petcock again

[holly]

   I'm new to this board, so before I ask my petcock question, I guess I should give a short intro. I am almost 67 and have been riding since I was about 17. I have owned about 21 bikes during that time period, all the major Japanese brands, mostly Honda and Suzuki. The 2003 Valkyrie standard that I currently have is probably my favorite.

   That being said I am beginning to have issues with my petcock and have some questions about the operation of the pingle. Does the manual pingle need to be turned to the off position every time the bike is parked or just when it is parked for an extended period of time, such as overnight? I would think the latter but I do not want to be turning it of every time I stop. Also what happens to with the vacuum line that connects to the oem petcock? Who is going to have the best price? The cheapest I have found for the 1311-ch is 108.00.

                                                                                 

[hubcapsc]

I like the regular petcock, the "rebuild kit" for it
is called a "cover set" on the parts fiche... the
screen for it is good to replace at the same time.

If you can remember to always turn off your pingel,
it will reduce your chances for hydrolock...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yes it should be turned off each time. The vacuum gets capped at the intake. You can get a cover set repair kit to fix your stock petcock . Hubcap beat me. (What he said)

[longrider]

Vacuum for the oem  petcock comes off the chrome intake runner on cyl 6 the rear cylinder left side.  I am on my third valk since 1998 and  test the vacuum side at least a couple times a year  this is easily done by pulling the line off #6 and applying vacuum to it    I on average I've had to replace about every two years.  Sometimes 18 months and the next time 3 years.  I just suck on the hose and put my toungue over the end for ten or fifteen seconds.  Signs thatitsnot functioning are lack of power under a long pull or feeling like the bike is running out of gas far sooner than normal   Hope this helps

[MarkT]

Disagree on thinking any work on the OEM petcock will save you from hydrolock.  Got tired of fighting that leaky expensive POS since 1997 and replaced it on 2 of my 4 Valks.  All of them except George who is supercharged with different fuel system, have a Dan-Marc electric fuel shutoff. George and Jade have a Pingel. If you get a Pingel then remove the vacuum line from #6 and plug it.  Some mod the OEM petcock to make it manual - I did that on Jade but then got tired of the leaks and replaced it.  If you get a Pingel or not, I recommend getting the Dan-Marc solenoid so your fuel is always shut off when the engine is not running.  If you do, then you can leave either the OEM or Pingel petcock on.  Unless you don't trust the Dan-Marc.  There have been no reports on the Valk boards of Dan-Marcs leaking.  For now until you improve your fuel system always turn the OEM petcock off for anything longer than a lunch stop.

[_Sheffjs_]

Pingel petcock and shut off every time.


what are the negatives on the Pingel?

[Gideon]

Disagree on thinking any work on the OEM petcock will save you from hydrolock.  Got tired of fighting that leaky expensive POS since 1997 and replaced it on 2 of my 4 Valks.  All of them except George who is supercharged with different fuel system, have a Dan-Marc electric fuel shutoff. George and Jade have a Pingel. If you get a Pingel then remove the vacuum line from #6 and plug it.  Some mod the OEM petcock to make it manual - I did that on Jade but then got tired of the leaks and replaced it.  If you get a Pingel or not, I recommend getting the Dan-Marc solenoid so your fuel is always shut off when the engine is not running.  If you do, then you can leave either the OEM or Pingel petcock on.  Unless you don't trust the Dan-Marc.  There have been no reports on the Valk boards of Dan-Marcs leaking.  For now until you improve your fuel system always turn the OEM petcock off for anything longer than a lunch stop.

Are there any advantages to having a Dan-Marc installed with the stock OEM petcock? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Disagree on thinking any work on the OEM petcock will save you from hydrolock.  Got tired of fighting that leaky expensive POS since 1997 and replaced it on 2 of my 4 Valks.  All of them except George who is supercharged with different fuel system, have a Dan-Marc electric fuel shutoff. George and Jade have a Pingel. If you get a Pingel then remove the vacuum line from #6 and plug it.  Some mod the OEM petcock to make it manual - I did that on Jade but then got tired of the leaks and replaced it.  If you get a Pingel or not, I recommend getting the Dan-Marc solenoid so your fuel is always shut off when the engine is not running.  If you do, then you can leave either the OEM or Pingel petcock on.  Unless you don't trust the Dan-Marc.  There have been no reports on the Valk boards of Dan-Marcs leaking.  For now until you improve your fuel system always turn the OEM petcock off for anything longer than a lunch stop.

Are there any advantages to having a Dan-Marc installed with the stock OEM petcock? 

Peace of mind that if it fails, you won't get a hydrolock .

[pastmast95]

Just get a Pingle! I did as soon as I got my Valkyrie. It's easy, key on, gas on, Key off Gas off. It will become habit in no time, in fact you will check it several times until you get used to it! Old school, less parts less worry!

[gordonv]

It is thought there is enough fuel in the fuel line after your petcock/pingle. So even changing to a pingle you can still have hydro lock.

The Dan Marc fuel solenoid shut off, is mounted near to the carbs, and there is not enough fuel in the line after it (no cases of hydro lock via the carbs reported).

There is also the petcock diaphragm leak, which can allow fuel to flow down the vacuum line to cylinder 6.

I test my OEM petcock when driving down the Hwy. Turn off the fuel and wait for the carbs to start to starve of fuel. If it doesn't die, then either it's not functioning properly or I haven't got it turned to the correct position.

[MarkT]

It is thought there is enough fuel in the fuel line after your petcock/pingel. So even changing to a pingel you can still have hydro lock.

The Dan Marc fuel solenoid shut off, is mounted near to the carbs, and there is not enough fuel in the line after it (no cases of hydro lock via the carbs reported).

There is also the petcock diaphragm leak, which can allow fuel to flow down the vacuum line to cylinder 6.

I test my OEM petcock when driving down the Hwy. Turn off the fuel and wait for the carbs to start to starve of fuel. If it doesn't die, then either it's not functioning properly or I haven't got it turned to the correct position.

Got some comments on this:

Doubt the fuel could drain down in the fuel line if there is no air/fuel venting in at the top.  In particular, the Valk is very sensitive in flow on that fuel line - if it isn't level or steady downhill as well as having inward flow at the south end of the line, you get starvation.  Happened to me and others.  BUT - maybe a slow drain rate of it's not outright stopped by the lack of a vent.

The petcock diaphram leak - look at the design of the petcock, the locations of the diaphrams and the vent hole.  Both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and you will know you have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, you will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak. There is a mod to change the OEM petcock to full manual, and eliminate the vacuum function - and close off the vacuum line. Here's a thread by Gryphon Rider posted on the VRCC board, on that mod: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=37577.0
I have not heard of any hydrolocks that were verified as having gone thru the vacuum line.  Correct me if you have a link.

Your test does not prove your petcock is working properly. Just proves it will slow the fuel down enough for the engine to starve.  Doesn't prove you don't have a SLOW leak which will still hydrolock the bike under the right conditions.

A disadvantage of the Pingel is the location and size of the selector lever.  Definitely hard to find with gloves on. I added lever extenders on mine that project downward on George and Jade.  Still would be difficult to move to reserve while on the roll, with gloves on.

On Jade - you can see that here above the brass T which comes from the belly tank pump, goes to the filler line and the "oiler valve".

[_Sheffjs_]

Just get a Pingle! I did as soon as I got my Valkyrie. It's easy, key on, gas on, Key off Gas off. It will become habit in no time, in fact you will check it several times until you get used to it! Old school, less parts less worry!

   still check many times.  LOL.

[holly]

   Thanks to all of you for the advice. I guess I am still confused as to why the Pingle or any other manual petcock needs to be shut off anytime the bike is turned off. Is it just something about the way the Valkyrie is set up or are we just being extra cautious? I hardly ever shut off the gas unless I know I am not going to ride for a good while. That being said, I did have a 1983 GS 1100 that hydrolocked. I did not know at the time what had happened, but after reading on this board, I am sure that was exactly what happened. That particular bike had set a long time without being ridden.

[Harryc]

There are several conditions that must exist for Hydrolock to happen.  The (2) main culprits are a leaking stock petcock 'and' a stuck or dirty float needle. Yeah the cylinder with the bad float needle needs to be in the right position, blah, blah, blah. The problem is depending on how stuck the float needle is in the open position it might not take long for gas to flood into the cylinder and hydrolock the engine. I think an hour is pushing it if these conditions exist. With that said, I prefer to mitigate the possibilities. So what does that mean. I have a Pingle, others have a Pingle and a Danmarc, and I replaced the other offenders. I'd suggest replacing the float needles as 5 year maintenance on these bikes just for peace of mind. More often if you store them for more than a few months with fuel in them. Do I leave the petcock open at rest stops...yes I do. But I also know my float needles are not likely to leak. So, up to you but it's the nature of the beast. Honestly the Danmarc is probably the best solution for peace of mind if you're not meticulous about maintenance. Frequent stock petcock rebuilds...also not a bad idea. I don't know....every three years maybe. Many folks here say the stock petcocks are junk no matter how many times they are replaced or rebuilt. BTW, these intervals are my intervals, not Hondas. You'd have to decide what is best for you. Here's a much better explanation of hydrolock and the implications of it ... http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html

...and the link for the Danmarc - http://www.dan-marc.com/79-afc11112.html

[holly]

   Thanks HarryC, it seems as though we are trying to get all the bases covered here to prevent any serious problems. I think I am going to start with getting a Pingle valve. I do not want to be continuously replacing, overhauling, or checking an oem valve.

[Bone]

Now that you have made up your mind here is what I did with the OEM petcock.
It's in the archives in more detail I took my OEM and made it manual. I was waiting for a rebuild kit
being mailed to me.
I still have the kit I'm running the converted petcock. Over 100k miles, not one drip or problem.
I do shut it off every time I turn off the bike.

[gordonv]

Harryc, you've read up enough and know what the Dreaded Hydro Lock sound would be heard as and when?

(for all who read this thread)
There is your first line of defense, your finger. I don't do it, but some say they tap their starter switch a few times to allow the engine to turn over a full revolution, thus confirming there is no hydro lock.

If you hear a Thump! after pushing the starter switch, STOP and do not push it again. With the bike outside, away from other items you don't want fuel on, remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over, paying attention to which cylinder the fuel will spray out of (10').

[Harryc]

@gordonv, thanks Bro. I knew most of that but it's always good to get the word out there...repeatedly. This forum is both a blessing and a curse.  It's a blessing because you guys know your stuff and expert advice is the best advice. It's a curse because I usually listen, and listening can be expensive. Lol. I ordered a Danmarc yesterday. Today I went out and got all the parts needed to install it. Fast as fast can be...hydrolock won't get me.

[gordonv]

If/when I ever get around to it, I'm going to add on an electric fuel pump instead.

It will act as a fuel shut off when not running, but will bump fuel UP to the carbs.

Most likely will be done sometime with the de-smog and the cruise control install. I hope before Valhalla/InZane this year, would like that CC on the Hwy drive.

[Firefighter]

On the other end of the spectrum, my bike is all original and I never turn the fuel off. I ride mine alot so the carbs stay clean and the fuel is always fresh.

I understand those who want a piece of mind, I believe the engine has to be removed to repair a hydrolock. Always turn the fuel off if trailering the bike.

[MarkT]

If/when I ever get around to it, I'm going to add on an electric fuel pump instead.

It will act as a fuel shut off when not running, but will bump fuel UP to the carbs.

Most likely will be done sometime with the de-smog and the cruise control install. I hope before Valhalla/InZane this year, would like that CC on the Hwy drive.

Fuel pumps have their own set of problems. The pump used in the belly tank kit tends to overheat as it's not immersed in fuel like the one on your cage. Several folks have been put to the side of the road from that failure. That's why I replumbed my belly tank fuel system so it remains gravity feed. If the pump fails all I lose is the extra fuel in the belly.

The Dan-Marc is still the best answer to prevent hydrolock.  The bigger one won't cause fuel starvation if you haul big loads.  Like a heavy trailer.

[h13man]

Just get a Pingle! I did as soon as I got my Valkyrie. It's easy, key on, gas on, Key off Gas off. It will become habit in no time, in fact you will check it several times until you get used to it! Old school, less parts less worry!

Mine was already converted to the Pingle. As far as shutting off all the time becomes habit to me from the old days even on my 1100 Shadow (fuel pump). As far as "vapor lock", the Shadow was the only vehicle I ever owned that would do this. Easy fix, choke it until it runs and ride out of it so to speak.

[hubcapsc]

Just get a Pingle! I did as soon as I got my Valkyrie. It's easy, key on, gas on, Key off Gas off. It will become habit in no time, in fact you will check it several times until you get used to it! Old school, less parts less worry!

Mine was already converted to the Pingle. As far as shutting off all the time becomes habit to me from the old days even on my 1100 Shadow (fuel pump). As far as "vapor lock", the Shadow was the only vehicle I ever owned that would do this. Easy fix, choke it until it runs and ride out of it so to speak.

We here at Valkyrie central laugh at "vapor"lock... it is
"hydro" lock that we fear 

-Mike

[redripper]

I know I'm late adding my  $.02. I have a possible solution for  OEM petcock vacume line leak concern into #6 Carb. KISS! keep it simple -----. I have added a very long vacuum hose forward along the underside of the tank. The hose extends through the "neck" cover and up into the faring, well above the tank height. Then loops back down to carb #6. I don't believe any leak would go up hill. I suppose any fuel that may leak would be drawn into # 6 carb? If you wanted to get complicated add a "T" into the long vacuum line and add a clear piece of line (capped off). Then any fuel that accumulated in the line would settle into the clear line when the vacuum was removed, you could see it!

[Jruby38]

There is not enough gas in the line with the Pingle off. I checked mine and it was not even 2 oz.

[valkyriemc]

The petcock. Literally hundreds of posts going back years. Here's some posts which may help from 2014. My post in this series reflects the install of the vacuume Pingle model, which wasn't cheap but have had zero issues with it over the years. My modest contribution was the last post. I went through some headaches until I got rid of the original Honda version. Anyway, hope this helps...

 http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,74530.0.html