Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« on: June 04, 2018, 09:07:05 AM » |
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 VRCC # 24157 |
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Serk
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 09:14:41 AM » |
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the vote was 7-2. How is that narrow?
I was wondering the same thing and did some research, from SCOTUS blog it was explained thusly: The word "narrow" refers to the breadth of the legal reasoning adopted--which in this case is narrow because it turns on the peculiar facts of this case (e.g., that the relevant conduct occurred in 2012, that the civil rights commission betrayed bias, etc.), and not on sweeping legal rules that would apply in a large number of cases. |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 09:20:22 AM » |
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the vote was 7-2. How is that narrow?
I was wondering the same thing and did some research, from SCOTUS blog it was explained thusly: The word "narrow" refers to the breadth of the legal reasoning adopted--which in this case is narrow because it turns on the peculiar facts of this case (e.g., that the relevant conduct occurred in 2012, that the civil rights commission betrayed bias, etc.), and not on sweeping legal rules that would apply in a large number of cases. Where’s Willow when you need him ? “Passed on narrow grounds” vs. passed on a narrow vote. |
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Robert
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 09:31:17 AM » |
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I hope the decision in Sweet Cakes will be changed or appealed and they can in turn sue for damages and get their 135k back from the state. Good news indeed  As for the slant, of course when even the more liberal judges approved the decision. The media is biased and polluted and would of course slant it in the worst way for Christians. I another decision that is also from the Supreme Court Supreme Court Vacates Decision Ordering Trump Admin To Facilitate Abortions For Illegal Alien Minors |
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 10:03:00 AM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 12:53:26 PM » |
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And ,in general, courts are supposed to rule as narrowly as they can (or have to) to dispose of any individual case. (And not supposed to issue decisions with broad sweeping rules that go well beyond the facts of that individual case). It's called judicial restraint.
On the other hand, when outfits like the ACLU or NRA or other strong lobby finds just the right case with facts that likely cover thousands of like-affected people, then broad sweeping rulings can result. This is why those organizations don't take every case they get to court.... they look for just the right ones to run up the judicial ladder (appeals).
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Bighead
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 08:03:21 PM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16690
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 02:52:12 AM » |
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IMHO, this decision validates the old saying that my rights only go to the point where another's rights begin. IOWs, you can't make me do something that goes against my values and vice versa. This decision sets things the way they should be and also puts some groups seeking special treatment on notice. You are no more special than the next person.
Rams
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Davemn
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 03:24:21 AM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 03:54:31 AM » |
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Constitutional individual free exercise of religion vrs statutory no discrimination laws.
In reviewing the decision, the SCOTUS majority was especially persuaded by the fact that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission showed open hostility toward the baker based on his religious beliefs. (not some wacky, made-up, Church of Ralph beliefs either, some pretty mainstream Christian beliefs)
Zealots who failed to consider other important rights lost (and failed to show it in their official actions and decisions).
It may not be of much precidential value, but State civil rights commissions are on notice that claims of personal religious beliefs may not be rejected out of hand.
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« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 04:01:37 AM by Jess from VA »
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16690
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 04:20:00 AM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. To my knowledge, no religion discriminates against race. This was a discrimination case, was it not? If so, please enlighten me. Yeah, I know this was not directed to me but, I'm curious..... Rams |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Bighead
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 04:21:47 AM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. His business ,his right to refuse his service to anyone. Has nothing to do with black or white. |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Gavin_Sons
Member
Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 05:58:27 AM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. What a stupid question. If if's and buts were candy and nuts....... This had nothing to do with race so why even bring it up? |
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henry 008
Member
Posts: 1538
BRP
willard, oh
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 06:15:16 AM » |
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"His business ,his right to refuse his service to anyone."
from what I understand, he told the "couple" that he would sell them any cake that was already made in the store. he just refused to make them a custom cake that went against his religion.
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Safe Winds... Brother  |
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 06:18:15 AM » |
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Management reserves the right........
Freedom begins with NO
Dan
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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MAD6Gun
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2018, 06:48:02 AM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. What a stupid question. If if's and buts were candy and nuts....... This had nothing to do with race so why even bring it up? Because he is liberal. It always about race. If you disagreed with the last president you were a racist. If you agree with the current president you are a racist. Can't you see that Gavin.jeez.lol. Being gay is not a race. Its a lifestyle. Liberals need to learn that. |
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ChromeDome
Member
Posts: 2175
Aurora, IL.
60 miles West of Chicago!
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2018, 06:52:28 AM » |
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I believe that SCOTUS ruled that the legal proceedings in Colorado had shown hostility to the baker's religious views. It did not rule on the larger question of religious and free-speech objections when refusing to serve lesbian or gay customers.
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trout dude
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 06:54:15 AM » |
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Most Honda shops tell everyone they won't work on there bikes because they are 10 years old
Dose that give us the right to SUE HONDA (NOT)
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northernvalk
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2018, 07:41:33 AM » |
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Most Honda shops tell everyone they won't work on there bikes because they are 10 years old
Dose that give us the right to SUE HONDA (NOT)
??? I have never heard this once, we have owned Honda's as long as I have been alive, almost, born in 80 and our old xl was an 81.......Ours just did the clutch, fork seals and tires on my 95 magna....more than double the "10 year" rule....? ??? |
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 08:02:12 AM » |
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Most Honda shops tell everyone they won't work on there bikes because they are 10 years old
Dose that give us the right to SUE HONDA (NOT)
??? I have never heard this once, we have owned Honda's as long as I have been alive, almost, born in 80 and our old xl was an 81.......Ours just did the clutch, fork seals and tires on my 95 magna....more than double the "10 year" rule....? ??? Canadian dealers must be more friendly.  |
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Wizzard
Member
Posts: 4043
Bald River Falls
Valparaiso IN
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 08:06:45 AM » |
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I believe that SCOTUS ruled that the legal proceedings in Colorado had shown hostility to the baker's religious views. It did not rule on the larger question of religious and free-speech objections when refusing to serve lesbian or gay customers.
You are very correct. They thought the baker was mistreated by the CO legal system. |
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VRCC # 24157 |
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3W-lonerider
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 08:09:33 AM » |
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??? I have never heard this once, we have owned Honda's as long as I have been alive, almost, born in 80 and our old xl was an 81.......Ours just did the clutch, fork seals and tires on my 95 magna....more than double the "10 year" rule....? ???
[/quote]
the local Honda shop in our area will not work on bikes 10 years old or older.
and heres the reason I was told this.
that old of a bike, and iv'e run into it myself working on old bikes.
is because when you try to repair one thing 3 or more other things break. the customer does not wanna pay for the stuff that breaks trying to repair what the bike was brought in for.
so the dealer is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
iv'e worked on several valks and other brands, one in particular was I was doing a tune up on a valk
spark plugs, new orings under the intakes and carb sync.
in the process of getting the spark plug valance covers off, 2 bolts broke in the head.
took me over 3 hours of tedious drilling to not screw the head up trying to drill those bolts out..
customer argued about paying for those extra 3 hours,.
so I,m to the point now that I pick and choose my jobs on bikes.
and if a customer brings me a bike with those sparkplug valance covers on. I make them take those covers off and put them back on. if a bolt breaks, its on them.
I work on heavy equipment and I run into the same thing at work..
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Motodad71
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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 08:25:09 AM » |
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Being gay isn't a lifestyle, is being heterosexual a lifestyle? I believe the SCOTUS got this right, one's rights don't start where another ends, any private business owner will either fail or succeed depending on how many do or do not walk through their doors to spend money. Discrimination, racism and bigotry are all up for interpretation these days, but yeah sometimes it is just plain as day in some situations. The US has a dark past with discrimination based on race and gender, problem is that many still believe it is rampant, or have deep seeded hate and animosity because that is how they were raised or being indoctrinated to believe.
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1997 yellow/black Valkyrie standard "Thor"
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Davemn
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« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2018, 03:16:53 PM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. What a stupid question. If if's and buts were candy and nuts....... This had nothing to do with race so why even bring it up? Because he is liberal. It always about race. If you disagreed with the last president you were a racist. If you agree with the current president you are a racist. Can't you see that Gavin.jeez.lol. Being gay is not a race. Its a lifestyle. Liberals need to learn that. I am NOT a Liberal. I vote Republican 100% of the time. You are wrong. I posed the question to get people to think about discrimination of any kind. BTW, I didn’t vote for either of the idiots that ran for President, I wrote in a Republican. Be careful who you call a Liberal Democrat! |
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Serk
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« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 03:23:56 PM » |
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From my understanding, the issue was NOT that they wouldn't serve gay people. They had no qualms about that and would serve them the same as anyone else.
The problem was they wouldn't make a gay wedding cake.
It's not WHO they wouldn't serve, it's WHAT they wouldn't make.
That'd be like going into McDonalds and having a hissy fit because they won't serve you a Whopper...
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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old2soon
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« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2018, 03:56:32 PM » |
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From my understanding, the issue was NOT that they wouldn't serve gay people. They had no qualms about that and would serve them the same as anyone else.
The problem was they wouldn't make a gay wedding cake.
It's not WHO they wouldn't serve, it's WHAT they wouldn't make.
That'd be like going into McDonalds and having a hissy fit because they won't serve you a Whopper...
Keep uppermost in yer noggin WHO was potus when this went down.  RIDE SAFE. |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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MAD6Gun
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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 06:03:28 PM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. What a stupid question. If if's and buts were candy and nuts....... This had nothing to do with race so why even bring it up? Because he is liberal. It always about race. If you disagreed with the last president you were a racist. If you agree with the current president you are a racist. Can't you see that Gavin.jeez.lol. Being gay is not a race. Its a lifestyle. Liberals need to learn that. I am NOT a Liberal. I vote Republican 100% of the time. You are wrong. I posed the question to get people to think about discrimination of any kind. BTW, I didn’t vote for either of the idiots that ran for President, I wrote in a Republican. Be careful who you call a Liberal Democrat! Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me. If it walks like a duck............... |
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G-Man
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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2018, 08:11:22 AM » |
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Color is easy for the left to divide us on. Religion and religious beliefs and interpretation, not so easy.
I believe it was posted that the gay couple drove past dozens of bakeries on the way to this one. Even crossed state lines. Why?
Remember the vote during the Dem convention to take God out of everything during Obama's second run??? The left wants religion out of everything because it makes everything MORE black and white. It eliminates a lot of he grays. I know sooooo many folks who vote Dem, because they think they should, but share such few beliefs, especially around religion and other social values, where most of them are actually conservative. Many of these folks are on the fence when it comes the social agenda of the left, but if the grays are taken out.......
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Reb
Member
Posts: 2366
Don't threaten me with a good time
Greeneville, TN
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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2018, 09:49:19 AM » |
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Any opinions that Vary Ron would be dead wrong Would your opinion change if this cake was for a black couple? Is Racism a “value”? Seems we should have gotten past that. What a stupid question. If if's and buts were candy and nuts....... This had nothing to do with race so why even bring it up? Because he is liberal. It always about race. If you disagreed with the last president you were a racist. If you agree with the current president you are a racist. Can't you see that Gavin.jeez.lol. Being gay is not a race. Its a lifestyle. Liberals need to learn that. I posed the question to get people to think about discrimination of any kind. Free market system simple solution.... You go to a different cake maker. I'm sure there are plenty of other bakers in the area who would bake a cake for a queer wedding. |
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2022 Honda Goldwing Tour DCT
1999 Honda Valkyrie IS
1997 Honda Valkyrie Standard *Supercharged*
1972 Honda CB350F
1978 Honda CB550K
1968 Honda CL175 Sloper
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2018, 02:03:02 PM » |
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NO ! You can’t have your cake....... Now beat it Too Dan |
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2018, 02:11:47 PM » |
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You want to come to my cake shop and force me to make a gay wedding cake for you?
OK, come to my church and we will (attempt to) exorcise the demons and sin out of you.
No?
Didn't think so.
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Serk
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« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2018, 02:53:55 PM » |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2018, 03:30:29 PM » |
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DirtyDan
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« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2018, 03:54:40 PM » |
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Do it while you can. I did.... it my way
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