Second Of Two Things - Grab Rail, Backrest, and Luggage Rack

[Bill Havins]

Here's my new "build."  I have begun to design a replacement grab rail for my Valkyrie.  Judy tells me the ones on the bike are, er, "Useless!"  It is impossible for her to get her hands around any part of them when we are traveling at speed.  And there are other difficulties with them.

The sissy bar that Honda makes is "okay."  I may try to incorporate it in my design.

And the Yamaha luggage rack some of us are using is stylish enough, but it really isn't "exactly" what the rear fender of the Valkyrie wants (width, attachment length, etc.).

So, for the last several months I have been designing a new grab rail and luggage rack for my Valkyrie.  We will be making a run to the Grand Canyon in a few weeks and, when we get back, I will finish the design and send it to a professional fabricator to get an estimate of the price for each piece.  This fabricator will do all of the welding but does not do chrome plating.  I am aware of a plating shop in Austin that does great work, but I may have mine powder coated.

If others would like to see the designs as I work on them I will post images to this thread.  Since the fabricator uses CNC tube benders he can quickly crank out from 1 to 100 sets; if I order in quantity the price per piece goes down dramatically.

I am going to get mine built one way or another.  But I'd be glad to share the design with our community if it would help others tour more comfortably.

Let's kick this one around, too.  I'm glad to help our little community get functional quality accessories at prices that are more than reasonable.

Cheers!

Bill

[sleepngbear]

Duh, she's supposed to be hanging on to you, not the bike!!

[Bill Havins]

Similar to the fairing, it is obvious there is no interest in this.

I appreciate getting the question settled (saves a bit of time).

Cheers!

Bill

[Verismo]

I have been away from the forum for a bit and missed this part, but I DEFINITELY would like to see the progress!  You do great work, Bill, and I bet some custom rails and matching rack would look great!! 

[dans2014]

 I won't argue the Japan bikes are the most reliable but I would still own the BMW if I could stand to pay the price!

[goldstar903]

I won't argue the Japan bikes are the most reliable but I would still own the BMW if I could stand to pay the price!

??????  ???

[pago cruiser]

Hey Bill!

I'm interested in your design.  Have been looking at fabbing my own, but there are not a lot of places to attach things on this bike; the Legacy valk was easier with the fender strut bolted onto each side. Not sure what to bolt to, unless just making vertical risers coming off the fender.

Don't have any close-ups of just the rack, and it's cold outside...  But you get the gist.  I bought (2) Hondaline racks, split 'em lingth wise, fabbed some rectangular and round insets, welded the pieces together, and then welded on another set of ears for the Legacy Valk backrest.

 


Temporarily, have been looking on ebay a bit for the smallish version that bolts to the Backrest.  While plenty of the "dimpled" Yamaha mounts ae out there, none of the flat mounts that you used.  Do you know if the dimpled could be used if it was simple flatened?  Or maybe just cut off the ears with the dimples and weld on new tabs?


 

[Robert]

Bill pictures please 

[hubcapsc]

Yeah! That's an awesome and usable rear fender rack, rather than the curved "beauty" rack that
most of us put on our 1500s (if we can find one)...



I want to make a rear fender rack for my 1800, it will replace my passenger seat and grab rails,
and attach to the bike where the grab rails go. It will end up incorporating this old-style Harley rack (or
be based on it):



Also: the Utopia guy sent me the part of a Utopia backrest mount that the backrest bolts onto,
that will be part of my new rack, too... so the 1800 will be solo, with a Russell seat a Utopia
backrest and a nice flat usable fender rack.

I'm jealous of you guys who can fabricate and weld, because I'll have to take my
ideas to a local fabricator and hope he can realize what I am imagining...

-Mike

[pago cruiser]

That rack was fun - I can carry (2) cases of beer, no sweat - but it takes 8 bungies...

You'd be surprised what you can do with hand tools, a vice, and good Dremel with a bunch of different tools - cutoff, grinding, carbide, sanding, etc (give the battery powered one to a neighbor kid), a 4" cutoff hand grinder, and a Harbor Freight table top bench sander. My workshop is a 10 x 20 Toughshed...

Most of the time for projects is in design and fab - hours, sometimes days; or longer.  Welding is the least amount of time - usually minutes.  I did eventually get a MIG welder a couple years ago, but unless you use it daily, your skills do not improve.  Unless it is something really simple, I generally just tack stuff into place, and then take it to 1 of a couple good welders I know for welding quality I trust.

That said, every time I weld my grinding skillset improves nicely...  

[hubcapsc]

give the battery powered one to a neighbor kid

Not anymore... I gave my Husqvarna chainsaw to Stanley Steamer,
I have a 56volt Ego chainsaw now. It feels like a plastic toy, but I've
cleaned up plenty of Irma damage with it. Electric tools don't gum
up with ethanol either  ...

As for hand tools, check out DeWalt flexvolt tools... I built Carolyn's
barn (no power there) with DeWalt's original version of "full power"
lithium tools (36volt), and still use the 36volt reciprocating saw
in conjunction with the 56volt chainsaw when limbing and cutting...



-Mike "oops... this is Bill's grabrail thread... "

[Bill Havins]

Pago cruiser called me a few minutes ago to tell me this thread has "revived," or whatever.  My "part time" job is kicking my behind right now, so I haven't been looking at the forum (brain dead when I get home).

Life got complicated back in October when we tried to ride to the Grand Canyon.  We went down in mud the second day out (at 5 MPH) and the bike landed on Judy's ankle - she broke one of the long bones in her right leg.  Three days later she was hobbling around on her walker, ran out of energy, and missed the stool she was desperately trying to lean on - broke her hip on the same leg.  So, things have been, er, stressful.  Now all of the insurance companies are trying to decide which one will pay for what (motorcycle vs. homeowner's vs. health insurance, vs. who knows who else will get involved).

Yes, I really want a better rack and grab rails for our Valkyrie.  Those who are interested can participate in a "group buy" with the tubing bender - finishing would be up to you.

I'll share more thoughts on Tuesday when I have a day off.  We can "grow our own design", or two).

Cheers!

Bill

[Kidd]

Damn , talk about unlucky . Not time to give up motorcycling ? Hang in there . Spring is around the corner

[ledany]

Life got complicated back in October when we tried to ride to the Grand Canyon.  We went down in mud the second day out (at 5 MPH) and the bike landed on Judy's ankle - she broke one of the long bones in her right leg.  Three days later she was hobbling around on her walker, ran out of energy, and missed the stool she was desperately trying to lean on - broke her hip on the same leg.  So, things have been, er, stressful.  Now all of the insurance companies are trying to decide which one will pay for what (motorcycle vs. homeowner's vs. health insurance, vs. who knows who else will get involved).

Bill

Gloups Bill ! Bad news indeed ! Courage ! 

[Bill Havins]

Here are a couple of views of what I have been working on for a new rack and grab rails for my Valkyrie.

Top View:


Side View:


Judy (of broken ankle and broken hip fame) has told me she wants something she can grip when riding pillion and things get bumpy/breezy/just needs to hold on.  She can't get her hands around the stock grab rails.  I want to lower the Royal Star rack I have on my bike so that the rack is at the level of the top of the grab rails, and I want to fasten it to the frame (rather than the sissy bar).

I also need something to grab when I'm putting the bike on the center stand (Thanks for the info, guys!  It works great!).

In the design file renderings, above, the larger tubing is 19.05mm (3/4") diameter.  The smaller tubing is 12.7mm (1/2").  The front ends of the combined grab rails/rack follow the same lines as the front ends of the OEM grab rails.  The rack extends back as far as the Royal Star rack, but is lower on the bike.

I have crudely shown two of the mounting tabs for the grab rail/rack design - there's more to be done there, but you get the idea.  I also have to design the new sissy bar and its attachments.

Mitch (and others), I'm sure you have already seen this design will allow you to remove the rear seat and bolt an "inner rack" to the same bolts that run through the mounting tabs.

So, this is my initial "kill two rack designs with one file" work.  More later.

Bill

[bscrive]

That rack looks great Bill.  I will be interested in seeing it on your bike. 

[Bill Havins]

A little “stream of conciousness” here.  The “mass” of the parts on our bikes is pretty big - 1” handlebars, 1” engine guards, etc.  The grab rails and rack need to be made of larger tubing to “fit in” with the rest of the bike’s style.  More later.

Bill

[bscrive]

I would have to agree Bill.  Maybe bump the main bar to 1" tubing and leave the other webbing at 1/2".   If you go too big then you will probably have the same issue that you are having now.

[pago cruiser]

"Judy (of broken ankle and broken hip fame)..."

The model looks good Bill! Is it still going to be attached to the backrest?

What program are you using?

[Bill Havins]

Mitch,

I use RhinoCAD.  The renderer is Brazil.  Not for the faint-of-heart.

I'm still tinkering with the design and how the backrest attaches.  I really want to use 25 mm (1") tubing for the grab rail, but, the bends at the rear of the rack can't be done with 25 mm tubing (radius is too tight).  So....

I hope to have things 95% complete by the end of the year.  Then I'll mock up the rack and fit it to the bike (I'll shoot photos).  If I like it I'll send the file to a tubing bender to get an estimate.

Must be winter....I'm working on projects.

Bill

[Bill Havins]

My goal was to have a CAD design ready for the tube bender by the first of the year.  I may actually make it.  Wow.

Here are some images:

Ortho view:


Top view:


And a front view:


So, why do this?  As above, Judy wants something to hang on to when things get bumpy/breezy/or she just wants to hold on.  That's enough reason for me.

When I mounted the Star rack on my bike I intended to use it "for a little while."  Okay.  It's been a little while.

The Star rack rides too high on the sissy bar for my tastes.  And it sticks back too far.  So, two of my design goals were to lower the rack and shorten it about 40mm.  Done.

The grab rails on the Valkyrie are just plain hard to grip.  So, I wanted to develop a design that could be gripped easily, but was not too small in diameter.  I also wanted the grab rails to sit at a level just at the top of Judy's "custom-stuffed" pillion perch.  And I wanted the grab rails to angle away from the seat just a scooch, without interfering with the open lids of my Corbin panniers.  Done.

Finally, I wanted the luggage rack/grab rails and sissy bar to "stack" and mount directly to the four bolts that hold the OEM grab rails in place.  Done.  I'm going to discard the OEM grab rails.

When designing something like this you have to pay attention to the amount of "hassle" in trying to manufacture the design - some things that can be designed can't be manufactured.  So, the sissy bar is designed to be made of 12.7mm (1/2") solid rod.  Its mounts are all the same and are made from 19.05mm wide (3/4") 3.175mm (1/8") thick strap.

The outside tube of the luggage rack is made of 19.05mm (3/4") tubing.  The grab rails are bent as separate pieces.  The forward ends of the luggage rack  are notched to fit the front leg of the grab rails.  The rear ends of the grab rails are notched to lay flat on the outside tube of the luggage rack.  The grab rails are "canted out" slightly.

The two inside pieces that form the inner "surface" of the luggage rack are 12.7mm (1/2") tubing.  They are notched and welded to the outside tube of the luggage rack.

The luggage rack mounts are similar to the mounts for the sissy bar (19.05mm X 3.175mm thick strap).  The mounts of the luggage rack are held up from the frame by 24mm long 21mm diameter spacers.

Not expensive material.  Not too many welds.  Bends held to a minimum.  I'll continue to refine it and get it sent to the tube bender on January 2.

Cheers!

Bill

[Crabballs]

Nice!  Let us know when they go on sale.

[pago cruiser]

Awesume Bill!

"some things that can be designed can't be manufactured." I fight this battle often...

Not that I would want to make this more effort for you... , but...

If you were to NOT weld the sissy bar on, but to use (4) horizontal tabs that allow the backrest to be bolted to the 4 upright risers (therefore easily removable), a companion rack piece (matching the luggage rack section) could then be fabbed/installed that would provide a luggage rack where the seat is - this would give you a luggage rack much longer, for the times you are not riding 2-up.   

This would allow you to carry say, a good sized duffle bag, or a big T-Bag, or one of those bundles of firewood you see being sold by the side of the road for $5...  Or maybe even (3)! six packs of Guinness...  making this 3X better than the stock rack!

Great job though. Once I get mine fabbed, I may ask you for the reference for your bender. My "flat" model takes about a dozen welds, fabbing half a dozen inserts, beating back into shape when the welding distorts the steel, etc.   You really have to want to do it  ... but it definitely could be easier.

[st2sam]

Awesume Bill!

Not that I would want to make this more effort for you... , but...

If you were to NOT weld the sissy bar on, but to use (4) horizontal tabs that allow the backrest to be bolted to the 4 upright risers (therefore easily removable), a companion rack piece (matching the luggage rack section) could then be fabbed/installed that would provide a luggage rack where the seat is - this would give you a luggage rack much longer, for the times you are not riding 2-up.   

Looks great Bill!
pago, IMHO you have a great suggestion.
(I never ride two up)

Bill I'm in, and I'll be the first order. Black powder coat please. 
                                             (silver would be ok too)

[Bill Havins]

Mitch, et. al.,

I took a "modular approach" to this design.  I thought pieces that could be "stacked" might be more useful to the community than a "take-it-or-leave-it" design.

Here is an "exploded" view of the rack (with the grab rails removed).



You can see in the image that the sissy bar has its own mounting tabs - stack it, or not.

And, as I described above, the grab rails are welded to the outside tube of the rack.  So, to add the grab rails, notch the front ends of the rack, notch the rear ends of the grab rails (so they lie flat on the outside tube of the rack), and weld.  Presto! Canted grab rails.

So, the rack can be used with or without a rear seat and sissy bar.

As far as the center insert goes (the insert rack that fills the void when the seat is removed), it can easily "stack" and bolt to the four mounting bolts that hold the rack (like the sissy bar does).

Any suggestions for the "look" of the center insert?

Bill

EDIT:  as I think about this I wonder if the grab rails could be made to bolt to the rack, rather than welding them in place....  BH

[pago cruiser]

Superb!
My $0.02 - maybe something that kinda matches the rear portion?
I'm at home, so do not have any basic editing tools like Bluebeam.  But as it would be removable, prolly need a perimeter frame paralleling the non-parallel  main members, then maybe with "internal" tubing that matches (in spacing) the rear part? 

Hope that makes sense...

[Bill Havins]

Superb!
My $0.02 - maybe something that kinda matches the rear portion?
I'm at home, so do not have any basic editing tools like Bluebeam.  But as it would be removable, prolly need a perimeter frame paralleling the non-parallel  main members, then maybe with "internal" tubing that matches (in spacing) the rear part? 

Hope that makes sense...

Got it!  Makes about as much sense as designing motorcycle accessories when it's 33° and drizzling outside - snow soon?  But what better time to be designing luggage racks?

I'll CAD something up tonight and post an image or two, unless I find I need to take a nap...

Bill

[Bill Havins]

Oops!  It's 28° - that ain't drizzle anymore.

[pago cruiser]

Yikes!
I hear ya - I'm trying to get the Legacy Valk Saddlebag mounts fabbed, and we are in a significant cooling trend here as well....



Just had to apply a 2nd layer of sunscreen.

 

If it makes you feel any better... I busted one of those flimsy rear fender rear mounts; not the clip, but the U-shaped stay on the fender that is about 1/16" thick. WTF???  
Whoever designed the rear fender mounting with those stupid plastic push in, pull them out with vice grips clips should have his lips perforated and then held together by these things - lets see him get them out without breaking something... 

[Bill Havins]

Didn't take a nap after all.  Here's a rack with an insert, ready to go (I think).  I am concerned about the front edge of the insert hitting the rear of the rider's seat.  Need to do some careful measuring to get it just right.

Top view:


Ortho view:


Cheers!

Bill

EDIT:  The insert has its own mounting tabs so it can be removed and the rack can be left on the bike (with rear seat installed, etc.).

[pago cruiser]

DANG! Nailed it.
You do good work!
Someone at Honda - or Show Chrome - should be interested in your talents.
Problem is, you would probably sell 10 of them  - and Show Chrome would need a commitment of 1000. 

[Bill Havins]

....would probably sell 10 of them  - and Show Chrome would need a commitment of 1000. 

And there's the rub.  Wonder how many GL1800 Valkyries were built?

[Bill Havins]

It's 23° with a light layer of mixed precipitation stuck to the roads - not going anywhere today.  So, what to do, what to do, what to do...

I have some large sheets of graph paper somewhere around here.  I'm going to layout the rack and then fix the graph paper to a piece of EPS foam board.  I'll then cut it on the band saw, lightly round the edges, and put it in place on the bike.  Images later.

At least that's my plan....after I feed the Blue Jays.

Bill

[pago cruiser]

"Mixed precipitation stuck to the roads": yuck.

The stock passenger seat rides on top of the rider seat. Could you elevate the front section of the rack to do the same?

And how do Blue Jays survive at 23F? Not like they have heated homes to spend the night in...

[Bill Havins]

... Could you elevate the front section of the rack to do the same?

The forward rail of the rack insert can be curved to "parallel" the curve of the back of the seat - no big deal to design.  The seat doesn't affect the outside rails of the rack, or the attachment points for that matter.

Blue Jays - riotous critters.  Plenty of personality.  And each one is different (we make them wear numbered jerseys so we can tell them apart - you believe that, don't you?).

Bill

[Robert]

That is some very nice work right there Bill, good job and looks like a great design. 

[Bill Havins]

I finished mocking up the rack this morning.  I did just the rack - no sissy bar or grab rails.  Here are some photos - first without the "flip" at the back of the rack:

Top view:


Side view:


Now with the "flip" added to the back of the rack.  First, perspective from front:


Perspective from rear:


Side view of "flip":


Having done this much I can tell the front ends of the rack just have to be curved down.  Without those curves (and without the "flip") this is just too plain to put on a Valkyrie.

I'm still not sure about the space between the rails of the rack and the edge of the seat.  Things are really exaggerated in the photos because of the height of Judy's pillion (it is, er, "padded").  But, the sissy bar will mount in the space between the seat and the rack side rails so, maybe, it will be okay.

The width of the rear fender on this scooter is pretty big - I widened the width of the rack (compared to the Star rack that I am currently using) to "fit" the width a bit better.

I'll mock up the grab rails next to see how that affects the overall look of things.

Other thoughts?

Bill

[tazzzed]

black powder coat and spider webbing in corners but thats just me lol
I look forward to finished product!! i did the yamaha rack  not to impressed with it other than the price!   thanks for what u do!!

[bscrive]

Bill, that looks pretty awesome.  Functional and looks cool.   

[tazzzed]

side question..... the corbin bags  once they are on are they easy to take off or are they a leave on kind of accessory?? and do you need the honda mount kit to hang them. the site does not say a whole lot..Thnaks