Considering Creating A "Shop" - What Does The Group Think?

[Bill Havins]

 In another thread I developed a luggage rack and sissy bar for the 1800 Valkyrie - http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,96688.0.html.  I then tried to find a tube bending shop that could build it for me.  That did not turn out well - prices were quoted at $4000 or so for one, or the shop would only do it if I ordered 100+, or they weren't equipped to deal with tubing as small as 1" in diameter.  The folks at Rivco did respond, but, ultimately, they said "No."

So, I'm trying to decide if I "tool up" and do my own, and then let riders know I can build "one off" racks, sissy bars, fairings, or whatever.  I will have to build some tooling but that is not a problem; I turn and mill metal frequently.  I think I have found a person who does TIG welding and is interested in jobs other than "production runs."

And I have my industrial sewing machine sitting near my computer.  So I could easily do "one off" seats when someone wanted something special.

I'm not interested in "making a living" doing this.  I'm really wanting to "fill a niche'" for folks who want something different or special, but can't find anyone to do it well.

Please share your "constructive" thoughts with me.  And if you have ever wanted/needed something that just couldn't be found please share what it was.

Thanks!

Bill

[hubcapsc]

I've got a 1800 Valkyrie fender rack idea I need help with. I described it
on one of the threads you started. I want to run solo (no passenger seat),
have a nice usable flat fender rack, and have the attachment point for my
Utopia backrest integrated into the rack. I want to get rid of the grab
handles and end up with a rack that attaches pretty much like Pago Cruiser's,
and is functionally equivalent to his plus the attachment point for the
backrest.

One thing you don't have that you might need to help me is my (or someone's) passenger seat with
its installed Utopia mount so that you can measure where the attachment
point needs to be relative to the bike.

The Utopia man has already sent me an attachment point, so that doesn't
need to be fabricated, just integrated...

-Mike

[Bill Havins]

Mike,

Do you have a link for the Utopia Backrest?

Thanks!

Bill

[hubcapsc]

Mike,

Do you have a link for the Utopia Backrest?

Thanks!

Bill

http://www.utpr.com/valkyrie.html

-Mike "killer backrest..."

[Verismo]

I say go for it, Bill!  Your work is quality and I wouldn't hesitate for a second ordering something from you.  I suppose the only caveat would be that motorcycle guys CAN get a little persnickety about the way their bikes are personalized, so I can imagine the job occasionally  turning into a little bit of a headache. But on the bright side, since you're building for the Goldwing line-up, you'll have a bunch of nice Goldwing guys making those requests.

Jason

[Jess from VA]

Do it, if it will be fun (or positively challenging) for you, and you don't loose too much time or money (or sanity).

I have tried to help people all my life in my area of expertise (and almost never been paid a nickel for it).

But there have been many times, I wish I had told people I was a pipe-fitter and not a lawyer.  And it was never about money, it was always about the headache.

I would suggest you go about it by asking people for a written proposal (with as much detail as possible), with the clear understanding that your decision to proceed or not is final (and unappealable).  If you proceed, and money must be discussed, I suggest you get at least half (if not all) up front of estimated costs.  And once money changes hands, you better have some kind of simple written contract ready to use, drafted entirely to cover your ass.  I apologize for my chronic pessimism about human interactions.

The old saying about hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst is a good one.

And just to add more pessimism to the equation, I might suggest you do a bit of casual reading up on your state laws about business licenses and related areas of headache.

[Bill Havins]

http://www.utpr.com/valkyrie.html

-Mike "killer backrest..."

Wow, Mike!  That's big!  Neat.

[pago cruiser]

Hey Bill,
As Jess indicated, I'd do it as long as it was fun; and your costs were (at least) covered.
How's the bending going???

Mike, could you post a pic of the mount?  It may not be a big deal to weld a counterpart to the flatrack.  I just got the 2-case rack back from the powdercoater, as well as the painted Legacy Valk saddlebags.  Unfortunately, the mounts kind of pretzled at the powdercoater, so I need to do some tweaking...  On the bike, not me...  LOL! 

[Bill Havins]

Mitch,

Tube bending...oh, yeah.  Hrmph. 

I'm in the process of CADing up a vertical tubing bender of my own design.  I'll machine my own dies.  I have researched until I'm blue in the face and no one makes dies for 9/16" tubing/rod.  And the 1/2", 3/4", and 1" dies just won't do what I want to do (successive and alternating curves with little space between them).  Soooo....  Not to mention they cost a bunch.

I thought I'd tool up to "do the impossible" and get my stuff done.  And then if someone wants a custom project done it will be much, much easier.

Judy is all for me doing the "shop" thing....if I want to.  As you know, I really enjoy making the impossible look like "that's how it was meant to be in the first place."  And functional, too.

We'll see what happens.  Your comments are appreciated!

Bill

[ledany]

Too bad the Utopia backrest is that huge ! I just need half this size or even the third of it - I'm 64 kg/141 lbs 

[hubcapsc]

Mike, could you post a pic of the mount?

When you get a Utopia backrest, you get the backrest, and a mount that
you attach to the underside of your passenger seat - you have to take
the cover and padding off of the seat to install the mount.

On a "real" mount, the flatstock you see below is 10-12 inches longer and
bent up perfectly to fit to the underside of the passenger seat on whatever
bike you have.

The Utopia man sent me the business end of the mount so that I could
hook it to the contraption I want to build. The part I have isn't complex,
but since he made it, it is not "like a Utopia mount", it is a Utopia mount,
and so whatever else happens, the backrest will mount perfectly to it.







-Mike

[Robert]

Bill its a great thought and it would work with you liking to be into projects. I would say that the problem would be the cost to do a project compared to the price you are able to charge. That has been the sticking point for all custom type work.

The other problem is some are not as creative as you or even know what something would look like till they have a mockup of it. Thats why many will settle with whats out there. Think of it as a house that is staged compared to one that is not, people just dont get the idea of what they want till they see it. They know they want something but dont know what that looks like. What happens lets say if you make something and its not to the liking of the customer also.

 I know guys that do some work in different areas than this and have name for themselves in their area of expertise.

So my other point is you sell yourself and your name not only the product. Guys will come to you to ask you to design and make something rather than just being a fabrication service.

A good fabricator/designer is always in need once their name gets out there.

Good luck on your venture

I dont know what I couldn't get since I made due with whatever was available.  

[turboyoshi]

I hope you go for it and find a way to make it cost effective and enjoyable for you.
I bought this bike as a do-it-all kind of bike. It's my only ride so I wanted something that could handle any kind of riding I might normally need or want to do, and be reliable for a fair price. The 1800 valk seemed to fit the best.

A couple thoughts:

I loved the fairing you made and would have wanted one, but having to change out my headlight to make it work means it's a more involved and expensive project that I want to commit to. If you could make a fairing like that with the original headlight, I'd buy it.

I don't like saddlebags on my bike since I don't need them most of the time so either a quick release kit w/bags or a trailer hitch would be something I'm interested in. I only know one company that makes a trailer hitch for our bike but they're in canada and I'm not sure if that hitch works with any trailer or just theirs. I don't know of any quick release kits for this bike.

Besides that, being 5'6", the only other thing I would like is either handebars, or risers that will give me maximum pullback (and maybe increase the angle a bit to be easier on my wrists) so I could ride most comfortably, maybe even leaning back a bit. This probably isn't an issue for most Valk riders though so I would understand if you felt it was not worth your time.

[Bill Havins]

[snip]....
I loved the fairing you made and would have wanted one, but having to change out my headlight to make it work means it's a more involved and expensive project that I want to commit to. If you could make a fairing like that with the original headlight, I'd buy it.
[snip]....

I have been seriously considering this for some time.  I have studied the headlight and its mountings (very minimal).  The adaptation can be done without too much trouble.  I would just need 5 people to want one and then I think I'd do it.

The Honda headlight fairing won't look just like mine; instead of the rounded headlight nacelle it will have a shape complementing the headlight.  it will tone down the "beak look" a fair bit.

Bill

[bscrive]

Bill, I agree with the res of the guys.  If it is going to be fun for you then do it.  :cool dude:  Once it becomes a headache, then stop doing it.

As for the Utopia seat.  I modified the one off my old Interstate to work with the new Valk.  The portion on the backrest part are all the same, it is just the part that attaches to the bike that is different.  I even put one on my wife's Spyder.  I bought an Utopia backrest off eBay made for a Suzuki Boulevard for $40 and modified the mounting bracket to fit the Spyder.  It wasn't hard and saved me over $200 Canadian over buying the one for her Spyder. 

[Bill Havins]

[snip].... dont [know] what they want till they see it. They know they want something but don't know what that looks like.....[snip]

I get your point, Robert.  I'm glad I have CAD available.  It helps bridge the gap between "want something" and "yeah, that's it" without spending a tremendous amount of time, materials, and money.

Bill

[hubcapsc]

[snip].... dont [know] what they want till they see it. They know they want something but don't know what that looks like.....[snip]

I get your point, Robert.  I'm glad I have CAD available.  It helps bridge the gap between "want something" and "yeah, that's it" without spending a tremendous amount of time, materials, and money.

Bill

On the other hand, you're not just some competent fabricator, you fabricate stuff for your bike
which is just like our bikes. If you were to make me a flat rack with a Utopia mount that
mounted where the grab rails had been, I would think"yeah, that's it"... one of the "jigs"
you'd need to do a good job on something like this would be the bike itself, and you've got it...

-Mike

[turboyoshi]

I have been seriously considering this for some time.  I have studied the headlight and its mountings (very minimal).  The adaptation can be done without too much trouble.  I would just need 5 people to want one and then I think I'd do it.

The Honda headlight fairing won't look just like mine; instead of the rounded headlight nacelle it will have a shape complementing the headlight.  it will tone down the "beak look" a fair bit.

Bill

Well ok I can't be the only one who wants this. You have some kind of sign up or wait list?

[MnM Valk 97]

I'm finally getting around to some winter projects on the '15 Valk, including installing the Utopia driver's backrest. Did you ever get any of those brackets fabricated?

[N8171S]

What we really need is someone that can fab up a trailer hitch for the 14/15 valkyrie.

[Bill Havins]

I decided I did not want to dedicate the next several years to fabricating "limited production runs."  And I don't really want to do "one-offs" because there is not much joy in having people argue about price and insist they can get it from Amazon for "...less than half that much."  It can be disappointing to watch people get so focused on a "good deal" that they forget all about craftsmanship and quality.

At present I have my efforts focused on my information display.  It will likely be the last thing I build for my bike.

Bill

[bgreat]

What we really need is someone that can fab up a trailer hitch for the 14/15 valkyrie.

Check out TH63 at http://www.classicind.com.au/Shop/

When I last checked, in stock and ready to ship.

Enjoy!
Bill

[Robert]

At present I have my efforts focused on my information display.  It will likely be the last thing I build for my bike.

Bill

So Bill keep me in mind for the display, but just remember I can get it off ebay much cheaper so.....

   

[Hot Rod]

I'd be in for one as well !

[snip]....
I loved the fairing you made and would have wanted one, but having to change out my headlight to make it work means it's a more involved and expensive project that I want to commit to. If you could make a fairing like that with the original headlight, I'd buy it.
[snip]....

I have been seriously considering this for some time.  I have studied the headlight and its mountings (very minimal).  The adaptation can be done without too much trouble.  I would just need 5 people to want one and then I think I'd do it.

The Honda headlight fairing won't look just like mine; instead of the rounded headlight nacelle it will have a shape complementing the headlight.  it will tone down the "beak look" a fair bit.

Bill

[Bobvalk]

Bill, do you have a drawing of the proposed fairing fix with original headlight. I hate the pointy side cover fairing design from Honda. I’d definitely be interested but I’m not sure til I see what’s possible.

[Bill Havins]

Bob,

I have not tried to CAD up that fairing design.  Judy's leg injuries/surgeries have had me pretty occupied since October 2017 (she's doing well, but, now that we know she breaks, will never get on the scooter again).  So I haven't paid much attention to the Valkyrie, or Valkyrie accessories.

Bill

[Crabballs]

Bob,

I have not tried to CAD up that fairing design.  Judy's leg injuries/surgeries have had me pretty occupied since October 2017 (she's doing well, but, now that we know she breaks, will never get on the scooter again).  So I haven't paid much attention to the Valkyrie, or Valkyrie accessories.

Bill

Sorry to hear she's still having these issues.  Best wishes to both of you and hopefully she will have a speedy recovery.

[pago cruiser]

Hey Bill,
Sorry to hear of Judy's woes. I thank you again for your hospitality on my purchase road trip a couple years ago.
Have not been on the site much myself.  50-60 hour weeks, and sometimes more, on salary. Too many bills to retire darn it...  When combined with a 1 hour commute each way, not a lot of time for much fun.  But at least I get to ride the Valk each day.  Best part of the day.

Rise's and my best wishes to you both,

Mitch