Big brother IS watching

[DirtyDan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/facial-recognition-used-catch-fugitive-094342186.html

Ohh it’s coming...........

Dan

[Jess from VA]

The new sunblock.

[Atl-Jerry]

It's pretty amazing that he was the only one picked out of 60K people......considering.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm all for more criminals being arrested. I see no invasions if this is done in public settings.

[..]

The new sunblock.

Nope. There are facial factors used to identify.

[..]

I'm all for more criminals being arrested. I see no invasions if this is done in public settings.

How governments get to impose upon the people is perfectly illustrated right there.

One drip at a time.

[Serk]

I'm all for more criminals being arrested. I see no invasions if this is done in public settings.

Due to the insane number of laws (Some contradictory) the average American commits three felonies a day. (And countless lesser crimes)

Do YOU want President Trump (Or even some lower level bureaucrat you cut off in traffic) to decide he doesn't like you anymore, and have the ability to find you easily in a crowd so you can be removed for those felonies you commit every day?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm all for more criminals being arrested. I see no invasions if this is done in public settings.

Due to the insane number of laws (Some contradictory) the average American commits three felonies a day. (And countless lesser crimes)

Do YOU want President Trump (Or even some lower level bureaucrat you cut off in traffic) to decide he doesn't like you anymore, and have the ability to find you easily in a crowd so you can be removed for those felonies you commit every day?

If I were to cut off Trump in traffic, I would be hailed as a hero.  But, seriously. The example you are using could easily be done with license plates. Just about anything can be used fraudulently. The potential of being able to catch child molesters, assaulters, etc. outweighs any potential fraudulent use.

[Gryphon Rider]

The new sunblock.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/32/4f/f1324f8e043c44398aa8bd9ee59a93fc.jpg

Nope. There are facial factors used to identify.

Would this be more effective?  I know it would be faster getting ready to go out in public, and almost as effective as sunblock.  :

[The emperor has no clothes]

The new sunblock.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/32/4f/f1324f8e043c44398aa8bd9ee59a93fc.jpg

Nope. There are facial factors used to identify.

Would this be more effective?  I know it would be faster getting ready to go out in public, and almost as effective as sunblock.  :

Kevin, I think if you added a clown nose you'd be set for any public setting.   

[Serk]

The example you are using could easily be done with license plates.

They're doing that too, and I have a problem with Big Brother having a database of everywhere I've been every day.

Power corrupts.

Absolute power.... well...

https://www.eff.org/pages/automated-license-plate-readers-alpr

[..]

The new sunblock.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/32/4f/f1324f8e043c44398aa8bd9ee59a93fc.jpg

Nope. There are facial factors used to identify.

Would this be more effective?  I know it would be faster getting ready to go out in public, and almost as effective as sunblock.  :

Some systems measure skin pore spacing and texture.

[Raider]

For most systems out there, large, dark sunglasses are enough to defeat the system.

[3fan4life]

The potential of being able to catch child molesters, assaulters, etc. outweighs any potential fraudulent use.

This is the exact logic that is used to erode our Constitutional Rights everyday.

Those that are working to take our freedoms away count on it.

The next time that you think that the "End justifies the Means", please remember that..............

 

These Good Men paid the ultimate price to defend the freedoms that you are so willing to give away.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The potential of being able to catch child molesters, assaulters, etc. outweighs any potential fraudulent use.

This is the exact logic that is used to erode our Constitutional Rights everyday.

Those that are working to take our freedoms away count on it.

The next time that you think that the "End justifies the Means", please remember that..............

 

These Good Men paid the ultimate price to defend the freedoms that you are so willing to give away.

BULLSHIT ! What freedoms would you be giving away ? It's in a public setting. You do know that if a person was to spot a criminal in a public setting they can and should turn them in. What is different with a program that searches widespread for the same thing ?

[Serk]

BULLSHIT ! What freedoms would you be giving away ? It's in a public setting. You do know that if a person was to spot a criminal in a public setting they can and should turn them in. What is different with a program that searches widespread for the same thing ?

You can't see the potential for abuse if a Trump, or Obama, or *Clutching my pearls* someone even worse (Dare I say it? Hillary?!!) having access to a database of where every single American was at every hour of every day?

[The emperor has no clothes]

BULLSHIT ! What freedoms would you be giving away ? It's in a public setting. You do know that if a person was to spot a criminal in a public setting they can and should turn them in. What is different with a program that searches widespread for the same thing ?

You can't see the potential for abuse if a Trump, or Obama, or *Clutching my pearls* someone even worse (Dare I say it? Hillary?!!) having access to a database of where every single American was at every hour of every day?

Yes there is a potential for abuse. There is a potential for abuse in just about everything.

[The emperor has no clothes]

BULLSHIT ! What freedoms would you be giving away ? It's in a public setting. You do know that if a person was to spot a criminal in a public setting they can and should turn them in. What is different with a program that searches widespread for the same thing ?

You can't see the potential for abuse if a Trump, or Obama, or *Clutching my pearls* someone even worse (Dare I say it? Hillary?!!) having access to a database of where every single American was at every hour of every day?

Would you not agree with even simple cell phone technology that there is a potential for abuse of tracking everybody ? Should we do away with them ? You guys seem to be missing the point. We want to lock up criminals, especially violent criminals. This is a tool that can help with that. I repeat, what freedoms would you be giving up ? I would be happy to see just one child molester caught with this. It could possibly catch many.

[Serk]

Would you not agree with even simple cell phone technology that there is a potential for abuse of tracking everybody ?

Of course there is, but that's individual companies, and something people intentionally purchase....

I trust individual companies a HELL of a lot more than I trust the government.

(Yes, I know... The government is in bed with most of those corporations now making them almost indistinguishable from each other. Go watch the classic movie Brazil for a taste of where we're going with all this. )

[The emperor has no clothes]

Would you not agree with even simple cell phone technology that there is a potential for abuse of tracking everybody ?

Of course there is, but that's individual companies, and something people intentionally purchase....

I trust individual companies a HELL of a lot more than I trust the government.

(Yes, I know... The government is in bed with most of those corporations now making them almost indistinguishable from each other. Go watch the classic movie Brazil for a taste of where we're going with all this. )

Can not govt. subpoena all of their info ?

[Serk]

Would you not agree with even simple cell phone technology that there is a potential for abuse of tracking everybody ?

Of course there is, but that's individual companies, and something people intentionally purchase....

I trust individual companies a HELL of a lot more than I trust the government.

(Yes, I know... The government is in bed with most of those corporations now making them almost indistinguishable from each other. Go watch the classic movie Brazil for a taste of where we're going with all this. )

Can not govt. subpoena all of their info ?

Subpoena'ing specific person or data points is one thing. General collection and database'ing of ALL info into big government databases is something VERY different altogether.

[3fan4life]

BULLSHIT ! What freedoms would you be giving away ? It's in a public setting. You do know that if a person was to spot a criminal in a public setting they can and should turn them in. What is different with a program that searches widespread for the same thing ?

You can't see the potential for abuse if a Trump, or Obama, or *Clutching my pearls* someone even worse (Dare I say it? Hillary?!!) having access to a database of where every single American was at every hour of every day?

Would you not agree with even simple cell phone technology that there is a potential for abuse of tracking everybody ? Should we do away with them ? You guys seem to be missing the point. We want to lock up criminals, especially violent criminals. This is a tool that can help with that. I repeat, what freedoms would you be giving up ? I would be happy to see just one child molester caught with this. It could possibly catch many.

Again that is what the Government wants.

The #1 most dangerous statement ever uttered is:

"There ought to be a law".

The second most dangerous statement is:

"We have to do it for the kids".

You seem to have a strong tendency to respond from a position that originates from emotions rather than from logic and reason.

I much prefer making decisions and taking stances that are based in the latter.


I don't want to see criminals go free anymore that you do.

But, if the police and our justice system is allowed to operate outside of Constitutional rules then we all lose.

You admit that this practice has the potential for abuse, that alone should be enough to understand that it isn't wise to condone it.  

If the police were using this technology in conjunction with a search warrant, looking for a specific individual.

I would probably be OK with it, assuming that they were limited to only acting upon the conditions specified by the warrant.

I have read George Orwell's 1984 and found it to be the scariest novel ever written.  



Call BS if you want:

Personally, I hold the sacrifices that these men made.......

 

Second ONLY to the one made by Jesus Christ on the Cross.

I'm not inclined to give away ANY of the freedoms that they gave their lives for.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I will ask you again 3fan. Which freedoms and rights would you be giving up ?


I called BS on you because you accused me of giving up freedoms that people died for. Essentially saying I didn't care about their sacrifice . BULLSHIT !

[Crackerborn]

In a related topic, I hate traffic cameras.

[Jess from VA]

In a related topic, I hate traffic cameras.

Me too.  They're not for safety, they're for revenue.  And it is well documented the private companies that set them up often shorten yellow lights to increase revenue (and decrease safety).  Traffic engineers long ago discovered dangerous intersections can be made much safer with longer yellows. 

Think about the combined levels of G (and private) surveillance on all citizens.  NSA collects every keystroke (and phone call?), much of the entire digital universe.  Cameras all over every city.  Traffic cameras. Speed cameras.  The G wants the codes to get in all phones.  Face recognition.  License plate collection.  And on and on.  At what expense?  To what end?

Is it public safety?  Or is it public control?

The only way to ever reign this (and all the other extravagance) in is to reduce G funding to the point they only have just enough money to provide the minimum services they should be providing, and nothing more.  I suppose that is simply impossible from here on out if the only power we the people have is a vote every few years. 

Which is reminiscent of standing on the high side of a sailboat pissing into the wind.

Somewhere along the line, big G stopped serving the people, and only serves itself.

Only small local (poor) G's seem to be able to still operate as all G should function.

[..]

In a related topic, I hate traffic cameras.

Me too.  They're not for safety, they're for revenue.  And it is well documented the private companies that set them up often shorten yellow lights to increase revenue (and decrease safety).  Traffic engineers long ago discovered dangerous intersections can be made much safer with longer yellows. 

Yep they had to remove them a couple of years ago here in Roswell.

How the city and the local liberal press spun the information

https://www.ajc.com/news/roswell-looks-past-red-light-cameras/qNoOc4Vu47vkABXcgAIn9H/

[DirtyDan]

Speaking of traffic cameras. The ones in Colorado don’t work very well

Never got a nastygram 

Dan

[Oss]

way back in the day, I predicted that ez pass would get men (and women) in trouble in divorce court and that was indeed the case

Wife atty subpoena ezpass records to prove  you lied about where you were, phone records to show who you talked to

It is not just government, its all of us as well

If you dont want to be on the web, get off it....totally

If you want to effect solutions, keep a presence on it but control what you post and with what computer  I maintain an old 386 totally off line running 3.1dos and word for dos.  Occasionally I need to do something I havent done in decades and when I recall the file I made I access that dinosaur hit esc T S a: name and save to hard floppy and read it on the newer machine. You can read old dos but cant write to it (why would you want to)  That 386 runs maybe an hour or 3 a year. May last forever except for the fact I still like to play chuck yeagers air combat on the joystick

[bagelboy]

They may be tracking us, that's true, but how many people freely give up their privacy with Facebook, Credit Cards, Cell Phones, etc. it's bad enough that we are watched more than we realize, however, people in general give up privacy way to free these days!

[Robert]

1 person in 60k got locked up because of facial recognition technology. gee I feel safer already  I wonder if he was ticketed for trespassing or not paying his parking tickets and arrested. Definitively worth giving up my privacy for along with, plate scanners, smart meters,cell phone locating and stingrays.

Unfortunately some cannot see a few years out and visualize a problem, search for the internet of things.

Oss did you find out what those towers at the tunnels are?

[The emperor has no clothes]

1 person in 60k got locked up because of facial recognition technology. gee I feel safer already  I wonder if he was ticketed for trespassing or not paying his parking tickets and arrested. Definitively worth giving up my privacy for along with, plate scanners, smart meters,cell phone locating and stingrays.

Unfortunately some cannot see a few years out and visualize a problem, search for the internet of things.

Oss did you find out what those towers at the tunnels are?

You moved to Zangshu, China ? 

[Alberta Patriot]

BULLSHIT ! What freedoms would you be giving away ? It's in a public setting. You do know that if a person was to spot a criminal in a public setting they can and should turn them in. What is different with a program that searches widespread for the same thing ?

You can't see the potential for abuse if a Trump, or Obama, or *Clutching my pearls* someone even worse (Dare I say it? Hillary?!!) having access to a database of where every single American was at every hour of every day?

They already do thanks in large part to Facebook and Google who you defended in the Zuckerberg Thread "This is their Playground"....Silicon Valley has already demonstrated they will do anything for the almighty buck eg. Google who is providing China with billions in technical assistance that will ultimately hurt Western Interests... so What is preventing them from colluding with and promoting the Political Party who's Dogma that they align with by being the digital thought and word police...and we all know that it has already happened with the blatant manipulation of algorithms that goes to bat for one side over another. Is that what the New Version of Democracy will look like? When I see something that even comes close to a Level Digital "Playground" I might relax on my thoughts a bit.

[Serk]

They already do thanks in large part to Facebook and Google who you defended in the Zuckerberg Thread "This is their Playground".

And as I tried to put forth in the other thread, there are a lot of things that are okay for private enterprise to do that are NOT okay for government to do.

(And vice versa)

The two types of entities are not, and should not be, on equal footing.

[Psychotic Bovine]

I will ask you again 3fan. Which freedoms and rights would you be giving up ?


I called BS on you because you accused me of giving up freedoms that people died for. Essentially saying I didn't care about their sacrifice . BULLSHIT !

I will chime in.  How about the freedom to go about my business without the POSSIBILITY of someone tracking everywhere I have been?
Ok, a hypothetical:  you just happen to follow a route that leads you into a place where a murder is going to occur.  Let's say it's a park, and you drop off the scope (so to speak) because you went into a place where there were no cameras.  Now, the killer murders someone at that same spot, 30 minutes later and time of death cannot be accurately determined.  The killer showed up without being seen by any cameras, same as the victim (or he put the victim there without being seen).  You are now suspect numero uno.  Sound fun?
So, how about this?  10 years from now, the people realize that these cameras are working very good, let's put them in people's homes.  I mean, if you have nothing to hide, and since it's just some nameless bureaucrat looking at the videos, what "privacy" have you lost?  I mean, it's for the common good, and very likely will have more positives than negatives.  How would that affect you?  
I'm not ready for this "brave new world".

[Alberta Patriot]

They already do thanks in large part to Facebook and Google who you defended in the Zuckerberg Thread "This is their Playground".

And as I tried to put forth in the other thread, there are a lot of things that are okay for private enterprise to do that are NOT okay for government to do.

(And vice versa)

The two types of entities are not, and should not be, on equal footing.

I still don't see an actual response to the very core of my most recent post.

[Serk]

I still don't see an actual response to the very core of my most recent post.

I'm gonna assume this is the very core of your most recent post?

so What is preventing them from colluding with and promoting the Political Party who's Dogma that they align with by being the digital thought and word police..

If so my actual response is nothing, and nothing should be there to prevent them from it. They're private companies. Private companies have every right to promote whatever political ideology that want to promote.

If you don't like the politics they promote, don't use their services, there are alternative to all of these. And if enough folks went to the alternatives, the current big players would change their tune. But I absolutely do NOT want government getting it's fingers into this!

Further note - Just because I'll defend the legality of a company's actions doesn't mean I agree with their actions or defend the morality of it. There's a distinction there that has to be made.

[Alberta Patriot]

I still don't see an actual response to the very core of my most recent post.

I'm gonna assume this is the very core of your most recent post?

so What is preventing them from colluding with and promoting the Political Party who's Dogma that they align with by being the digital thought and word police..

If so my actual response is nothing, and nothing should be there to prevent them from it. They're private companies. Private companies have every right to promote whatever political ideology that want to promote.

If you don't like the politics they promote, don't use their services, there are alternative to all of these. And if enough folks went to the alternatives, the current big players would change their tune. But I absolutely do NOT want government getting it's fingers into this!

Further note - Just because I'll defend the legality of a company's actions doesn't mean I agree with their actions or defend the morality of it. There's a distinction there that has to be made.

A comment from you..."You can't see the potential for abuse if a Trump, or Obama, or *Clutching my pearls* someone even worse (Dare I say it? Hillary?!!) having access to a database of where every single American was at every hour of every day?"....the same can be said about Silicon Valley who have become more powerful than many governments because of the information that they have gathered, sometimes by shady and possibly unlawful means...Tinpot Dictators don't have the power of these Tech Giants with their historic virtual monopoly on information gathering and I don't use the word monopoly lightly.

[Alberta Patriot]

Don't get me wrong...government overreach has been a massive problem ever since humans gathered in like minded groups and decided to appoint some of them with extra powers to organize their little tribe for the "good". Look at the European Union...the very Poster Child of Government Overreach, "Dictating" to what used to be Sovereign Nations...and now because of that overreach there is a groundswell of push back by many countries who are voting out the "Dictators" that side with the EU.
I see something more like a "Summit of all Interested Parties"-Tech Giants and Congress...Hashing out an equitable middle ground...whatever the heck that might look like, with some serious input from the voting population at large.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I will ask you again 3fan. Which freedoms and rights would you be giving up ?


I called BS on you because you accused me of giving up freedoms that people died for. Essentially saying I didn't care about their sacrifice . BULLSHIT !

I will chime in.  How about the freedom to go about my business without the POSSIBILITY of someone tracking everywhere I have been?
Ok, a hypothetical:  you just happen to follow a route that leads you into a place where a murder is going to occur.  Let's say it's a park, and you drop off the scope (so to speak) because you went into a place where there were no cameras.  Now, the killer murders someone at that same spot, 30 minutes later and time of death cannot be accurately determined.  The killer showed up without being seen by any cameras, same as the victim (or he put the victim there without being seen).  You are now suspect numero uno.  Sound fun?
So, how about this?  10 years from now, the people realize that these cameras are working very good, let's put them in people's homes.  I mean, if you have nothing to hide, and since it's just some nameless bureaucrat looking at the videos, what "privacy" have you lost?  I mean, it's for the common good, and very likely will have more positives than negatives.  How would that affect you?  
I'm not ready for this "brave new world".

There are many fallacies with your examples. I will address a couple of them. We have a right to privacy in our home, we have no such right in a public setting. As an example if you will remember with the Boston Bombers, they were identified by their pics in a public setting. Would you wish to have those cameras taken down ? As to your example of your every move being tracked. For one, they are looking for criminals . They are not interested in you, unless you are a criminal. When a person is arrested and booked into jail a picture and fingerprints are taken. Should we do away with that because it’s infringing on their “freedom” ? This new technology matches criminals pics up. Were it to come to the U.S. it would be easy enough to implement safeguards to prevent fraudulent use of it.

[Psychotic Bovine]

I will ask you again 3fan. Which freedoms and rights would you be giving up ?


I called BS on you because you accused me of giving up freedoms that people died for. Essentially saying I didn't care about their sacrifice . BULLSHIT !

I will chime in.  How about the freedom to go about my business without the POSSIBILITY of someone tracking everywhere I have been?
Ok, a hypothetical:  you just happen to follow a route that leads you into a place where a murder is going to occur.  Let's say it's a park, and you drop off the scope (so to speak) because you went into a place where there were no cameras.  Now, the killer murders someone at that same spot, 30 minutes later and time of death cannot be accurately determined.  The killer showed up without being seen by any cameras, same as the victim (or he put the victim there without being seen).  You are now suspect numero uno.  Sound fun?
So, how about this?  10 years from now, the people realize that these cameras are working very good, let's put them in people's homes.  I mean, if you have nothing to hide, and since it's just some nameless bureaucrat looking at the videos, what "privacy" have you lost?  I mean, it's for the common good, and very likely will have more positives than negatives.  How would that affect you?  
I'm not ready for this "brave new world".

There are many fallacies with your examples. I will address a couple of them. We have a right to privacy in our home, we have no such right in a public setting. As an example if you will remember with the Boston Bombers, they were identified by their pics in a public setting. Would you wish to have those cameras taken down ? As to your example of your every move being tracked. For one, they are looking for criminals . They are not interested in you, unless you are a criminal. When a person is arrested and booked into jail a picture and fingerprints are taken. Should we do away with that because it’s infringing on their “freedom” ? This new one technology matches criminals pics up. Were it to come to the U.S. it would be easy enough to implement safeguards to prevent fraudulent use of it.

You have good points, but I still stand by my comments. 
I don't trust the government.   You give them an inch (tracking criminals by facial recognition), they will take a mile (tracking all citizens).  The NSA and their interception of so many emails and phone calls reinforced that distrust.  I still, more or less, believe in the basic goodness of man.  I don't believe in the basic goodness of men.  It's not a partisan thing, I don't trust groups in general. 
I cannot think of too many pieces of tech that were invented with good intentions that weren't then perverted for nefarious uses.
Would you be in favor of the collecting of DNA from everyone so that we can live in a better world?  I mean, if one doesn't do anything wrong, one has nothing to fear.