I hope each and everyone of those foul men die

[..]

I hope each and everyone of those foul men die long, lingering, excruciating and limb losing deaths.

Those implicit in any cover up should go hang themselves.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/15/report-pennsylvania-priests-abused-over-1000-children.html

The Catholic church system in PA should be shut down.

[JFaje1]

Could not agree with you more, just wondering why you want to go so easy on them.
John

[..]

A nest of pedophiles that needs to be annihilated.

[hubcapsc]

It seems to me that it is silly for celibacy to be required for all (or even most) priests.

Their reasoning is that celibacy is "a special gift of God by which sacred ministers can more easily remain close to
Christ with an undivided heart, and can dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and their neighbour."

That reasoning comes from men... Paul was one of Jesus' 12 disciples, and pretty much most priests are
just some guy from down the street who spent time in seminary. We see over and over again that celibacy
just turns a lot of people into freaks...

Paul said:

1 Corinthians 8-9:
I say to the unmarried and to widows: It is good for them if they remain as I am.
But if they do not have self-control, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with desire.

-Mike

[Willow]

... Paul was one of Jesus' 12 disciples, ...

Double check your info, Mike.   

[hubcapsc]

... Paul was one of Jesus' 12 disciples, ...

Double check your info, Mike.   

D'OH... and I'm reading Acts now too... anywho... we failures ought to do our
best to be Christ-like... we'll all fall short, but I reckon this celibacy thing is going to
kick most people's *** if they try it.

-Mike

[MarkT]

I submit an appropriate sentence might be a long jail term with a 350lb 6'6" cellmate named "Bubba" who is inordinately interested in them dropping the soap.

[csj]

Abstinence makes the Church grow Fondlers.

[..]

Abstinence makes the Church grow Fondlers.

Too soon 

[Psychotic Bovine]

I don't think abstinence has anything to do with it.
After watching To Catch a Predator and similar shows, it's apparent that pedos come from all walks of life.  Many are married.
There are a lot who are teachers, coaches, pastors, preachers, military people, janitors, etc.  It knows no bounds.
But, I do agree it was greatly covered up.  And I think the perps need to be sent to Hell as soon as possible.

[Gavin_Sons]

Maybe we should abolish the catholic religion. Apparently they are passing these practices down through the generations.

[3fan4life]

While not in any way excusing their actions,

The whole celibacy thing does set them up for failure.

Sex is as much of a human need as is food and water.

Some people have the ability to live a celibate life, most do not.  


The scientific part of me is more curious as to what makes them abuse kids.

Were they pedophiles to begin with?

Is their something about the celibacy that turns them into pedophiles?

Are they preying on children because they're targets of opportunity?


The more that can be learned about what causes deviant human behaviour the better the chance of learning how to prevent it in the first place.


I'm all for punishing those that have committed the crimes, but it would be better for all if they could've been prevented before they occurred.
 

[3fan4life]

Maybe we should abolish the catholic religion. Apparently they are passing these practices down through the generations.

I don't think that we should start bashing Catholics.

The Catholic's have done and do a lot of Good in this world.

There is however plenty of room for reform.

Removing the veil of secrecy that sorrounds many aspects of the religion would be a good start.

[Gavin_Sons]

Maybe we should abolish the catholic religion. Apparently they are passing these practices down through the generations.

I don't think that we should start bashing Catholics.

The Catholic's have done and do a lot of Good in this world.

There is however plenty of room for reform.

Removing the veil of secrecy that sorrounds many aspects of the religion would be a good start.

Oh Priest John is a very good man........up until he put my dinger in his mouth.
somewhere higher up someone is teaching this stuff.

[Jess from VA]

I'm with Mike, I think most all these Catholic church problems stem from required celibacy.

It's not natural (and no magical words can ever make it natural).

If God screwed up one thing in creating man (and women), he gave him (and her) too much of a desire to procreate (and it feels too good).

It's not like we're an endangered species.  

However, pedophiles are not created by celibacy alone, it's just that children are easier marks than adults.  Statistical studies would also support a finding that too many gay men enter the priesthood (it has long been an institutional-historical problem).  But requiring celibacy means that priests will continue to act out with easier-mark kids (boys if they're gay), to keep things quiet.  (But it's not working)

Remove the celibacy requirement, or require constant chemical castration at ordination.  If you accept the vow of celibacy, what's the problem with that?

[3fan4life]

Maybe we should abolish the catholic religion. Apparently they are passing these practices down through the generations.

I don't think that we should start bashing Catholics.

The Catholic's have done and do a lot of Good in this world.

There is however plenty of room for reform.

Removing the veil of secrecy that sorrounds many aspects of the religion would be a good start.

Oh Priest John is a very good man........up until he put my dinger in his mouth.
somewhere higher up someone is teaching this stuff.

I don't believe that it is something that is being "Taught" at any level.

I do believe that the shroud of secrecy and the continual effort to keep it swept under the rug has led to an envirionment that makes it much too easy to occur. 

[Gavin_Sons]

Maybe we should abolish the catholic religion. Apparently they are passing these practices down through the generations.

I don't think that we should start bashing Catholics.

The Catholic's have done and do a lot of Good in this world.

There is however plenty of room for reform.

Removing the veil of secrecy that sorrounds many aspects of the religion would be a good start.

Oh Priest John is a very good man........up until he put my dinger in his mouth.
somewhere higher up someone is teaching this stuff.

I don't believe that it is something that is being "Taught" at any level.

I do believe that the shroud of secrecy and the continual effort to keep it swept under the rug has led to an envirionment that makes it much too easy to occur. 

It is being taught by someone. There have been too many Priests charged with this just to be a isolated incident.

[Robert]

It is being taught by someone. There have been too many Priests charged with this just to be a isolated incident.

How about the same spirit?


While here on earth they should be locked up, but I wonder what the punishment will be when they die, since they represented the Lord and caused harm to His children.

[G-Man]

Why isn't the gov't getting involved?  Why no FBI investigation?

If the janitors of the Chucky Cheese places were doing this there'd be no more Chucky Cheese, RIGHT?

I don't want there to be no more church, but every single one of them who touched a child, and every single one of them who knew about and either did nothing or did something to cover it up, needs to face all of us and beg for our forgiveness as they are being shackled and lead away to prison.  

This is not new, BTW.  I'm in my 50's and have heard about this going on all my life.  Why, in GOD's name do we allow it to continue?  Where is the perp walk?  Where's the humiliation these men deserve?  

[Chrisj CMA]

... Paul was one of Jesus' 12 disciples, ...

Double check your info, Mike.   

Just not one of the original 12 designated.  But Paul (Saul of Tarsus) surely met the requirements to be called an Apostle and thus referred to himself as one.  There were like 20 Apostles including the 12 original ones (13 if you count Judas' replacement.

[Willow]

... Paul was one of Jesus' 12 disciples, ...

Double check your info, Mike.   

Just not one of the original 12 designated.  But Paul (Saul of Tarsus) surely met the requirements to be called an Apostle and thus referred to himself as one.  There were like 20 Apostles including the 12 original ones (13 if you count Judas' replacement.

20 Apostles?    The term apostle means one sent.  There are those who extend the title even to people living today, but most limit it to the eleven closest called disciples and the addition of Paul.     

No argument on the apostleship of Paul.  I wouldn't even have a problem of stretching it to "one of the original apostles".  Mike used the term 12 disciples which implies those followers of Christ during His earthly ministry.  Paul was not a member of that group.

[DirtyDan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

Dan

[hubcapsc]

There are a lot who are teachers, coaches, pastors, preachers, military people, janitors, etc.

and I'm just someone bloviating on the innernet, but we don't really have
(that I know of) a military problem, or a janitor problem... we do have
a priest problem.

-Mike

[Willow]

There are about 80 million Catholics in the United States with approximately 37,500 priests.  The media does like to make a very big deal of one of these 37,500 being exposed.  They don't tend to report on every coach, janitor, or teacher who is accused.

We need to be careful not to cast responsibility upon the entire Catholic Church or even a generalization upon the 37,500 priests.  It is still a very, very small percentage that have been accused.  The vast majority of the priests do seem to handle celibacy as intended.

Cover up is not acceptable, but then the news media generally doesn't report on what is done as a result of the accusations.  Pedophilia is not acceptable under any circumstances.

We do have bit of a problem with the logic of our culture.  The culture at large has accepted that people who have a desire to experience sex with members of the same gender are genetically infused with that desire and thus it is natural and acceptable.  What are we going to do when a pedophile presents the claim that he (or she) was born that way?     

[Robert]

So I agree with the stand against the church pedophiles but how about those in government and Hollywood pedophile and trafficking situation?

Does anyone think of using the whole name Roman Catholic Church and find out whats happening at the Vatican.

[Gryphon Rider]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about them getting justly punished in this life.

Don't get me wrong, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law with due process, but there are many who have committed crimes for which they would never be able to endure suffering equivalent to the suffering they have caused.  Take Hitler or Stalin, for example, who were responsible for the torture of thousands and deaths of millions, yet the maximum sentence they could be given is a single life of being tortured and a single execution at the end of it.

God is a god of perfect justice, and in the afterlife these men will be punished in accordance with their sin.  If Jesus says, "¹but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea," how much more harshly does He look at those who plan and execute their evil against children?  And this is only considering the sin of man against man; God looks even more harshly at sin against Himself.  King David, who committed adultery, then murdered a man to cover it up, rightly said, "²Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight..."  It's not that he didn't sin against others, but that his sin against God makes that terrible sin pale in comparison.

There is much in the Bible that teaches that those in spiritual leadership and those with more knowledge of God and His word will be more greatly held to account than those with less spiritual responsibility and knowledge.

I do think it is extremely important for the sake of the church and of the victims and their families that all involved are brought to justice, and that the church's system is shaken up and policies put in place to prevent future abuse as much as possible.  I also think that preventing clergy from marrying contributes to the problem, but the root cause is man's heart:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.” - Jeremiah 17:9-10

The church (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc.) would do well to emulate God's standard for selecting men to serve:

But this is the one to whom I will look:
    he who is humble and contrite in spirit
    and trembles at my word.
- Isaiah 66:2, ESV

¹Matthew 18:6, ESV
²Psalm 51:4, ESV

[Chrisj CMA]

... Paul was one of Jesus' 12 disciples, ...

Double check your info, Mike.  

Just not one of the original 12 designated.  But Paul (Saul of Tarsus) surely met the requirements to be called an Apostle and thus referred to himself as one.  There were like 20 Apostles including the 12 original ones (13 if you count Judas' replacement.

20 Apostles?    The term apostle means one sent.  There are those who extend the title even to people living today, but most limit it to the eleven closest called disciples and the addition of Paul.    

No argument on the apostleship of Paul.  I wouldn't even have a problem of stretching it to "one of the original apostles".  Mike used the term 12 disciples which implies those followers of Christ during His earthly ministry.  Paul was not a member of that group.

One sent. Generally accepted to mean BY CHRIST himself. Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that

According to Matthew, the "twelve" disciples were all Apostles.  All apostles are disciples not all disciples are apostles

[bscrive]

This all fine and dandy if you believe in God and his judgement.  For me, I would just like to see them get a bullet in their head for the damage that they caused to the children. 

[Serk]

Line 'em up, and.... well....

[Robert]

Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that today

UM, I know a few that have seen Christ or claim to have and from their testimonies I tend to believe them.

[Jess from VA]

Line 'em up, and.... well....

No, I'm not putting my finger in there.  (or anything else)

[Robert]

No, I'm not putting my finger in there. 

 

[3fan4life]

Maybe we should abolish the catholic religion. Apparently they are passing these practices down through the generations.

I don't think that we should start bashing Catholics.

The Catholic's have done and do a lot of Good in this world.

There is however plenty of room for reform.

Removing the veil of secrecy that sorrounds many aspects of the religion would be a good start.

Oh Priest John is a very good man........up until he put my dinger in his mouth.
somewhere higher up someone is teaching this stuff.

I don't believe that it is something that is being "Taught" at any level.

I do believe that the shroud of secrecy and the continual effort to keep it swept under the rug has led to an envirionment that makes it much too easy to occur. 

It is being taught by someone. There have been too many Priests charged with this just to be a isolated incident.

I never said nor implied that it was an isolated incident.

[Gryphon Rider]

Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that today

UM, I know a few that have seen Christ or claim to have and from their testimonies I tend to believe them.

That's certainly not my first inclination.

[Robert]

Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that today

UM, I know a few that have seen Christ or claim to have and from their testimonies I tend to believe them.

That's certainly not my first inclination.

Yes, but I talked to many and most see Jesus in their dreams but a few have recounted stories of Him appearing to them sometimes at the foot of a bed or in the room they were in. I had one Iranian woman she was in Iran at the time that Jesus appeared to her in her dream and she didnt know who He was at first. A beautiful story and kind of funny also and today she exhibits works consistent with salvation. She also knows the Lord, you can tell when someone speaks if they know God or not.

I have had a few recount that God actually talked to them and the fear and stories were consistent in each. They said it sounded like a thousand trumpets all playing at once. The messages were varied but all were changed by the experience.

How can you see Jesus or hear God and not be changed?

As for the clergy that destroyed lives punishment never seems to get the satisfaction for the lives they have destroyed. In Nazi Germany they made the Germans look at the bodies and that Hilter dug the graves for and made them look and see the travesty that they wrought. Maybe seeing the destruction of the lives subjected to abuses along with jail would be something to think about.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Didn’t take long to drag Clinton into this. I’m kind of surprised you haven’t blamed Obama yet . 

[Chrisj CMA]

Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that today

UM, I know a few that have seen Christ or claim to have and from their testimonies I tend to believe them.

Seen in the FLESH like able to touch, converse with like two actual people.  Christ has not come back in the flesh since he left the Apostles in the 1st century

[Willow]

Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that today

UM, I know a few that have seen Christ or claim to have and from their testimonies I tend to believe them.

Seen in the FLESH like able to touch, converse with like two actual people.  Christ has not come back in the flesh since he left the Apostles in the 1st century

The problem that raises is that it excludes Paul of Tarsus.

By the way, I don't agree with Robert.  This is only a response to your definition.

[John Schmidt]

Line 'em up, and.... well....

Is that what's known as a tally whacker? 

[Chrisj CMA]

Most hold that one must have seen the resurrected Christ to be an apostle. Certainly no one today can claim that today

UM, I know a few that have seen Christ or claim to have and from their testimonies I tend to believe them.

Seen in the FLESH like able to touch, converse with like two actual people.  Christ has not come back in the flesh since he left the Apostles in the 1st century

The problem that raises is that it excludes Paul of Tarsus.

By the way, I don't agree with Robert.  This is only a response to your definition.

The problem that raises is that it excludes Paul of Tarsus.

Ya, technically correct but his experience on the road to Damascus is close enough for me