Another school shooting, this time in Santa Fe, Texas

[Gryphon Rider]

Choose your favourite news source, but here's one:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html

[Serk]

Live video feed from a local Houston news station:

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/watch-live-multiple-students-killed-in-shooting-at-santa-fe-hs-federal-official-says/285-553331098

[Super Santa]

One of our Texas members live very close to that school and his kids are/have attended that school.

I texted with Joe Valk Santa Fe short bit ago and he states that his daughter is home and his family is safe.

[old2soon]

IS there a conspiracy afoot OR are there THAT many deranged people that just git off killing innocent people? The wounds are still fresh after Florida and now again it happens. And just What-last week?-in Illinois the school Resource Officer thwarted that tragedy. Is social media helping all this horror? Far far TOO many questions not near nuff answers. RIDE SAFE.

[old2soon]

One of our Texas members live very close to that school and his kids are/have attended that school.

I texted with Joe Valk Santa Fe short bit ago and he states that his daughter is home and his family is safe.

               Thank GOD! 

[Willow]

IS there a conspiracy afoot OR are there THAT many deranged people that just git off killing innocent people? ...

There are hundreds of millions people reading or hearing the "news".  a very, very small percentage of people for whatever reason are deranged.  It only takes one or two inspired by the "news" to generate more "news".  It's hard for us to believe but there are humans who would rather be famous (infamous?) than live.

I don't know the answer.  If we lived 150 years ago we would be less aware of the problems and likely there would be fewer of these issues. 

[Jess from VA]

I also think people valued life 150 years ago (hell 30 years ago) more than today.  Or maybe they all valued themselves less than others, since this continues to be.... all about me.  I also think this is copy cat behavior to a large degree.

17 years old.  Where did the gun come from?  Try as an adult, and put him under the jail.

I put his picture up, then took it down.

[Valker]

I really believe that most of these would go away if there was a TOTAL news blackout of the shooter's name and pictures.

[Serk]

Interesting hearing all the news talking heads breathlessly going on and on about the Nazi Iron Cross on his jacket, but no mention of the hammer and sickle he also had on the jacket.

[f6gal]

I really believe that most of these would go away if there was a TOTAL news blackout of the shooter's name and pictures.

THIS ↑ ... Actually, if the news would stop turning them into spectacular events.  They are creating copy-cats trying to top the list of deadliest.

[Rams]

Read an unverified report that the weapon used was the same weapon Joe Biden and most Liberals claim is the only weapon needed for home defense.   A shotgun.   Anyone know for sure?

My condolences to the families and friends of those who so needlessly died...

Rams

[Serk]

Read an unverified report that the weapon used was the same weapon Joe Biden and most Liberals claim is the only weapon needed for home defense.   A shotgun.   Anyone know for sure?

Confirmed by Governor Abbott... The weapons used were a shotgun and a .38 revolver. (And IEDs, but no indication any deaths or injuries resulted from his IEDs)

[old2soon]

c b s cut in with national breaking news and reported the shooter had an ar15 TYPE rifle. git it out to the slobberin hordes whether or not the "reporting" is correct or not. thinkin ar15 plays better than a shotgun!  AND i'd be willin to bet that c b s NEVER recants the wrong info they put out.
   c b s=can't believe sh t they say. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

They were dad's guns. 

I'm not a fan of laws requiring guns be locked up.  But parents must be accountable for minor's unlawful use of their firearms.

I have heard sawed off shotgun.  Is that how it came in the front door?

[Titan]

I have personally felt that national news coverage has been the driver behind many spectacular crimes since D. B. Cooper hijacked a plane in 1971. Hijacking (skyjacking) was basically unheard of, even though there had been hijackings since 1929. But, in 1971, news had started getting spread very quickly around the world and the 1971 hijacking received tons of coverage for quite a long time. It was the inspiration for many copycat hijackings.
When the copycats started, I always thought it was because the news spread the word and the nut-cases,  who had never thought of such a thing, decided to give it a shot.

We all know that media coverage is up to the minute today from anywhere in the world. We're stuck with it and we're stuck with copycat crimes. The MSM and social media are not going away and neither will we ever see such crimes stop. Sad outlook, but it's what I believe.

[MP]

Remember "Streakers" at sporting events?

When did they end?

When cameras quit showing them. When announcers stopped talking about them. When they were ignored.

[..]

Remember "Streakers" at sporting events?

When did they end?

When cameras quit showing them. When announcers stopped talking about them. When they were ignored.

Not ended. Just not reported as much.

[f6john]

I heard on Fox he came in wearing a trench coat! Middle of May in southern Texas!

[..]

Remember "Streakers" at sporting events?

When did they end?

When cameras quit showing them. When announcers stopped talking about them. When they were ignored.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5745825/CCTV-footage-shows-naked-man-streaking-stores-TWO-Texas-cities-day.html

[MarkT]

Remember "Streakers" at sporting events?

When did they end?

When cameras quit showing them. When announcers stopped talking about them. When they were ignored.

I recall when streaking was all the rage.  I was at U-Tapao RTAFB (B-52 base in Thailand), '73.  As soon as the news hit the base commander said any copycat incidents would result in courts-martial.  There were none.  Betcha that would have happened, had he not announced immediately what would happen.  

I am certain this is the main driver for these incidents.  The MSM can't help themselves but to use the incidents for their ratings.  After all, it's FREE CONTENT of "BREAKING NEWS" caliber. I'm sure they know they are driving the incidents with their reporting, and they couldn't care less.  AND they get to blame the NRA and the Right.  Fits right into their agenda.  And they can't be stopped thanks to the 1st Amendment.

[Psychotic Bovine]

Some have said we need magazine limits, you know, to give the victims time to tackle the shooter. Well, it was a Remington 870 shotgun (5 +1 rounds, very slow reload), and a 6 shot .38 revolver (again, pretty slow reload).  10 killed, many injured.  Tell me again how limiting mag capacity would have prevented it?

[old2soon]

Some have said we need magazine limits, you know, to give the victims time to tackle the shooter. Well, it was a Remington 870 shotgun (5 +1 rounds, very slow reload), and a 6 shot .38 revolver (again, pretty slow reload).  10 killed, many injured.  Tell me again how limiting mag capacity would have prevented it?

              Chris-you and I both KNOW that even IF all guns were banned yesterday the criminals will NEVER give up theirs. Course IF they Were in fact banned yesterday I would now be a criminal. Folks from Australia have even told we Americans to NOT give up our weapons. In Sante Fe Texas was there even a Resource officer on duty when that shooting happened? RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

They'll be happy to add revolvers and 5-8 shot pump guns into the bann too (even though those only come later in the master plan).

If we can't secure the doors, teachers (or someone) need to be wearing (or have immediate access to) a firearm.  But smart kids can probably figure out which rooms aren't armed.  

We really need to secure the doors.  It's really going to slow things down with scanning everyone (and every backpack/purse) coming in (like airports), but I can't think of a better solution.  (Of course, there has to be multi faceted security outside to inside, but that's the big one to me.)

And it must be noted, not one of these shooters has been female, right?  Maybe in time.  

[..]

They'll be happy to add revolvers and 5-8 shot pump guns into the bann too (even though those only come later in the master plan).

If we can't secure the doors, teachers (or someone) need to be wearing (or have immediate access to) a firearm.  But smart kids can probably figure out which rooms aren't armed.  

We really need to secure the doors.  It's really going to slow things down with scanning everyone (and every backpack/purse) coming in (like airports), but I can't think of a better solution.  (Of course, there has to be multi faceted security outside to inside, but that's the big one to me.)

And it must be noted, not one of these shooters has been female, right?  Maybe in time.  

Both of the private schools I drive for have doors that only open with an ID pass card.

Pretty good idea until someone who has shown no signs of being a nut job but has a valid ID pass card can gain access to a building.

One of the schools just had a very minor problem with a senior who was suspended who came into the school to "discuss" the problem without making an appointment.

As for scanning back packs.

Do between 1,000 and 2,000 at a high school in the space of about 30 minutes? Not going to happen unless the school systems adopt a staggered start time for classes.

[G-Man]

Whatever you do, DON'T Protect The Kids ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Limit this, outlaw that.  It's all Bullshit!  The guns aren't going anywhere.  Everyone knows it.

So, why aren't they protecting the kids?  Why are court houses and airport so well protected, but not the schools?

[Willow]

What I'm going to say may sound cynical.

We are out of touch.  There were more high school students killed last month in automobile accidents than in school violence.  We are allowing our attention to be focused by the "news" reports rather than by reality.  It is tragic and sad when a student is shot in school, but the schools are still very safe places compared to where danger truly lurks more often.

[G-Man]

What I'm going to say may sound cynical.

We are out of touch.  There were more high school students killed last month in automobile accidents than in school violence.  We are allowing our attention to be focused by the "news" reports rather than by reality.  It is tragic and sad when a student is shot in school, but the schools are still very safe places compared to where danger truly lurks more often.

Agreed, but these can at least be addressed and at the least, reduced. 

More lawyers are killed in every other way, OTHER than being shot in courthouses.  Why can't we do the same for our kids?   

[Jersey mike]

ok so I've said this before and i still stand by it until someone proves me wrong. this is not a gun issue. this is a society issue. this is an issue of kid(s) killing kids. this isn't adults walking into a school and shooting. this wasn't a kid walking into a grocery store, a shopping mall, a community park a Wal-Mart or a restaurant or fast food joint shooting random people. this was a 17 year old going after those at school.

maybe it's an issue with the school systems across the whole country. when i was growing up there were always rumors and whisperings of a bomb threat being called in to surrounding high schools but nothing ever became of it, at least publicly.

the ONLY way this can be made a gun issue is that the parent was not responsible enough with securing his firearms. as an owner of firearms one should be responsible enough to know who has access to your guns when you are not home and who can or cannot be trusted when you are not at home. a gun is like any other item of value that should be locked up and secure from people while the rightful owner is not there to ensure they do not wander off or being played with. as the owner of the firearm it is your responsibility to ensure nobody gets their hands on your guns when you're not there.

but again, this is an issue of kids killing kids. the real question is why?! what social dynamic has shifted so greatly that this has become as crazy as it has. i have my own thought/ideas and opinions on this many which have been discussed before but if i list them this post will just get too long and drawn out.

[northernvalk]

What I'm going to say may sound cynical.

We are out of touch.  There were more high school students killed last month in automobile accidents than in school violence.  We are allowing our attention to be focused by the "news" reports rather than by reality.  It is tragic and sad when a student is shot in school, but the schools are still very safe places compared to where danger truly lurks more often.

Willow, with all due respect, comparing accidental death with homicide is not going to help anything. There are very few cases of teenage vehicular homicide, especially when you remove the DUI cases. Comparing the two only gives the anti's more ammunition(pun intended). This is a societal problem that may or may not be amplified by the availability of guns. We will never know if some, or all, of these mass murders would have taken place if the guns were not available? Would these kids have used other "devices" to kill lots of people at once? I would say no, there would be less due to ease.  It's FAR easier and simpler to get a gun, ammo and pull a trigger than to build a bomb or plan some sort of chemical/biological attack. Are guns the reason, NO, do they make killing easier, YES. The ONLY way to get the anti's off your backs is to put some brain power on the job of answering the question "Why are our children killing their peers?" The gun lobby has LOTS of money, it's up to it's members to force them to HELP the problem instead of just arguing that it isn't their problem to help.....

[Willow]

What I'm going to say may sound cynical.

We are out of touch.  There were more high school students killed last month in automobile accidents than in school violence.  We are allowing our attention to be focused by the "news" reports rather than by reality.  It is tragic and sad when a student is shot in school, but the schools are still very safe places compared to where danger truly lurks more often.

Willow, with all due respect, comparing accidental death with homicide is not going to help anything. There are very few cases of teenage vehicular homicide, especially when you remove the DUI cases. Comparing the two only gives the anti's more ammunition(pun intended). This is a societal problem that may or may not be amplified by the availability of guns. We will never know if some, or all, of these mass murders would have taken place if the guns were not available? Would these kids have used other "devices" to kill lots of people at once? I would say no, there would be less due to ease.  It's FAR easier and simpler to get a gun, ammo and pull a trigger than to build a bomb or plan some sort of chemical/biological attack. Are guns the reason, NO, do they make killing easier, YES. The ONLY way to get the anti's off your backs is to put some brain power on the job of answering the question "Why are our children killing their peers?" The gun lobby has LOTS of money, it's up to it's members to force them to HELP the problem instead of just arguing that it isn't their problem to help.....

Without unwarranted respect you obviously don't know what you're talking (typing) about.  Loss by death is pretty much the same whether it is by an accident that could've been avoided or by a homicidal maniac that could've been avoided. There is certainly a limited amount of resource to be applied to attempting to prevent deaths of whatever category.  Because the "news" makes a really big deal of a very small minority of the deaths we are inclined to spend all the resources in attempting to prevent (largely unsuccessfully) those relatively few homicides while not allocating resources or taking away resources from efforts to prevent the much, much larger incidents of accidental deaths.

It appears your preferences is to pursue your pet peeve of reducing the availability of weapons.  You are correct in that it is a cultural issue with guns being simply the chosen instruments.  We could make gun deaths in general go away if we could somehow reduce the number of guns available to zero.  Someday we'll have to discuss the impossibility of that goal.  The cost of that attempt is monumental both financially and in stolen safety to innumerable current gun owners.  

You seem to think that the pro-constitution people can best gain their objective by placating the anti-constitution crowd.  I disagree.

The best answer to bad gays with guns, however unattractive it may be to some, is still more good guys with guns including in the school system.  There is no perfect solution.    

[northernvalk]

Willow, I have repeatedly stated that guns are not the root problem. this is not a gun issue but it has been used by the antis as a battle cry for reduced gun rights. A significant contribution to the investigation and resolution of the root cause would not only help prove the antis wrong, but also be for the betterment of society as a whole. Beat them at their own game and improve the situation at the same time.

As for death in general, Everyone lives life with the assumed risk of every activity the participate in. We know there is a chance we could die on the road. My entire family was killed in an accdient in 92, I was the lone survivor. I know to well the risks of driving.  But there is no set amount of people who will die every year and reducing the risk of death is a billion dollar business. Reducing the risk of goimg to school for children should be part of that spending.

You are right, death is death, but reducing the number of deaths and doing the right thing for society would look great for companies being blamed for the problem

[northernvalk]

What I'm going to say may sound cynical.

We are out of touch.  There were more high school students killed last month in automobile accidents than in school violence.  We are allowing our attention to be focused by the "news" reports rather than by reality.  It is tragic and sad when a student is shot in school, but the schools are still very safe places compared to where danger truly lurks more often.

Willow, with all due respect, comparing accidental death with homicide is not going to help anything. There are very few cases of teenage vehicular homicide, especially when you remove the DUI cases. Comparing the two only gives the anti's more ammunition(pun intended). This is a societal problem that may or may not be amplified by the availability of guns. We will never know if some, or all, of these mass murders would have taken place if the guns were not available? Would these kids have used other "devices" to kill lots of people at once? I would say no, there would be less due to ease.  It's FAR easier and simpler to get a gun, ammo and pull a trigger than to build a bomb or plan some sort of chemical/biological attack. Are guns the reason, NO, do they make killing easier, YES. The ONLY way to get the anti's off your backs is to put some brain power on the job of answering the question "Why are our children killing their peers?" The gun lobby has LOTS of money, it's up to it's members to force them to HELP the problem instead of just arguing that it isn't their problem to help.....

It appears your preferences is to pursue your pet peeve of reducing the availability of weapons.  You are correct in that it is a cultural issue with guns being simply the chosen instruments.  We could make gun deaths in general go away if we could somehow reduce the number of guns available to zero.  

Willow, I think you have me confused with someone else, I am a proud gun owner, hunter and trapper. I used guns as a tool in many facits of my life. I would never want them taken away.

[Gryphon Rider]

Loss by death is pretty much the same whether it is by an accident that could've been avoided or by a homicidal maniac that could've been avoided.

I disagree.  Death by homicide causes a great deal more suffering amongst the loved ones of the deceased than unintended death causes, often with the aftereffects of hatred, and sometimes leading to revenge.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Loss by death is pretty much the same whether it is by an accident that could've been avoided or by a homicidal maniac that could've been avoided.

I disagree.  Death by homicide causes a great deal more suffering amongst the loved ones of the deceased than unintended death causes, often with the aftereffects of hatred, and sometimes leading to revenge.

I've never thought about it before, but I think you are right. I would obviously be crushed either way if something happened to either of my grandkids. But I would probably be plotting something sinister for someone who intentionally hurt them.

[phideux]

I also think people valued life 150 years ago (hell 30 years ago) more than today.  Or maybe they all valued themselves less than others, since this continues to be.... all about me.  I also think this is copy cat behavior to a large degree.

17 years old.  Where did the gun come from?  Try as an adult, and put him under the jail.

I put his picture up, then took it down.

Also 150 years ago, within 30 days they would be swinging from a noose in front of the courthouse for all to see. Start doing that again and I bet this kind of stuff would slack off.

[hubcapsc]

I also think people valued life 150 years ago (hell 30 years ago) more than today.  Or maybe they all valued themselves less than others, since this continues to be.... all about me.  I also think this is copy cat behavior to a large degree.

17 years old.  Where did the gun come from?  Try as an adult, and put him under the jail.

I put his picture up, then took it down.

Also 150 years ago, within 30 days they would be swinging from a noose in front of the courthouse for all to see. Start doing that again and I bet this kind of stuff would slack off.

Make them sure that they'll be quickly added to the general population
at the local penitentiary. South Carolina's most famous recent mass shooter
is in a private cell in Indiana.

-Mike