biometric screening results at work

[cookiedough]

anyone ever have to pass a certain % point to get decent insurance rates vs. way too high rates taken out of your paycheck?

I am on the bubble as far as glucose and BMI and body fat content (rest is fine)  since not what they call a 'fit' ideal person.  Last one I did in 2016 for a job they gave me 4 out of 12 points for glucose being 112 (needs to be 110 to get 8 points) and ZERO out of 6 points for body fat content and 1 out of 6 for BMI.   

Yah, 5'10" and 265lbs. is considered morbidly obese in today's modern era of skinny people.. but still able to do everything I could in my 20's at 5'10" and 210lbs. just a slower pace is all...
 
I was 200lbs. in high school same height and did not consider that obese and guessing not many of us are the same weight as we once were in high school...

[ridingron]

I thought the point of group insurance was for the young and the fit to offset the older and less healthy of the group. Now it seems it is only about the numbers of people in the group.

[cookiedough]

needless to say, I am on the bubble between very affordable bi-weekly deductions vs. 4x's outlandish the price bi-weekly.  My body fat and BMI score is either a 0 or 1 out of possible 6 points which is the difference between affordable vs. barely affordable bi-weekly payroll deductions.  The rest of my results besides glucose over 110 just barely is what is the difference.  These biometric screenings are way too heavily set on BMI and body fat results and I believe are done by skinny people...

It seems you have to be say 5'10" and 180lbs. to be considered 'ideal' weight which I was not even in 9th grade.   

[Challenger]

I didn't know they could use your health screening against you for premium evaluation. We had yearly health screenings and received scores. If you got a healthy score you were given $200.00 cash. Also available to spouses. If you didn't get a healthy score, you you were given all sorts of reading material and advise on what to do to get healthy. It did not effect the Ins premiums.

[Serk]

I didn't know they could use your health screening against you for premium evaluation. We had yearly health screenings and received scores. If you got a healthy score you were given $200.00 cash. Also available to spouses. If you didn't get a healthy score, you you were given all sorts of reading material and advise on what to do to get healthy. It did not effect the Ins premiums.

Technically they don't use it against you for your premiums. What they do is jack the premiums sky high for everyone, and then give you a DISCOUNT if you have the health numbers of a healthy 18 year old all star running back.

So how's that healthcare working out for ya'? Affordable yet? 

[Daniel Meyer]

I have to pass the stats of a 20-year old athlete or pay close to $6000/year extra in "lifestyle surcharges"...

That puts me at around $27 grand premiums and deductibles for 2019.

If I was hourly I'd have to get paid $12/hr just for my health insurance...

Is it affordable yet?

[Beardo]

I have to pass the stats of a 20-year old athlete or pay close to $6000/year extra in "lifestyle surcharges"...

That puts me at around $27 grand premiums and deductibles for 2019.

If I was hourly I'd have to get paid $12/hr just for my health insurance...

Is it affordable yet?

Wow.

Couple questions..not looking to start a debate on health care...this is just a Canadian curious about your system...do most employers down there have heath insurance that would cover all these premiums and deductibles?  Or do you still have some premiums even if you are employer insured? 

Are your premiums based on your income at all, or just on their interpretation of your health/risk factors?

[carolinarider09]

I retired earlier this year.  When I was working, the employee health care "premium" was covered by my employer.  It was additional for coverage of my wife.  It should be noted that my employer was big enough that they were self ensured only depending on an outside firm to management the flow of money and claims.

Premiums, as least as I remember it, were not based on age or the employees health.  We did have access to an on site gym that I did use fairly regularly and we had the usual health fairs to make us aware of health care issues.

There was a deductible that had to be meet before the coverage sort of kicked in but some things like "normal" check ups were covered.

We also had access to an HSA (Health Care Savings Account).  You could contribute X dollars (I forget the amount) to the account each year before taxes.  That could be used to pay deductibles.  

If we earned a bonus at the end of the year, it was paid out the next year and we could contribute a portion of that bonus (there was a dollar limit) to the HSA.

In theory, the bonus could cover the yearly deductibles for the average worker.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have to pass the stats of a 20-year old athlete or pay close to $6000/year extra in "lifestyle surcharges"...

That puts me at around $27 grand premiums and deductibles for 2019.

If I was hourly I'd have to get paid $12/hr just for my health insurance...

Is it affordable yet?

Wow.

Couple questions..not looking to start a debate on health care...this is just a Canadian curious about your system...do most employers down there have heath insurance that would cover all these premiums and deductibles?  Or do you still have some premiums even if you are employer insured? 

Are your premiums based on your income at all, or just on their interpretation of your health/risk factors?

I will try to answer that the best I can. Hopefully it won’t start another healthcare debate. In short, it is all over the map. Some employers provide no insurance, some provide great insurance. As far as I’m aware none of the “employer healthcare” is based on income. When “Obamacare” was enacted some of the inequities were tried to be alleviated, such as previous illnesses and such. Personally I have no problem with these health/risks being evaluated and used that are self inflicted. If a person drinks and drives and has an accident his insurance will and should go up. Why should the market subsidize people who smoke, overeat, do drugs ?

[Daniel Meyer]

I have to pass the stats of a 20-year old athlete or pay close to $6000/year extra in "lifestyle surcharges"...

That puts me at around $27 grand premiums and deductibles for 2019.

If I was hourly I'd have to get paid $12/hr just for my health insurance...

Is it affordable yet?

Wow.

Couple questions..not looking to start a debate on health care...this is just a Canadian curious about your system...do most employers down there have heath insurance that would cover all these premiums and deductibles?  Or do you still have some premiums even if you are employer insured? 

Are your premiums based on your income at all, or just on their interpretation of your health/risk factors?

Most larger employers have insurance if you are full-time. There are tax penalties if they don't.

Employer pays part, basically pre-tax, and I pay the rest. Employer policies are *group* policies that used to be regulated by the particular laws in your state. Now the ACA (Obamacare) overruled a lot of that. My premiums are adjusted based on my income (employer charges lower income employees less) but the target is 25% (that's actually in the legislation). They technically cannot adjust group policy rates on your risk factors, but can apply "lifestyle surcharges" and in fact are encouraged to do so. THOSE penalties aren't defined and neither are the standards so they can be excessive.

Some employers are better than others at covering the costs. Mine's an early adopter of ass-hole-ness...

Once I pay the price, the coverage is reasonably good...but the issue then is, the federal government labels it a "Cadillac plan" and hits it with a 15% tax, which of course, I get to pay.

Also I can't really shop around for a plan, as if I decline the employer coverage and qualify for it, they get hit with a tax penalty...the defacto result of that is you get to "explore other career opportunities".

[Beardo]

Interesting. Thanks for the replies guys.

So your average middle class type job would have employer provided insurance then?

Did I read that correctly Dan?...your employer has health insurance for you and you still pay that much in premiums??

[Daniel Meyer]

Interesting. Thanks for the replies guys.

So your average middle class type job would have employer provided insurance then?

Did I read that correctly Dan?...your employer has health insurance for you and you still pay that much in premiums??

Yes, it's insurance for me and the wife. That number is premiums, deductible, and surcharges. My deductible is $8500 and they pay ZERO until I hit it.

But yes, the stated target of ACA is 25% of household income for private insurance/deductible, and also for medicare/deducts/supplements when you hit retirement age.

And there are those that have it worse than me.

[Valker]

The ACA increased my deductibles from $1000 to $6000, raised my premiums by $300/month, took away the doctor I had been seeing-replacing him with someone who accepted their plan, and told me this was 'affordable' for a school teacher. Screw the ACA and those who support(ed) it. It has ruined my healthcare.

[cookiedough]

what most companies are doing around me are attempting to hire seasonals/temps UNDER 30 hours per week per year so as to NOT offer them company health insurance.  Is sad,  but more and more companies are going that route.

chewing/smoking is the worst either get 18 points for non tobacco use or ZERO points no in-between and luckily I do not smoke/chew otherwise no one would pass their companies biometric screenings impossible to do.  An outside agency does the testing based upon a chart setup for all kinds of things regardless if otherwise healthy or not like waist vs. hip measurements even.  Last place I worked who did this the employee's lied stating did not smoke and have no no idea how that test for smoke vs. non smoking works?

Just ticks me off these 'outside' biometric so-called experts put so much weight on BMI and body fat content vs. REAL tangible results of bloodwork which overall is fine except glucose needs to be 110 or lower vs. me 112-118ish, not diabetic but gotta watch it.

[Daniel Meyer]

what most companies are doing around me are attempting to hire seasonals/temps UNDER 30 hours per week per year so as to NOT offer them company health insurance.  Is sad,  but more and more companies are going that route.

chewing/smoking is the worst either get 18 points for non tobacco use or ZERO points no in-between and luckily I do not smoke/chew otherwise no one would pass their companies biometric screenings impossible to do.  An outside agency does the testing based upon a chart setup for all kinds of things regardless if otherwise healthy or not like waist vs. hip measurements even.  Last place I worked who did this the employee's lied stating did not smoke and have no no idea how that test for smoke vs. non smoking works?

Just ticks me off these 'outside' biometric so-called experts put so much weight on BMI and body fat content vs. REAL tangible results of bloodwork which overall is fine except glucose needs to be 110 or lower vs. me 112-118ish, not diabetic but gotta watch it.

For me:
BMI must be in range (I should weigh less than 175 LOL!)
Fasting glucose < 99
BP 120 over 80 or lower.
All cholesterol specs in spec, except HDL which must be over 50.
No nicotine exposure of any kind (there is a test).

[cookiedough]

what most companies are doing around me are attempting to hire seasonals/temps UNDER 30 hours per week per year so as to NOT offer them company health insurance.  Is sad,  but more and more companies are going that route.

chewing/smoking is the worst either get 18 points for non tobacco use or ZERO points no in-between and luckily I do not smoke/chew otherwise no one would pass their companies biometric screenings impossible to do.  An outside agency does the testing based upon a chart setup for all kinds of things regardless if otherwise healthy or not like waist vs. hip measurements even.  Last place I worked who did this the employee's lied stating did not smoke and have no no idea how that test for smoke vs. non smoking works?

Just ticks me off these 'outside' biometric so-called experts put so much weight on BMI and body fat content vs. REAL tangible results of bloodwork which overall is fine except glucose needs to be 110 or lower vs. me 112-118ish, not diabetic but gotta watch it.

For me:
BMI must be in range (I should weigh less than 175 LOL!)
Fasting glucose < 99
BP 120 over 80 or lower.
All cholesterol specs in spec, except HDL which must be over 50.
No nicotine exposure of any kind (there is a test).

Yep,  similar scenarios of biometric screening have to get say 70 or 75 points (about 75%) in order to get 4x's cheaper bi-weekly payroll deductions.  I would not mind if say double the amount taken out of my paycheck, but 4 times the amount is insane.  Something that I have to consider when attempting to negotiate hourly salary pay. 

BMI and body fat does not necessarily mean you are in horrible shape and should not weight that heavily on biometric screenings for jobs.  More and more companies are doing that around me thus for most of us as we age, those biometric results favor younger age 20 and 30's kids.  Then, they hire those 25 year olds who either gain 1 year experience and quit for bigger and better things or are lazy and do zippo all day long playing on the internet or cell phone - BEEN THERE DONE THAT DOZENS OF TIMES!

[Jess from VA]

My insurance plan has invited me to take part in a free screening (several times).

They even offered me a modest bribe to do so.

I throw them in the trash, because I know that besides the modest bribe, I will likely lose benefits or pay higher premiums after my screening (and get nagged at by strangers).

I did not tell them to kiss my ass, because no matter how good that would make me feel and how much they deserve it, that too would probably result in me being put on the group W bench (Alice's Restaurant) or in some other undesirable category.

I keep them in the dark, and don't tell them sh!t.  But they get paid right and regular every month (both health ins, and part B medicare).  

The whole thing stinks of organized crime and extortion.   But that is the nature of all insurance.  Though health is the worst of the lot.

Question of the day:  How come whenever the subject of health insurance comes up, so does my blood pressure, respiration, heart rate and anger level?   That's not healthy.   

[¿spoom]

I have to pass the stats of a 20-year old athlete or pay close to $6000/year extra in "lifestyle surcharges"...

That puts me at around $27 grand premiums and deductibles for 2019.

If I was hourly I'd have to get paid $12/hr just for my health insurance...

Is it affordable yet?

Wow.

Couple questions..not looking to start a debate on health care...this is just a Canadian curious about your system...do most employers down there have heath insurance that would cover all these premiums and deductibles?  Or do you still have some premiums even if you are employer insured?  

Are your premiums based on your income at all, or just on their interpretation of your health/risk factors?

I'll try and give a quick synopsis, and welcome any corrections that may be warranted. It's difficult to keep politics out of it because in the US, healthcare IS politics, but I promise to try.
Around 150 years ago, US healthcare was pretty simple-whether you were dying from cancer, stepping on a rusty nail, or had been shot, $20 or so would cover your care until death. Cutting something off, keeping you warm or icing you down, and eventually perhaps giving you as much laudanum as needed to let you die quietly, but in the end you were going to die and it was going to come quickly. If you had no money, at least they could ask relatives to chip in, take over your horse, or just shrug and accept the loss.
100 years later, lots more things could be cured, and waaaay more things could be played with to where even though not cured, you could live months instead of days. Insurance became a player in the health industry as it had long before in ships, trade and other big ticket items. The more the impending $$$ loss, the more it made sense to buy insurance. Most people bought insurance against catastrophic bills, and paid for the "normal" maintenance themselves. Fall off a roof and do more damage than a simple fracture, have a stroke, have a gall bladder out, etc. your insurance paid for most of it. You kept the cost of your insurance low by having a policy where you bought your own aspirin, paid for your yearly physical, eyeglasses, whatever, the same way you didn't expect your car/bike insurance to pay for a new battery or replace a worn tire, and if you dropped a bike and broke a mirror off, you bought a new mirror.
Healthcare insurance was so inexpensive that it was an inexpensive wage perk and something businesses could use to attract and keep workers, and way cheaper than a monetary raise in many cases. As medical bills soared from new treatment and technologies, insurance eventually became a very large expense and was often dropped by small companies, while many public and large industry unions used various methods to keep wealthy employers (or taxpayer supplied funding) providing top shelf policies and coverages or risk strikes or closing down. There were usually super expensive plans where employees contributed less than 10% of the actual cost. There were some employees just a decade ago where the employer paid out healthcare premiums equal over ¼ of the employee's wage. In smaller companies as well as many large and public ones, the cost of insurance keep rising so fast that employees had to keep paying much higher contributions, but always less than the actual cost, and the company cost was not taxable as income to the employees. People working for themselves were liable for 100% of their own insurance, and could write off some or all of the premiums against their incomes (not their tax bill). Your coverage was whatever you selected, and could pay for. Around 15 years ago I paid around $500/month premiums with $3k deductible, basic dental and coverage for everything but electives and much more than a yearly physical. Most policies had a lifetime payout cap so that the sickest folks could eventually be thrown off coverage and be on welfare care or nothing.
Then Came the Affordable Health Care Act "Obamacare" "ACA" whatever. It was a very different approach. Insurance was to be purchased from the same private insurance companies, but through a government exchange and only with "approved" coverages. Basically, policies had to cover everything, and I mean everything. From drug/alcohol/stress counseling, preventative care, preexisting conditions, you name it. Pretty sure my policy had to cover ovarian cancer. If you chose to keep a current, partial coverage non-conforming insurance (and could find a place to buy it, since many companies dropped non-conforming policies) you could, but you'd be fined for non-compliance with the ACA. It started out with small fines but was supposed to steadily increase to possibly thousands, based on % of income. Short ACA story was the price of insurance shot up because of the coverage, and based on income, you could get a yearly subsidy to pay some or all of your policy premiums. Basic wealth distribution in action. Mine went up to $1100/month in 4 short years. Nothing was done to REDUCE costs, not even bargaining drug costs from US mfrs. like Canada does, and no plan to make EVERYBODY have some skin in the game like the Canadian consumption taxes, and no simple laws like the UK (and others) to make the loser pay for malpractice suits, almost eliminating ambulance chaser and frivolous suits.
Recently, the fines for non-compliant policies or not buying coverage have been dropped so that folks that have to pay for all their care can try and find cheaper policies based on coverage, or opt out of having any care. The whole thing from start to finish has been a bad joke on top of a worse joke, and in the meantime, national lawmakers have great lifetime health insurance even after a single term in office, regardless of performance. No incentive to do anything but posture for re-election and accept medical lobby money for a job well done.
I've simplified it as best I felt I could, but it's like writing "what was WW2" in 500 words or less.

Edit; for the most part, if your employer offers to pay for all or part of your insurance, they get to call the tune for what it is and what it costs. You get to chose to buy your own, I suppose, or get a different job. Larger unions like automakers can usually bargain for super good policies, but more and more, those huge dollar policies have been paid for with job losses. Entire factories have simply been shut down and moved to Mexico and/or overseas, or smaller divisions of subassemblies have gone to small low-paying domestic and foreign supplier (think Delphi) I worked for a company 20years ago where I was paid very well as an automation tech, but the line workers made maybe $10 to start, producing parts like door & window switches that GM employees who made triple that, snapped it into a door panel and  plugged it into a harness.      
        

[..]

Medicare is just as f'ed up.

Based on my paltry earnings I pay $134 a month (I know, I know it's a pittance but so are my retirement earnings).

Along with that I bought Part A and B to cover the gaps in Medicare. Gaps in Medicare? What? Surely not! Govt can't get it right! Shocker.

My original insurer dropped me when I moved. Even though I moved IN STATE. Even though when I looked for a Dr. in my new zip code using the dropping insurer they had some choices listed. Inefficient tossers.

The new insurer I chose as the best of the bunch offered gives me less for a LOT more $.

The whole system is completely screwed up and I believe will result in a single payer if the Govt is willing to radically rein in the many companies benefiting from the deliberate confusion caused by the ACA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jzbztqJ-IQ

And the slack jawed droolers still voted for the lies.

I hope they too are getting hit in the wallet.

[Beardo]

Every system has faults and good parts. I don’t think a “best” system actually exists...just varying levels of bad to ok to pretty good. Thanks for helping me better understand yours, spoom. We hear horror stories about your system, you hear the same about ours. The truth is usually lost.

[Willow]

... employees had to keep paying much higher contributions, but always less than the actual cost, and the company cost was not taxable as income to the employees.
...

As an employee with the employer paying poart (usually 50% or better) of the healthcare premium, my contribution was always done with pre-tax (not taxed as income) dollars.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Every system has faults and good parts. I don’t think a “best” system actually exists...just varying levels of bad to ok to pretty good. Thanks for helping me better understand yours, spoom. We hear horror stories about your system, you hear the same about ours. The truth is usually lost.

[¿spoom]

... employees had to keep paying much higher contributions, but always less than the actual cost, and the company cost was not taxable as income to the employees.
...

As an employee with the employer paying poart (usually 50% or better) of the healthcare premium, my contribution was always done with pre-tax (not taxed as income) dollars.

Not sure what you mean, was this recently? I worked in heavy & medium industry from 1974 to around '03 or '04. Always contributed a small % towards my company-supplied insurance. It never figured in on income taxes. During about 5 of the last 15 years I was in a small (under 10 person) shop where I was treated as a consultant, being paid a flat weekly rate from which I withheld all taxes both sides of SS, and paid 100% for my own healthcare insurance. Then in my own business to the present, still paying for everything, obviously. During that last 15 or so years I could enter the cost of my insurance premiums on my itemized deductions towards reducing my reported income, if that's what you're referring to?    

[¿spoom]

Every system has faults and good parts. I don’t think a “best” system actually exists...just varying levels of bad to ok to pretty good. Thanks for helping me better understand yours, spoom. We hear horror stories about your system, you hear the same about ours. The truth is usually lost.

I don't hear much bad about Canada's except for complaints about waits, especially non life threatening stuff. I figure we have a lot more people in the US with insurance that they can't actually afford to use, waiting far longer. The US really has no system, it's an embarrassment to the civilized world that neither side politically has done squat when it comes to accepting that healthcare cannot be paid for individually if you get/stay sick, and most of the country lives in fear of the unknown wiping them out. Even our employers never know how much they'll be subsidized, and why they are handicapped in competition with other country's where healthcare isn't dumped off on the employers. Many folks' last year on earth in the US can have a medical bill equaling every dime they earned in their entire life. Obamacare bought insurance, not healthcare, where instead of paying for services used, it paid insurance premiums.
As an eample, France didn't go to socialized medicine until after WW2 when they really had no choice. The country was in rubble, most industry was gone, and people had no way to pay for care. The government took everything over. Similar timing in England. The US (like Canada) left the war with barely a scratch as far as industry and infrastructure, and a smoking World lined up to make 1950's America so unbelievable profitable producing much of the world's goods that nobody seemed to pay any attention to how healthcare was changing.  

[Beardo]

Our wait times can be long for something like a new knee or hip. Even an MRI for an elective surgery can be 6 months or more. My son badly dislocated his shoulder requiring surgery, the MRI was going to be 6 months. We asked the surgeon if the MRI was really necessary, he said he could just go old school and see what’s exactly wrong when he gets in there...so that’s what he did. He had a pretty good idea what was going to be needed. The surgery was done a few weeks later. Some provinces have opened up private MRIs that you can pay for. Mine hasn’t.

Waits at the ER can be bad, but if it’s serious, you get in quickly. Too often you have people going to the ER for a fever or a flu, causing more delays than necessary. I’d love a $50 (or whatever) per visit fee at the least to make people think about maybe going to their family doctor the next day to free up the ERs.

We’ll never go broke to pay for a serious condition (aside from our taxes...which, by the sounds of things, are still less than your premiums), but you may wait a year for that shiny new hip.

[..]

Please don't hold up the UK NHS as a shining example of Govt run health care.

The system is screwed up beyond belief. Which is why thereare  a number of private health insurance options along with a growing network of private hospitals.

Some of thousands of care refusals.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8208958/Patients-denied-treatment-as-NHS-makes-cutbacks-Telegraph-can-disclose.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/mums-heartbreak-nhs-refuses-fund-12199640

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5889409/The-children-left-agony-NHS-refuses-tonsils.html

[..]

Let's also not forget that UK NHS is NOT free.

[..]

French health care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

[Robert]

BMI is a sham since it has no bearing on actual fat content of the body and no relative worth as a standard. So like everything lately with insurance they stack the deck and charge you on a mostly worthless measurement. The fact that McCain torpedoed the removal of the health care has cost us dearly. When I was training my bmi by standard measures was way off the scale but by measurements of body fat I was at 18 percent body fat.

Its a formula thats all its, one that was made for those looking to lose weight also. No standard formula can encompass all the variations of the human body since there are so many factors to consider. The insurance companies use it as the predictor of illness and cost when it has little bearing on either given hereditary factors and that sometimes to skinny is worse than over weight.

There is a another problem for small businesses since Obamacare changed the laws if you have under a certain number of employees you cannot receive a discount or get group insurance for you and your employees. Putting small businesses into the most expensive tier of insurance along with most of their workers.

Obama care is basically worthless, since the coverage is not good the premiums high and the deductibles climb every year. If you pay 2500.00 a month have a deductible of 10k and a sliding scale deductible on top of that and are healthy I wonder when if every insurance will pay for anything related to health. When you are out 30,000.00 a year in medical/insurance costs without a problem or illness.

I hear the problem will be non existent in California for the illegals though since they are extending health care to them for free.

[¿spoom]

Please don't hold up the UK NHS as a shining example of Govt run health care...

I did not do so, nor would I ever say ANY healthcare system is free. I have a good friend in S. Benfleet who is a retired Ford Engineer. He's explained it to me in detail. As the years have gone on, the UK system has acquired a higher and higher % of foreign doctors and patients, and the demand load has expanded faster than the funding. As with Medicare and the VA, there's a difference between an unworkable system and one being run by incompetents or the uncaring. Any healthcare system that is unable or unwilling to do what is needed in the way of funding, while cutting out costs (like insurance company profits) from waste, fraud, frivolous litigation, and overall poor management will fail. If a car company fails, nobody says it's because its impossible to make cars. 

[¿spoom]

BMI is a sham since it has no bearing on actual fat content of the body and no relative worth as a standard. So like everything lately with insurance they stack the deck and charge you on a mostly worthless measurement. The fact that McCain torpedoed the removal of the health care has cost us dearly. When I was training my bmi by standard measures was way off the scale but by measurements of body fat I was at 18 percent body fat.

Its a formula thats all its, one that was made for those looking to lose weight also. No standard formula can encompass all the variations of the human body since there are so many factors to consider. The insurance companies use it as the predictor of illness and cost when it has little bearing on either given hereditary factors and that sometimes to skinny is worse than over weight.

There is a another problem for small businesses since Obamacare changed the laws if you have under a certain number of employees you cannot receive a discount or get group insurance for you and your employees. Putting small businesses into the most expensive tier of insurance along with most of their workers.

Obama care is basically worthless, since the coverage is not good the premiums high and the deductibles climb every year. If you pay 2500.00 a month have a deductible of 10k and a sliding scale deductible on top of that and are healthy I wonder when if every insurance will pay for anything related to health. When you are out 30,000.00 a year in medical/insurance costs without a problem or illness.

I hear the problem will be non existent in California for the illegals though since they are extending health care to them for free.

Agreed on the BMI, we could probably make a better case for basing it on whether or not you ride a MC, take Amtrack or cross-country busses frequently, work 3rd shift, are sarcastic in bars, ete.

[¿spoom]

Our wait times can be long for something like a new knee or hip. Even an MRI for an elective surgery can be 6 months or more. My son badly dislocated his shoulder requiring surgery, the MRI was going to be 6 months. We asked the surgeon if the MRI was really necessary, he said he could just go old school and see what’s exactly wrong when he gets in there...so that’s what he did. He had a pretty good idea what was going to be needed. The surgery was done a few weeks later. Some provinces have opened up private MRIs that you can pay for. Mine hasn’t.

Waits at the ER can be bad, but if it’s serious, you get in quickly. Too often you have people going to the ER for a fever or a flu, causing more delays than necessary. I’d love a $50 (or whatever) per visit fee at the least to make people think about maybe going to their family doctor the next day to free up the ERs.

We’ll never go broke to pay for a serious condition (aside from our taxes...which, by the sounds of things, are still less than your premiums), but you may wait a year for that shiny new hip.

I'm sure a fee would help, or simply some better brains & spines in those who run it. Good luck, though, here in the US if you started a $50 fee, the far left would be screaming that it was wasn't fair to the poorest because $50 meant more to them than to a rich person. They's demand that the poor get $50 vouchers and the fee be $500 for the evil wealthy. Then Bernie Sanders would get elected after promising any "poor" showing up at the ER be GIVEN $50.
Nurse practitioners in a clinic attached to a hospital (or gas station, or Tim Horton's) can do much of the day to day triage and checking of BP, temp, bumps & bruises and more, but between Dr. egos, the easy-money branch of the legal profession, cost/profit decisions etc. it's gonna be a struggle for turf. Then there's the matter of literally keeping track of problem people and throwing their azzes back out at the door when they show up at the ER with a simple owe. If someone can wait 6mo. for a hip, than somebody with a runny nose can be bounced from an ER.
I've waited years for my knees, for many reasons, but I'd be glad to go in for my heart tomorrow if needed.    

[Jess from VA]

Please don't hold up the UK NHS as a shining example of Govt run health care.

And then they do this?  https://blackchristiannews.com/2018/09/the-devil-is-a-lie-81-year-old-man-has-gender-reassignment-surgery-to-become-a-woman/