Women really are the fairer sex

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/04/18/nerves-of-steel-she-calmly-landed-the-southwest-flight-and-broke-barriers-as-a-fighter-pilot/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0ed7eab2f79c

[Serk]

This woman is an incredible pilot with awesome ability to maintain calm in an emergency.

Have a listen to the radio communications from her and her crew to ATC during this incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVTdvcghHc

Oh yeah, and she's a Texan...

After getting the plane down, she went back and greeted every single passenger who's lives she'd just saved.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/04/tammie-jo-shults-pilot-southwest-flight-1380-engine-hero/

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh yeah, and she's a Texan...

Considering her heroism, I won’t hold that against her.  But she really is extraordinarily.

[Jess from VA]

The truth is most pilots are well recognized as some of the finest cool customers under incredible stress and pressure, and I believe it is mostly about how they are trained (and winnowed out in training). Checklists, and procedures, and always staying ahead of the extremely fast power curve in modern aircraft.  There are plenty of examples. (Like Sully Sullenberger the airline captain celebrated for the January 2009 water landing of US Airways Flight 1549 on the Hudson River off Manhattan)

I did a B1-B Lancer accident investigation where an inboard engine lost a first stage jet fan blade retaining ring (at tremendous RPMs), the fan blades flew out with sufficient force and power to sever monster titanium engine mounts, (and the gas lines) and the side of the aircraft, and that inboard jet engine departed the plane (to later burn up a big cornfield).  Given the plane design, with the pilots up in the long nose, and wings swept back, they could not see a fire, but got one on instruments, and shut off the fuel to it, and hit extinguishers for the fire.  The big loss of power and weight caused the pilot to have to use a lot of stick and rudder to maintain level, controlled flight. (auto pilot couldn't do it)

They quickly found a remote alternate airfield and dropped like a stone and set it down safely, then got out fast and ran away worrying about more fire (and explosions) and only then discovered to their amazement that they had lost a complete engine.  Checklists and training.

I got to visit Pueblo CO where it set down. (and Tinker AFB OK where they lay out all the parts that fell off) (and McConnell AFB KS where it was stationed for the maintenance history)

A big honkin engine.




4 of them


No engine can be observed from up front at all.


This was one of two nearly identical accidents months apart, and the fault was substandard  metallurgy in the fan blade retaining rings by General Electric (not a design flaw, a bad part flaw), and no action was ever taken against GE.  The B1-B was still in development and production and the military industrial complex and billion dollar contracts was too important to screw up.  All B1's were grounded, they all got new retaining rings, and that was that.

The B1 stranded at Pueblo could not be fixed (and certainly no new engine added) with no facility of any kind locally, so they fixed the hole in the plane with a jury rigged fairing over the missing engine.  They then sought active duty pilot volunteers, and didn't get any.  So a Rockwell test pilot hopped in and took off and flew it to the closest repair facility on three engines.

I still have a copy of the official Aircraft Accident Report the Command Pilot (Lt Col) and I (Capt) put together from 1990 in my filing cabinet (and no it is not classified).

I had recommended in my legal review the USAF seek some form of recompense or offset from GE and/or Rockwell for costs associated with these (non lethal) accidents and fleet-wide stand down, and was told they wished I hadn't put that in the report.  And reminded that Capt's were for the most part to be seen and not heard (something I had been told before).  

[Willow]

She's strong, she's brave, and she's very good at what she does.  In contrast to the title of the thread, though, her strength and success has not so much to do with her feminine characteristics, but that she carries certain characteristics more often present in males than in females.

Women are indeed the fairer sex. One might do well to research the definition of the term especially as used in this phrase.  It doesn't apply to this story.

Captain Shults is just what the situation called for and she did an excellent job of putting that craft on the ground to the benefit of 148 passengers depending upon her.  She's a great pilot and a very good person.

[John Schmidt]

Wonderful job by a lady that kept her cool under duress. As for the fairer sex, I don't feel it applies in this situation. However, she is a strong and talented woman indeed. 

[scooperhsd]

Having been through Navy NFO training - yes - the attrition rate is very high (only 30% complete). This is a fine example of how it is supposed to work with ATC and the aircrew. I don't think it could have gone any better given the circumstances of the aircraft.

Jess - you did what you thought was right. As a JAG investigating , you were just making a recomendation, it's up to command / the Air Force to decide on the approriate action.

[The emperor has no clothes]

She's strong, she's brave, and she's very good at what she does.  In contrast to the title of the thread, though, her strength and success has not so much to do with her feminine characteristics, but that she carries certain characteristics more often present in males than in females.

Women are indeed the fairer sex. One might do well to research the definition of the term especially as used in this phrase.  It doesn't apply to this story.

Captain Shults is just what the situation called for and she did an excellent job of putting that craft on the ground to the benefit of 148 passengers depending upon her.  She's a great pilot and a very good person.

Tough crowd  ??? I was trying to be polite, witty, and respectful with the title. Evidently I was none. I didn't realize it would be scrutinized. I will strive to be more on target in the future. She is a very good pilot under pressure for sure. 

[old2soon]

One of the First Females to fly the F/A 18 Super Hornet. On the down wind leg before a trap on an aircraft carrier you look at that postage stamp and say w t f more than once.  Naval Piltos-this includes Marines-working from a carrier have an extremely difficult job. Kudos to this Fine Example of Naval Aviation.  Can't help but wonder cool as she is under pressure if she ever was a Test Pilot? Tween her Naval Air training and the Training at Southwest she was More Than Ready when this emergency transpired. I'd fly with that LADY anytime!  RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Having been through Navy NFO training - yes - the attrition rate is very high (only 30% complete). This is a fine example of how it is supposed to work with ATC and the aircrew. I don't think it could have gone any better given the circumstances of the aircraft.

Jess - you did what you thought was right.  As a JAG investigating , you were just making a recommendation, it's up to command / the Air Force to decide on the appropriate action.

Yes, I know.  It took me a number of years of service to realize that what was strictly legal and what was strictly in the best interests of the Air Force was usually, but not always, the same thing.  A smarter guy might have figured that out sooner, given that the Judge Advocate General was only a 2-star (but now a 3-star), and there were a whole pile of operational non-JAG 3 and 4-stars above him.  And my JAG bosses usually, but not always, kept me from stepping on my Johnson. 

[Westernbiker]

She's strong, she's brave, and she's very good at what she does.  In contrast to the title of the thread, though, her strength and success has not so much to do with her feminine characteristics, but that she carries certain characteristics more often present in males than in females.

Women are indeed the fairer sex. One might do well to research the definition of the term especially as used in this phrase.  It doesn't apply to this story.

Captain Shults is just what the situation called for and she did an excellent job of putting that craft on the ground to the benefit of 148 passengers depending upon her.  She's a great pilot and a very good person.

Tough crowd  ??? I was trying to be polite, witty, and respectful with the title. Evidently I was none. I didn't realize it would be scrutinized. I will strive to be more on target in the future. She is a very good pilot under pressure for sure. 

You should know better by now. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

She's strong, she's brave, and she's very good at what she does.  In contrast to the title of the thread, though, her strength and success has not so much to do with her feminine characteristics, but that she carries certain characteristics more often present in males than in females.

Women are indeed the fairer sex. One might do well to research the definition of the term especially as used in this phrase.  It doesn't apply to this story.

Captain Shults is just what the situation called for and she did an excellent job of putting that craft on the ground to the benefit of 148 passengers depending upon her.  She's a great pilot and a very good person.

Tough crowd  ??? I was trying to be polite, witty, and respectful with the title. Evidently I was none. I didn't realize it would be scrutinized. I will strive to be more on target in the future. She is a very good pilot under pressure for sure. 

You should know better by now. 

you are right 

[Pete]

Yes it is a tough crowd.
And it was a good reasoned discussion.
With varying opinions.
Nothing wrong with that.

She did a great job and women are the fairer sex, all seem to agree with that.

[baldo]

It's agreed, she did an excellent job. Her drive, as reported, to become a pilot is very impressive. I've met a few pilots like her over the years, it's always a pleasure talking with someone that is so dedicated to their craft.

My post is more about the aircraft damage. looking at the pictures that have been circulating on-line. The window that was blown out is at least 10 rows back. It looks like the fan is missing one blade, and didn't come apart, which is surprising in itself. All the damage is cowling. Look at the inboard fan cowling. It looks like the whole thing folded back on itself. The ring cowl is gone, shredded. This is a very unusual result of a single fan blade failure.

[Robert]

It's agreed, she did an excellent job. Her drive, as reported, to become a pilot is very impressive. I've met a few pilots like her over the years, it's always a pleasure talking with someone that is so dedicated to their craft.

My post is more about the aircraft damage. looking at the pictures that have been circulating on-line. The window that was blown out is at least 10 rows back. It looks like the fan is missing one blade, and didn't come apart, which is surprising in itself. All the damage is cowling. Look at the inboard fan cowling. It looks like the whole thing folded back on itself. The ring cowl is gone, shredded. This is a very unusual result of a single fan blade failure.

You expressed my wondering s exactly, we see the videos of the engines sucking in frozen chickens without damage and I wonder what really happened here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgspIiTFWIk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfXX7qppbc

Part of this test is the fact that the front cowling is supposed to contain the blades if they break off.

Fact: An A380 Can Fly on One Engine

A recent engine blowout on an Air France Airbus A380

https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2017/10/02/a380-one-engine-flight/

[baldo]

It's agreed, she did an excellent job. Her drive, as reported, to become a pilot is very impressive. I've met a few pilots like her over the years, it's always a pleasure talking with someone that is so dedicated to their craft.

My post is more about the aircraft damage. looking at the pictures that have been circulating on-line. The window that was blown out is at least 10 rows back. It looks like the fan is missing one blade, and didn't come apart, which is surprising in itself. All the damage is cowling. Look at the inboard fan cowling. It looks like the whole thing folded back on itself. The ring cowl is gone, shredded. This is a very unusual result of a single fan blade failure.

You expressed my wondering s exactly, we see the videos of the engines sucking in frozen chickens without damage and I wonder what really happened here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgspIiTFWIk
]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfXX7qppbc

Part of this test is the fact that the front cowling is supposed to contain the blades if they break off.

The containment ring appears to be intact. Truth be told, that ring isn't something that I, as a mechanic, can really inspect. It's integral to the engine case, you won't find a part number and order one out in the field. In the engine shop, maybe. I don't see any damage in the acoustic liner directly under the blades, in fact the remaining blades look to be in decent shape. It's hard to tell from the images found on-line. Most times when a blade departs, there's debris that causes more damage than is seen.

There are some pics of people looking under the inboard cowling, I wonder if something came through behind the fan. That would be very unusual.

I went on a road trip to Portland, Maine many years ago to change an engine on a 737 that had ingested a goose. The first stage fan was reduced to half it's normal diameter and looked like something from Mad Max. When we opened the fan cowl, a handful of little bits of fan blades fell to the ground. I have a few of them on my keychain.....

[Robert]

There are some pics of people looking under the inboard cowling, I wonder if something came through behind the fan. That would be very unusual.

The window that was blown out is actually behind the engine and almost to the back of the wing. Debris must have come around the engine and back with enough force to destroy the window. But surprising none of the windows to the side were destroyed.

[old2soon]

Anyone here have a decent idea of the R P Ms that engine was turning at that altitude and-what-cruise speed? Been away from working on aircraft fer a cursed LONG time!  Guessing here the containment is NOT an easy change out? RIDE SAFE.

[Serk]

Anyone here have a decent idea of the R P Ms that engine was turning at that altitude and-what-cruise speed? Been away from working on aircraft fer a cursed LONG time!  Guessing here the containment is NOT an easy change out? RIDE SAFE.

Looks like max N1 at 100% for a  CFM56-7B engine is 5175RPM.
(Might sound relatively low, but keep in mind the fan diameter is 67", so those outer bits of the fan blades are moving FAST.)

(100% N2 = 14460 RPM, but from my quick googling on N2 it appears tha's not the actual turbine fan itself but some internal components, perhaps Baldo can 'splain?)

[Robert]

I was shocked when Meats post is labeled politically incorrect and disturbing to many. 

Sully’ was just a hero. Why label the Southwest captain a ‘female pilot’?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/04/19/sully-was-just-a-hero-why-label-the-southwest-captain-a-female-pilot/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.aa57ea6e0664

LOL

[Gavin_Sons]

I was shocked when Meats post is labeled politically incorrect and disturbing to many. 

Sully’ was just a hero. Why label the Southwest captain a ‘female pilot’?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/04/19/sully-was-just-a-hero-why-label-the-southwest-captain-a-female-pilot/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.aa57ea6e0664

LOL

because we are a society of labels. We have to label everything. 

[Willow]

I was shocked when Meats post is labeled politically incorrect and disturbing to many. 

Sully’ was just a hero. Why label the Southwest captain a ‘female pilot’?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/04/19/sully-was-just-a-hero-why-label-the-southwest-captain-a-female-pilot/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.aa57ea6e0664

LOL

What a dumbass article.  The question is easily answered.  It's because the gender of that pilot is in the extreme minority and thus noteworthy.  She is a very good pilot.  Nothing in the attacked piece took anything away from Tammie Jo Shults' skill and ability.  The author of the complaining piece pretends that just because there are some female pilots it's not unusual enough to be mentioned.  Female pilots are more than they used to be but are only up to five or six percent.

Tammie Jo Shults is a very good pilot.  She performed very well under very adverse conditions.  I don't think we need to pretend that she's just another pilot.   

[baldo]

Anyone here have a decent idea of the R P Ms that engine was turning at that altitude and-what-cruise speed? Been away from working on aircraft fer a cursed LONG time!  Guessing here the containment is NOT an easy change out? RIDE SAFE.

Looks like max N1 at 100% for a  CFM56-7B engine is 5175RPM.
(Might sound relatively low, but keep in mind the fan diameter is 67", so those outer bits of the fan blades are moving FAST.)

(100% N2 = 14460 RPM, but from my quick googling on N2 it appears tha's not the actual turbine fan itself but some internal components, perhaps Baldo can 'splain?)

Here's a good explanation of the N1/N2 relationship. I'd butcher it trying to poke at my phone...

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/14690

[John Schmidt]

Re. the title of the post, I have to agree....women are definitely the fairer sex. I've never seen a male that I'd say fits that description.....well.....maybe Boy George.    As for being good pilots, I've flown with more than one where I fell asleep 10 minutes into the flight and woke up while taxiing to the parking spot. However my former wife wasn't one of them. When she was at the controls I was wide awake 'cuz if I fell asleep I never knew where I would wake up. That woman could get lost in a phone booth. 

[scooperhsd]

Tammi Jo has "The Right Stuff" .  So does the copilot.

[baldo]

Some basic info and pix of the CFM56 engine type found on the SWA aircraft.

[baldo]

http://www.fox29.com/news/southwest-1380-passengers-receive-letter-5000-and-travel-voucher-as-compensation

[Serk]

http://www.fox29.com/news/southwest-1380-passengers-receive-letter-5000-and-travel-voucher-as-compensation

My love and respect for Southwest Airlines just went up a few more notches... My first assumption was this was a "Accepting this gives us immunity" thing, but it's not, it's just the airline giving those on board a little cash and travel funds to help 'em out, no strings attached (But VERY inexpensive good PR for Southwest of course!)

"Passengers also received a $1,000 travel voucher, according to the letter. Those who accept the money did not appear to be precluded from taking legal action in the future or pursuing a further financial settlement."