Confirmed, Obama advisors manipulation to control guns.

[Robert]

You are told you are nuts thinking that they would use the tragedies as a platform to push gun control legislation. But you are not and in fact its nice to understand the way that some people manipulate, lie and distort to get their own way. If you are a deplorable wear it being proud that the agenda doesn't have a patsy to push around. Now the proof is out that the left using emotion wrapped up in lies to push the gun control agenda. We are finding out recently just how badly our freedom was almost taken away by the plots of the progressives, proving once more, laws, morals, respect mean nothing. 



Obama Advisors' Emails In Immediate Sandy Hook Aftermath Reveal Anti-Gun Agenda: 'Tap Peoples Emotions'

https://www.dailywire.com/news/30993/exposed-emails-obama-staffers-minutes-following-amanda-prestigiacomo

ccording to emails obtained via a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, first reported by The Baltimore Post, advisors to then-President Barack Obama immediately strategized how to exploit the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary school to push their gun control agenda. "Tap peoples [sic] emotions," Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel advised then-Education Secretary Arne Duncan on December 16, 2012, just two days after the massacre that left 26 dead. The victims' bodies were yet to be laid to rest.

The two discussed how they could exploit the tragedy to bring about their anti-gun agenda. "What are your thoughts?" Duncan asked Emanuel on an email with the subject line, "CT shooting."

"Go for a vote this week asap before it fades," replied Emanuel. "Tap peoples [sic] emotion. Make it simple assault weapons."

[Chrisj CMA]

I think we should ban the use of any guns in the protection of a democrat.

[Bighead]

We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken that society guilty rather than the law breaker.It is time to restore tha American precept that EACH individual is responsible for his OWN actions........... Ronald Reagan.......no truer words have ever been spoken and they are just as if not more relevant today than 30 someodd years ago when they were spoken.

[Bighead]

I think we should ban the use of any guns in the protection of a democrat.

Especially politicians and The Hollywood elite.

[Davemn]

And the NRA does nothing to exploit their view. Got it.

[Chrisj CMA]

And the NRA does nothing to exploit their view. Got it.

You mean the view that responsible patriotic Americans should own and be proficient with modern firearms and the right to do shall not be infringed. That view.

As opposed to let’s ban all the guns and change the constitution if we have to.

I fail to see a valid comparison.

[Serk]

The NRA are far too willing to compromise and give in to the enemies of liberty.

(And I say that as a Benefactor Life Patriot Member of the NRA... But prefer the GOA or NAGR when it comes to real defense of civil rights.)

[¿spoom]

And the NRA does nothing to exploit their view. Got it.

One is a political party, one is a lobbying group.

[Serk]

And the NRA does nothing to exploit their view. Got it.

One is a political party, one is a lobbying group.

Not just a lobbying group. The oldest civil rights group in the nation!

[Willow]

If anything in the original post surprises you I have to wonder where you have been sleeping.  All political agendas will pursue what current public thinking, emotional or otherwise, is to their benefit.

Why do we keep posting crap that does nothing but gain pats on the back from folks who are already in support of our view but cause controversy and division in the VRCC community at large?  If I had my way we would prohibit any post that seems to have a sole purpose of riling and encouraging the divisions among us.

I don't think we should abandon our social and political views.  I hold strong political, social, and religious views of my own.  Posting crap whose purpose seems to be to get in the face of those who see things differently or just rally the ones who see things the same serves no real productive purpose.  It changes no one's mind.  It gains no one's support.  I don't see us doing this in person.  Why do we feel driven to do it from behind our keyboards?   

I know that by replying to this I've brought the thread back to the top.  I regret that.

[Chrisj CMA]

If anything in the original post surprises you I have to wonder where you have been sleeping.  All political agendas will pursue what current public thinking, emotional or otherwise, is to their benefit.

Why do we keep posting crap that does nothing but gain pats on the back from folks who are already in support of our view but cause controversy and division in the VRCC community at large?  If I had my way we would prohibit any post that seems to have a sole purpose of riling and encouraging the divisions among us.

I don't think we should abandon our social and political views.  I hold strong political, social, and religious views of my own.  Posting crap whose purpose seems to be to get in the face of those who see things differently or just rally the ones who see things the same serves no real productive purpose.  It changes no one's mind.  It gains no one's support.  I don't see us doing this in person.  Why do we feel driven to do it from behind our keyboards?   

I know that by replying to this I've brought the thread back to the top.  I regret that.

Mostly I agree with your sentiment here Carl. What gives me a pain I can't locate is how easily we have learned to get our feelings hurt.

Conversation along political and or religious lines rarely changes anyone's mind but it is cathartic and we should be able to discuss it even if heated at times without it being so personal. 

I come from a mixed family Italian and Polish. We have always spoken our minds and gotten over differences before it caused division.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If anything in the original post surprises you I have to wonder where you have been sleeping.  All political agendas will pursue what current public thinking, emotional or otherwise, is to their benefit.

Why do we keep posting crap that does nothing but gain pats on the back from folks who are already in support of our view but cause controversy and division in the VRCC community at large?  If I had my way we would prohibit any post that seems to have a sole purpose of riling and encouraging the divisions among us.

I don't think we should abandon our social and political views.  I hold strong political, social, and religious views of my own.  Posting crap whose purpose seems to be to get in the face of those who see things differently or just rally the ones who see things the same serves no real productive purpose.  It changes no one's mind.  It gains no one's support.  I don't see us doing this in person.  Why do we feel driven to do it from behind our keyboards?   

I know that by replying to this I've brought the thread back to the top.  I regret that.

Mostly I agree with your sentiment here Carl. What gives me a pain I can't locate is how easily we have learned to get our feelings hurt.

Conversation along political and or religious lines rarely changes anyone's mind but it is cathartic and we should be able to discuss it even if heated at times without it being so personal. 

I come from a mixed family Italian and Polish. We have always spoken our minds and gotten over differences before it caused division.

I love spirited debate. But when stuff gets stated that is blatantly false and the poster refuses to acknowledge his inaccuracies or worse yet doesn't care if what they post is true, it becomes just a big circle jerk of like minded people looking for affirmation. This forum is mostly comprised of conservative minded folks, and that is great. But there are many to the left of center who move on or don't engage here at all because of said circle . And that's a shame.

[Bighead]

If anything in the original post surprises you I have to wonder where you have been sleeping.  All political agendas will pursue what current public thinking, emotional or otherwise, is to their benefit.

Why do we keep posting crap that does nothing but gain pats on the back from folks who are already in support of our view but cause controversy and division in the VRCC community at large?  If I had my way we would prohibit any post that seems to have a sole purpose of riling and encouraging the divisions among us.

I don't think we should abandon our social and political views.  I hold strong political, social, and religious views of my own.  Posting crap whose purpose seems to be to get in the face of those who see things differently or just rally the ones who see things the same serves no real productive purpose.  It changes no one's mind.  It gains no one's support.  I don't see us doing this in person.  Why do we feel driven to do it from behind our keyboards?   

I know that by replying to this I've brought the thread back to the top.  I regret that.

Mostly I agree with your sentiment here Carl. What gives me a pain I can't locate is how easily we have learned to get our feelings hurt.

Conversation along political and or religious lines rarely changes anyone's mind but it is cathartic and we should be able to discuss it even if heated at times without it being so personal. 

I come from a mixed family Italian and Polish. We have always spoken our minds and gotten over differences before it caused division.

I love a big circle jerk.

Are you the pivot man? ???
Just pokin fun no need to get hostile.

[Savago]

Speaking for myself, I would like to see more posts on (in no particular order):
a) Motorcycles
b) Motorcycle gear
c) Tools
d) Archery
e) Books
f) Guns
g) Ride reports
h) Riding safety
etc.

I'm trying my best to avoid posting political things or engaging in senseless discussions.

[Bighead]

Speaking for myself, I would like to see more posts on:
a) Motorcycles
b) Motorcycle gear
c) Tools
d) Archery
e) Books
f) Guns

I'm trying my best to avoid posting political things or engaging in senseless discussions.

Seems u just did it again.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If anything in the original post surprises you I have to wonder where you have been sleeping.  All political agendas will pursue what current public thinking, emotional or otherwise, is to their benefit.

Why do we keep posting crap that does nothing but gain pats on the back from folks who are already in support of our view but cause controversy and division in the VRCC community at large?  If I had my way we would prohibit any post that seems to have a sole purpose of riling and encouraging the divisions among us.

I don't think we should abandon our social and political views.  I hold strong political, social, and religious views of my own.  Posting crap whose purpose seems to be to get in the face of those who see things differently or just rally the ones who see things the same serves no real productive purpose.  It changes no one's mind.  It gains no one's support.  I don't see us doing this in person.  Why do we feel driven to do it from behind our keyboards?   

I know that by replying to this I've brought the thread back to the top.  I regret that.

Mostly I agree with your sentiment here Carl. What gives me a pain I can't locate is how easily we have learned to get our feelings hurt.

Conversation along political and or religious lines rarely changes anyone's mind but it is cathartic and we should be able to discuss it even if heated at times without it being so personal. 

I come from a mixed family Italian and Polish. We have always spoken our minds and gotten over differences before it caused division.

I love a big circle jerk.

Are you the pivot man? ???
Just pokin fun no need to get hostile.

"pokin fun" works best when quotes are accurate. 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

The NRA are far too willing to compromise and give in to the enemies of liberty.

(And I say that as a Benefactor Life Patriot Member of the NRA... But prefer the GOA or NAGR when it comes to real defense of civil rights.)

Agree.

[Robert]

In this politically correct world we have had to stop saying Merry Christmas with abandon. We have had to change thinking on so many issues to prepare us or change us for the new thinking and ways. Why is the question. Riding a motorcycle you were thought of as someone with less than stellar qualities. But the truth are motorcylists are some of the most awesome people with a few bad eggs in the bunch. Just from a thought a idea that was planted in misconception. 

 So how does the truth divide? How does revealing a plan and purpose to confiscate our guns and how those plans include lying and manipulation divide? If it does was that division based on people not liking guns or not liking the second amendment. We have lost in many cases freedom of speech just because of the accusation that those who dont think in a certain way are insensitive?

All of this was done like Meats posts of repeated false and misleading statements that again like his posts that if you keep saying the same thing over and over regardless of fact people will believe it. That is division manipulation and mind control for blatantly wrong reasons. Yet I see no one addressing this issue. Its not bringing facts to the table so the truth can be told and proper corrections be made. It is done out of malice and wanting to influence people who we may know would otherwise could not be influenced and especially when the facts dont support our statements.

 Our government has been using that on us and now that there is proof not just the suspected truth in us. Some dont like this truth coming out and think the truth divides. A half truth that is kept repeating is worse than a full on lie and sometimes its nice to know how the control works. These are proven techniques that are being used on us not just simple misstatements that we accept as normal, which they are not in any fashion. Even the repeating of these can be thought of as truth some day.

We have forgotten like in Chris's post to be straight on in saying something and having respect that what was said will be with truth, respect and in consideration of purpose even if we dont like it. The respectful exchange of ideas and purposes to help defend, protect, enlighten, and share. Which instead of division breeds awareness and gratitude.

No one wants the stigma of appearing to be insensitive or inconsiderate even when we know in our hearts that what is being said is wrong, but to be able to say what the reason with fact and acknowledgement is behind it is always important. To understand in ourselves that its not just us but a plan and have it revealed gives confidence to all and they can say BS with confidence. If in Hitlers time more had come to the front and said things were wrong would we have had the Nazis.

Since when is revealing the truth gone out of style or seen a causing division. If that is the case then I guess we might as all just accept everything and lay down to the Meats of the world. I have never thought of myself as a sheep and always been able to defend my thoughts. But as a motorcycle board I thought many were tougher than that and not sheep, I may have been wrong. I have never liked koolaid served by anyone and thought the same about those here.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Some have no intention of truth. Some have only hate in their heart. Some profess to be holier than thou. Some will be judged for all this.

[Robert]

Some have no intention of truth. Some have only hate in their heart. Some profess to be holier than thou. Some will be judged for all this.

Another perfect example, I ask what statements were made that were false and what is the truth of the statements lied about? What was the intent of the statements supposedly lied about and who made those statements? Please reveal it to me and us so we understand the depth of the problem.

There is one thing in our courts that even Comey was able to get Hillary off with, intent. What was Comeys intent in saying there was no intent in Hillarys crimes? Comeys statements were to get Hillary off and did not acknowledge the truth, but what was the intent of the posts of this person you are referring to?

I personally don't know anyone benefiting by making false statements like in Comey's case, so I ask what would be the intent here?  If by maybe some mistake then the accuser of the brethren is always at the door holding the things over the heads of the saints and Jesus says I release you from the accuser.  That is what is meant by,  the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. He is the Judge and if we dont forgive then He will not forgive us.
 
Half knowledge is dangerous know the truth and the truth will set you free. Who do you serve today, the accuser or the one that gave mercy?

[Willow]

...  If by maybe some mistake then the accuser of the brethren is always at the door holding the things over the heads of the saints and Jesus says I release you from the accuser.  That is what is meant by,  the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. He is the Judge and if we dont forgive then He will not forgive us.
 
Half knowledge is dangerous know the truth and the truth will set you free. Who do you serve today, the accuser or the one that gave mercy?

Robert, the question is not truth or falsehood and if you use the silly excuse that I am asking you to be politically correct, you haven't bothered to know me at all.  I'll touch briefly upon truth but not waste a lot of time there.  The interpretation of "facts" is largely a matter of perspective and that perspective generally positioned by our own already accepted viewpoint.  Some people's perspectives are accurate.  Some are not.  That is essentially what disagreements (arguments) are about, what is true and what is not.  It is arrogance and gets one largely ignored for one to claim that his own perspective is true and all disagreement is false.  If you could successfully do that you would be me but you're not.   

You touched upon the real point, intention.  What was your intent with the original post?  Did you think that somehow you were going to inform someone of what he didn't know and change his mind?  Was it just a sort of, "Ha! Ha! our side was right all along."  Either way it doesn't fall under the heading of making friends and influencing people or contributing positively to the VRCC community.  If you truly want to inform or influence people you will only do that by first earning their respect.  Respect is not gained by harping over and over again on how right you are and how wrong others are.

Lest you think I direct these accusations only to you I do not.  The destructive behavior you show is common on both sides of the political/social spectrum.  It hurts the group from both ends and, incidentally, both ends believe they are providing truth.

Lastly, your use of the Scripture, especially to non-believers, needs some serious work.  People often like to apply the "truth shall set you free" to accurate facts.  It's no such thing.  The entire sentence from which you drew is,

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

That same Jesus said,  “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."  It sort of puts into context what He was talking about, not that knowing accurate facts would bring freedom but that knowing and following Him would bring freedom.  It would be best if you'd become a little more familiar with Scripture before throwing it out, out of context, to support your position before non-believers.

The Scripture also admonishes, demands, humility of believers.  That's something with which you and I both struggle.  I'm not sure where you are in your journey but I am fighting to daily overcome being proud of my humility.

Intent.  Consider intent.  If you really do want to discuss diverse opinions present it with respect.  If what you want to do is to inform people of how right you are know ahead of time that that will not result in people's changing their minds but will drive disagreeing people away from you and from the community.

What I say to you I say to all the opinionated members who continually stir up controversy with the excuse that they are only speaking the truth.  Be responsible.         

[Robert]

Willow great response thank you  

My intent is information in a game that hides intent for manipulation to further a cause making some question their own decisions, self esteem and needs falsely. Also for a bolstering of self esteem enough to separate the words from the lies and progress on a firm path to speaking their minds in hopefully support of the second amendment. Left or right the war of the mind is real and played very successfully in propaganda and psychological warfare. Not far from what we see today in the rhetoric that is spewed constantly

Some peoples concern for the position of guns is caring about the violence that has been touted in the faces of all gun owners. Well finally we have a admission of how this situation was used to further that agenda regardless of what was spoken. It was a reveal of tactics and lies and strategy that was made known, Its not hear say, conspiracy or any other derision labeled motive.

 I am personally tired of that labeling by some here and in general and if there was not at least a little bit of satisfaction in that then I would be lying. But I don't need to be reaffirmed in that, but some don't take the time to hear anything but the news media that is nothing more than propaganda these days.  

Knowing Jesus is the truth but the bible also says

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

"All truth" does not contain to just the truth of Jesus.

NO one can be in peace, joy or the Lord being in bondage to a false hood and false thinking. That is what Jesus came to do shed light on the lies of the world and the enemy. The pharisees put men under bondage Jesus a rebel to those that He came for rejected Him. Because of falsehoods, lies and bondage to false idols and thinking.

Jesus acted knowing the heart of men and the plan that He was supposed to accomplish. That knowing of truth was not what they spoke but what their intent was and was not a guess, but given by the Spirit. That was supernatural and was not a lie and that same reveal is in all of us since we all know and get a pang when a lie is revealed. The closer we get to the Spirit of truth the more we see clearly.

Yielding is mans decision and the changing of, or opening of mens hearts to understand false ideas is by the Spirit of Truth.

Now while I must admit I did not need to put that in there when someone quotes to me a false hood and uses something they know very little about in an attack then we need to clarify a few things or at least let them do some research and quit with false accusations. Heck I wouldn't want false thinking or teaching to be a held against them.

Thanks again Willow, hope I didn't bore you and your post was not only well received but will apply your intent  

[Willow]

...
Knowing Jesus is the truth but the bible also says

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

"All truth" does not contain to just the truth of Jesus.
...

Once more we will have to agree to agree on one point but not on the other.

Perhaps you need to revisit where Jesus said, "I am the truth, ..."  I don't personally think the Holy Spirit has any interest in revealing to us whether a politician lied.  That's not his purpose in our lives.

Either way it has no meaning when we relay the words to non-believers.

Some folks read the Word with an open mind ready to apply the Word to their own lives.  Some search the Scriptures to see if they can find a justification for what they have already decided to do with their lives.  We must work hard to be certain we fall into the former group.

[Robert]

Luk 12:11  "When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say;
Luk 12:12  for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

Its not a disjointed conversation our God is very personal and very detailed as you know.
I only put these here not as a accusation against you but to say that every lie is from one place.
The age old good and evil and the enemy knows what to say so how could God not know? God hears knows and helps us respond to every situation IF we will listen. 

Joh 8:44  "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45  "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
Joh 8:46  "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
Joh 8:47  "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

[Willow]

Luk 12:11  "When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say;
Luk 12:12  for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

Its not a disjointed conversation our God is very personal and very detailed as you know.
I only put these here not as a accusation against you but to say that every lie is from one place.
The age old good and evil and the enemy knows what to say so how could God not know? God hears knows and helps us respond to every situation IF we will listen. 

Joh 8:44  "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45  "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
Joh 8:46  "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
Joh 8:47  "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God." 

No, Robert, it is not disjointed conversation but it is, in this case, misapplied and out of context Scripture.  He is specifically speaking there of being brought before the synagogue, or in our cases being persecuted for our allegiance to Jesus Christ.  It does not apply to folks who do or do not support the Constitutional right to bear arms.  There are devoted followers of Christ on both sides of that argument and there are a host of non-believers on both sides of that argument.  Equating disagreement with your position to the powers of darkness does a disservice to the real conflict.

We'll drop the discussion.  I'll leave it with simply letting you know that my belief is that for respectful discussion and sense of community within the VRCC some of us need to reduce the frequency and tone of our political/social posting that appear to serve no purpose other than fueling the flame of division.