? for those experienced driving 4x4s on slippery highways

[Gryphon Rider]

I bought my first 4x4 truck last month, a 2002 Dakota, and I'm wondering about driving on icy/snowy highways.  I know that on a solid surface it's inadvisable to drive in 4WD because of the difference in distance the front wheels vs. the rear wheels travel around a corner, causing either the front wheels to slightly drag, or the rear wheels to slightly spin, depending on the radius of the corner and fore/aft weight distribution.  In your experience, in icy/snowy conditions, does 4WD add to or reduce stability in corners, compared to 2WD?

[Chrisj CMA]

I bought my first 4x4 truck last month, a 2002 Dakota, and I'm wondering about driving on icy/snowy highways.  I know that on a solid surface it's inadvisable to drive in 4WD because of the difference in distance the front wheels vs. the rear wheels travel around a corner, causing either the front wheels to slightly drag, or the rear wheels to slightly spin, depending on the radius of the corner and fore/aft weight distribution.  In your experience, in icy/snowy conditions, does 4WD add to or reduce stability in corners, compared to 2WD?

I think different 4wd set ups behave differently.  For instance, some cars are all wheel drive all the time.  Your owners manual should answer basic questions and driving experience should take care of the rest.

[Gavin_Sons]

I never drive in 4WD unless it is deep snow on the roads.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If I remember correctly, you got a Dakota 4x4 ? They are regular 4 wheel drive. Or at least the were. You are fine with it in 4 wheel drive as long as it’s not dry pavement. And yes, it definitely adds to stability. It won’t help in braking though.

Uh....I reread your post. I guess I remembered correctly.

[Bigwolf]

Gryphon Rider,

I grew up in northern WV and used to race a jeep off road.

My experience is this: Expect less stability in handling.  Sometimes you will have more but you cannot depend on that.

There are basically 3 classes of so called 4 wheel drive.
1) 4 wheel drive that must be shifted (locked) in or out - This is probably the most rugged for off road purposes.  And also the most likely to not steer when you turn the steering wheel.  These do not allow for a difference in distance between the front and rear wheels therefor causing the front wheels to slide some of the time when you try to steer.  When they do, the vehicle will not turn as you wish.  It is possible to have one front wheel lose traction and one rear wheel lose traction at the same time robbing power from the other 2 wheels (usually only in hard of road) causing you to be stuck.  Differential lockers or limited slip differentials will help to overcome this.  Warning: If you put such a differential in the front axle,  the steering capability on slick road will drop to almost non existent and you will replace steering and suspension components much more often.

2) 4 wheel drive that is shifted manually ( possibly by button on dash) into or out of 4 wheel drive and can also be shifted to full time or automatic 4 wheel drive.  This is the same as the above except that it has a differential gear setup between the front and the rear axle that is used only when automatic 4 wheel drive is selected.  This helps but will not completely overcome the the possibility of under-steer.  Gears have friction factors and sometimes, when the road is slick, that is enough to cause the front wheels to slide rather than steer.

3) All wheel drive - All wheels are powered all the time.  The drive train is built to absorb differences in distances.  The down side to this is that it is possible, in serious off road conditions, to have one wheel lose traction and rob the other 3 wheels of their forward power.  Newer all wheel drives have electronic capabilities working to overcome this.

Newer 4 wheel drive vehicles also have "stability controls" that are supposed to stop skids and "traction controls" that are supposed to help keep you from getting stuck.  If you have a difficult maneuver to make or a tricky driving situation, these otherwise good controls will leave you walking.

Bottom line is, I run my suburban in 2 wheel drive on the highway unless I have to have 4 wheel to go and then I keep my speed very slow in case I have to coax it to turn.  I have often, even in 2 wheel drive cars, driven around 4 wheel drives in the ditch and or waiting for plow and salt truck.  The most important item is always the nut on the steering wheel.

Bigwolf

[Beardo]

I bought my first 4x4 truck last month, a 2002 Dakota, and I'm wondering about driving on icy/snowy highways.  I know that on a solid surface it's inadvisable to drive in 4WD because of the difference in distance the front wheels vs. the rear wheels travel around a corner, causing either the front wheels to slightly drag, or the rear wheels to slightly spin, depending on the radius of the corner and fore/aft weight distribution.  In your experience, in icy/snowy conditions, does 4WD add to or reduce stability in corners, compared to 2WD?

Had the exact same truck, but an 04. It was pretty crappy in RWD on snow and ice but phenomenal in 4x4. Pulled out many new trucks with it.

If snow covered or icy, leave it in 4x4. If you have to make a tight turn, you might have to flip it into rwd...it doesn’t turn well in 4x4 when slippery, it pushes/understeers.   Can leave it in 4x4 on the highway if there are occasional icy patches, just turn it off if you have to turn on dry pavement. I usually left it in 2wd in the city, just put it in 4 at intersections or when it was needed.

[..]

Don't forget that just because you are in 4x drive it doesn't make you invincible.

Once the mass of the vehicle loses traction that's a lot of weight possibly taking you in a direction you don't want to go.

So temper your gas pedal enthusiasm.

[Gavin_Sons]

I have had my new truck (2017 tundra SR5 with crewmax cab) for 18 months and have not ever had it in 4X4. I should probably go try it out. Normally use it during deer season quite often but since it is new I park just off the paved road and walk the extra mile and a half.

[Gryphon Rider]

Thanks for the replies, All.  Just so everyone knows (except Beardo, who already knows), this truck has a selector switch on the dash that lets me choose 2WD, 4HI, 4LO, and N for being towed (see below), and the transfer case does not have a differential.  The electronics do not let the switch work unless the conditions are right for the new position of the switch, e.g. you can turn it to 4LO, but it won't actually go into 4LO unless your speed is low enough and the drivetrain is not being powered.  Thanks especially to Beardo for sharing his experience with this particular model of truck.  So far I am really enjoying driving it, especially with the V6 and 5-speed; I had to fill up every week driving every day with my old truck, but can go two weeks with this one, and get probably 50-70% better mileage on the highway.  I'm still fixing the little things that go with the territory of purchasing a 16-year-old vehicle.

[Valker]

I consider 4 wheel drive as my way to get out of where I got stuck in 2 wheel drive.

[sheets]

On paved roads in snow and ice, 4x4 works well , assuming the snow is not more than a couple/few inches deep and you have the appropriate tire - on level and uphill grades. I've seen many 4x4 rigs spun out in the snow simply because the drivers think they are invincible. Downhill grades and slopes . . . gravity and inertia rule the road.

[Beardo]

Thanks for the replies, All.  Just so everyone knows (except Beardo, who already knows), this truck has a selector switch on the dash that lets me choose 2WD, 4HI, 4LO, and N for being towed (see below), and the transfer case does not have a differential.  The electronics do not let the switch work unless the conditions are right for the new position of the switch, e.g. you can turn it to 4LO, but it won't actually go into 4LO unless your speed is low enough and the drivetrain is not being powered.  Thanks especially to Beardo for sharing his experience with this particular model of truck.  So far I am really enjoying driving it, especially with the V6 and 5-speed; I had to fill up every week driving every day with my old truck, but can go two weeks with this one, and get probably 50-70% better mileage on the highway.  I'm still fixing the little things that go with the territory of purchasing a 16-year-old vehicle.

Was probably one of my favourite vehicles ever. I had the V8 quad cab. Powerful enough to pull a quad trailer with 4 quads but small enough to be maneuverable in the bush or the city.  Bit hard on gas but for the amount of miles I put on in a year, don’t really care. Perfect sized truck. If you could still buy them today, I’d get another in a heartbeat.

[MarkT]

I've had a lot of different 4X4's since '79 all of them true 4WD with low range, selectable 4low/high, stick shift. Some more capable than others. One a Bronco II - true off road capable with short wheelbase, good ground clearance and entrance/exit angles, bash plates, posi, lockable hubs. Great truck with my hang glider rack to access the top of some rugged mountain launch sites here in CO.  Did some fun rock crawling in very rough offroad trails here in Colorado - but not the kind of crawling of the purpose-built tube frame unlimited competition buggies of course. Stayed off boulders more than 2 ft high. Still I went places the uninitiated called me crazy when I'd take them on 1870's mountain mining trails.  No, I just know the truck and my capability.  In general when the road gets slippery I put it in 4wd and the ones I had become much more capable than 2wd.  All of them are manual tranny's - that statement does not apply to auto tranny 4X4's. Use engine braking, practice skids, power sliding etc. I have a lot of experience driving them in bad conditions, having run a snowplow company in WI during the hundred-year winter of '79 I think it was.  I did a lot of fun driving, 4 wheel drifting, high speed running in fairly deep snow. One of my best handling 4-by's was an IH ScoutII Terra pickup.

If you are running an automatic, or high-tech 4x4 with traction control - well that's not the same as what I'm talking about.  I just laugh at the female news casters who want to give advice on how to drive 4X4's in the snow, on the nightly news.  They are parroting what they've been told to say - none have offroad, racing, or experience with true 4-bys but at best a crossover minivan.  Yeah, they are right, that type of vehicle and driver is little better off with 4wd in the slippery.  But don't tell ME I don't know how to drive my 4X4 in the snow.  Yes I can stop faster with 4WD using engine braking and not losing control.  But even so I follow the rule - rather be going slower and wishing it was faster than vise-versa.  Yep anybody can get in trouble with too much speed in the slippery even those very experienced at driving their 4WD.

[oldsmokey]

2WD reduces unnecessary wear if traveling for a distance and may keep you from getting too rambunctious, stopping is not always that much better (how many times have you seen the 4wd SUV in the ditch just because they can go). If conditions worsen or traction starts to break, throttle off, shift on the fly to lock axle in and resume throttle.

[Pete]

Keep in mind that in a standard 4 wheel drive if 1 front wheel and 1 rear wheel are slipping you may be stuck. Usually right rear and left front.

If you have traction lock in the rear now 3 wheels need to lose traction to get stuck 2 rear and 1 front.

With traction lock rear and limited slip front you now have a real 4 wheel drive and 4 wheels spinning means stuck.

The limited slip front can be a little tricky, as the front wheels gain and lose traction the vehicle may dart to one side or the other.

The traction lock in the rear and the limited slip in the front, in my opinion is the best true 4 wheel drive. 

Trying to pull a jeep out of a mud pit I have dug four holes with 4 wheels when the jeep would not move, moved over and dug 4 more. That is true four wheel drive.

[Oldfishguy]

We will always have all wheel drive or constant 4 wheel drive vehicles living in Minnesota.  They are are slightly more stable in corners in the snow, but not much.  Of course the advent of front wheel drive vs. rear wheel dove vehicles was the major improvement in control for winter driving. Four wheel drive is for not getting stuck.  Behind the truck below is a trailer with a good ton of landscape field stones.

I drive a full time four wheel drive, a 1997 Range Rover.  The old story is :” When one has an old Rover, one of your hobbies has to be fixing it.”  True.  The English lads on the Rover forum are most helpful though.

[cookiedough]

I have had my new truck (2017 tundra SR5 with crewmax cab) for 18 months and have not ever had it in 4X4. I should probably go try it out. Normally use it during deer season quite often but since it is new I park just off the paved road and walk the extra mile and a half.

Just remember you cannot shift into 4wd 60mph and over, will not work with the Tundra.  biggest drawback to my tundra is the nannies made for people who do not know how to drive cut in way too quickly and cut power way too much in 2wd on slippery pavement to the point the truck will not move.  I want to spin tires to get moving on 1cm of snow,  so disabling the nannies is best for people who know how to drive.  All this electronic garbage is supposedly safer but in my mind is not all it is cracked up to be a lot of the time.

Use 4wd around corners as long as snowy and slippery is best vs. 2wd,  except if totally dry pavement and especially a big no-no if dry pavement and super slow speed.  My tundra is almost impossible in 4wd to turn at very slow speeds on dry pavement and is not recommended.  

One thing I liked about my past chevy silverados is auto 4wd which stays in 2wd and automatically almost instantly goes into 4wd as needed, worked well.  

[Robert]

If you put it in 4 wheel and cannot get it out of 4 wheel on dry pavement just go on some dirt and and it will come out. Also listen to the shifting when you put it in 2 or 4 wheel its done by a electric motor and they go bad and an indication is they start to make noise when shifting ranges. Tire wear is increased also in 4wheel if the pavement gets to dry.

[Pete]

If you put it in 4 wheel and cannot get it out of 4 wheel on dry pavement just go on some dirt and and it will come out.

Backing up also will help if getting it out of 4 wheel drive is hard to do. If you have manual hubs turn them to free (if you can) will help get it out of 4 wheel drive.

[Gavin_Sons]

I have had my new truck (2017 tundra SR5 with crewmax cab) for 18 months and have not ever had it in 4X4. I should probably go try it out. Normally use it during deer season quite often but since it is new I park just off the paved road and walk the extra mile and a half.

Just remember you cannot shift into 4wd 60mph and over, will not work with the Tundra.  biggest drawback to my tundra is the nannies made for people who do not know how to drive cut in way too quickly and cut power way too much in 2wd on slippery pavement to the point the truck will not move.  I want to spin tires to get moving on 1cm of snow,  so disabling the nannies is best for people who know how to drive.  All this electronic garbage is supposedly safer but in my mind is not all it is cracked up to be a lot of the time.

Use 4wd around corners as long as snowy and slippery is best vs. 2wd,  except if totally dry pavement and especially a big no-no if dry pavement and super slow speed.  My tundra is almost impossible in 4wd to turn at very slow speeds on dry pavement and is not recommended.  

One thing I liked about my past chevy silverados is auto 4wd which stays in 2wd and automatically almost instantly goes into 4wd as needed, worked well.  

I would never think about shifting into 4wd at speed. I sed 4wd on my 05 Tundra a lot in it's later years. I would shift it int 4wd at a slow roll. Once I forgot to disengage the 4wd and did it at 55 on the highway and it clunked real hard.

[Westernbiker]

One thing a 4 wheel drive will do, is get you far more stuck, than a 2 wheel drive! 

[cookiedough]

One thing a 4 wheel drive will do, is get you far more stuck, than a 2 wheel drive! 

Yep, been there, done that ONLY ONCE!  NEVER EVER again taking 3-4 hours inch by inch to get out of a DEEP roadside ditch in the middle of nowhere before cell phones were invented to call a tow truck.  Got er dun though but was painful..  4wd is great until you get stuck in 4wd...   

[0leman]

Spent 40 plus years  driving a 4X4's in all sorts of conditions while working plus and additional 10 years of driving after retiring.  Snow, rain, mud, and dry roads.  I agree with all, in that you stay in 2WD till you get stuck, then use 4WD to get out. 

That said my new RAM truck (2015) has a feature none of my previous trucks had.   When needed it will go into 4WD. It is a selection on the control panel.  Works great when driving in snowpack/icy roads.  Have used it the last three winters driving weekly over the Cascade Mtn here in OR. 

Under normal winter driving conditions a good front wheel vehicle will preform well on snowpack/icy roads if it is equipped with good tires.  I prefer tires that have been sipped as those with studs.  The work nearly as good as studded tires and don't tear up the roads.