Final Drive Gear Oil whoops

[Kunkies]

I inadvertently, used 75W-140 full synthetic gear oil, versus what normally is used 75W-90   

Do I need to drain and refill, or go with it?

[Jess from VA]

I don't know.

This says this 75-140...Meets API GL-5 and MT-1, MACK GO-J, SAE J2360, MIL-PRF-2105E(PG-2) and Limited Slip specifications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-75W-140-Synthetic-Gear-Oil-1-Quart/16795247

This one says ..... Max-Gear is recommended for use in truck, motor home/RV and automotive front or rear differentials, manual transmissions, and lower gear units of marine engines that specify use of an API GL-5 or GL-4 fluid. All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials.

I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers.

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-ROY01301-75W140-quart/dp/B000J15THO

[Chrisj CMA]

That's a bit heavier that what needs to be in there.  I'd change it ASAP

[Paladin528]

you would likely find it blows out the vent when its too heavy.  The recommended it a straight 80

[turtle254]

I don't know.

This says this 75-140...Meets API GL-5 and MT-1, MACK GO-J, SAE J2360, MIL-PRF-2105E(PG-2) and Limited Slip specifications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-75W-140-Synthetic-Gear-Oil-1-Quart/16795247

This one says ..... Max-Gear is recommended for use in truck, motor home/RV and automotive front or rear differentials, manual transmissions, and lower gear units of marine engines that specify use of an API GL-5 or GL-4 fluid. All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials.

I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers.

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-ROY01301-75W140-quart/dp/B000J15THO

"I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers."  ??
I use Mobil 1 10w30 car oil ... is this wrong !

[Paladin528]

car oil "MIGHT" be wrong.  if the little circle on the label says "ENERGY CONSERVING" or anything like that then it is wrong and get it out of the bike ASAP.

[¿spoom]

I inadvertently, used 75W-140 full synthetic gear oil, versus what normally is used 75W-90   

Do I need to drain and refill, or go with it?

Yeah, take a quick ride around the block, grab the catch pan and wrench for the plug and get it over with. While it's pretty much a sure bet that nothing was damaged from the original whoopsie, in the long run you don't want to give up the lubrication properties that the original engineers wanted. If these hypoid sets had any kind of known weakness or lubrication issues with the 75/90 or straight 80, then it might make sense to deviate, but they sure seem to last forever with the right stuff, so why risk it. I've got 150k on Mobile1 75/90 full syn, and that's hardly the record. I'd take the 20 minutes and switch it back. 

[Daniel Meyer]

I run this stuff all the time.

[sandy]

The 75W is the viscosity and makes your "mistake" OK to use as long as GL5 is in the rating of the oil. Many people use the 140 stuff and it works just fine.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The 75W is the viscosity and makes your "mistake" OK to use as long as GL5 is in the rating of the oil. Many people use the 140 stuff and it works just fine.

I thought it was like motor oil numbers. The 75 is the viscosity when cold and the second number was the viscosity when hot ?

[Gryphon Rider]

"I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers."  ??
I use Mobil 1 10w30 car oil ... is this wrong !

The most important thing is to make sure the API service rating label does not say "energy conserving."



Viscosity from Valkyrie manual:



According to the manual, 10W30 shouldn't be used above  roughly 88°F.  A better choice, especially in a hot climate, is 10W40 or higher.  I use Mobil1 15W50, even though we don't get Texas temperatures in Alberta.

[Gryphon Rider]

The 75W is the viscosity and makes your "mistake" OK to use as long as GL5 is in the rating of the oil. Many people use the 140 stuff and it works just fine.

I thought it was like motor oil numbers. The 75 is the viscosity when cold and the second number was the viscosity when hot ?

Almost.  Close enough to think of it that way, but what it really means is this:

xxW-yy

xxW - viscosity at 0°F (W for winter, indicating a multi-viscosity oil), behaves like a straight (not multi-viscosity) xx rated oil would at 0°F

-yy - when at operating temperature, it behaves like a straight yy rated oil would if it were at operating temperature.

[Gryphon Rider]

I inadvertently, used 75W-140 full synthetic gear oil, versus what normally is used 75W-90   

Do I need to drain and refill, or go with it?

I run this stuff all the time.

If Daniel (who lives in Texas) says he runs 75W-140, I would be fine also running it.  I don't think there would be negative effects, except, theoretically, slightly worse fuel mileage.

[Motodad71]

I don't know.

This says this 75-140...Meets API GL-5 and MT-1, MACK GO-J, SAE J2360, MIL-PRF-2105E(PG-2) and Limited Slip specifications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-75W-140-Synthetic-Gear-Oil-1-Quart/16795247

This one says ..... Max-Gear is recommended for use in truck, motor home/RV and automotive front or rear differentials, manual transmissions, and lower gear units of marine engines that specify use of an API GL-5 or GL-4 fluid. All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials.

I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers.

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-ROY01301-75W140-quart/dp/B000J15THO

"I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers."  ??
I use Mobil 1 10w30 car oil ... is this wrong !

Nothing "to my knowledge" above 30 weight is energy conserving, what you are running is most certainly energy conserving and I'm shocked your clutch isn't slipping. You need to be running a 40 weight oil whether moto specific or car/diesel oil, only motorcycle specific 30 weight oils should be used in wet clutch bikes.

[Paladin528]

Look for MA or MB in the list of specifications.  if either one or both are there then you are OK for sure.

[Gryphon Rider]

Nothing "to my knowledge" above 30 weight is energy conserving, what you are running is most certainly energy conserving and I'm shocked your clutch isn't slipping. You need to be running a 40 weight oil whether moto specific or car/diesel oil, only motorcycle specific 30 weight oils should be used in wet clutch bikes.

Some 10W-30 oils have friction modifiers that make them unsuitable for wet clutches, and some don't.  Look for the presence or absence of the "ENERGY(RESOURCE) CONSERVING" designation on the bottom of the API medallion; if it's there, don't use the oil with a wet clutch.  If it's not there, feel free to use it (10W-30 oil) in a Valkyrie that won't see above 88° temperatures.

[Motodad71]

Nothing "to my knowledge" above 30 weight is energy conserving, what you are running is most certainly energy conserving and I'm shocked your clutch isn't slipping. You need to be running a 40 weight oil whether moto specific or car/diesel oil, only motorcycle specific 30 weight oils should be used in wet clutch bikes.

Some 10W-30 oils have friction modifiers that make them unsuitable for wet clutches, and some don't.  Look for the presence or absence of the "ENERGY(RESOURCE) CONSERVING" designation on the bottom of the API medallion; if it's there, don't use the oil with a wet clutch.  If it's not there, feel free to use it (10W-30 oil) in a Valkyrie that won't see above 88° temperatures.

Would love to see a list of the non energy conserving car oils at 30 weight, imagine the list would have to be quite small. Anything more than a 30 weight defeats the purpose of being "energy conserving", although oils when we were kids/younger were not energy conserving with friction modifiers like we have been seeing for years.

[Valkpilot]

The oil thread to rule them all.

Seamlessly intertwining rear drive oil and engine oil discussions. 

Woe betides the newbie who stumbles across this and tries to make sense of it.

[Kunkies]

   I thought the exact same thing, and you put it in words.  ValkPilot, thank you for the chuckle!!

Verdict:  I'm going to stick with the 75W-140 gear oil for now, via the PI Sheet on the Valvoline web site I've confirmed it is API GL-5 compliant (thanks Sandy).

[cookiedough]

I would still change it since only like 5.5 ounces or so.

probably correct no harm, no problem, but is pretty easy to undo a few plugs.

[F6Dave]

There was an extensive test of motorcycle oils in a magazine several years ago.  It included laboratory analyses of 22 oils and found that many MC specific oils, including Honda's, contained the friction modifier moly!

I just looked at the GL-1800 shop manual I use for my F6B.  It calls for 10W-30 engine oil, and makes no mention of avoiding 'energy conserving' oils.  With a spec like that I wouldn't be surprised if many, many Goldwing owners have used automotive oils containing friction modifiers.  In spite of this, I haven't heard any complaints about slipping clutches.  I have to wonder if all the dire warnings about moly/friction modifiers are a bit of an urban legend.

[Motodad71]

There was an extensive test of motorcycle oils in a magazine several years ago.  It included laboratory analyses of 22 oils and found that many MC specific oils, including Honda's, contained the friction modifier moly!

I just looked at the GL-1800 shop manual I use for my F6B.  It calls for 10W-30 engine oil, and makes no mention of avoiding 'energy conserving' oils.  With a spec like that I wouldn't be surprised if many, many Goldwing owners have used automotive oils containing friction modifiers.  In spite of this, I haven't heard any complaints about slipping clutches.  I have to wonder if all the dire warnings about moly/friction modifiers are a bit of an urban legend.

Not quite sure it is an urban legend, but many are still confused about synthetic oils too. LOL

[Paladin528]

The Manual Specifies API Service Classification SF or SG.  Anything else should be avoided.  This is shown in the same circle on the container and will likely NOT say ENERGY CONSERVING.

On the Moly.  Yes the oil will contain some Moly but in small amounts.

[Paladin528]

on a further note All Oil API classifications up to and including SH are considered OBSOLETE. At least for use in Automobiles.  We will soon be relegated to using application specific oils at a higher price point.

[F6Dave]

There was an extensive test of motorcycle oils in a magazine several years ago.  It included laboratory analyses of 22 oils and found that many MC specific oils, including Honda's, contained the friction modifier moly!

I just looked at the GL-1800 shop manual I use for my F6B.  It calls for 10W-30 engine oil, and makes no mention of avoiding 'energy conserving' oils.  With a spec like that I wouldn't be surprised if many, many Goldwing owners have used automotive oils containing friction modifiers.  In spite of this, I haven't heard any complaints about slipping clutches.  I have to wonder if all the dire warnings about moly/friction modifiers are a bit of an urban legend.

Not quite sure it is an urban legend, but many are still confused about synthetic oils too. LOL

Yes, that article mentioned how some riders feared that synthetics, as well as moly, would cause clutches to slip.  The article, titled 'Oils Well that Ends Well', is still online.  The detailed analysis of all those oils is compared in several charts.

[Paladin528]

lots of lore about synthetics.  Fact is they have to pass the same tests as Dino oil in order to meet the specification.  They also have to share the same properties.  Synthetic just lasts longer.

[Hooter]

I don't know.

This says this 75-140...Meets API GL-5 and MT-1, MACK GO-J, SAE J2360, MIL-PRF-2105E(PG-2) and Limited Slip specifications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-75W-140-Synthetic-Gear-Oil-1-Quart/16795247

This one says ..... Max-Gear is recommended for use in truck, motor home/RV and automotive front or rear differentials, manual transmissions, and lower gear units of marine engines that specify use of an API GL-5 or GL-4 fluid. All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials.

I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers.

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-ROY01301-75W140-quart/dp/B000J15THO

"I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers."  ??
I use Mobil 1 10w30 car oil ... is this wrong !

Oil thread...."IF" your oil doesn't have a JASO-MA rating don't use it. Anything with a wet clutch should not use regular car oil. (I know there are some that say horse hockey, but it's a no no)  A friend of mine and I were on a 4 day 1000 mile trip. Readied our bikes like usual (I thought) and took off. Roughly 80 miles into the trip his bike was on a roll back and we were headed home.

Come to find out he had changed the oil and used standard 10w-40 Valvoline in his bike. ( it was late in the evening when he changed it and He thought it would be ok, and he knew better!) He smoked the clutch in that amount of time in some minor hills. To each his own, and I don't care what someone uses, but why chance it. It's cheaper to use the right oil than to tear the bike down and replace the clutch.

[Chrisj CMA]

This is a final drive lube issue.  Friction modifiers are essential.  That what GL5 thing is all about.  The energy conserving thing on the certificate lable is for ENGINE OIL only.

Let's try to keep apples with apples

[saddlesore]

The final drive has some small holes that link it to the pinion gear and cup.  My thought would be, would the viscosity affect that part the lubrication ? 

[F6Dave]

I don't know.

This says this 75-140...Meets API GL-5 and MT-1, MACK GO-J, SAE J2360, MIL-PRF-2105E(PG-2) and Limited Slip specifications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-75W-140-Synthetic-Gear-Oil-1-Quart/16795247

This one says ..... Max-Gear is recommended for use in truck, motor home/RV and automotive front or rear differentials, manual transmissions, and lower gear units of marine engines that specify use of an API GL-5 or GL-4 fluid. All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials.

I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers.

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-ROY01301-75W140-quart/dp/B000J15THO

"I know our engine oil must not have friction modifiers."  ??
I use Mobil 1 10w30 car oil ... is this wrong !

Oil thread...."IF" your oil doesn't have a JASO-MA rating don't use it. Anything with a wet clutch should not use regular car oil. (I know there are some that say horse hockey, but it's a no no)  A friend of mine and I were on a 4 day 1000 mile trip. Readied our bikes like usual (I thought) and took off. Roughly 80 miles into the trip his bike was on a roll back and we were headed home.

Come to find out he had changed the oil and used standard 10w-40 Valvoline in his bike. ( it was late in the evening when he changed it and He thought it would be ok, and he knew better!) He smoked the clutch in that amount of time in some minor hills. To each his own, and I don't care what someone uses, but why chance it. It's cheaper to use the right oil than to tear the bike down and replace the clutch.

I've been running automotive oil in my '98 Tourer for 175,000 miles, and in my '99 Interstate for 98,000 miles.  No problems yet!

[Kunkies]

Final update... (this is for ChrisJ  )

Just completed rear-end maint., and after discovering and clearing the weep holes in the pinion cup, I've swapped out the [whoops] 75W-140 weight full synthetic final drive oil with 75W-90 weight.  Although I'm convinced the 75W-140 is fine, my premise is the less viscose final drive oil will seep through the pinion cup and bath the  splines.

Thanks for everyone's input

[Dusty]

There was an extensive test of motorcycle oils in a magazine several years ago.  It included laboratory analyses of 22 oils and found that many MC specific oils, including Honda's, contained the friction modifier moly!

I just looked at the GL-1800 shop manual I use for my F6B.  It calls for 10W-30 engine oil, and makes no mention of avoiding 'energy conserving' oils.  With a spec like that I wouldn't be surprised if many, many Goldwing owners have used automotive oils containing friction modifiers.  In spite of this, I haven't heard any complaints about slipping clutches.  I have to wonder if all the dire warnings about moly/friction modifiers are a bit of an urban legend.

My Yamaha 600 sport bike with a wet clutch lasted a week after  my son put car oil in it. plates were all good when I took it apart but  it would not even move down hill with clutch engaged. Put in a new set of frictions and scrubbed the steels and changed oil and filter. Just like new.

Dusty

[LB]

lots of lore about synthetics.  Fact is they have to pass the same tests as Dino oil in order to meet the specification.  They also have to share the same properties.  Synthetic just lasts longer.

No lure about it... synthetic oil is far superior at handling heat, compared to petroleum oil. It was developed to withstand the extreme temperatures of aircraft jet engines (gas turbine engines) where petroleum oil simply could not.

[Chrisj CMA]

Final update... (this is for ChrisJ  )

Just completed rear-end maint., and after discovering and clearing the weep holes in the pinion cup, I've swapped out the [whoops] 75W-140 weight full synthetic final drive oil with 75W-90 weight.  Although I'm convinced the 75W-140 is fine, my premise is the less viscose final drive oil will seep through the pinion cup and bath the  splines.

Thanks for everyone's input

LOL dont do it for me.  Wont matter much to me what oil you run.  I simply said I would change it if it were my bike.  I dont know enough about oil specs to decide if going that heavy would hurt anything or not. 

[Paladin528]

lots of lore about synthetics.  Fact is they have to pass the same tests as Dino oil in order to meet the specification.  They also have to share the same properties.  Synthetic just lasts longer.

No lure about it... synthetic oil is far superior at handling heat, compared to petroleum oil. It was developed to withstand the extreme temperatures of aircraft jet engines (gas turbine engines) where petroleum oil simply could not.

Careful...Put Jet engine oil in your bike and you wont even make it around the block.  Totally different animal.

[h13man]

Been running 75-140 dino in all my shafties for 10 yrs. I change it about every 2 yrs./7,500 mi.

[Kirknik]

New guy here. Got.confused by this post. Getting ready to Winter store my 98 tour and want to change the final drive first. Some Royal Purple 75-90. Am I good with that?

It does have friction modifiers but at the same time it's gl5 or gl4 rated.
I think I'm fine but this post confused engine oil with final drive oil and don't want to make a mistake in my first time storing the bike.

[Daniel Meyer]

You're fine. Any quality hypoid gear oil in the rear end.

Only have to worry about friction modifiers in the engine oil...