Remington Files chapter 11

[98valk]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/debt-laden-gun-maker-remington-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-2018-03-25

this is the key "and lawsuits tied to Sandy Hook school shooting."
this was the UN marxist democrats stated plan going back to the clinton administration. bankrupt gun/ammo companies with lawsuits.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

[Bighead]

Remington plant just a couple miles from my house running wide open ....dont worry.

[DirtyDan]

Dad just brought me 300 rounds of Remington 38 special

For what it’s worth

Dan

[Serk]

Maybe if their quality hadn't gone to hell people would still be buying their products... 

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Maybe if their quality hadn't gone to hell people would still be buying their products... 

Yeah, there's that, too.     

[Tony C.]

The primary reason is that they're not selling enough of their products. The Obama Administration was a boom time for gun sales because buyers thought their gun rights would be restricted. Thus the "get 'em while you can" attitude drove sales. Gun owners are less concerned that the Trump Administration will restrict gun rights. Sales of guns are way down compared to the Obama years.

[Reb]

The primary reason is that they're not selling enough of their products. The Obama Administration was a boom time for gun sales because buyers thought their gun rights would be restricted. Thus the "get 'em while you can" attitude drove sales. Gun owners are less concerned that the Trump Administration will restrict gun rights. Sales of guns are way down compared to the Obama years.

Exact reason why the NRA should start supporting more democrats in IMHO 

[Tony C.]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

[Serk]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

[baldo]

The primary reason is that they're not selling enough of their products. The Obama Administration was a boom time for gun sales because buyers thought their gun rights would be restricted. Thus the "get 'em while you can" attitude drove sales. Gun owners are less concerned that the Trump Administration will restrict gun rights. Sales of guns are way down compared to the Obama years.

For some reason my reply to this comment was deleted. A simple little GIF that stated "that's what you call ironic"

Was it's deletion for anything in particular, or just in general?

[Psychotic Bovine]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

Yeah, I had forgotten about this case.  Thanks, Serk.  I now know where I will be buying all of my ammo to feed my collection.  I made a small order of a thousand rounds of .45 from them, and they were very quick on shipping and a great price.  I guess I need to make a big purchase of 5.56 to feed my evil "Assault Rifle" model 15. "
On a related note, I think my next purchase will be a VR60 AR style 12 gauge.  Darn AR-15's aren't nearly powerful enough for my taste    I hate that they only have 5 round mags for the VR's, though.  Oh well, I am sure Magpul will produce some standard capacity ones if the VR gains popularity.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

I guess I missed something. Which lawsuit are you referring to ?

[Psychotic Bovine]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

I guess I missed something. Which lawsuit are you referring to ?

The Brady Bunch talked the parents of one of the victims of the Aurora shooting into suing Lucky Gunner.  Supposedly LG was the place the shooter purchased his ammo from.
Long story short, LG were forced to defend themselves and the judge threw the case out and ordered the parents to pay court costs.  They are now bankrupt. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

I guess I missed something. Which lawsuit are you referring to ?

The Brady Bunch talked the parents of one of the victims of the Aurora shooting into suing Lucky Gunner.  Supposedly LG was the place the shooter purchased his ammo from.
Long story short, LG were forced to defend themselves and the judge threw the case out and ordered the parents to pay court costs.  They are now bankrupt. 

I got that part, the way Serk worded his statement it seemed there was a new current suit involving Remington that caused their bankruptcy filing.

[Serk]

I got that part, the way Serk worded his statement it seemed there was a new current suit involving Remington that caused their bankruptcy filing.

There is. They're trying all kinds of sleazy maneuvers to cash in on tragedy and circumvent the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/26/us-gun-maker-remington-files-for-bankruptcy-protection/

"Remington was sued by victims’ families after the Sandy Hook tragedy. That lawsuit was dismissed because of broad immunity granted to the gun industry, but the Connecticut Supreme Court is weighing whether to reinstate it."

[Jess from VA]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

I guess I missed something. Which lawsuit are you referring to ?

The Brady Bunch talked the parents of one of the victims of the Aurora shooting into suing Lucky Gunner.  Supposedly LG was the place the shooter purchased his ammo from.
Long story short, LG were forced to defend themselves and the judge threw the case out and ordered the parents to pay court costs.  They are now bankrupt.  

I'm not doing more research on this case, but can tell you that attorney's fees are generally some 500-1000% more than courts costs.  Attorney fees bankrupt people and companies, not court costs.

When civil lawsuits are found to be without (any arguable) legal merit and thus frivolous, defendants can in some jurisdictions get an award of all costs of defending themselves, including attorney fees, court costs, expert witness fees, air travel, lodging, printing costs, mileage, and so on against the plaintiffs.  It is an excellent rule.  

Something greedy (and spiteful) plaintiffs often don't understand is that the run-of-the-mill plaintiff's contingent fee agreement (where the lawyer agrees to take a case for no money up front, only a percent of the winnings (after all costs) when they win (and nothing if they lose), is that this fee agreement does not say that if the plaintiffs are ordered to pay all the defendant's costs, the plaintiff's lawyer is in any way responsible for that kind of award.  Surprise!

It is about this time, however, when some newly bankrupt plaintiffs double down, and then hire attorney malpractice specialist lawyers and, using the same contingent fee agreement, sue the lawyer who took and pushed the frivolous lawsuit in the first place.  Suing people with frivolous lawsuits is generally viewed as legal malpractice (as it should be).

So what goes around, can sometimes come around.  (Greedy plaintiff's lawyers beget greedy plaintiffs, beget bankrupt plaintiffs, beget bankrupt plaintiff's lawyers.... but not often enough)

Many Castle Doctrines, in addition to spelling out rights to using lethal force in defense of your home, also provide immunity from civil wrongful death (or injury) lawsuits for using such force, justifiably.  This is way better than winning at trail.  

Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.  (Walter Scott)

PS: I hate to see Remington in financial trouble (one of our greatest historical gun makers) regardless of what got them there.  Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is a reorganization, not a liquidation, so hopefully they get a plan that lets them stay in business.  (many companies do)

[Psychotic Bovine]

The fiasco with the R51 9mm pistol did not help them in the least.

[Jess from VA]

The fiasco with the R51 9mm pistol did not help them in the least.

No it didn't.  But to their credit, as I understand it, they took all those pistols back, and fairly quickly put out a good working version of the same pistol.  

But yeah, that is no way to run a railroad, or gun manufacturer.  (Not like many other mfgrs haven't had similar problems.)

I really liked that pistol for it's small size and novel action and look (like I need anther 9MM), but after the first model failed, I decided I didn't want one after all (even if they now work).

[Psychotic Bovine]

I do like the design of the R51.  I might decide to go with that as my "car" gun.

[Jess from VA]

For me, a car gun can be full size (or nearly so).  I can hit better with full size.  And the car doesn't mind the weight.

For may years, I've had a 4" Smith model 10 M & P (K-frame, the original Military and Police .38) in my console.  And a speed loader or two.  Full steel can take +Ps forever with no problem.  

My car gun never substitutes for my carry.  I mean, it can (and has), but that's not the plan.

Not the crappy old pencil barrel model.

And I'm not out a small fortune if the car gets stolen, though that's pretty unlikely.  Back when I picked it up used, you could find these everywhere for $175 (even minty).

Today, if you want a new Classic model 10 (round butt only), MSRP is $739 (and you get the stupid lock hole).   https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-10      (And mine is a better revolver.  It certainly has no MIM parts.)

[big d]

Remington filed chapter 11 so they can restructure. Not close.

[Serk]

Since we're on car guns now, I usually keep a Kel-Tec PF9 in the center console of mine...

I chose that one because it's 9mm, which is about as low as I like to go if possible, mine is a reliable example, although not fun to shoot (Painful in fact) and, high priority for a car gun, it's extremely inexpensive, so if someone breaks into the car and steals it, at least I'm not out a ton of money...

[cookiedough]

Remington filed chapter 11 so they can restructure. Not close.

a lot of companies are doing that nowadays, seems to the norm vs. exception.

and no, cannot sue General Motors since the GOVERNMENT owns GM that is why the slogan Government Motors vs. General Motors after the bailout money the Govt. gave to GM

[Psychotic Bovine]

For me, I prefer my car gun to be able to hide in the center, covered cd holder under my stereo.  Currently in there is a 5 shot Ruger LCR in .357 magnum with speedloader.  I had considered getting a small 9mm that has a 10 or more round capacity, as the threats have evolved against drivers these days. And I would feel better with more rounds vs raw power.

[solo1]

I presently have an LCR 9mm in an unobtrusive sling pac on the right seat. Laser equipped. Being left handed it is faster for me to reload with the two extra full moon clips.

[¿spoom]

Yup. And the judicial system allowing frivolous lawsuits is also to blame. If someone runs me over with a Chevy pickup, can my family sue General Motors endlessly until they go bankrupt? It would be thrown out of court.

In 2005, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which shields gun manufacturers and sellers from civil claims brought by victims of gun violence. At that time, NRA leadership praised the law as the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.

Hopefully this frivolous lawsuit goes the same was as the one brought against Lucky Gunner, with the judge eventually finding for the store, and forcing the litigant that brought the suit to pay all legal fees, bankrupting the sleazy SOB's that started it.

Yeah, I had forgotten about this case.  Thanks, Serk.  I now know where I will be buying all of my ammo to feed my collection.  I made a small order of a thousand rounds of .45 from them, and they were very quick on shipping and a great price.  I guess I need to make a big purchase of 5.56 to feed my evil "Assault Rifle" model 15. "
On a related note, I think my next purchase will be a VR60 AR style 12 gauge.  Darn AR-15's aren't nearly powerful enough for my taste    I hate that they only have 5 round mags for the VR's, though.  Oh well, I am sure Magpul will produce some standard capacity ones if the VR gains popularity.

Akdal 1911w/10-rd mags?

[¿spoom]

For me, a car gun can be full size (or nearly so).  I can hit better with full size.  And the car doesn't mind the weight.

For may years, I've had a 4" Smith model 10 M & P (K-frame, the original Military and Police .38) in my console.  And a speed loader or two.  Full steel can take +Ps forever with no problem.  

My car gun never substitutes for my carry.  I mean, it can (and has), but that's not the plan.

Not the crappy old pencil barrel model.



And I'm not out a small fortune if the car gets stolen, though that's pretty unlikely.  Back when I picked it up used, you could find these everywhere for $175 (even minty).

Today, if you want a new Classic model 10 (round butt only), MSRP is $739 (and you get the stupid lock hole).   https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-10      (And mine is a better revolver.  It certainly has no MIM parts.)

Nooooooo! That's a semi-automatic assault weapon! Shoots every time you pull the trigger 

[Jess from VA]

Nooooooo! That's a semi-automatic assault weapon! Shoots every time you pull the trigger

Yeah, but only 6 times.  Watching the old movies, after 6 you are supposed to throw it at the bad guys.  That's hard on the bluing though.  

As a boy scout, I became fascinated with throwing knives like Daniel Boone (and got in trouble using some of the better ones from the kitchen).  I got pretty good at sticking them, but only at about 10-15 feet.  My dad the Marine took me aside and said.... Jess, only a damn fool throws his weapon away. Wow, that made a lot of sense.  He then showed me the fundamentals of knife fighting, where you never throw your weapon away.

Mark Twain was a smart (and funny) guy.   When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around.  But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.

[Serk]

As a boy scout, I became fascinated with throwing knives like Daniel Boone (and got in trouble using some of the better ones from the kitchen).

My dad had a beautiful Gurkha knife with an intricately carved lion's head on the pommel that he picked up on his travels in the area. Dumb young Serk tried to use it as a throwing knife and managed to smash the lion carving into oblivion in the process.

As punishment, he gave me the knife, which I have to this day, so I'd always have a reminder of what I'd done...

[Jess from VA]

A monster curved Kukri makes a terrible throwing weapon, as you discovered.



While far from a proper thrower, my knife of choice (and which I got very good with) was a 5-6 inch Old Hickory paring knife.  Years later, I bought a couple small throwers, and was never as good with them as my original trainer.



My boy scout leadership was also less than thrilled with this preoccupation.  We don't care how good you are, knock it off!

[Serk]

If I ever decided to pick it up again, I'm pretty sure I'd have a willing target at least... Kali has no fear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4-_Pr0Y2e8

[Jess from VA]

I can never watch that particular form of throwing.  Especially on a spinning wheel.  It is disturbing, and not entertaining (to me).

Just one gruesome mistake in ten thousand would be too many.

And Hillary would never agree to it anyway.

[Serk]

And Hillary would never agree to it anyway.

If Hillary was up there I doubt it'd be a mistake...