the wear on the bolt that it was at an angle when it wore which indicates it had been unconnected at the end. Put the bolt back in without the pads and you'll see that in order to have every condition satisfied the bolt had to be loose and out some.

***

He was certain that the rear caliper bolt was tight, as opposed to the pad retention pin being tight, but good catch on the angular wear pattern.

3fan4life, does the wear mark now line up with the rotor?  If Ricky-D is right, the pin would not have been screwed in far enough, and now that the pin is tight, the wear mark should be farther in than the rotor.

[3fan4life]

Well we thought that we had the problem fixed.

Pulled the brake and found that the spring pad was broken.

Replaced the spring pad and the hanger pin.

Everything seemed good and then it starts grinding against the pad, pin and lightly on the caliper itself

We took the wheel off last night to check the bearings and they were in great shape.

Everything went back easily.

The rotor clears the pin but not by much (about 1/8") which it's been doing all along until it decides not to clear it.


I'm still at a loss as to why this keeps occurring.

Any Ideas?


I signed up on the VTXOA board so that I could post the same question, No answers as of yet.

Besides, you guys are smarter........ 

 

[Harryc]

There's a brake stopper bolt on the VTX1800's. Is it there and not worn? (Part #17 in this diagram)  http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2005/VTX1800C2+A/REAR+BRAKE+CALIPER+%28%2705-%29/parts.html

[3fan4life]

There's a brake stopper bolt on the VTX1800's. Is it there and not worn? (Part #17 in this diagram)  http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2005/VTX1800C2+A/REAR+BRAKE+CALIPER+%28%2705-%29/parts.html

It's  there and looks good to me.

There's no play in the bracket.

At least none that I can get out of it trying to move it by hand.

[3fan4life]

The question about part #17 does bring a question to mind,

Should there be a bushing of some kind in either the swingarm or the caliper bracket?

I can't find one on the parts diagram but it would make sense that if there was supposed to be one there and it was missing that it could allow for excess play.

I know that there isn't one in his caliper bracket, I'm not sure about the swingarm.

[hubcapsc]

The question about part #17 does bring a question to mind,

Should there be a bushing of some kind in either the swingarm or the caliper bracket?

I can't find one on the parts diagram but it would make sense that if there was supposed to be one there and it was missing that it could allow for excess play.

I know that there isn't one in his caliper bracket, I'm not sure about the swingarm.

I just did this, perhaps it will help... go to ebay and put in vtx1800 caliper bracket,
and you'll have lots of pictures to grope through, maybe you'll see something?

-Mike

[3fan4life]

The question about part #17 does bring a question to mind,

Should there be a bushing of some kind in either the swingarm or the caliper bracket?

I can't find one on the parts diagram but it would make sense that if there was supposed to be one there and it was missing that it could allow for excess play.

I know that there isn't one in his caliper bracket, I'm not sure about the swingarm.

I just did this, perhaps it will help... go to ebay and put in vtx1800 caliper bracket,
and you'll have lots of pictures to grope through, maybe you'll see something?

-Mike

I thought of that too.

I didn't see any bushings in any of them.

[Valkpilot]

Like the Valk, it's a floating caliper setup, in other words, the caliper is supposed to move side-to-side, laterally to the long axis of the bike.

Make sure it moves freely, because I wonder if it is getting bound up at an angle or is frozen too far in or out.  I had this problem once and it prevented slipping the caliper with installed pads over the disc during a pad change.

[3fan4life]

Like the Valk, it's a floating caliper setup, in other words, the caliper is supposed to move side-to-side, laterally to the long axis of the bike.

Make sure it moves freely, because I wonder if it is getting bound up at an angle or is frozen too far in or out.  I had this problem once and it prevented slipping the caliper with installed pads over the disc during a pad change.

The caliper seems to move just like it should.

[3fan4life]

I found a downloadable shop manual for the VTX 1800.

Apparently there is not a bushing that belongs in either place.

The manual recommends replacing the Rear Caliper Stopper Pin Bolt (Part #17) every time that it is removed.

It calls it an ALOC Bolt.

That's the first time that I've ever seen anything stating to replace that bolt with a new one.



Does anyone know why that's the recommendation and if it's really necessary? 

[Jess from VA]

I don't know about that particular bolt, but as far as I know, Honda wants you to replace every bolt on the bike that comes new with dry loctite of some kind on the threads, every time it's removed.  Like the rotor mount bolts.

It calls it an ALOC Bolt.   ALOC means "locking compound already applied".

I don't do it, I just take it as a reminder to add a bit of blue loctite when I reuse them.

I seem to recall someone writing that these bolts stretch.  Really?  

[3fan4life]

I THINK THAT I FOUND THE PROBLEM.

Putting everything back together over the weekend I discovered that the Bolt Pin was slightly bent.

Shown here as part of the bracket assembly:

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2007/VTX1800N1+1A/REAR+BRAKE+CALIPER/parts.html

The parts diagram for the VTX does not list it as a separate part.
 
I recognized it as being the same as the one on the 1500 Valkyrie (part #13):

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2000/GL1500CF+A/REAR+BRAKE+CALIPER/parts.html

We couldn't be guaranteed to get one before Oss' ride this weekend.

So, I "Borrowed" one from one of my Valkyries that is awaiting Big BF's attention.

The clearance is still close but it looks better and the caliper is sitting nice and straight.

Keeping fingers crossed that this was the problem and everything is now Good to go for our trip to New York this weekend.

[Harryc]

Awesome you found the problem. No worries on the trip. We can just strip parts off of OSS's bike if you have another problem. He's so good he doesn't need brakes. .